Imponderable Water Cooler - Fire and Ice by JonnyQuest

marvelous! and so astoundingly accurate! i believe we're all ready for some kitten-poker ^^

now someone's gonna have to explain the kitten/chip exchange rate to me...

Do you like bread?

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:53 PM

Sorry. I didn't pay attention to the rules. I didn't play. I just chatted to Clem.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:17 PM

oh...oh well, i'm sure some kittenish modification of 'all your base are belong to us' can be worked out as a fundamental point of the rules ^^

'All your kitten are belong to Odds' maybe?

he must've been an awful good conversationalist to keep your mind off the game, awwwwful good, good indeed.

(yes it's true, my brain is mush and i actually can't think of anything even vaguely amusing to say...i didn't watch enough buffy to be able to make much referance

)

Do you like bread?

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:27 PM

glad you like the name:)

NV- Hmm I want a guy who respects my opinions, but isn't afraid to have his own. A guy who can fight fair. A guy who doesn't want/need the mushy stuff. A guy who is smart, funny, and strong without being overwhelming. Someone who supports me in what I want and do. :)

Well on that note. I am off for the day. Hang in there all:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:28 PM

I feel ya Odds. I might need to start just to get a Joss fix seein' as there is no Wonder Woman helmed by him.

Absorbing the answers to what women want. More input, need more input.

Why is this place so free and understanding. I'm thinkin' of those who've come and gone and returned later and wonder how this place linked everyone so well.

All this wonder. Am I at my learning peak right now? Maybe I'm just nosy.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:04 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
On reflecting the weeks events I spent the whole trip back from town wondering, "What do women want?"

Start viewing the women you see as individuals instead of a generic gender, and you'll start figuring out what the individual wants.

Quote:
Just curious.
Curiousity licked the cat, (people on the tag board seem to get a bit squirmy over the death and possible consumption of cats)

"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back."

Quote:
Originally posted by Oddsbodskins:
'All your kitten are belong to Odds' maybe?

Hmmmm.....

************************************************
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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:43 PM

See HK, that's an assumption. Women are anything but a generic gender and it is hard for me to communicate my exact question. I guess the question I shoulda asked was, "What the hell do the women I keep getting involved with want?"

I seem to be a magnet for needy selfish women who can't just put themselves aside in order to jump on me.

I'm a giver. I'll give and give until it hurts. And most times that is all I find is hurt. I thought my expectations were too high, but I'm thinkin' they might need to be a bit higher. I need to persue the more assertive, understanding type. I won't lie. I like to be a little submissive to women. It seemed to help a bit more when trying too figure out what the women in my life wanted. I hate getting bitched at. And trust me, I get it even for jumping ahead a few steps when the time permits. If I have extra time I'll clean something so's the hard workin' women in my life don't have to. But some have come to expect me to read minds, do more than my share, and to "Save the day" all Mighty Mouse style and shit. As it was stated in The 40 Year Old Virgin, I've put the p^&&y on a pedastal.

In my world, family, culture, women aren't worshipped but damn near. It seems that contemporary culture has caught up with and torn apart our view of women. Yes our views are old fashioned (or traditional depending on your beliefs), but gorrammit I like it. Its just too bad that the contemporary world has gnawed holes in the fabric of tradition.

So much for holding the female faction of our race in high regard. If this problem persists my kind will die out and what will happen to the reverance of the woman?

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:50 PM

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
So much for holding the female faction of our race in high regard. If this problem persists my kind will die out and what will happen to the reverance of the woman?

How about equality instead?

Rules and voting: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:09 PM

I'm all for equality (ranting 'cause of too much sugar) of all people. But there is reverance in our ways for the bearer of life. I think what most people don't see is the amount of equality, only the jobs and purpose between people. That is what sets people off. We were always taught to never lay your hand on anyone, especially a woman. She is the one to bear life for your people as the earth is the one to sustain life for all. She is your mother, your sister, your auntie, your wife, the one to nurture your dreams and comfort you from your nightmares. She is all worth living and dying for. Her word must be taken seriously as she is the other half of your being as a man. We are not mearely equals. We are one and should treat each other as one.
I might just be expending air as not all people think as I do. There has always been some source of problems with the communication between Natives and non Natives. But that's gotten me in trouble here before and I keep comin' back. Not a difference in opinion, just a difference in communication.
But then again that's coming from someone who's people name things according to their literal translation, not an overly established set of rules and regulations.
(Sorry if I offended anyone, its all outta love)

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
So much for holding the female faction of our race in high regard. If this problem persists my kind will die out and what will happen to the reverance of the woman?

How about equality instead?

ahhh it's overated anyhows

So, I'm gonna change the topic here (because I'm nice that way) but only a little bit, so little a bit that, if I hadn't said anything, I doubt anyone would've even noticed!

So anyway, was sitting myself down on night-shift the other day, stuck up specialing someone, should've had 2-3 people, joys I get three nights of my own company >.< but anyway, I digress. Sitting myself down as I was, i wound up watching a wee one-off drama on ITV (I'm not normally an ITV man, especially their drama's, insipid, dull, moronic insulting piece's of trash) but the paper had thought fairly well of it, so I decided to check it out. It was pretty good, enjoyable like, about three female characters, three generations of the same family, and them coming to terms with each other, and the middle one coming to terms with the teenager being pregnant (and deciding to keep it, much to the middle ones chagrin). And it wasn't half bad, very well-realised characters in the three main roles, well fleshed out, good development, okay it wasn't a masterclass in subtle character development, but it was an hour and a half of ITV drama, and pretty good, considering. My only complaint with it was that the male characters managed to make one-dimensional look like something to aspire to, they were hopelessly underthought, very, very flat, clichéd, and had absolutely no development. Now To my mind, this isn't a bad thing, it's about the main characters after all, they're who I'm interested in seeing develop after all.
The thing that niggled me about these flat male characters though, was actually in the review in the paper (it's the Guardian, for any curious brits, apparently the Independent is the paper for todays intelligent youth, and I do aim to differentiate myself) and the fact that it barely mentioned this, glossed over it in a half a sentence. Whereas the same reviewer will point out a failure to write rounded male characters as a glaring flaw in the end result.
Maybe, just maybe, we should accept that people can only write convincingly rounded characters that they can relate to, and maybe some male writers can't write rounded female characters, and maybe some female writers can't write rounded male characters. Just maybe, this doesn't mean that what they write is shit. Now sure, I'd rather see something in which there are rounded male and female characters, but I don't believe the absence of both means that what I'm watching sucks either.
So my ideal would be just accepting these things for what they are, if the characters are rounded, whether they're male OR female.

But to be honest, I'd settle for even-handedness, if poor female characters in a male-led drama is a flaw, then so, presumably, is poor male characters in a female-led drama.

just a wee thought, while we're (vaguely) on the subject.

Do you like bread?

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:24 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

NV -

that was beautifully said !

Hi Odds ..male or female ..flat charachters make for boring tv..I think.

Bryce
**********

"Oh no, not again." - A bowl of petunias on it's way to certain death.

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
NV - that was beautifully said !

Hi Odds ..male or female ..flat charachters make for boring tv..I think.

Bryce
**********

well, not necessarily, you can't round and develop every single character over the course of a few hours, it's just not gonna happen, you need too much time for the main characters like.

but i suppose my point is just, maybe we should accept that some women can't write men worth a damn, and some men can't write women worth a damn, but it's not a gross failing, so long as they can write someone worth a damn.

you know i think i could've saved myself a lot of time if i'd just said that from the start...

Do you like bread?

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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:07 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
See HK, that's an assumption.

No, it wasn't an assumption. It was an answer to your generic question. Can't get much broader than "What do women want?" (pardon the pun) Your thoughtful posts indicate to me that you seem to know different, so I wasn't trying to acuse you of lumping us all into one category. Continues below...

Quote:
I guess the question I shoulda asked was, "What the hell do the women I keep getting involved with want?"

That's what I was getting at. You need to know the individual before you can answer the question of what they want. (The answer isn't automatic, and it wouldn't be interesting / worth it if it was.) In my mind, if you look only for a potential romance, you stand a good chance of missing a potential relationship. Asking "what they want" seems to me, in itself, rather pointless unless the answer is "you." If you are not their answer, and you try to become the answer, how can anyone involved really be happy?

Quote:
I'm a giver. I'll give and give until it hurts. And most times that is all I find is hurt. I thought my expectations were too high, but I'm thinkin' they might need to be a bit higher. I need to persue the more assertive, understanding type.

I have thoughts on all that you said here, too, but I don't imagine they're something you want to hear; I don't have a very good "bed-side manner" at times.

*hopes that all didn't sound too cold... HK is very, very tired after a long day at woik*

************************************************
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Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:29 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Preferably someone with the same taste in books, movies and TV. Someone with a fun sense of humour. Someone who is willing to have an actual relationship BEFORE we start having sex but who also likes lots of sex. Someone who's okay with the silly, mushy stuff every now and then and someone who's comfortable being with someone who's just a teeny bit crazy.

Also someone who appreciates me, respects me, and is honest with me. Honest is big. Someone who will let me take the lead/set the pace a lot of the time (okay, that might just apply in the bedroom...) likes to have fun and likes to snuggle. A lot. Someone who can think up new things to do but is mostly okay with just going to movies, going for walks, or staying in bed all day.
And if he can cook, clean, save people, and has sexy drummer arms... Well that's all the better, isn't it?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 4:16 AM

Good Morning, everyone!

Well, when I was looking

, I looked for a man who is strong (both physically and mentally), who knows when to take the lead and when to fall back...and most importantly (for me) someone who sees a permanent relationship as a meeting of the minds AND the hearts of two people.

I knew I wanted a relationship where my SO saw me as not just his lover/mother of child/keeper of the home (which I am comfortable being), but more importantly as his best friend. I know I can count on him, and he knows he can count on me. Just as you would expect from Best Friends.

Lust fades...even the most romantic of fires dies down eventually. I knew to have a lasting relationship that there had to be something more than lust that brought us together. That something else was friendship.

Geez. I need more coffee. I sound like Dr Phil.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 4:59 AM

HUGS NV I think your ideas sound lovely and I hate to sound all anti-feminism and all, but I have to deal with the kids who are left behind, left out, ignored and uncared for and I really wish people were able to be home with their kids. I don't care which parent. I just really think one of them needs to be home until the kid is in junior high..

Morning all and I am off to an assembly of boringness:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:59 AM

RUGBUG

Howdy to all who've come before and to all who will come after...

Thursday morning is a hard one. It's the "end-ish" of the week, but doesn't have the anticipation of Friday...and we still have to wear business attire to work (Friday is busines casual). Plus it's a 13 hour day of work and riding and trying to make it home before The Office starts. I don't like Thursdays much.

NVG: I really like what you wrote about who women are to be respected. That was beautiful.

But...

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
I'm a giver. I'll give and give until it hurts. And most times that is all I find is hurt. I thought my expectations were too high, but I'm thinkin' they might need to be a bit higher. I need to persue the more assertive, understanding type. I won't lie. I like to be a little submissive to women. It seemed to help a bit more when trying too figure out what the women in my life wanted. I hate getting bitched at. And trust me, I get it even for jumping ahead a few steps when the time permits. If I have extra time I'll clean something so's the hard workin' women in my life don't have to. But some have come to expect me to read minds, do more than my share, and to "Save the day" all Mighty Mouse style and shit. As it was stated in The 40 Year Old Virgin, I've put the p^&&y on a pedastal.

NVG: just curious. How often do you use the word 'No'? You give the impression of always doing for others and maybe not taking care of yourself as much as you should. Being a giver is a good thing, to an extent. When it delves into the realm of doormats, then it becomes a problem. I don't know where you lie on the giver-doormat spectrum, but it is a delicate balance. I can't speak for other women, but I do know that I don't want to be served or taken care of so much as respected and appreciated.

There's a guy at the barn who is just soooooo nice. He's always doing nice things for me, used to give me extravagant gifts for very little reason (giving him advice, showing him how to longe a horse, etc) until I wouldn't accept them any longer (accepted two and then started refusing them). He sweeps out the crossties when he knows I will be using them. If they're full and he has a spot, he'll move his horse so I can have it. If I go in the arena and he's already riding in there, he'll leave and ride elsewhere so I can have the whole arena and he won't get in my way, etc. It's all very, very nice stuff...and it drives me absolutely bonkers.

I don't want him to do those things, I've asked him to treat me like anyone else. He can't or won't.... Why, I don't know. But it has ruined any friendship we may or may not have had. I can hardly stand to be around him. He's a giver to the point of being a doormat. Things would be so much better if he could just figure out the balance of how to be a generous person without catering to the "needs" of others.

I'm not sure why I brought him up, other than your talk of being a giver reminds me a bit of him. I doubt your 'giving' approaches the degree of this guy, but I thought that the story might illustrate the dangers of giving too much of yourself. Maybe not, though....

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
I can't speak for other women, but I do know that I don't want to be served or taken care of so much as respected and appreciated.

Well said, RugBug. Well said.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:12 AM

DUG

Hmmm. The turkeys are at the edge of the woods eyeing my house. Bearing in mind that all birds are demons maybe I shouldn't have let the pup chase them at the creek last night....

Wait, something just spooked them and they flew right over the house. Meh. My windshield will probably be COVERED in turkey residue.

Need your clock cleaned? home.windstream.net/clockdug

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:17 AM

Rugbug- yeah that bugs me too...it probably isn't meant to, but it kind of implies you can't do it for yourself or you need to be protected from it.

See that's the difference. Respect is standing along side helping and protection is doing it for me.

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
I sense a game of Kitten Poker coming up...

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

yay poker! I did good last night. As good as good can be. I try to play 2 games a night and I won them both last night!! Not that I'm addicted or anything. *twitch*

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:45 AM

hmmm not addicted huh?? I hope you're gambling for pretzels or something:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
hmmm not addicted huh?? I hope you're gambling for pretzels or something:)

$11 a night. That's not gonna kill me. Besides I've already taken out my initial investment and I still have money to play with. Slowly but surely I'll get to the higher levels I hope.

Anyway about the rest of this discussion, for a guy to figure out what a woman wants and not stray too far in any given direction is an amazing feat. Just figuring out what they're trying to say half the time is difficult enough.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:15 AM

That goes for guys too...we could really use translations of the grunts:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
That goes for guys too...we could really use translations of the grunts:)

You guys are stuck on those?! I had no idea. OK so this is a simple problem. The grunts either mean "I'm hungry" or "I'm horny". You can cover all your bases with chocolate syrup and some lovin. Done and done.

Now translate women speak for us.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 7:41 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
That goes for guys too...we could really use translations of the grunts:)

You guys are stuck on those?! I had no idea. OK so this is a simple problem. The grunts either mean "I'm hungry" or "I'm horny". You can cover all your bases with chocolate syrup and some lovin. Done and done.

Now translate women speak for us.

Heh.

Starter women speak:

"I'm fine" means:
[list]1)I really am fine
2)I'm fine, but if you don't stop asking if I'm okay we are going to have a problem
3)I'm upset but don't want to talk about it or
4)You're being an ass and I want you to realize that without me having to tell you[/list]

Meaning is dependent on tone, pitch and facial expression.

That's easy enough, right? I don't see the problem.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:03 AM

I was hopin' to read some good answers this morning and it seems to have been worth the wait. Honestly, I say no alot. Its just lately I've really been kickin' myself in the ass for the earlier no's I wish I would have said. The giving of the doormat that Rugbug mentioned seems to have come to a sliding halt in the last few months. It just feels wierd (and a little selfish) to not give. To not offer the hand. I know the women in my life can do all the things I can do, but their time is so short that when I get the five or ten minutes to cut wood or do some dishes or pick up milk from the store without having to ask it makes me feel important. That leads to what I want.
You are right HK. I don't think much about exactly what it is that I want. Most of my life tends to lead toward what I need rather than what I want. I need to feel neccessary. I need to feel important. I need to be needed. Thats the life of a codependant.
What is it that I want? I want to be loved. I want someone who will cuddle with me because they love me, not because of what I can give or do for them. I want to be with someone I can be with and without. I like having my time just as much as I like the time I spend with others. It would drive me nuts to be with someone who couldn't let me be. I don't go to bars regularly. I never go to strip clubs. I'm never interested in meat markets. I just want to be free to walk where ever my feet will carry me without someone worrying if I'm gonna cheat. I want to trust my partner in the same manner. An equal amount of trust. If there is a problem, I want to be told. Nothing bothers me more than being the odd man out. I hate being the last to know when I am the one in the middle of the issue or will be the one solving the problem. As PR said, honesty is a huge issue with me too. I was beaten as a child for dishonesty. I will not allow that to happen to anyone else. But I also will not abide to being lied to.
The biggest thing for me is the life of atonement I lead. I've sinned. Regardless if everyone believes in sin in the traditional term or in the way I believe, it is still bad. Regardless if my violence can be condoned and justified in the name of good or protection of others, it is still violence. I am a poisioned person trying to stay alive. I have my good days and my shitty days just like everyone else. I hope the woman I end up with can understand that sometimes I do need to be away to heal a little on my own. I do have days when I walk between here and there. I just hope that she can be here when I get back.

So these are my wants and some of my needs. I think for the most part I know what I want but it seems harder and harder to find a woman who can love me in spite of it all.

Kinda funny ain't it. How many abusive relationships do we see daily that are one sided and violent? And why is it the abused can continue to love their abuser in spite of it all? What's more messed up is that once the relationship is over both parties seek the same relationship with different people. And here I sit working to help others and I can't even start a normal relationship.
If that ain't irony then I don't know what is.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:

Heh.

Starter women speak:

"I'm fine" means:
[list]1)I really am fine
2)I'm fine, but if you don't stop asking if I'm okay we are going to have a problem
3)I'm upset but don't want to talk about it or
4)You're being an ass and I want you to realize that without me having to tell you[/list]

Meaning is dependent on tone, pitch and facial expression.

That's easy enough, right? I don't see the problem.

Now i remember why I like my job, when an autist says 'I'm gonna hit you' there's really not much scope for a mistake in the translation.

Finding it easier to deal with my patients then the rest of the world? Moi?

edited To respond to NVG's post huh, interesting sentiment's. I won't ask what you mean by sinned, although it is what jumps out, whatever it is it's enough to matter that much to yourself so, well yeah. I'd recommend looking for a book called 'one fine day in the middle of the night' by Christopher Brookmyre, 'cos there's a character there I think might resonate with you, and I think the way he dealt with his past might interest you. Should be available on amazon, although I don't know if stateside bookshops stock much by scottish authors.

one thing that did interest me though, you want very much to be needed, to be useful, and yet, you also want very much for your partner not to mind whether you are useful or not, just to want you for you. Don't you think your desire to make yourself handy about the place would be a part of you, and perhaps a woman liking that about you doesn't mean she doesn't see anything else, just that she happens to like that part of you along with the rest?

Do you like bread?

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 9:59 AM

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
HUGS NV I think your ideas sound lovely and I hate to sound all anti-feminism and all, but I have to deal with the kids who are left behind, left out, ignored and uncared for and I really wish people were able to be home with their kids. I don't care which parent. I just really think one of them needs to be home until the kid is in junior high..

Feminism is nuts, so being against it is good. Besides, there's nothing wrong with stay-at-home parenting - if I ever did decide to have (adopt) kids, then I'd want at least one of us to be home when the little ones were home, at all times. The problem with that is the people who want to do that don't typically have the money (because money isn't important), and those that do have the money don't seem to want to ("I'm too busy to have a career" or "they'll do just as well with a nanny"). Raising children is the hardest, most important job for those who choose to do so, and people don't take it seriously enough.

Life is all about balance. ::insert meditating emote here::

Rules and voting: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:00 AM

Ya know Odds, I come from a place that puts just as much stock in what you can do as who you are. Some people still marry for usefulness here in the country. Talk about old world thinking. I do want to be loved for more of me rather than what I can do. But the uneasy feeling I get from doing nothing gets to driving me a bit batty from time to time.

As for the other thing, I don't feel the need to be understood by all. There ain't alot of folks who can understand where I've been and what I've done. At the same time there are people who have lead normal lives and I have no clue what kind of lives they have lead. Yet, having my sisters kids in the home really put alot of insight into actually having a family. I'm not afraid to love as much as I used to be, but there are still times where I fear for the ones I love and the terrible things I've seen people do.

I guess its good that I've been working past those fears. It seems easier to take time to totally go away from home. To turn the phone off and ignore the requests of others if only for a short while.

Steps. I guess the steps really work. Now that I actually do stuff away from the family it seems easier to meet new people outside of the professional sector. And the fun factor of things seems to have increased two fold.

Kinda rambling. I'm scripting my MAB (Managing Agressive Behavior) training for our staff and preparing activities for the prevention group we run for the Tribal youth under the thumb of Probation. Lots of talking. Oh boy.

ADD: I hear ya Yinyang. Balance seems to be more and more difficult to maintain as the family dynamic changes. I would like to be a stay at home dad though, even if for only the first few years of a childs life. (Glad we can finally post again).

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:20 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
HUGS NV I think your ideas sound lovely and I hate to sound all anti-feminism and all, but I have to deal with the kids who are left behind, left out, ignored and uncared for and I really wish people were able to be home with their kids. I don't care which parent. I just really think one of them needs to be home until the kid is in junior high..

Feminism is nuts, so being against it is good.

Well, I wouldn't say it's nuts...some forms, yes. Others, not so much. I think the term has evolved somewhat and the extreme definitions are not as widely accepted anymore.

For me, feminism means desiring to be celebrated as the individual I am, not the gender role I was apparently assigned at birth. I shouldn't have to make less money than a man, feel "less than" because I don't want kids, feel like I have to be keeper of the hearth and home, have to be the nuturer, etc. But, that should be okay for women who want that. That's true feminism to me: letting women choose who they want to be and not pinning roles and expectations on them.

And the same should go for men. They should be able to choose who they want to be and not be pigeon-holed into the unfeeling provider role. They want to be a homemaker, more power to 'em.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Feminism is nuts, so being against it is good.

On behalf of feminists everywhere - HEY!!!

Quote:
Besides, there's nothing wrong with stay-at-home parenting - if I ever did decide to have (adopt) kids, then I'd want at least one of us to be home when the little ones were home, at all times. The problem with that is the people who want to do that don't typically have the money (because money isn't important), and those that do have the money don't seem to want to ("I'm too busy to have a career" or "they'll do just as well with a nanny"). Raising children is the hardest, most important job for those who choose to do so, and people don't take it seriously enough.

Life is all about balance. ::insert meditating emote here::

Ooohhhh... you're talking about that kind of feminism... Okay, well, that's different. Feminism today is much more balanced, and much more about balance. For one thing, it doesn't claim that there are no differences between men and women "except anatomical one" - it's a lot more about accepting and even cherishing those differences. It's also gotten over the whole "my mother wasn't allowed to have a career so therefore I HAVE to have one!" thing. It just makes sure that every woman has a choice. Choosing to be a stay at home Mum is just as valid as choosing to become a high flying corporate executive. Goddess knows they're both difficult full time jobs!

But seriously, feminism is a good thing! Don't bash feminism. It has a really important role in society today.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:32 AM

Can I tell the world...

a) I am eating the most wonderful chocolate covered apricots & Tazo Simply Red Tea

b) Was on the phone with Husband and suddenly the line went dead - Husband Nextel'ed a friend who then called me to say we have no power at our house (huge windstorm in MD right now - 50+mph)

c) NV, I've been trying to formulate something to say but can't seem to make it come out right. Every time I write something, it looks pompous, condescending, or downright stupid. So I guess I'll just say this. I don't think you are looking for something sooo out of the ordinary as to be a one in a million relationship. And, I know it will happen for you, when you least expect it. You are a wonderful, strong man who I have gotten to know over the course of the last year. I think a woman who has the qualities you seek will see in you what you know is in you.

EDIT: Has anyone seen RIMG today? Good Lord, I hope he's not in the pokey.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:37 AM

Today we're doing a lesson on excuses. Ho making excuses can lower your self esteem because it assumes/implies you're not as competent as other. The kids watched a short video on the types of excuses. We talked about tips to avoid making them, and had the kids list the 5 excuses they always make that they aren't going to use any more.

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:47 AM

I like that class, MSG.

Can I join in?

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:52 AM

I actually think I was lookin' for squabbles yesterday. I tend to say things from time to time and the thread gets all up in an uproar for a few days. I miss havin' CMH around to have the visceral male opinion. But I guess that's what keeps everyone comin' back. I like the responses I get from everyone. And I love to get some firey verbal exchanges goin' from time to time. Just my nature I guess.

50 MPH huh. Sounds like a typical spring here in the valley. Sometimes we get windstorms that carry dust from over the Pacific. My favorite was a few years back we got red dust from Mongolia. Our sunsets are always great, but those were spectacular.

And so much for the hunger going away. Now I just want a big handful of Sams Choice tropical trail mix.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 10:57 AM

*hands NV a few chocolate covered apricots*

Will these do? They made a world of difference for me.
Though we have the US's largest bay in our backyard, Maryland doesn't get big sustained wind too often. Here's hoping Dora doesn't get blown off the road while I drive home tonight...

And I'm out for the day. Good night, all.

Magda, if you get online in your tonight...

and go meet the new Aussie who signed up - he wrote a blog.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:07 AM

*shuffles in behind Mav*

*steals apricots*

*munches apricots*

*runs away very quickly*

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
Today we're doing a lesson on excuses. Ho making excuses can lower your self esteem because it assumes/implies you're not as competent as other. The kids watched a short video on the types of excuses. We talked about tips to avoid making them, and had the kids list the 5 excuses they always make that they aren't going to use any more.

hehe MsG you need to talk to my friend who just moved. She moved to pursue a relationship with a guy she's been circling since college and now that she's finally there she got asked out on what is seemingly a date. She wants to still go cause afterwards they'll meet up with his friends and show her around the town and she'll get to meet new people. She's saying that since he never called it a date that technically she doesn't know that it is so it's ok. I say that's just an excuse to get what she wants. Also she says that it should be ok cause she's not dating the guy she's after yet. I said that's fine but don't expect him to think you're interested anymore.

Edit: silly pronouns date boy is different than moved for boy. Just for clarification.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:20 PM

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

By both your definitions (RugBug, DTH) then, feminism is becoming equality. Feminism is extreme, suggesting that women should dominate society, while equality celebrates and cherishes all as people, not as stereotypes.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:47 PM

That may be part of the problem. Alot of the women I encounter aren't the healthiest holistically so when they do get "catered" to it must be empowering or enabling to the point that a person like me is no longer capable of being an equal. The "Queen and Drone/Subject" syndrome. A Queen isn't one without her subjects and a queen bee is pretty much dead without her drones.

I'm all for equality. It just takes the efforts of strong willed and equal minded women like yourself to spread the spirit of equality.

And dumbasses like myself need to make damn sure to assert themselves.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:50 PM

Nope, don't agree with you YingYang.

Feminism can be extreme, but that's not what it's about. Sure, it's pro-female, but it's not supposed to be anti-male. At it's very heart, it's about equality. True equality. Each being equal to the other and celebrated for what it is.

Remember, feminism doesn't just cover politics and social change. It feeds into dozens of other disciplines like psychology, sociology and literature. It's about exploring what makes women tick, what makes us different, how we express ourselves and how that in turn effects the world around us. It's not a women good, men bad thing.

Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:08 PM

Hey all...it's that time again. Must go tutor( yes I say that a lot, but I tutor a lot too)

Anyway, feminism I am all for...feminazi( the kind who think women are naturally superior, berate and try to dominate men, and discount/ignore anything a guy says as inferios) I am opposed to.

NV- HUGS!

Have a great rest of the day folks and I will see you tomorrow:)

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:46 PM

JAMESTHEDARK

Feminism: All for it, so long as you don't castrate me 'for the sins of the male gender'. If you're gonna castrate me, it'd better be for my own sins.

Doormat: Not a problem of my own, but then again, I'm a cantankerous bastard, so I've got problems of my own.

Wind: The province I live on is basically a very low speedbump in the middle of a wide, unsheltered bay. There has not been a day, in my memory at least, that the rain or snow has fallen straight down. The wind is always cold, since it blows off of Greenland, and it's always hard, because there ain't a damn thing to stop it.
I miss hills.

Gorramnit, I really need to get away from this Island...

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 1:49 PM

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Nope, don't agree with you YingYang.

Feminism can be extreme, but that's not what it's about. Sure, it's pro-female, but it's not supposed to be anti-male. At it's very heart, it's about equality. True equality. Each being equal to the other and celebrated for what it is.

Remember, feminism doesn't just cover politics and social change. It feeds into dozens of other disciplines like psychology, sociology and literature. It's about exploring what makes women tick, what makes us different, how we express ourselves and how that in turn effects the world around us. It's not a women good, men bad thing.

As far as my last post goes, I should clarify (because I was cramped for time): the word feminism, for me, suggests that women are better than men. I didn't mean for it to sound like a statement of fact.

Equality is a good thing, yes, and the feminism you're describing doesn't seem to me to be true feminism, or feminism the way I think of it - it's just a more specific part of equality, like zoology is a more specific part of biology.

I'm having a hard time explaining myself, but I guess my problem is the word itself, and what it implies for me. The other problem for me is that it only champions women; equality champions people of different ethnicities and socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. Too narrow for my curiosities and heart, I suppose.

Rules and voting: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:01 PM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

Helloes to all y'all. I doing a hit and miss FFF this week and I apologize. The one set of posts I did manage to get out there ended up incomplete. Sigh. Let's just say "ruff week" and forget it, okay?
MsG, if you need excuses, may I offer:
http://www.zompist.com/excuse.html ?

If not, let me just put a couple thoughts out there about some of the other topics recently brought up. (I would have been posting sooner, but it's taken till now to catch up and I'm sure some of my thoughts have fled in the interim.)

Mavs, you at once captivate and confuse. In earlier postings you mentioned that (my paraphrase, so excuse me if I mislead) you almost resented having red hair because it was a guy magnet to the point where you as an individual became a secondary notion (the old demon of the objectification of women). Yet here you state that it was/is defining, as in you as a person are who you are because of your hair, at least in part, to the point where you aren't able (yet?) to give it up. What gives? (Still want to run my fingers through it, even if Husband Jack Nicolson breaks my fingers for trying: "You want the Hair? You can't handle the Hair!!")

Rugbug, of all the important things you said, what sticks with me, what didn't slip away, is the crazy buttery blonde highlights. Then there was something about Feminyms or words that sound like wymyn or something.

PR, DTH et al. Where be these witch descriptions? I would like to know where I stand/fall?

For Odds, Hobbleit et al. Names and mispronunciations. My last cat's name was Lucius (Lew-shuss). Every vet we ever took him to called him Luscious (Lush-us). Luscious would be cute for a trampy kitty-cat. My boy was named after a gladiator!

Princess Cobb sounds like a damsel that Link or Mario should be rescuing.

I also wanted to explain Fire and Ice, too. I was riding into work yesterday and blasting Pat Benatar Greatest Hits and of course Fire and Ice came on. The little lady almost always had powerful lyrics in her songs but sometime you just don't pay them mind as the music goes through your soul. Yesterday I listened. It sounded like a good old-fashioned Imponderable.
"Fire and ice
You come on like a flame
Then you turn a cold shoulder
Fire and ice"

Which brings me to NVG.

Between yesterday and today, you have said so many things, I can't in a few short lines hope to address them all adequately. As far as GND and the date that wasn't, until you guys are officially a couple, there shouldn't be any guilt. Even if she was only and ever only a friend, you have your life and she has hers. If they intersect, great. I would love to see GhostRider with you. But if you're truly my friend and I'm yours, neither one of us should get broken up about seein' it separately.

About giving up on people, I keep thinking about what Joss said and people have used it in their sigs forever after. "I hate people." And yet he loves his family, his cast and crew, his fans. We're people. You know he does. Just by the way he writes. Just for the reason he writes. If he truly hated people, he wouldn't feel the need to write, to enlighten. But he does. Yet don't get me wrong. I believe him 100% when he says he hates people. I do too. Often and vehemently. So, having given up on them, I still have hope too. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but it does to me and I don't care if you get it.

What women want. Not a woman. Don't know. They are different from us. They are different from each other. I haven't walked in your shoes, but I have a great respect for many of the ways of the People. Probably because so much of it is based on respect. So I do not take away any offense from what you say and I don't think too many around FFF would. We know the man and he's a good guy. As for the sins we do, I done things I won't even admit to you fine folk. But if you are giving out of guilt, it's a dead end bro. You'll never be able to give enough to suit yourself. Don't get caught in the trap of doing good deeds to feel better about yourself. Do good because it needs to be done. It's okay to feel like crap after. We probably deserve to. Find your atonement another way. Only the ones you've sinned against can "release" you. If that's not possible, time to move on. And learn from it.

Greeeetings to my beloved LA, YinYang (my beard is red-red...where it's not grey-white...) VeX, Dug and RIMG. And to Magda and Tristan who have left us to find that tropical paradise we'll all inhabit together someday.

Who am I forgetting? Something to do with Poker...Oh, yes. Hell's Kitten. Shouldn't play Kitten Poker without her consent folks. It's just not fittin'.
Fangs and Claws, dahling.

Feminism good when not extreme. Feminism bad when bashing men.

"Well, here I am...Does that seem right to you?"

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:19 PM

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyQuest:
(my beard is red-red...where it's not grey-white...)

Ah, that counts, then (although does that just mean you're grey on top, too, or that your head hair is different from your face hair - 'cause the second is just weird).

Quote:
Princess Cobb sounds like a damsel that Link or Mario should be rescuing.

Did you know that yesterday (February 21) 1986, Nintendo released the original Legend of Zelda? Just thought that was a cool fact.

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Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:25 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
As far as my last post goes, I should clarify (because I was cramped for time): the word feminism, for me, suggests that women are better than men. I didn't mean for it to sound like a statement of fact.

Equality is a good thing, yes, and the feminism you're describing doesn't seem to me to be true feminism, or feminism the way I think of it - it's just a more specific part of equality, like zoology is a more specific part of biology.

I'm having a hard time explaining myself, but I guess my problem is the word itself, and what it implies for me. The other problem for me is that it only champions women; equality champions people of different ethnicities and socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. Too narrow for my curiosities and heart, I suppose.

This is very, very sad....

Has modern times and extremist feminazis perverted the perception of the original purpose behind the "feminist movement"??

Soooo much to say.......

************************************************
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Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:31 PM