Which was the better ship? by Hellboy

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Which was the better ship?

POSTED BY: HELLBOY
UPDATED: Saturday, March 4, 2006 18:36
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VIEWED: 5199
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Friday, April 9, 2004 7:14 PM

This may be the wrong place to post this, but here it goes anyway.

Probably the two best Sci-FI shows of the last ten years, are Farscape, and Firefly. Each one has a few things in common with each other, and certainly, the ships are one. So here is the question.....

Which was the better ship, Serenity, or Moya?

Explain yourselves!

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Friday, April 9, 2004 7:45 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

It's not a fair comparison. First of all, they're differnent classes, Moya is a ship-of-the-line, Serenity is transport. Second, Moya is living thing.

That being said, I prefer Serenity. I just like her lines. Moya has a very simplistic shape. Serenity has a shape to her.

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Friday, April 9, 2004 7:48 PM

SNEAKER98

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
It's not a fair comparison. First of all, they're differnent classes, Moya is a ship-of-the-line, Serenity is transport. Second, Moya is living thing.

That being said, I prefer Serenity. I just like her lines. Moya has a very simplistic shape. Serenity has a shape to her.

Serenity is a work of art. Built for what she does, and that makes her beautiful in my eyes.

"I do the job... and then I get paid. Go run your little world."
-Malcolm Reynolds

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Friday, April 9, 2004 7:57 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellboy:
This may be the wrong place to post this, but here it goes anyway.

Probably the two best Sci-FI shows of the last ten years, are Farscape, and Firefly. Each one has a few things in common with each other, and certainly, the ships are one. So here is the question.....

Which was the better ship, Serenity, or Moya?

Explain yourselves!

Ya know, I hate to be the buzzkill here, but you forgot one from my other favorite series, Bab5 - I'd vote for Serenity any day, but I gotta throw shout out some love to the White Star if you're going for the past 10 yrs-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Friday, April 9, 2004 9:43 PM

LEMAT

Veteran,
My understanding is that Moya is also an unarmed transport, even if she was in peacekeeper service. "Ship-of-the-line" pretty much means a major combatant vessel,like an Alliance crusier or a Peacekeeper Command Carrier, one that would form in the 'line of battle' during the age of sailing ships or battleships. So the two are comprable on that level. Moya is much bigger, it seems, so we don't see the people moving about inside the same familiar spaces, but, rather, going down hallways that I can't tell apart; one might as well be wathcing Star Trek in that regard. That, and Moya's moodswings--or whatever that is when she and pilot won't do as they are told--make me favor Serenity. She has a personality the same way a ship or car or plane does (Kaylee seems tp think she does, at least), but she can't sass back at you and kill you in the process.

Jon

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Friday, April 9, 2004 9:50 PM

TALONPEST

I didn't like Moya at all. I mean, they said she was an organic ship, but I just didn't get the sense that she was alive at all. And design wise, she lacked any real distinguishing features.

Serenity, to be honest, isn't my favorite ship either. But she's got style- she's clearly made to resemble a horse, plus the firefly butt. She's very distinctive- hell, she stood out when she flew by in the background in that 2 second shot in Battlestar Galactica.

Serenity wins hands down.

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Not sure they are comparable, as Moya was so much larger, but here goes.

Firefly is a mutt. A chimera - part bird, part insect. Besides that, she's also a clunker. I simply don't see how she even flys in atmo, having the aerodynamics of a locomotive engine.

Moya is sleek and stylish. She's built for a spin around the 'verse. And oh yeah, she has that whole living/symbiotic thing going for (or against )her.

So, how to decide? I think what helps Serenity become a better ship is those who fly her. The more they put in, the more she gives back. Kaylee and Wash showed as much in 'Serenity' . Moya,on the other hand, might as well be flying around by herself, + her pilot. Beyond that, what does she care who's on the ship?

So, if you're like Book, and think the destination isn't nearly as important as is how one gets there...take Serenity.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. Worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 3:53 AM

EMBERS

I'd vote for Serenity, not because she is sleek or efficient or even clean(!) but because she reminds me of my desire to see the world from a freighter (and how much better to see the universe from a Firefly!). I'd love to get onto a rough anonymous freight carrying vessel and head off to unknown lands and adventures... I have no interest in seeing the world from a cruise ship or some other fancy luxury liner!

Okay, maybe it is unfair to call Moya a luxury cruiser...but she lacks the rough and tough look of the 'crate' that is Serenity!

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 5:08 AM

STATIC

Before I started driving the damn things, I was a crew chief on AH-64's, and before that, I was a crew chief on UH-1's and OH-58's (utility and observation helicopters, respectively) and I have to agree with what others have said. . .

Serenity is a SHIP. Moya is a critter who ACTS like a ship. . .when she's in the mood. The rest of the time, she can be pretty cantankerous. Serenity, was cantankerous at times, but Kaylee wiggled this dingus and adjusted that widget and she flew fine.

"Voodoo Child" is my baby. . .she's MY Serenity. . .and when she gets ornery, Spidermonkey comes out, replaces this dingus and repairs that widget, says a few pretty words to her and she does me just fine. I guess I prefer Serenity to Moya because Serenity is a true ship. . .and acted more like a lady than Moya often did.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:10 AM

CYBERSNARK

Frankly, I have a lot of favourite ships. How some guys feel about cars, I feel about ships.

Serenity has a lot of character built into her, and I like that.

Moya is much more alien, which I also like (a personal fondness, I admit). Also, Pilot is one of my fave SF characters anywhere.

The Whitestar from Bab5 may not be particularly powerful of have much personality, but she has dazzling speed and a beautiful design in her favour.

Also, the Millennium Falcon has most of Serenity's charm, plus weapons (cliché, I know, but there you are).

Absolute favourite ship (in my absolute most disappointing show) must be the Andromeda Ascendant, from the "could've been great" Andromeda. A more aesthetically pleasing design than even the Whitestar, better performance than any Enterprise, a shipboard AI that's much more user-friendly (and snarky

) than Moya, and loaded with fussy machinery that could keep Kaylee busy for years (plus, Harper [Rommie's engineer] is like Wash on a dozen espressos

). Too bad writing sucks after S1.

Also, it comes with the Eureka Maru, a battered old freighter that would be right at home in the Firefly-verse.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:38 AM

DORAN

I liked Farescape though I like Firefly better..

On the surface both Moya and Serenity are cool smooth lined ships (as opposed to Startrek ships). What I have to say about the differences in the ships actually has more to do with budget and planning than what the ships look like on paper or in my imagination.

Farscape: first season and possibly others.. Even though Moya is this huge ship, the blocking constantly shows actors running back and forth in the same small set passage (particularly John in one episode I'm thinking of). Sometimes this works and is not obvious.. but there are a few episodes where is sticks out like a sore thumb.

In contrast, Serenity is mapped out and fleshed as a set in it's entirety. Granted it was easier to do with the smaller ship.. but it's amazing how much at home I started to feel watching this set. It allows for great camera angles and perpective shots you couldn't get when halls and spaces are not correctly aligned and fleshed out.

Both ships grew on me during the respective shows... I warmed to the Firefly class:Serenity faster.. After all the Show is called "Firefly".

"Firefly is a good design"

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 1:34 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
I guess I prefer Serenity to Moya because Serenity is a true ship. . .and acted more like a lady than Moya often did.

'Cept when Moya got pregnant and went all over-protective mum about her fully-loaded warchild.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:15 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

You're right the Andromeda Ascendent is a cool looking ship. But, I think I'd pick the Defiant. Looks good, to me, she's tough, and she's unique (pretty much one of a kind).

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:24 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
You're right the Andromeda Ascendent is a cool looking ship. But, I think I'd pick the Defiant. Looks good, to me, she's tough, and she's unique (pretty much one of a kind).

The original Enterprise, if we're talking iconic.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:27 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
Veteran,
My understanding is that Moya is also an unarmed transport, even if she was in peacekeeper service.

Jon

If that's the case, strike the Ship-of-the-Line comment. Frankly, I haven't watched Farscape that much to debate on Moya's use, from my limited viewing I thought she was a decommissioned combat vessel.

We got a wounded man here.

You boys smell like a still - what did ya do, stop off to celebrate?

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:40 PM

GUNRUNNER

Serenity, the U.S.S. Defiant and NX-01 are my favorites since they all look like real ships. They are all built with a purpose in mind. The Firefly class built to be utilitarian and it looks it, everything on its hull is there for a believable reason.

The Defiant is what a Star Trek warship (or any attack ship present or future) should be, its small its agile, its more heavily armed and armored than all ships in its classification (in regards to ship type ie Destroyers or Frigates not "Defiant Class" classification). The Defiant reminds me of the German "Pocket Battleships" of the Second World War; she can out run anything that can out gun her(except for maybe the Borg) it and out gun anything that can catch it.

And for the Enterprise NX-01 its has the most believable interior (except for maybe Serenity) of any TV space ship, its not square hullways of the Enterprise-D they are round so they have the best structural integrity. You see that they have supporting structure in the corridors. The engine room has a big door to protect the rest of the ship unlike the D where you just stroll in the engineering. The ship is one big space going submarine, which makes sense. A hull designed for to keep what inside in and what outside out the most efficient way possible no matter what medium its traveling in.

The Firefly CCG Web Site:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bllm119/firefly_ccg_web_site.htm
>Help out today!

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:41 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:

Serenity is a SHIP. Moya is a critter who ACTS like a ship. . .when she's in the mood. The rest of the time, she can be pretty cantankerous. Serenity, was cantankerous at times, but Kaylee wiggled this dingus and adjusted that widget and she flew fine.

That's it exactly Static. Moya is huge, she easily accepts Crichton's pod, Aeryn's fighter, Dargo's ship and the victim of the week's vessel with room to spare. She's way too much of a ship for a mere handful of crew to maintain.

Serenity is small, and designed for a crew of six to keep flying. (six crew quarters) She's reliable, uses common parts and is economical to operate, sort of like a liberty or victory ship. One of the few criticisms I have for the design is the huge height of the cargo deck, with all those catwalks and stairs mucking it up. How are you supposed to stack and move cargo when you've got a platform barely 8 feet off the deck smack dab in the middle of the cargo bay?

On the plus side you've seen the crew quarters and their space saving plumbing fixtures. None of this Star Trek-esque no bathrooms in space, we just explode when we retire. Plus, the conversation between Zoe and Wash indicates that bathing accomodations might be just a bit tight on Serenity. Also, in OIS when Early ambushes Book, Book has just come out of a door off the lounge with a towel over his shoulder. A safe assumption then that the common lavatory for the passenger dorm is behind that door.

Nope, Serenity hands down. She's small, old, a tad dirty, and the crappiest hotel in the worlds, but she's homey and reliable.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 4:48 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
GunRunner wrote:
The Defiant is what a Star Trek warship ... should be, its small its agile, its more heavily armed and armored than all ships in its classification (in regards to ship type ie Destroyers or Frigates not "Defiant Class" classification). The Defiant reminds me of the German "Pocket Battleships" of the Second World War; she can out run anything that can out gun her...and out gun anything that can catch it.

I like that description of the Defiant and the comment about the Bismark and Terpis It also reminds me of what the Navy had in mind when they commissioned the Constitution (Old Iron Sides) and her sisters.

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Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:56 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Quote:
GunRunner wrote:
The Defiant is what a Star Trek warship ... should be, its small its agile, its more heavily armed and armored than all ships in its classification (in regards to ship type ie Destroyers or Frigates not "Defiant Class" classification). The Defiant reminds me of the German "Pocket Battleships" of the Second World War; she can out run anything that can out gun her...and out gun anything that can catch it.

I like that description of the Defiant and the comment about the Bismark and Terpis It also reminds me of what the Navy had in mind when they commissioned the Constitution (Old Iron Sides) and her sisters.

Small corrections the Bismarck and Tirpitz were capitol ships. They were full scale battleships. Bismarck dipslaced well over 42,000 tons and had 8, 15 inch rifles in 4 twin turretts.

The pocket battleships Veteran referred to were smaller ships that weighed more than a heavy cruiser, had more armor and a heavier, though less numerous main armament. The Deutschland, Admiral Scheer and Admiral Graf Spee displaced 12,000 tons and carried 6, 11 inch rifles in 2 triple turretts as opposed to an American heavy cruiser's 10,000 ton displacement and 9, 8 inch rifles in 3 triple turrets.

Good observation on the Constitution class frigates.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Sunday, April 11, 2004 5:17 AM

BLUESUNWORSHIPPER

I tend to agree that these two ships are far too different to compare. Moya is like a horse and rider pulling a wagon...without Pilot, she would run loose wherever she chooses. Also, Moya was not built to BE a ship, she was a living organism that was captured by the Peacekeepers and enslaved to be a ship. She's more a character in the true sense than a ship. Serenity, on the other hand, is a mechanism. Any "personality" applied to her is anthropomorphi, whereas Moya has a mind and a will of her own. Talyn, on the other hand (Moya's son), was bred to be a warship, without a mind of his own. His personality did develop on it's own, however, and he did become more like his mother than like a battle cruiser, but he was intended to be a ship, not a creature. The thing that defines these two organic ships is that what they do is a choice they make, rather than a choice made by her captain. If Serenity is piloted by Wash into another ship, sacrificing themselves to save the crew, it is Wash making that decision, not Serenity. If Moya or Talyn sacrifice themselves (as Talyn DID, actually), they must make that choice, which is a more heroic act than simply being piloted. Wash would be the hero in that scenario, rather than Serenity, whereas Moya and Talyn would be the hero...and Pilot, if there is one aboard.

I agree that a fairer comparison would be the Defiant, NX-01, or the Whitestar. Either way, Serenity takes the cake on pure functionality. I like the way the walls go out, gives it an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. :)

Sorry, fell into a series quote for a minute. Anyway, if you want to talk about a ship that LOOKS like what it was designed for, then I say you've got a tie between Serenity and Defiant. Serenity is an ungainly old girl that transports cargo; like the lady, plain and tall, that usually wallflowers at the dance, but lights up with a smile when you ask her out. Defiant is the hard-ass fighter with the chip on it's shoulder. Serenity and Defiant, both good-looking ships that look like what they were meant to be.

Sorry, but the Whitestar always looked too much like a plucked turkey for my tastes. I agree with the previous poster that said the Millenium Falcon is more like the Serenity than any other ship. A cargo runner, built for functionality more than aesthetics, but damn if she don't kick ass. :)

Anyhoo, that's my three bits.

- T

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Friday, February 10, 2006 6:59 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
It's not a fair comparison. First of all, they're differnent classes, Moya is a ship-of-the-line, Serenity is transport. Second, Moya is living thing.

That being said, I prefer Serenity. I just like her lines. Moya has a very simplistic shape. Serenity has a shape to her.

check this site they got farscape Moya, Star Trek Enterprise, a real Boeing 747 diagram, the Xwing out of Starwars, and Babylon-5 spacecraft

but the webpage has

NO SERENITY !

no Adelei Niska's space station complex, no Alliance ships, no Jubal Early spacecraft, and no Reaver vessels
http://www.merzo.net/10ppm.htm
this has got to change !!

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Friday, February 10, 2006 7:34 PM

CHOZZEN

Romulan Warbird all the way. Klingon Bird of Prey follows close second.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 7:39 PM

D3RBY

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:

NO SERENITY !
no Adelei Niska's space station complex, no Alliance ships, no Jubal Early spacecraft, and no Reaver vessels
http://www.merzo.net/10ppm.htm
this has got to change !!

He will put it up rather quickly if someone mails him the proper dimensions and he gets someone to do the artwork. I sent him the dimensions of the Aliens Comanche Dropship and they were up in 2 weeks.

The Commanche Dropship is my favorite class of ships (though technically it is just a shuttle).

Specific ships though it'd have to be Serenity. It has a nice aesthetic to it, is compact but no too much so to get cramped (like being on a sub). Plus it has personality and quirks, one of the things that also made the Millenium Falcon great.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 7:40 PM

MISBEHAVE

I like Serenity very much, though my first impression of it was, wow, that ship is awkward. I love its interior how close and crowded the inside is.It adds to a sense of togetherness, and it makes you care for the ship.

However, in this respect, Moya is clearly the better ship. While Firefly is often called the "10th character", it really isnt. Moya is literally a character, whose actions affect the rest of the crew dramatically. She is an wonderful charcter, who gives the show a unique flair.

Also, realistically, cmon. Moya has to win. She is undoubtably faster and bigger. Her biological problems are relativly unimportant when compared to the problems with a ship (paying for fuel, general upkeep, and breakdowns, which Moya almost never has, as she is nearly autonomous). And, the most important thing: Starburst.

Moya, by a long shot.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:35 AM

GIXXER

The Liberator from Blake's 7. And in the face of stone-age animation technolgy and a BBC £1.50 production budget.

On Babylon 5, the big Minbari cruisers were good, but the Shadow ships looked well cool and, I believe, started the craze for carbon-fibre everything.

I also have to include Mr Garibaldi's ZZR-1100 as a space vehicle.

Topic, you say? Oh, all right. Serenity.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:36 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Shiny!
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2006/03/04/shiny/
What ship would I fit in best?

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