What are Brown Coats to do? by Hixie129

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What are Brown Coats to do?

POSTED BY: HIXIE129
UPDATED: Saturday, January 5, 2008 14:36
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VIEWED: 9819
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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:35 PM

I wouldn't even know what to vote for. Is there some copy of a 'Browncoat Manifesto' that I missed reading? I always thought being a Browncoat meant loving and supporting Firefly (and subsequently, Serenity). Never occurred to me that it involved boycotting a whole network because of a bad decision 5 years ago.

Guess I've been violating the Manifesto by watching House (which is a great show, btw) and 24.

My vote is this: if Dollhouse is good, I'll watch it. If it sucks, I won't. Makes no difference to me if it's on FOX, NBC, ABC, ESPN or the Oxygen Channel. It's Joss, and thusly, I'll check it out.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:41 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Sorry, Hixie, but I have to vote...

YES.

First off, you are using an invalid analogy. The Alliance is a fictionalized creation from the mind of Joss Whedon. If anything, it represented the Bush Administration, or possibly the Reagan/Bush41/Bush43 hegemony. It was not intended to represent the FOX television network, although that was a convenient thing to think after Firefly was axed.

Are you only a Firefly fan, or are you a Joss Whedon fan? The man has created three of the most brilliant television series of all time, and all three would be placed in my Top 10 ranking of shows. Yes, Firefly is #1, and I think it unlikely anything is going to topple it from the top of the list anytime soon, even another Joss show.

I don't know at what point you came into the fandom, but I watched it from the beginning, cursed FOX when it was canceled, bought the dvds as soon as they were available, and have watched the show well over two dozen times by now. I have also given away more than ten copies to friends and family, donated to the library and to the DVDs for the Troops campaign.

But no matter how mad I was at FOX, I did watch Wonderfalls (all four episodes they aired), all seven episodes aired of The Inside, and all four of Drive (plus the last two online). I also watched some (but not all) of Tru Calling, and some of Standoff and Bones.

As I stated earlier in this thread, if I boycotted a network that had canceled a beloved show, I would not be able to watch any network television at all. I'm 57 years old, and have seen many shows canceled far before their time.

I trust Joss, not much else needs to be said.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:42 PM

HIXIE129

I remember a couple of years ago there was a boycott call on FOX by the brown coats... Boycott FOX , boycott the advertisers, Write letters, picket lines at the studio....

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:46 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

So you are now saying that you will no longer watch sports on the FOX network, that you will boycott them completely?

Even if your answer is yes, I don't think I have to use your logic in coming to a decision on my own.

I still vote YES. I will watch Dollhouse. And Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:47 PM

HIXIE129

Thank you for your vote ecgordon, I am glad that you had the conviction to vote.. I am a Firefly fan, I am not a devoted buffy nor Angel fan... So my stake in this is limited. I realize that the Alliance was before firefly was axed, but FOX became the symbol of the Alliance for me and others. As I stated I will go with the majority

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Friday, December 28, 2007 3:47 PM

FOLLOWMAL

Hixie, I understand your passion, I really do.

But just as you're not quite convicted enough to let go of football on F*x, I'm not quite convicted enough to quit watching F*x and am willing to give it a chance.

I did it with Drive and had heartache. I'll do it again with something else too. Probably with F*x and with another network too. Because seeing new shows, liking or loving new shows and losing them is part of life.

And all aside from that... my allegiance is to Joss. I trust him. I'm a Browncoat because he made me one. I never lose sight of that.

I LOVE his stories. I don't care where he goes to tell them to me, I don't care if I don't get to see them all, I can withstand the heartache for a chance to live that magic he makes ... even if for a short time.

Because I believe that Joss knows what he's doing. He is not naive, he's savvy to the industries vagaries and he knows the game he's playing.

Besides, as much as I love being a Browncoat and I am loyal to you all, our beloved show and spreading it around to new folks, I'm also just a human who loves good tv. And I'll take it however I can get it. Joss makes perfect tv. I am looking forward to watching it on F*x with relish. Just as I'd wager you enjoy watching football with relish on F*x.

It's not about F*x it's about us and what we love.
There is no battle, there is no war, there is no them and us. There's just us. Watching for the next magic Joss brings us.

"Wars long done. We're all just folk now." - Mal

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Friday, December 28, 2007 4:05 PM

HIXIE129

Well said FollowMal,, I guess I am still so bitter after all these years, I still look at FOX to vent my rage. And Joss signing with FOX hurt very much too.. But you are wise FollowMal and I must deal with all my pain.. Someday it might get better for me.. Thanks

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Friday, December 28, 2007 4:48 PM

MOOSE

I will watch and recommend Dollhouse only because of the involvement of Joss. I also fully expect it to only last a few episodes.

F*X has a looong history of screwing over shows that I enjoy. So it's gonna take a lot more than Joss working with them to get me to "forgive" them.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 5:15 PM

EMBERS

I vote yes, yes I would follow Joss to hell if need be!
I am Whedon's bitch and I will watch any show he makes, I'll buy the DVDs, and the comic books, and the action figures.
I'll draw lots of fan art, design my own t-shirts and buy the official ones too.
I don't care where he goes, or what show he creates, I'll be there.

yes, absolutely positively. yes.

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Friday, December 28, 2007 5:57 PM

HIXIE129

embers, it is good to be in touch with your true self

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Friday, December 28, 2007 7:10 PM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
I guess I am still so bitter after all these years, I still look at FOX to vent my rage. And Joss signing with FOX hurt very much too. I must deal with all my pain.. Someday it might get better for me.. Thanks

I understand the bitterness. But it's long wasted on them now and only makes you feel bad.
I hate to see anyone feeling bad with all the stuff we have to be grateful for. :-)
I hope it does get better for you... there is so much to enjoy. Past laments, past the pain is fun... with us, with new shows and with the hope we have for more FF/S one of these days.

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
F*X has a looong history of screwing over shows that I enjoy. So it's gonna take a lot more than Joss working with them to get me to "forgive" them.

I don't have to forgive them or forget what they've done to watch what they put out for me to see. If it's what I love, if it's good, I'm watchin'!

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Friday, December 28, 2007 9:26 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

If it's what I love, if it's good, I'm watchin'!

The problem is that by the time it's realized that it's good and worth watchin', it's GONE!

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:28 AM

HIXIE129

Blackadder your vote doesn't count, its a yes or no vote.

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:21 AM

FREELANCERTEX

Quote:
Hixie129: A Simple YES or NO vote.. That’s all I would like. I want to know if the Brown Coats will surrender to FOX as Joss did. I will go along with the majority…

Wait, so you started this whole argument in protest of what Joss did and to express how wrong and betraying it was, but you'd give up your opinion and concede to a majority vote just because it's what everyone else thinks is right?

You're making it sound like Joss is giving up, and he's not. He's choosing a different path. And, as has been said before, you can't condemn a whole network for the actions of the few or the one, especially the few or the one that aren't there anymore. And if you support Joss, really support what he does and what he has created, you should continue to support him in future endeavors, because you never know, our support for this upcoming story may just open the door to relight the Firefly once more.

Quote:
And to saying in the future that we love Dollhouse even if it stinks just so that we can hold out for a glimmer of hope that FOX might bring back Firefly..

You sound as if you've already made up your mind that it's going to suck no matter what. Give it a chance, stop being close-minded. Maybe, just maybe, it'll be really great. Ever think of that option? I know it's kind of the other end of the spectrum, but I think Joss is capable of writing something great. I mean, look at Firefly.

Quote:
I will never surrender to that Evil Frackin Network and would rather watch the TOON channel for the rest of my life.

That's just immature.

If by "surrendering" to Fox you mean keeping an open mind and actually giving Dollhouse a chance, and not shunning it just because it's different from what YOU want, and making an effort to support it for Joss and the hope we still hold onto that Firefly will someday return (and it will) then I'm going to have to say to you that I am a Browncoat, I wear my colors proudly, and I'm voting yes.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:52 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
Maybe Joss has the Helsinki syndrome or maybe he has been brainwashed and needs some deprogramming;

Joss is at FOX its done.. What about the loyal Brown Coats, do we surrender to the Evil Alliance?

Nope...Not Helsinki Syndrome...You're not even

in the right country , dude ! That would

be 'Stockholm' Syndrome...You can look it up

later...

Browncoats Surrender ? If you have to ask ,

then I wonder if you're an Alliance Operative

yourself...

Browncoats Surrender ? Never , NEVER ,

NEVER !!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Quiet desperation is the English way..."
--Pink Floyd
***********************************************************************************************************************************

" Will work for Bar Credit at The Brown Coat Pub and Theatre "

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:20 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

There is such a thing as a false dichotomy, the proposed vote is one of them.

I will NOT watch Dollhouse because the premise is personally repulsive to me. I'm not sure if it is even possible to make something that would repel me more and still have it legally allowed to be broadcast.

Does that mean I will never watch anything on Fox, no. I may or may not at some time in the future find something that I believe Fox has done which is both worth watching and personally appealing to me.

Given that I can't say I will never watch Fox, and I likewise can not say yes to, " saying in the future that we love Dollhouse," where does that put my vote? I am not so weak minded that I will change my position just so you can have your false dichotomy.

-

Now I have a question for you, since when was being a browncoat about bowing to the will of the majority? If you truly believe that Fox is so evil we should never watch a scripted show there (though not evil enough to forsake football) why are you willing to turn away from that belief just because a majority disagrees?

I could understand if you were willing to part with your convictions because someone convinced you were wrong, that's part of what sanity is all about, but to give up on your convictions because they got voted down ... well that isn't very independent-like.

Now some may say that the independents should have been killed off of every world spinning, but I think people shouldn't bow to the will of the majority just because the majority says so. If you think Fox should be boycotted except during sporting events I'll support your right to think that and follow through with it if you so choose regardless of the will of the majority and even though I disagree with you. To do otherwise wouldn't be very browncoat-like of me.

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 7:41 PM

BROWNCOAT2007

Wow... I'm a self professed Firefly FANATIC... but isn't this takeing it a bit far mate??

I will personally watch this show because

1) JOSS WHEDON WROTE IT!!!!
2) It seems similar to John Doe... another good scifi show that I liked a bunch, and the premise seems interesting to me

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Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:09 PM

BORIS

You are obviously deeply affected by this. everyone is entitled to their passions...forgive me for my presumptiosness, but perhaps to temper/detract from your unhappiness you may find it comforting to re channel your impressive passion towards issues that are globally relevant perhaps something relating to underdogs/minorities/browncoats in society. again not trying to critiscise just offering a suggestion, as to what a Browncoat is to do while they ponder upon a solution to their current dilema.

P.S. Sad as it is, General's have to pay bills too, and sometimes that requires defection.

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:01 AM

HIXIE129

OUT2THEBLACK, I stand corrected on the Syndrome, but an Alliance operative I am not..

CHRISTHECYNIC Brown Coats are a minority, but I will accept the majority rule of Brown Coat Nation.. I don’t think one man can be an island.

Browncoat7, Many people are Joss fans, and they follow him blindly, as for me I think that he is great and I am a fan of some of his work..

If Firefly came back tomorrow and Joss never wrote another episode of the series and let’s say that Jane Espenson wrote all of the new shows that would be just fine with me…

Boris, I personally don’t believe that global affairs should be discussed here.. I think global topics should be discussed at sites that are devoted to those topics.. I myself like discussing things related to firefly/ Serenity on this site mostly because this site has been a firefly FAN site.

Boris, Generals do defect, I want to know should the troops defect too.

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:18 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Hixie129:
CHRISTHECYNIC Brown Coats are a minority, but I will accept the majority rule of Brown Coat Nation.. I don’t think one man can be an island.

So you are saying that blindly accepting the rule of the majority within a group is ok, just so long as the group itself is a minority?

Quote:
If Firefly came back tomorrow and Joss never wrote another episode of the series and let’s say that Jane Espenson wrote all of the new shows that would be just fine with me…

Unless of course it came back on Fox (the most likely place for it to do so), in which case if your vote turns out a certain way you will have vowed never to watch it or anything else (other than football) Fox ever again (because watching shows on, or making shows at, Fox is somehow akin to surrender), you would rather watch the TOON Channel for the rest of you life.

-

Remember, this isn't defection or surrender, this is one detail away from exactly what we want. Joss is back at Fox producing a show. Anyone and everyone who wants Firefly back on the air wants Joss back at Fox producing a show. The only difference between what is happening and total victory on our part is that the show Joss is producing is not Firefly. It is a gorram huge detail, but if Joss being at Fox producing a show means he has surrendered or defected means that if we ever win (and don't you want to win?) it can likewise be described as surrender or defection because victory will, by defintion, include Joss being at Fox producing a show. Does that seem right to you?

Joss creating a show at Fox is a major victory for us, a step a great distance in the right direction. If Fox screws it over it is a major defeat, such is life. I'm trying to see it from your perspective, truly I am, but given that what most of us seem to want most necessarily involves Joss working for Fox, I don't see how him working for Fox is in itself bad. At best it is a step towards our goal, at worst nothing bad happens to us. Wouldn't it be great if all situations were like that?

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:10 AM

HIXIE129

If firefly were to come back to FOX then I am sure the majority of Brown Coats would support it, and so would I. No problem. And I wouldn't have to watch the TOON channel.

Is Joss being FOX is a step forward?, sure, but I don't trust FOX. Has Brown Coat majority forgiven FOX since Joss has taken a job there, it seems some have forgiven and they have forgotten their pain and the void that still exists without the verse. For me Dollhouse is no replacement.

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:03 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Hixie, I think you are wrong. None of us that are voting YES have forgotten what a heartache Firefly's cancelation was, and still is. I doubt I will ever truly forgive (those certain executives at) FOX for what they did to our shiny show. But I trust Joss to create, write and produce a show that is worth watching, whether or not I ultimately think it is as good as Firefly. The fact that he has been given another chance after the bitter way his previous relationship there ended I think is a sign of hope, both for Joss and the Browncoats, and possibly for the eventual revival of Firefly.

Personally, I don't care if you watch Dollhouse or not, but I think your watching sports on FOX but nothing else is highly hypocritical. It's still the same network, and NBC, CBS and ESPN run plenty of football anyway.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:14 AM

BLACKADDER7

I totally agree with you EC. And as much as I hold the execs at FOX that cancelled Firefly in disdain, I tend to think of the following:

Were it not for those same execs, it's very likely that Firefly wouldn't even exist. No other network would touch the show with a 100 foot pole (and after the show was cancelled, he tried to bring it elsewhere. no other network, not even the cable channels, wanted anything to do with Firefly). Part of me is grateful to FOX that they even gave the show a chance. I mean, let's be serious. It's a space western. With funny, pretty characters, sure, but how hard a concept must that have been to sell to anyone? So without FOX, there'd probably be no Firefly, no Browncoats, no Serenity, and no fandom.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 3:50 AM

HIXIE129

B adder7, FOX produced firefly because Joss was there already.. When Firefly was canceled Joss did not shop around to the other networks Firefly, FOX owned the rights to the show... As far as I know FOX still has the rights.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 4:22 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Sorry, but you are wrong again, Hixie.

The television rights to Firefly reside at 20th Century Fox Studios, not the FOX television network. Yes, they are owned by the same conglomerate corporation, Rupert Murdoch's News Corps, but they are separate business entities.

They did allow Joss to shop the show around, but none were buying, mainly due to the expense. As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, we should be grateful that FOX gave us the opportunity to see the show at all, but we should also curse them for canceling it, along with all the other networks that were not receptive to keeping Serenity flying.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 12:51 PM

FOREVERFIREFLYFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:

Then Joss will be declared King of FOX, change the name of the network to JOSS TV, bring back Firefly, and invite all the folks who have worked for him to develop shows for his network.

Works for me.

11th Hour
Loyal Browncoat

Works for me too 11th Hour.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2008 7:02 PM

ROBYADI

I was mad at the idea of Joss working on another show. It seemed to me that he has this gem of a show (firefly) with wonderful characters and stories and hes just holding it back for himself. Instead of trying to push the idea for more big damn sequals or shows dealing with the verse he works on something else. I know he wants to work on more firefly based things but he doesn't hold all the cards.

I understand that by doing another show with FOX he could gain some ground there and if the show does well the same thing could happen as it did before. While working on Buffy FOX wanted another show outa him so he gave them Firefly. Maybe the same could happen again.

Alls I know is I am one frustrated fan. I saw the show over a year ago and have been geeked about it ever since. I just got my girlfriend to watch it with me and she loves it. And this girl hates... HATES sci-fi stuff. She can't stop loving the show. No one can. I wish there was just more I could do.

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Saturday, January 5, 2008 2:36 PM

FREELANCERTEX

as someone on this thread said before, "Even Generals have to pay the bills." he can't sit on his @ss wishing for more sequels or another chance at Firefly (as I have said before). And just because he's working on this thing now, doesn't mean he's not still working on his baby, his love. he will never abandon Firefly. he's not holding back, he's trying to create another chance to share his passion.

There is something you can do. keep supporting what we all love :) keep supporting Joss. and keep the hope alive.

__________________________
Have you ever wondered why in a dream you can touch a falling sky?
Or fly to the heavens that watch over you?

"I am a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar."

A man is least himself when he speaks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will show you his true self.

You can't take the sky from me...

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