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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
Children on Serenity - practicable?
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:34 AM
AGENTROUKA
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 1:32 AM
SUPERFLUOUS
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:25 AM
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:26 AM
KANEMAN
Quote:Originally posted by Superfluous: I think if the season were to continue (and we ignored the unfortunate events that occurred in the ‘Serenity’ movie), the prospect of a child or baby on the ship would have been inevitable. After all, it was an adult show; and regardless of all the OH&S restraints on the ship, it would have added a new dimension to the series: Parenthood. I could just imagine it… ‘Five men, three women, a crazy girl and a baby’. We could ask Tom Selleck to guest star. In addition it had already been done before on ‘Angel’ anyway with Connor (and Angel wasn’t exactly my first candidate for a father). What ‘really’ would have been fun was if Jayne somehow got a whore pregnant and was left with the bastard (I’m not being mean with the language - its in the dictionary...really). That would have been a match made in heaven. (Back to my point) True, it’s not exactly the greatest environment to raise a child in, but who are we to judge. Even in today’s modern times, people chose to bear and raise children through war, starvation and other monstrosities against humanity. As horrible and unimaginable the true world can be, there is never really an adequate time to have children. And if Mal had allowed it, events that followed would have been interesting (for the viewers sake). BTW, Serenity is a cargo ship too, so it’s plausible to assume that the ship is capable of bearing toddlers. But when all's said and done, my opinion is that: it’s not the manner of ‘where’ they were raised that’s truly important… but in the manner ‘how’. __________________________________________________________________
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:54 AM
SPACEANJL
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:32 AM
INDIGOSTARBLASTER
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:51 AM
DONCOAT
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:55 AM
NBZ
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:38 AM
CAUSAL
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: It's a popular theme in fanfiction - not the kind I read, mind you - and it always confounds me, but I don't want to discuss it in the context of just fic, but rather in general. Children on Serenity. I just don't see it. Babies. Toddlers. Primary school children. Pre-teens. Sharp edges, steep drops, constant danger of the ship falling apart, buttons to push, ladders upon stairs upon rail-less catwalks. Not to mention the crime and shooting and enemies and Reavers. Lack of solid education. Everyone on that ship has an essential job that they can't just abandon to baby-watch 24/7, nor are they exactly flowing in cash in a way that would allow them to hire a nanny. Or a replacement for whoever turned parent. Considering all that, WHAT is Zoe thinking?? Did she really grow up on a ship just like Serenity, or is she letting her desire for children cloud her mind to reality (and Wash's very reasonable objections)? I can imagine ships with more settled lifestyles and less dangerous layout, with people who actually have the capacity to raise children - I imagine Zoe grew up on one like that. But Serenity? Just no. Anyone less completely opposed to the idea than me?
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 1:48 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Causal: Seems to me that biology will always trump common sense. You get that biological clock ticking, and baby is on the way, period. I reckon Zoe would have found a way to make it work. I don't know how, but I'm thinking that the animal urge to procreate would have over-ruled the practical concerns of an environment full of sharp, hard things.
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 1:57 PM
NCBROWNCOAT
Quote: What ‘really’ would have been fun was if Jayne somehow got a whore pregnant and was left with the bastard (I’m not being mean with the language - its in the dictionary...really). That would have been a match made in heaven. __________________________________________________________________ ] There's a fic on Live Journal about this. Not just one but 9 of various ages and mothers. Children are inevitable when you have lots of sex going on unless you have foolproof birth contol and that hasn't been invented yet. I just can't imagine Kaylee not having a lot of kids despite being a Mal/Inara shipper. http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
] There's a fic on Live Journal about this. Not just one but 9 of various ages and mothers. Children are inevitable when you have lots of sex going on unless you have foolproof birth contol and that hasn't been invented yet. I just can't imagine Kaylee not having a lot of kids despite being a Mal/Inara shipper. http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:13 PM
LAMBYTOES
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:18 PM
CITIZEN
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 2:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: You mean to say she would have gone against Wash's wishes in making that baby?
Quote:Not that she isn't already a little creepy in that scene (and I say this as someone who loves Zoe madly), all dismissing his logical counter-arguments as if his opinion doesn't matter, but that's an interesting theory you have there! Oy.
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:00 PM
ARCADIA
Quote:Originally posted by Causal: If you honestly think that logical arguments are going to silence the biological urge to procreate you have got another think coming.
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:08 PM
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:23 PM
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:47 PM
GHOULFISH
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:07 PM
KAYLEELOVE
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:07 PM
DREAMWALKER
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:03 PM
PLATONIST
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:40 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Causal: What will Zoe do? Probably just put her foot down, at which point Wash will cave, because he loves her and can't stand not to give her something she wants so badly. But hey--Zoe's no dupe. I wouldn't put deviousness beyond her. She thinks she's right, and that means she's going to get what she wants, one way or another.
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:11 PM
EMBERS
Quote:Originally posted by Superfluous: __________________________________________________________________
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:27 PM
MOJAVE
Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:50 PM
Quote:Originally posted by mojave: Not just possible, but probably a better and more secure childhood than many of us had. No other kids to play with, that's a drawback, but the security of always having a parent or two around, a brilliant MD on call 24/7, and the coolest bunch of aunts and uncles ever.
Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Arcadia: No direspect taken. Maybe it is my age, but I veiw the idea of Zoe -- or anyone, fictional or otherwise -- resorting to tricking their partner into having a baby by "forgetting" birthcontrol as completely and utterly insane. And taking into account Zoe's character, I just don't believe that its an action Zoe would ever take. I'm a little bit thrown that its even been suggested. But then, I think that comes across in my first post. I hope I didn't overly offend you.
Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:16 AM
Monday, April 23, 2007 10:31 AM
ARIANE
Monday, April 23, 2007 11:14 AM
Monday, April 23, 2007 7:59 PM
Monday, April 23, 2007 11:28 PM
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:42 AM
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:05 AM
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:56 AM
Quote:Originally posted by nbz: Simon is a fugitive. It's not a part time thing - nor something that can be waited out. Maybe charges will be dropped but it is not something you can live by. If he has kids (with Kaylee or another), he would still be a fugitive. Will still be on the run. Is there a safer option for him?
Quote:Mal has got this world destroyed thing going on. Shadow, his home was destroyed. Haven, which was portrayed like a second home was also destroyed. Then he saw Miranda. Shipside is safer after all that. :)
Quote: Zoe was born vesselside. She sees the dangers, also the biological clock is ticking. I doubt she would take it well if Mal told her she couldn't.
Quote: IMO there are a few basic assumption that go into this: 1. Landside is safer. 2. there are safer ways to earn money.
Quote: In a flashback in OoG Mal more or less said he wanted to live like a real person, implying there were not too many opportunities landside for him and his type.
Quote: Not that I support Firefly having kids in it. Not at all. Just enjoying the scenic discussion
Quote: Situationwise - People still have kids in conflict zones. Think Gaza strip, chechnia, or other. Iraq? People get shot at. People die. People still have kids. more danger.
Quote:Larger chance of the kid getting all shot up, but I think the crew have their designated bullet catchers. :)
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: Your basic assumptions seems to be that they must (want to) have kids to begin with, leading the life they do.
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:09 AM
REDHEAD
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 2:15 AM
DESKTOPHIPPIE
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by redhead: Children are born in unsafe conditions everywhere. Because the BDS and BDM have our the characters as criminals, I think the criminal lifestyle might be the best analogy to one or more of the characters having children. Look at drug dealers or gang bangers. They often have children. This may not be the best or safest situation but Nature is one heck of a persuader.
Quote: Zoe's "I'm not so afraid of losing something that I'm not afraid of trying to have it" is pretty indicative of how many people feel in those situations.
Quote: The child (or children--which is more likely) is not going to have some comfortable middle class childhood with a bike in the suburbs but that doesn't preclude the parents from having and loving children in poor situations.
Quote:As a note to an earlier post, homeschooled children often do extremely well in college and are often advanced over conventionally educated children. My two sons both started taking college classes in what would have been their 8th grade year. This advanced placement is not unusual.
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 3:59 AM
CERES
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: Anyone have, say, statistics on the child mortality rate in the wild west (and I mean the wild west). Or war regions, or regions of starvation or in families that carry around their children in their criminal get-away cars? Because I think that's generally going to be higher than most parents would like. And even so, the Wild West was a region free for everyone's settling (very relevant native population aside). Serenity is owned by Mal. Any changes that would have to occur to make a baby work, would have to be cleared with Mal first (and that includes just randomly recruiting crew members for baby-sitting/teaching duty) and somehow I don't see him readily switching his life and boat and livelihood around for someone else's kids when he's not even ready to take that step on his own. Changing his life away from crime, I mean.
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:16 AM
Quote: originally posted by AgentRouka Yes, but the question is not whether they are biologically capable or whether some of them might want to. The question is whether it's a responsible choice and practicable long-term without making real changes to their lifestyle.
Quote:Originally posted by AgentRouka: Also, I don't think that it's usually the "drug dealers and gang bangers" who actually raise those kids. That'd be their girlfriends or wives, I suspect.
Quote: originally posted by AgentRouka Those who actually DO go to college, I don't doubt it. I have a friend who was homeschooled much to her advantage. But I'm fairly certain that there are those whose homeschooling works to their disadvantage who end up never seeing the inside of a college and who therefor don't figure into such statistics.
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:49 AM
Quote:Originally posted by redhead: The question I thought I was answering is would people in that situation be likely to have children not whether it is responsible.
Quote: We could get into a whole discussion on whether it is a responsible choice to have children at all even in our easy American world…
Quote: But I have this horrible difficulty separating the characters from real people... and real people, in their situation--- young, healthy and becoming more and more sexually active (you go, Kaylee, girl ;) are likely to have children.
Quote:As a feminist and a observer of actual pot culture, I would have to say, “what makes you think women aren’t drug dealers?”
Quote:And those women are mothers (some excellent mothers and extremely loving), wives, and girlfriends (pretty fine women all around in many cases!) They grow it. They sell it. And sometimes they get arrested and sometimes they get shot. I’m not saying that they are being “responsible” just human and since Zoe (and the rest) seem darn human to me I’m betting the ship would have pitterpatters sooner or later.
Quote: Of course not all homeschoolers go to college but according to a survey of 7500 adults who had been homeschooled, conducted by Dr. Brian Ray of the National Home Education Research Institute, Over 74% of home-educated adults ages 18–24 have taken college-level courses, compared to 46% of the general United States population.
Quote: Yes, Serenity would not be a good place for having children but neither are the border planets and, frankly, nor is much of this beautiful but dangerous world you and I live in. Nonetheless, people constantly choose or accidently have children every day. And as the mother of 3 incredibly wonderful sons, THANK GOODNESS!
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:30 AM
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Tuesday, April 24, 2007 1:49 PM
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 5:29 PM
Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:57 PM
Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:58 AM
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