Anti FOX comments and subjects by Darksyde

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Anti FOX comments and subjects

POSTED BY: DARKSYDE
UPDATED: Sunday, March 14, 2004 15:05
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VIEWED: 7321
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Friday, March 12, 2004 5:51 AM

Hey there. Just wanted to post a quick note to remind everyone that FOX still has the TV rites to firefly and as such shouldn't be written totaly out of the picture quite yet. Universal secured the "film" rights wich is a bit different. Not happy with how things went down between the show and FOX just don't kick them to the curb for a time yet.

"That's what happens when you call the FEDS!"

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Friday, March 12, 2004 5:57 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Darksyde:
Hey there. Just wanted to post a quick note to remind everyone that FOX still has the TV rites to firefly and as such shouldn't be written totaly out of the picture quite yet. Universal secured the "film" rights wich is a bit different. Not happy with how things went down between the show and FOX just don't kick them to the curb for a time yet.

"That's what happens when you call the FEDS!"

Is that confirmed? The fact that Fox has the TV rights to the show? I understood it that Universal bought the rights to Firefly, which should be the show in all of its forms, not just movie rights.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, March 12, 2004 6:10 AM

SAMURAIX47

If Fox sold all the rights, universal would have been the ones selling the DVDs too... but Fox is the one selling the DVDs... Fox probably retains rights to the existing series, but not necessarily to future series... they may get a residual since they probably own the trademarks, registers and copyrights© to the original series and anything resembling those things.

Jaymes

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Friday, March 12, 2004 6:22 AM

KNIBBLET

If this is true, it is a dark, dark day for both browncoats and the arts.

Rarely have I seen a greater ability to snuff creativity, mishandle talent and generally cock-up a good concept than that of Fox executives.

If there's a way to take a great series and kill it with Niska-like horrors, Fox will find that way and implement it with extreme prejudice.

Of course, if there's a way to insult the viewer's intelligence, make a random channel surfer squirm with discomfort and generally plow the name of humanity through the muck ... Fox will also find that way and implement it with extreme glee.

Shoes, socks and fuzzy pink bunny slippers, I hope you're wrong about who would own any future tv show.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, March 12, 2004 6:25 AM

ASTRIANA

Good point about not burning our bridges with FOX, just in case they do still own the TV rights.

Either way, if we look at it from another perspective, we could be thankful that FOX gave our beloved Firefly any airtime at all... Otherwise, none of us would ever have been exposed to Joss's genius vision.

Besides, all the energy that we spend berating and generally being disgruntled at FOX could be much better expended - by promoting The Movie!

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, March 12, 2004 6:38 AM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by Astriana:

Besides, all the energy that we spend berating and generally being disgruntled at FOX could be much better expended - by promoting The Movie!

I have a lot of energy- I can handle both-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Friday, March 12, 2004 6:46 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by SamuraiX47:
If Fox sold all the rights, universal would have been the ones selling the DVDs too... but Fox is the one selling the DVDs... Fox probably retains rights to the existing series, but not necessarily to future series... they may get a residual since they probably own the trademarks, registers and copyrights© to the original series and anything resembling those things.

Jaymes

I think this far more likely than Fox retaining any TV rights.

I would say it is obvious that Fox distributed the DVDs (& cashed in on them in a big way) because the episodes they air belong to Fox, bought and paid for by them. This does not mean they retain the rights to any future show.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, March 12, 2004 8:27 AM

DAVCO92

Yeah, someday there could be a new tv show titled "Serenity" on Fox or a different network. Fox or no Fox, there is no reason to worry about it now since it's just a possibility for the (far) future. Everyone should just stay optimistic and be as supportive of Joss's creation as possible. We're still flyin' and that's enough.

Burn the land, boil the sea...

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Friday, March 12, 2004 8:34 AM

LASHER99

I think it's entirely probable that Universal bought the rights for future licensing. I would not have thought that Fox would have sold the already produced episodes. What financial benefit would that be to Universal to justify a higher price tag to obtain the past episodes?

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Friday, March 12, 2004 9:06 AM

GHOULMAN

?

... cause we should reward FOX for treating the cult TV talent of the decade like a hack? We should tr not to 'burn bridges' to the FOX wonks becuse they might give us something?

That's like loving the Nazis for providing trains.

Look - the current regime of TV executives and sponsors are working hard to bring you absolute pablim for your little baby like brains so as never to cause you to think, feel, or ever have a revelation that TV can talk to you're heart and mind!

Why do you think there are Reality Shows? Because marketing wonks can put the show together without a writer or even a real production and then just sucker some pretty people to suffer the shows premise.

Is this a sign that TV is no longer willing to tell stories? Have you noticed how movies are telling stories in episodes now? Is TV dead? Well, after this crappy winter of bad 1000 channel cable reruns and an industry unwilling to produce content beyond the lowest mique toast it's marketing assholes can think of... I'll stick to DVDs and cancel the cable conn. I encourage everyone to do the same. Boycott cable. Buy all Joss DVDs. Wait for Joss to move entirely into movies. Hopw that Tim M. and the rest follow him!

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Friday, March 12, 2004 9:19 AM

ASTRIANA

Already don't have cable. Have the DVDs. Don't watch TV much anymore at all. Just saying we could put all this energy into promoting the movie, making it even more wildly successful than it already will be, and getting Serenity back in the sky. Yes, FOX horribly mishandled the series once it was on the air; doesn't mean we shouldn't be at least a little grateful the show ever made it TO the air. If not for the initial handling - before the mishandling - we would never have known this show existed.

"I'm jus' sayin'..." *points to the DVDs* "...Firefly!"

~A~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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Friday, March 12, 2004 9:24 AM

INITIO101

Even if Fox retained the television rights to Firefly, I don't think that's a big issue for the Serenity movie or Universal's rights in the franchise. Presumably, Universal has good attorneys on the case when the movie rights were bought from Fox.

At the very least, the agreement will have established an ongoing license for Universal to to utilize the copyrights and trademarks to Firefly in the movie and any other properties in perpetuity. That's how most licensing agreements work. Although Fox still will retain an interest in the Firefly franchise, I'm sure Universal has negotiated what are called the "derivative" rights in Firefly in order to properly create the film and any other ancillary projects.

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Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM

GHOULMAN

... MY but my rants are spelled badly.

I have devined that TV is dead and all we are watching now are the vapours floating from the carcus. Think about it - can TV produce story? Is TV even willing to produce story? I'm thinkin'... nah.

I grok your meaning Astriana, though I'm far more bitter about the business and far less forgiving of ignorant suits with a license to frell up the creative folks we are actually the fans of... and because I'm a writer and am trying to quit smoking. But I digress...

You think Joss felt badly about Firefly? Howabout when Joss had to go from his mid-season meeting about Angel to his incredible production crew... and tell them they were now without jobs? Again! This isn't fair to anyone, Joss, the crew, the actors, the fans. Even the TV stations themselves are asking why cancel a good show? The signs that TV has crumbled under it's own corporate weight and slack minded brain fodder.

Funny, but I wonder just how many people are like Astriana and have left TV for better things?

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Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Actually, I believe Universal did also aquire the TV rights to "Firefly," though I am not certain.

However, everyone here seems to be confusing FOX, Twentieth Century Fox, and Fox Home Entertainment. Sure, they are all sister companies owned by the same parent company (Rupert Murdoch's NewsCorp), and "Firefly" was involved with them all, but decisions of one branch rarely effect the others.
BtVS and Angel are produced by both Twentieth Century Fox, and Fox Home Entertainment does the DVD, but they have never aired on the FOX network (although BtVS reruns are shown four times on weekdays on the Fox cable channel FX).

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Friday, March 12, 2004 12:19 PM

KARENKAY

hey ghoulman?? i had not heard or read 'grok' in years. i had to go pull out my copy of stranger in a strange land to make sure i was remembering right.
are you a heinlein fan? i just finished the moon is a harsh mistress and thought you know those loonies could be the browncoats ancestors.

TANSTAAFL!!

"Huh."

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Friday, March 12, 2004 12:34 PM

ECMORGAN69

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
If this is true, it is a dark, dark day for both browncoats and the arts.

Rarely have I seen a greater ability to snuff creativity, mishandle talent and generally cock-up a good concept than that of Fox executives.

If there's a way to take a great series and kill it with Niska-like horrors, Fox will find that way and implement it with extreme prejudice.

Of course, if there's a way to insult the viewer's intelligence, make a random channel surfer squirm with discomfort and generally plow the name of humanity through the muck ... Fox will also find that way and implement it with extreme glee.

Shoes, socks and fuzzy pink bunny slippers, I hope you're wrong about who would own any future tv show.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

Damn, I wish I could improve on or add to what you said, but it was just too perfect.

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

Oh yeah,

you, FOX TV!!

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Friday, March 12, 2004 12:49 PM

LJC

20th Century Fox produced the show--they are selling the DVDs. (also, 20th Century Fox had previously partnered with ME to produce Buffy and Angel as well)

FOX network, however, is different.

20th Century Fox does probably still have the TV rights--but they can sell to any buyer. They were, in fact, the ones who pushed for Joss to shop the show around back when FOX pulled it.

20th Century Fox = good guys
FOX tv network = bad guys

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:33 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by KarenKay:
hey ghoulman?? i had not heard or read 'grok' in years. i had to go pull out my copy of stranger in a strange land to make sure i was remembering right.
are you a heinlein fan? i just finished the moon is a harsh mistress and thought you know those loonies could be the browncoats ancestors.

TANSTAAFL!!

"Huh."

I would assume ghoulman is a Heinlein fan, and he's at the top of my list of authors as well. And I know there's got to be at least one other of his fans around here too. Geezer has Heinlein's Naval Academy picture as his avatar.

Don't know if this has been mentioned here yet, but did you know that Tim Minear has been hired to write a screenplay for The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 4:06 PM

KARENKAY99

no i didn't know!! i think harsh mistress would make a great movie. i'll be there.
have you read it? i know i sort of had firefly on the brain as i was reading but i could really picture this as being the beginning of the firefly world. i think it was set in 2075.
i'm reading a book of ray bradbury short stories now. the wilderness was written in 1952 and is set in the year 2003. bradbury thought we'd be eating food pills and traveling to mars. a little off i guess. still a fun story because it's about women traveling to the new frontier mars to be with their men comparing it all to the women in the wagon trains of a hundred years before. i guess space really is the next frontier.

Huh.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 4:48 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I've not only read Harsh Mistress many times (I've lost count), I've read all of his stuff, novels and short stories. "Stranger" was the first SF book I ever read, and I still like it too. In case you haven't figured it out, my username of "ecgordon" is the main character from Glory Road, and I even named my website from something in a Heinlein novel.

Pardon the plug, but if you'd like to know exactly what I think of Heinlein, take a look at some of the articles I've written about him for my website - http://templetongate.tripod.com/rahmain.htm

I've written a Firefly review too - http://templetongate.tripod.com/firefly.htm

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:52 PM

KARENKAY99

i haven't read all heinlein, just a few. i got my daughter to read stranger and harsh mistress and had to reread myself. it had been years. i also read time enough for love but had forgotten it till i looked through your site. i will have to find a copy and reread that as well. i never read glory road, guess i have to look for that one too.
also, very much enjoyed your review of firefly. no need to be afraid of the commentaries though. i have seen all and it's really moving to see the folks involved enjoyed making as much as i enjoyed watching. joss was tightliped about spilling any beans because he really wanted to be able to tell the story later and didn't want to ruin it.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:03 PM

BUTTERFLY043

Yep it's the Fox tv company peeps who want a wrist slapping as opposed to the movie guys at 20th Century Fox.

We ain't got the DVD's here yet but we get 'em in April I think and I'll be sure to grab me a copy when it hits the stores!

Can't believe this run of rotten luck we've had though. Cancellation of Firefly; Buffy finishes; Angel very possibly cancelled. I need a lie down!

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:22 PM

MLSVRKSGN

No kidding - it's enough to make a girl weep.
I keep trying to cheer myself up (and justify my cable subscription) with thoughts like; 'any day now, stargate will get better', or 'hey, that Battlestar Galactica remake looked good in miniseries form, we can hope for the best in the show, cant we?'

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:27 PM

MLSVRKSGN

Aaaaaaah, Heinlein fans. Is there an emoticon for 'basking in the warm, golden glow of kindred spirits'?
One quick question, if it's not too intrusive - how old is your daughter? The spouse and I are arguing about how old a kid should be at first reading of Heinlein's adult novels. I started on them when VERY young, and I suspect it made my dating years a bit more interesting that strictly necessary.

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Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:41 PM

SAMURAIX47

Count me in as a Heinlein fan too... read all of his except for his new first novel that they just published... I share the same birthday as Manny in Moon is a Harsh Mistress... I love to quote Laz Long... Here's one that fits very well with Firefly.

"Get a shot of fast. This upsets him long enough to let you make your second shot perfect."

Jaymes

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 4:09 AM

KARENKAY99

i read heinlein in high school. daughter read heinlein books in her 20's, (she's 25 now, hmnnn, that makes me ... ah ... old?) not because i thought they would be too much for her but because kids don't realize moms have brains till they get older so it took that long for her to want to read anything i promoted. she made me read her fav book Johnny Tremain and i made her read stranger. it took off from there. i just recently had her read to kill a mockingbird. she thought it was predictable. anyway she is avid reader (way more than me) so i feel i did something right. all that reading fru fru bunny to her when she was little paid off. she makes me proud!!

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 5:16 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I first read "Stranger" when I was 17 and it blew me away, mainly because there was so much in there that I had been thinking about myself and it helped me sort out some of my own feelings. Most of his fans probably began with his juvenile novels, or more recenly because his later novels were consistently on best seller lists. My recommendation for anyone who has not read a lot of his stuff already is to wait on "For Us, the Living" because it is not that good, but does have a lot of elements he used in later stories.

My son is now 18, and a big RAH fan as well. I began reading some of them to him when he was about 6 or 7 I believe, and I think "Red Planet" was the first one because I knew he would get a kick out of Willis. He started reading them on his own just a few years after that because he is an exceptional reader. But I told him that it was best for him to wait on reading any of the later novels, and I believe he was around 14 when he first read "Stranger."

For anyone else, I think it depends on their emotional maturity, and their ability to think for themselves. As I point out in one of my articles there are quite a few of Heinlein's opinions that I disagree with, and there are some that might offend a lot of people. But, it is my opinion that a lot of that was the characters talking, not necessarily Heinlein, because he created a wide variety of characters over the years that express a wide variety of opinions.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 5:52 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Forgot to mention that since I wrote my Firefly piece (back in December) I have listened to all the commentaries. I still don't care for them in general, and in this case could have done without all of them, except for Joss' ramblings on "Objects in Space."

I need to go back and update that page, also need to add the movie info.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:54 AM

MLSVRKSGN

O.K. , last off topic post, I promise (and I hope I figured out this 'quote' function right!).
My fav of the juvenile books was "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel". Hands down. Reading it to my seven yr old niece now, and she loves all the dialogue, too. (Go, Oscar!) Originally worried that it might be above her head, but doesnt seem to be.
By the way, a lovely site for RAH, thanks for including the link. Wonder if you're a Harlan Ellison fan as well?

Reason for edit: didnt figure out that quote bit after all. Can you believe I do tech support for a living? How embarrassing.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 11:11 AM

MLSVRKSGN

Odd, I rather liked the commentaries. Except the one for "The Message", w/c I havent listened to. The episode really moves me, and listening to someone talk all over it would just be TOO irritating.
The commentary for "Objects in Space" and
"Serenity" are particular favorites - I love the interaction between Whedon and Fillion. It reminds me just a bit of the commentaries with Kurt Russell and J. Carpenter, particularly on the "Big Trouble in Little China" disk. One gets not only tidbits re filming, but also a sense of real comraderie between the two men. Also, they're funny. And I am a sucker for funny.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 11:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Pablum ?
Milquetoast ?
Grok ?

You wouldn't happen to drive a cab for a livin there ghoulman ?

We're kinda notorious for bizarre linquistic quirks like these....

Brought a smirk to my face to see someone *else* use words like that for once.

-frem
diefuxdie

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:12 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by mlsvrksgn:
By the way, a lovely site for RAH, thanks for including the link. Wonder if you're a Harlan Ellison fan as well?

Most definitely an Ellison fan. Check out http://templetongate.tripod.com/ellison.htm

Use the menu buttons at the top left of any page on my site to access all the other pages, over 160 at last count, with hopefully more to come.

And I would assume from your username you are a Bujold fan. I am too, although I haven't yet read that much by her, but what I have read I have thoroughly enjoyed.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 12:27 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

As I said, the only commentary I cared for was Joss' on "Objects in Space." I feel the others were a bit too frivilous, and besides, I would rather just watch the episodes themselves.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:05 PM

THECRAZYIVAN

I agree that Fox screwed the series by cancelling before it was through (which is what really pissed me off) and i really hope it doesnt have to many legal rights over the series or franchising.

~~~~~~~~~~
Take me out to the black.....

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