BSG Episode - 10/10/06 (Spoilers!) by derangedmilk

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

BSG Episode - 10/10/06 (Spoilers!)

POSTED BY: DERANGEDMILK
UPDATED: Monday, November 13, 2006 19:00
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VIEWED: 3585
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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:01 PM

DERANGEDMILK

Lets here it! Reactions to tonight's ep...GO!
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:05 PM

FREEBAGEL

Wait....so they're essentially pardoning Helo? That's retarded. He just sabatoged their effort to completely end the threat to their survival and they're just gonna forget about it? Hey now that they know Baltar is leading the cylons towards Earth maybe when they reunite with him they can give him a hug, as they certainly don't seem to care about people betraying the human race.

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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:13 PM

JPSTARGAZER

Well, I don't find the pardon hard to believe. Only Adama and Rosalyn (maybe Apollo) know that it was "sabotage" and Helo. And we all knew that Adama was against the plan the whole time. So basically, Adama kept his first officer and got his way...and that surprises people?

I don't like the fact that Apollo went from "standing up for what I believe in" and "questioning my role in this place after my near-death experience" to "kill all Cylons!!!" I just don't see the transition. Isn't Dualla supposed to be keeping him in check?

I do like the development of the Helo/Athena relationship though. And does Deanna think Baltar loves her or that he was talking about God? I just don't know...

"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono

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Friday, November 10, 2006 7:59 PM

FREEBAGEL

I guess it's good to know that when you order your XO to push that button, that button he really doesn't want to push but is ordered to push that when push comes to shove not only will he NOT push the button, but he'll punch the next guy in line to make sure he can't push it either.

Yeah, that's what you want from your military officers

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Friday, November 10, 2006 9:36 PM

BSCPANTHERFAN

Here's a question: what did the ear torture thing do to Baltar? Was it the mechanical version of the worm from the Star Trek movies? Can he hear out of that ear now? I don't normally creep out, but eeewwwww!

Oh well, at least they didn't cut it off.

(Also, isn't this 11/10/06?)

So who is he?
He's my husband.
Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 2:06 AM

ZEPH

Okay, not my personal revelation here, but as she doesn't post here, I'm posting for her. And, just to be safe, I'll spoilerize it:

Select to view spoiler:

Virus from Earth will destroy the Cylon race.

There is every chance said virus still exists on Earth -- no reason it wouldn't, really.

Cylons do, in fact reach earth.

Cylons contract virus and die. H.G. Wells' "War of the Worlds," anyone...?

http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:18 AM

DERANGEDMILK

Good catch Zeph. I agree that this definitely isn't the last we'll see of the virus.

Also, does next week's episode look kind-of unneccesary to anyone else but me? They've still got a lot of unresolved issues going on with the crew and fleet but instead they're going to introduce a new character and new problem. I dunno, guess I'm just a little wary of what they're gonna do with this Bulldog guy...

Sorry about putting the wrong month everyone!
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 7:42 AM

DIETCOKE

I didn't get why there was even a question as to why not eliminate the Cylons. They are man made machines gone way bad and tried to destroy the human race. They are still man-made machines. Just because one model is defective and wants to side with the humans doesn't mean that they all must be good.

For me, I just do not see it as genocide because they are not people, they are man-made machines that have malfunctioned. If they were human or an organic alien I would feel very differently, but they are not. Man made them, man can destroy them.

Of course if they did destroy them the show would be over and I don't want that to happen.

I do want Helo(sp?)to be dishonorably discharged because he underminded the military and a presidental order. The message must be sent to the rest of the fleet that that type of behavior is unacceptable.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:35 PM

ZEPH

So, dietcoke, just to play devil's advocate (Cylon's advocate...?), then, if there were, say, some human clones out there (man-made, but in every way human, by definition), you'd be fine with killing them, even though they're people...?

Not saying I completely disagree with you regarding wiping them out, I just happen to see it from a different viewpoint.

Human, alien, man-made human-like machines, whatever, self-defense is one of what most honest philosophers consider an inalienable right. Therefore, if I am attacked with deadly force, I have the moral right to respond with deadly force, dong ma? If somebody is trying to kill you, you try to kill them right back.

Therefore, if someone is trying to commit genocide against me and mine, I would think that the moral right of self-defense would apply, and I would be well within what is right and good to respond with genocide my ownself...

http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:10 PM

DIETCOKE

Good point. Not sure I can argue with you. But for me, Cylons are man-made machines. Look, feel, sound like humans but not so much. I don't have a moral issue about hitting the power switch on a machine that has gone wrong.

They tried to kill us, let's try to kill them right back.

Always good stuff to ponder and talk about!

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:57 AM

CYBERSNARK

I don't think we've seen the end of this arc: Helo knows he did something wrong, and he just demonstrated his moral fibre. Wouldn't surprise me to see him turn himself in. Or get a visit from Adama, saying that he knows what Helo did and knowingly took the bullet for him this time, only because he agrees with Helo's argument. If Helo ever crosses that line again, however, Adama will shoot him himself (and, because it's Adama, we know he would).

It wasn't about who/what the Cylons are. It's about who/what we are. You've gotta consider that there comes a point when the human race just ceases to be worth saving.

Besides, we know from Sharon that there is (or at least was) a Cylon resistance. Sharon and Caprica-Six were at least making the attempt to change them from within.

Plus there's always the chance that the viral genocide would've backfired spectacularly, leaving the Cylons alive but royally pissed off. In fact, this outcome might turn out in Galactica's favour; Helo just risked his career to save the Cylons' life.

If nothing else, the books are balanced now: the Cylons could've killed them all on New Caprica, but they didn't. Helo just (unwittingly) repaid that Karmic debt.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:05 AM

DIETCOKE

It will be way out of character if Adamas lets Helo get a way with this. Adamas plays by the rules whether he likes them or not. He didn't want Baltar elected but he wouldn't let the president steal the election back from him.

I still see the cylons as malfuncting machines that need to have the power turned off. Of course I don't really because then the show would be over. ;-)

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:47 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

I can not fracking believe what Helo did. Stupid toaster lover! I can not believe that Adama is going to let him get away with it. I figured that the virus would be transferred but since the Cylons have Hera an antidote would have been found. I did not expect that the Cylons would be wiped out if they caught the virus but I wanted to see them suffer.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 11:48 AM

JOLLY

So am I the only one that can't stand that damn music they play when the action is with Baltar on the Cylon base ship?

I find my patience with the show is wearing thin. Part of the problem, methinks, is that they are juggling too many characters. The (unintentional?) effect is that I just sort of forget about some of the characters. Not a good thing, when the story line is already fairly complicated. It also tends to diffuse tensions created in previous episodes without using the story itself to resolve them.

I'm also annoyed with the obliqueness of Cylon motivations. It's enough to make human motives complex (but understandable). Unfortunately, the cylons are ceasing to be menacing and are on the verge of becoming somewhat silly. I actually think that spending increasing amounts of time with the cylons (instead of focusing on developments with the fleet) is detrimental to the show, since it only emphasizes the fuzziness of cylon motivations.

Anyhow, this episode lacked any real punch, simply because it was clear that even if the attempt at genocide had not been thwarted from within, it would not be successful.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:17 PM

DIETCOKE

I find the whole Baltar/6 story taking up way too much time. I want to get back to the core characters. "Lost" made the same mistake and I may not be able to stick with it if they don't get away from the "others" story line and back to the main characters that made me like it in season one.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 12:29 PM

GRIZWALD

Me, I love the contemplative piano solo that plays whenever we see the base star where Baltar is being held.

Oh, and I was braced for some serious torture of Baltar, but I think he got off way easy. Nobody scooped out HIS eyeball and showed it too him, now did they?

(I am very mad at Helo.)

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:07 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by FreeBaGeL:

Wait....so they're essentially pardoning Helo? That's retarded. He just sabatoged their effort to completely end the threat to their survival...

No, he just sabotaged their effort to completely end the series in one foul swoop. :) No Cylons, no BSG.

While we're at it, how come the technologically advanced Cylons cannot prevent a few dying mates from "downloading" to the Resurrection ship?

(btw, everything is always "downloading" with these TV folks; just as there are two sides to a Schwartz, likewise there's "downloading" and "uploading"; wish someone would clue them in).

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, November 13, 2006 2:59 AM

ZEPH

Personally, I think the recent focus on the Cylon specific story is to bring back up the earlier debate on whether Cylons are "people" in some sense. They are clearly not human, but are they, in fact, a new form of life, something beyond machines, and therefore deserving of some sort of rights...?

I think they were doing a much better job of this sort of thing with the captured Cylons -- particularly the two instances where they tortured prisoners. Another view on some things going on in real life, methinks.

Remember in our own history, one of the first things propaganda is always used for is to de-humanize the enemy.

Why, even at some future point, there could be some war between some parts of the society that runs things and another part that wants to be left alone. They might even convince some folks that this enemy (that might wear, I dunno, brown-ish colored coats) are "a bunch of inbred, cowardly pisspots shoulda been killed off a every world spinnin'."

They might even think the opposition is something less than human, like maybe a bunch of dogs, that should be put down.

Again, I'm not trying to rally a group for the Ethical Treatment of Cylons, I would probably vote to exterminate 'em if I was in the Colonial's boots, just trying to bring a bit of perspective, is all...

http://www.myspace.com/captainzeph

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Monday, November 13, 2006 11:34 AM

KINGJAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by FreeBaGeL:
I guess it's good to know that when you order your XO to push that button, that button he really doesn't want to push but is ordered to push that when push comes to shove not only will he NOT push the button, but he'll punch the next guy in line to make sure he can't push it either.

Yeah, that's what you want from your military officers

------------------------------------

Anyone see the movie Crimson tide? different situation I know but sometimes disobeying orders from your superiors can be the right thing to do. Genocide should only have been considered as a last resort and they still had the prisoners/beacon which they could use in the same way if the cylons caught up with them, in that situation it is them or us. You don't wipe up an entire race just because they might one day do the same to you. I think Helo was right in saying it is a crime against humanity even if the cylons aren't human, it would still have been a human doing the deed and who else stands as the standard for humanity if not those that remain?

dietcoke wrote:
I didn't get why there was even a question as to why not eliminate the Cylons. They are man made machines gone way bad and tried to destroy the human race. They are still man-made machines. Just because one model is defective and wants to side with the humans doesn't mean that they all must be good.

-----------------------------

The cylons all made a choice when listening to the resurrected Boomer & caprica 6. Whilst they eventually reneged against their descision to live together with humans on new caprica they still made a choice and tried to find a better way. That elevates the cylons beyond mere machines, still not human, but once machines break their programming they cease to be what they were. I say this because all the way through series 2 I was praying that Sharon, now athena, would not be killed because shes a cylon and I was close to being sick when they tried to rape her. I realised then that my idea of what a cylon is was wrong and had evolved during my appreciation of the show.

------------------
I could get naked?
------------------

any society that gives up a little liberty for a little security, deserves neither and loses both - Ben Franklin U.S

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Monday, November 13, 2006 7:00 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by KingJayne:
Genocide should only have been considered as a last resort and they still had the prisoners/beacon which they could use in the same way if the cylons caught up with them, in that situation it is them or us. You don't wipe up an entire race just because they might one day do the same to you.

Except that it isn't that the Cylons "might" wipe out the human race, they already have.
The human race has been reduced from 20 Billion to 40 Thousand. When the remnants ran, the Cylons pursued, invaded and subjugated them. And now they know that the Cylons are also trying to find Earth.

At the very least, Hielo needs to leave the service if he's at odds with the judgement of his Commander and President. He certainly shoudn't be XO.

IMO, He ought to be courtmartialed and executed.

They can let Athena live, though...

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