Quotes and references in Firefly by laoshi

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Quotes and references in Firefly

POSTED BY: LAOSHI
UPDATED: Thursday, November 16, 2006 06:10
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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:17 AM

Carrying on from a discussion in the I'm so proud of myself thread. What references and quotes are there in Firefly and Serenity. i just noticed the lovely Leiasky had a Shepherd Book quote as her tag. "A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned." This sounds an awful lot like the American writer and critic Ambrose Bierce. Does anyone know if it was him?

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 12:49 AM

RCAT

I wish I knew the answer but I've always loved that quote ("...notably ungoverned") and also thought it seemed terribly familiar. Ambrose Bierce seems right for it or perhaps Mark Twain. Good question, I hope someone knows the answer.

"I hate quotations"
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:48 AM

EVILBUNGLE

only reference I can find is from Book.

Vote Day 1st December 2006 http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
Together we will triumph.

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:04 AM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

What about that "Copper for a kiss" thing that River says when she wakes up in Ariel?
I always kinda thought it was some kind of reference to something, I just didn't know what.

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Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:22 PM

TEACHDAIRE

Well, I googled "Copper for a kiss" and all I get are links to assorted FF sites and blogs and stuff like that.

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:10 PM

LAOSHI

I'm pretty sure Copper for a Kiss was something English prostitutes used to say. i don't have a specific reference to back it up but it does have that Dickensian feel to it

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:12 PM

TEACHDAIRE

That's a good point.

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:16 PM

LAOSHI

Oh Hello, sorry I'm not used to actual people being logged in at the same time as me. It's the whole China thing. Its 8.15 Wed morning here

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:17 PM

TEACHDAIRE

It's Just after quarter past midnight for me.

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:21 PM

LAOSHI

You know Shan Yu the guy in War stories. Simon calls his work sadistic crap legitimised by florid prose. Is he real or something the writers just made up?

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:24 PM

TEACHDAIRE

I think he's made up. Beyond the throw away beatles line in the pilot, the only other real reference that I can find is the whole albatross thing in the movie.

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:59 PM

LAOSHI

Well there are all the planets being named after women Hera and Persephone are greeks goddesses as anyone who watches Hercules the legendary journies will tell you. Side note Hercules is theRoman version of his name the greek is Heracles. His mother named him after Hera in an attempt to appease Hera so she wouldn't try and wreck his life. That didn't work. Persephone is the goddess of the harvest carrried away to the underworld and married to hades he lets here come back up for half of the year its the explanation for summer and winter. While she is with him its winter when shes up top with her mother Demeter its Summer. I'm sure there was a thread on Shakespearian references in Firefly Ariel is a spirit and also Prospero's daughter in the Tempest. oh and there's a song reference in Jaynestown. You fought the law? is a quote from a Clash song apparently.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:04 PM

STROKINGMYPETER

hey what the hell? that is not a throwaway line in the pilot!!! it's significant! it's part of joss's creation and if it's important enough for him to put it in then it has to mean something! by the way i don't mean this to come across as in any way confrontational. i'm really just screwing around on here.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:14 PM

TEACHDAIRE

I don't think that fighting the law line is a nod to The Clash. The full line from the song is "I fought the law and the law won".

And as for the planetary naming conventions, I had actually not noticed that, as it still follows our current conventions where planets are named after gods and godesses from mythology.

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Not sure who "notably ungoverned" belongs to, but it's my favorite and most memorable quote from the whole BD show..... hence the Sig

Are you Chinese Laoshi? If you are, your English is very impressive. Even if you aren't... it's still pretty impressive. There's a lot of people online that type like they dropped out of school after the second grade.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:50 AM

SPACEANJL

For some reason 'Copper for a kiss' put me in mind of Judas and the thirty pieces of silver, what with the betrayal...

My favourite stuff are Jayne's t-shirt slogans (and what's in the t-shirt, of course

) All relevant when translated.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:29 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Care to elaborate SpaceAnJL? Or is this a secret?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:35 AM

SPACEANJL

It's somewhere on the translations site - the translation of the one shirt is 'troublemaker', anopther one is 'soldier' and the one in 'Ariel' is 'paralysed (by fear)'. But Jayne as a name can mean 'rogue' or 'strength', pronounced differently. I think. Can't work out the Mandarin myself - dumb anglo

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:38 AM

TEACHDAIRE

Of course, my fav Jayne shirt translates to "Dumb as a wooden Chicken".

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For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

isn't/ wasn't a copper a kind of English penny?

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:22 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
isn't/ wasn't a copper a kind of English penny?

It could be slang for an English (or American) penny. There has never been a coin officially named that, to my knowledge.

"Copper for a kiss" has been discussed in another thread, some time back. I don't think anyone found a historical usage, but it's quite British-sounding and could be intended to evoke a 19th-century prostitute's come-on (as was suggested above).

Re: Shan Yu -- I have not yet found any reference to a specific historical character by that name. However, "shanyu" was the title of the emperor of a particular kingdom in ancient China. (Of course, we can assume that he will live sometime in the next 500 years!)

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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 2:52 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Quote:
Shakespearian references in Firefly Ariel is a spirit and also Prospero's daughter in the Tempest.

Actually, in the Tempest, Prospero's daughter was named Miranda, so that's the reference there.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:04 PM

LAOSHI

Sorry forehead slapping going on to be honest i haven't read the Tempest since I was 16. Was Ariel a character in it at all? Some kind of Sprite maybe. Please tell me its not just the name of the little mermaid.

Alliance n. In international politics, the union of two thieves who have their hands so deeply inserted in each other's pocket that they cannot separately plunder a third. -Ambrose Bierce

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Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:06 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Actually, yes. Ariel was the sprite helper guy in the Tempest, kinda like Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream. But yeah, I think it was a male character too.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:46 AM

BROWNCOAT555

I suspect that "Shan Yu" is a thinly-veiled reference to Sun Tzu, the guy who wrote "The Art of War".

While the quotes may not be his directly, I think they somewhat resemble Tzu's way of thinking.

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:52 AM

NICODEMUS

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
For some reason 'Copper for a kiss' put me in mind of Judas and the thirty pieces of silver, what with the betrayal...

Nah, the Judas reference Joss makes is Mr Universe turning to the operative and asking for his "thirty coin".

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(Thx to Desktop Hippie for the banner)
If you find yourself getting too worked up about stuff that isn't real (RP Threads etc), then go outside, breathe in some fresh air and try feeding the ducks. (Because ducks don't care about your politics, religion, skin colour, choice of music or even your haircut. They like everyone, provided you bring them food.)

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:10 AM

SPACEANJL

Could be more than one reference, Nico. Just sayin', is all...

I like the sight-gags. Anyone else notice the Weyland Yutani logos?

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Thursday, November 16, 2006 6:10 AM

CYBERSNARK

Technically, Ariel was an angel (as evidenced by the name ending in "-el"), who appeared to have been enslaved by Prospero.

(I had a whole backstory for him worked out when I studied the play.)

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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