Evidence Jubal Early Survived! by Fastmover

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Evidence Jubal Early Survived!

POSTED BY: FASTMOVER
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 14:16
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Monday, November 20, 2006 8:53 PM

Hello all, and this is my first post. I've read through a lot of the threads here, and one debate that has been raised is the fate of Jubal Early. I have some insights on that I would like to share.

In the OIS commentary Joss mentions that Early's character was inspired heavily by Boba Fett from Star Wars. As most of you know, Fett fell into the Pit of the Sarlacc in Return of the Jedi, and was presumed killed. Well, for those of you who are also into the Star Wars expanded universe, Fett was actually able to climb out of the pit, and even acquired another ship called Slave II because the other one was impounded by the Rebels.

I'm thinking this could be hint that Early, despite the overwhelming odds against him, somehow survived either by calling his ship back to him or calling for help. Remember that we do not actually see him die, and he seems quite jovial in the end for someone who is about to suffocate in the coldness of space, no matter how whacked he is.

Josh Gray

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Monday, November 20, 2006 9:05 PM

EVAN

I think that Boba Fett allusion is kinda neat. But i also have by reasons for believing Jubal survived.
Isn't the classic space drifter thing to do use a remote and pull your ship back to you?
Or maybe it will be like The hitchhikers Guide To the Galaxy and he will be picked up by a ship at the exact moment he was about to die.
Anyway it happens: Jubal didn't die.

Are you having a laugh?

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Monday, November 20, 2006 9:06 PM

DAVESHAYNE

I don't think you have to go all of the way over to the Star Wars EU to find evidence of Jubel's survival. The fact that he is alive at the end of OIS is good enough evidence. It's a convention of the space opera genre that the villain always comes back unless you see him die. And sometimes even if you do see him die. Plus he's just too wicked awesome a character to not bring back - and we know how Joss feels about awesome.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Monday, November 20, 2006 9:10 PM

FASTMOVER

Good points, and I really hope Rha's Al Ghul in Batman begin survived because we didn't see him die... Anyways, I think that someone like Jubal Early who is so sophisticated and obsessed with his equipment would definitely have some way of calling his ship back to him. I just don't see him risking something that stupid. Sadly we will never get to see his reprisal, especially because he was my favorite villain! :) Does that seem right to you?

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:39 AM

ZZETTA13

Fastmover, first of all welcome to the board.

Secondly, Jubal Early is alive and well in many a fanfic on the site. If you like the character check out some of the fanfic. You'll find some talented writtings there.

Z

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:24 AM

CAUSAL

"I modelled the character on Boba Fett" isn't the same as "The character is identical to Boba Fett." I, for one, have no problem letting the Blue Hand men, Book, Wash, and Jubal stay good and dead. It makes the world more real to me, in some ways that people die--peope we like--and they stay dead. That's what happens in real life, after all (and before the objections come, yes I know FF isn't real life). It would make FF more cartoon-y and less gritty to have people constantly coming back to life.

On a semi-related note, why do you think that it is that fans feel that they have the right to demand that the creator do certain things with their own work (e.g. the petition not to kill Wash)?

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:46 AM

TPAGE

I have another reason that Jubal Early is still alive. Joss likes bringing back characters. Hell in 14 episodes we saw almost all of the 'villains' more than once. YoSafBrig, Niska, Badger (well he was less villainy), etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Casual:
On a semi-related note, why do you think that it is that fans feel that they have the right to demand that the creator do certain things with their own work (e.g. the petition not to kill Wash)?

As for that, people like to have control (and I don't necessarily mean in a bad way). But we cannot have it in reality so many try it in fiction. Truth is we have no control but the choices we make.

And if someday on some little piss-ant moon/My hand is a little too slow, or my aim a little bit off/At least I’ll go down fighting, not lying abed surrounded by quacks - "Sir Warrick" by Geezer

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:57 AM

MRBEN

I'm sure I read/saw somewhere that there is a reflection of Jubal's ship in his visor when we see him at the end of the episode, indicating that it was coming to pick him up.....

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 5:14 AM

EVILBUNGLE

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
[BOn a semi-related note, why do you think that it is that fans feel that they have the right to demand that the creator do certain things with their own work (e.g. the petition not to kill Wash)?

if I can start with a shock admission, I am not an award winning writer and my screenplays are nonexistant, but to speak without any authority at all, I would imagine it would be a compliment of sorts, if no one cared about your work they wouldn't try, I have written a book and as I am the only person to have read it I can do what I like. when people buy into it you are saying, here is my work for you to enjoy, you can not then turn around and say don't enjoy it too much!

ofcause whatever the fans say he has the right to ignore them, he will always be incontrol but the fans deserve a voice too, no fans = no point story telling.

Vote Day 1st December 2006 http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
Together we will triumph.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:11 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Fastmover:
I really hope Rha's Al Ghul in Batman begin survived because we didn't see him die...

He's Ra's Al Ghul. His whole gimmick is that he's immortal (and has been around since before Biblical times --only person older is Vandal Savage [a Neanderthal who was around before humans evolved]). Talia (or someone) will just gather up his remains and head for the nearest Lazarus Pit.

In fact Talia would make a convenient source of sexual tension in the next movie, since Katie is not involved and Batman, like Bond, needs a babe in every movie. At least the Talia/Bruce sparkage would be canonical (and save us from having to introduce Catwoman until the third movie).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:15 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by TPage:
I have another reason that Jubal Early is still alive. Joss likes bringing back characters. Hell in 14 episodes we saw almost all of the 'villains' more than once. YoSafBrig, Niska, Badger (well he was less villainy), etc.

Yes, but none of them were dead characters. I'll grant you that we don't actually see Jubal die, so there is some chance that he survived. But I just don't see bringing back the dead ones--not on a show like FF. Buffy maybe (which is one of the many reasons I'm not a fan), but that's a different sort of a world.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:21 AM

GOHM

One of the components of Early's status is whether or not River would have allowed him to live.

River had enough technical knowledge - either from Early's mind or her own brilliance - to board his ship, link the communications of both ships, and finally to send Early's ship away. And, given how meticulous Early seemed, it'd be surprising if access to his ship and its functions were not protected by codes and/or passwords. She'd have known about a retrieval protocol or remote control system and could've disabled them.

So...why would River let him live?

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:14 AM

SHROUDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quote:
Originally posted by TPage:
I have another reason that Jubal Early is still alive. Joss likes bringing back characters. Hell in 14 episodes we saw almost all of the 'villains' more than once. YoSafBrig, Niska, Badger (well he was less villainy), etc.

Yes, but none of them were dead characters. I'll grant you that we don't actually see Jubal die, so there is some chance that he survived. But I just don't see bringing back the dead ones--not on a show like FF. Buffy maybe (which is one of the many reasons I'm not a fan), but that's a different sort of a world.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

Do I really need to mention Dobson in the comic series?

---------------------------------------

The only animals I'm not comfortable with are parrots, but I'm learning as I go. I'm getting better and better at 'em. I really am. - Steve Irwin, our Honorary BDH

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:17 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
[BI, for one, have no problem letting the Blue Hand men, Book, Wash, and Jubal stay good and dead. It makes the world more real to me, in some ways that people die--peope we like--and they stay dead.

Unlike the others you mention Jubel was only left for dead. Big difference. If Dobson can come back from having his face shot off Jubel can survive floating in space for a spell.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:05 AM

CLARK417

Quote:
Originally posted by mrben:
I'm sure I read/saw somewhere that there is a reflection of Jubal's ship in his visor when we see him at the end of the episode, indicating that it was coming to pick him up.....

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org]

I actually posted a comment on the old official Serenity Movie board about this. I went back and studied DVD and you could see lights reflecting on Jubal's helmet. They looked like they could very well be ship lights to me. A troll quickly dismissed my theory saying that the producers and special effects people were only concerned about wrapping up shooting and weren't concerned with that amount of detail. I see something there when I go back and look. I wonder if anyone else sees it also.

Another theory was that when Jubal says, "Well, here I am," that phrase is actually a code word for his ship's computer to seek him out and come pick him up.

Joss has also been quoted as to saying that Jubal is alive and may return in any sequels that may follow.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/archive/index.php/t-78510.html

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:43 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Shrouded:
Do I really need to mention Dobson in the comic series?

I suppose you do...not a big fan of the comics, myself (yes, I'm aware Joss wrote them; don't care). The sort of bringing back from the dead I'm talking about is unambiguous dying (of the sort that Wash and Book had) versus ambiguous fates (like Early's). Take Dobson: a buddy can survive being shot, even in the head--it's unlikely, but not impossible. On that interpretation, Dobson might not have been dead when they tossed him out the cargo door. Wash, on the other hand, has a 3-inch spike driven through his chest, and is quite clearly portrayed as a dead man and is buried at the end of the film. There's no coming back from that, save magic or cloning. And that just doesn't seem like it would fit in the FF world. I'm not saying Jubal's dead--I'm just saying that I don't think miraculous back-from-the-dead stories are quite fitting for FF. Buffy maybe (which is, again, why I'm not a fan), but not FF.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:13 AM

NBZ

My reason why Jubal Early survived: You see his ship in Trash.

But wait, you say, "Trash came before OiS!"

But not in the original running order, where Heart of Gold and OiS came before Trash.

It was reordered for the DVD release to give closure to the series.

(the order etc is from others, as I arrived very late onto the scene. long after Firefly and Serenity were both available.)

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:17 AM

CAUSAL

Right--because there can only be one of that type of ship in the entire 'verse. Come on, now--that's a pretty weak reason. Is Serenity the only Firefly? Even if he's a rich bounty hunter, I doubt he could afford to have a fully unique ship constructed.

And by that logic, Caprica is part of the 'verse--after all, we see Serenity in the miniseries.

"But no--that was just the folks at Zoic having fun!"

Yup. I rest my case.

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:49 AM

LAMPYRID

Another link to Joss' comment.

http://www.moviesonline.ca/movienews_6536.html

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:38 PM

FASTMOVER

His ship is in Trash? Where? I remember the Fed ships that looked like F-18s, the shuttle, and one ship that went zooming behind the buildings that looked just like an SR-71 Blackbird.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 2:16 PM

NBZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Fastmover:
His ship is in Trash? Where? I remember the Fed ships that looked like F-18s, the shuttle, and one ship that went zooming behind the buildings that looked just like an SR-71 Blackbird.

When Mal and Saffron enter the room with the lassiter in it, Saffron looks out of a window (21 minutes 49 seconds into the episode on the dvd), The camera angle tilts, almost showing Saffron's view out of the window and you see a vessel extremely similar to the one of Jubal early fly right past, from right to left, just after a larger vessel flies from left to right higher up on the screen.

Now if this episode is taken as before OiS as on the DVD, it just validates the point Jubal makes saying he followed Serenity since Ariel.

If you go by order of production, then he is still following them.

The assumptions are:

1. It is Early's ship. It could just be the same model, but the way the camera tilts to almost centre it in the middle of the screen to me means it has some significance.
2. Production order has some semblance to the overall story. OiS may have been produced earlier for budgetary reasons instead of story. (Very little cgi in OiS and most is set on the ship, so could have been cheaper to make, leaving a larger budget for more extravagant episodes...)
3. It is not just zoic running out of ship models they could use.
4. I am not totally crazy.

Even after that, the biggest suggestion that he survived is the words coming out of Joss' mouth that pthers have linked to.

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