GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Impondeables: Trouble No More

POSTED BY: NVGHOSTRIDER
UPDATED: Friday, February 15, 2008 08:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4624
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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:57 AM

MSB


Well smelling like it all day is going to be weird, plus I don't really like smelling like cumin, chilies, onions, and such...




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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:11 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


You're welcome. And everyone is welcome to use them here or elsewhere. Share the love, people!




Banners, Avatars, LJ Icons and other fun stuff at www.desktophippie.com
Valentines Day banners posted last year in the Blue Sun Room. Click on my profile to find them!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:37 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Good morning people. How's everyone this fine Wednesday.

GAWD I WISH IT WERE FRIDAY ALREADY!

Thursday will do. New marker day. Oh, and payday too.

Ya know Kelkhil, I gotta give props. There are still some guys who run about with the old carbines and pumps. I tend to take them out first 'cause they tend to be those sneaky ghost flanking ambushing cutthroat bastards. They make the game truly worth playing. HALO tactics (according to the way the kids play) just make for more targets. YAY FOR MORE TARGETS!


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:50 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
Well smelling like it all day is going to be weird, plus I don't really like smelling like cumin, chilies, onions, and such...

i once smelled like a recently deceased pig heart for most of a day at work.
so.
yeah.
could be worse. XD

(details deleted to protect the mad science)

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:51 AM

MSB


Oh Friday so can't get here soon enough!!!!



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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 6:57 AM

KELKHIL


Quote:

Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Ya know Kelkhil, I gotta give props. There are still some guys who run about with the old carbines and pumps. I tend to take them out first 'cause they tend to be those sneaky ghost flanking ambushing cutthroat bastards. They make the game truly worth playing. HALO tactics (according to the way the kids play) just make for more targets. YAY FOR MORE TARGETS!




Yeah well when I used to play the Angel was just hitting the Market.

Loves my .68 Carbine.

Friend of mine still has his old VM68 (I think it was 68?).

We were actually talking a few weeks ago about "getting the band back together" so to speak and thrashing some young punks this spring.

Would be great if it happened.

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

Kelkhil
The Shirtless Forsaken


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:01 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Nothing boosts the manly feelings like putting pups in their place.

Ooh. Shooting Sunday. Manly feelings to follow. Yay!


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:04 AM

ZEEK


Ah MsB is a good resource. Can I get your opinion on this article? http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/790858,CST-NWS-isat13web.articl
e


Cause it just ticks me off. I understand that parents want to shield their kids, but they need every opportunity in life and speaking English is a big help for them. The earlier the kids are forced to get up to speed the better. It's going to be tough of course, but the kids will be better for it.

Holding them out of school is only going to get them to fall farther behind.

Am I missing something? Is the article not explaining things well enough? I'm sure you have a better perspective on stuff like this.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:37 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


By no means an education expert here but wouldn't that point teachers in the right direction of what the kid actually needs to learn associated to English? Math sure is easy to learn since numbers are universal but once they get into having to learn rules and laws of math wouldn't the lack of language understanding hinder that learning? Just because their kids score low it does not mean their children are dumb. It means that they are given a chance to learn further by finding out what they still need to learn. Besides, if the parent are trying to naturalize don't they have to learn English anyways. Boo hoo, people moving in who can't press on because they can't or WON'T learn English. Sorry. Go home.


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:56 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by nvghostrider:
By no means an education expert here but wouldn't that point teachers in the right direction of what the kid actually needs to learn associated to English? Math sure is easy to learn since numbers are universal but once they get into having to learn rules and laws of math wouldn't the lack of language understanding hinder that learning? Just because their kids score low it does not mean their children are dumb. It means that they are given a chance to learn further by finding out what they still need to learn. Besides, if the parent are trying to naturalize don't they have to learn English anyways. Boo hoo, people moving in who can't press on because they can't or WON'T learn English. Sorry. Go home.


*ding* *ding* *ding*

See this is how I feel. The low score is a wake up call. How long do you think they can go before the lack of English skills start hurting them in every subject? I don't know how classes are taught these days. Maybe there really is a bilingual focus of some kind, but eventually they need to get caught up.

I just feel like the parents are really hurting this situation. By making it a big deal they are basically sending a message to their kids that they should resist learning English. The children will believe their parents are right and think that they shouldn't have to learn English.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:25 AM

MSB


Well it's like this Zeek.. if I take you to Russia and you've been there a year you probably speak well enough to talk to people, but what about all the school words. All the scientific terms occluded, oxidation, organic, paleomagnetic, orbital, permeability, photosphere, refractive index, regional metamorphism, ... could you learn all these scientific terms, all the math terms product, quotient, independent variable, mantissa,
and learn what they mean in 2 different languages ??? all in time to take a test??? in less than 6 months after you've started the school year? Because after a year in a country you have about 20,000 words in your vocab. Each school year you learn about 6,000 new terms... it's impossible to master this volume of information while you are still trying to learn the language, customs, expectations, and everything else in your new school. You can learn to speak conversation English well in a year, but to learn all the conversational stuff, all the school stuff, proper grammar( which has a structure very different from your own) learn to write on a grade level above while still trying to understand the irrational logic of i before e except after c and in the case where the elongated vowel is subceeded by a consonant.... come on that's impossible
They are just asking that the test not be given to kids who have been here so short a time. Plus , as teachers we're penalized because we have to teach them the language, teach them the subject matter, and teach and entirely different school and social structure in less than 7 months ( because the testing happens in April not at the end of the school year) so I agree with the parents....


They aren't asking not to take the test, merely to not have kids who have spoken this language for less than 2 years not have to take it in English... because one year is not long enough to learn an entire language and master all the academic concepts involved too.


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:43 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


thanks, MsB.
it's nice to have it outlined like that.




besides, english and grammar is am lames.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:46 AM

MSB


HUSG Hk yes it are

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:14 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


hey everyone.

I am not at work today due to a stomach bug I woke up with. I am feeling better now, but I didn't want y'all to worry, so please don't. I'll be back to my normal (if you can call it that ) self tomorrow I am sure.

*glomps the sexeh hippie*

*attempts to sneak up and tacklehug HK*

*snuggles MsB*


~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

Dude, jerking off on my mom is one thing. But banging your grandmother and her roommates? That's like... legendary.

xBox 360 GamerTag: Swinger420

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:16 AM

MSB


HUGS Jimi... now get back in bed and let Amanda get you some juice...



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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:52 AM

ZEEK


MsB so you're saying they just want to be exempt for a while? I guess that's OK, but to me it still seems like they are behind. The test will reflect that. Now if that means the school loses funding then that's not cool (I take it that's some part of it too). Still I think the parents and students should see the low scores to see what a huge hurdle is ahead of them and make goals of how much they need to improve by the next round of tests. It's not worth freaking out over a low score, but it's good to know where you're at. Especially if they give you the relative score compared to others at that grade level.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:08 AM

HOBBLEIT


Quote:

Originally posted by nvghostrider:
It is only omission if you leave off some of your education. Just getting your foot in the door might help out more than you think. Hell, I just get stir crazy not doing anything. Good luck Hobbs. If an uneducated pud like myself can bullshit his way into management then someone like yourself should have no problems climbing the ladder. Don't feel bad about stepping over bodies along the way (as long as you didn't cause their demise). Kharma really loves tugging at the nethers once you start leveling out with the upper echelon. And never be afraid to open the whoop ass can when needed. Assert yourself as a person willing to get the job done or to maintain for the long haul.



My friend suggested that but then I'd have to explain the gaping hole that three years at university would create.

My friend had this whole story worked out about living in a remote part of Mongolia with a nomad aunt who ahd no phone.

He overthinks things sometimes

******************************

http://www.myspace.com/muddy_waters

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:19 AM

MSB


Yup Zeek... kids don't pass,school loses money, and teachers get fired.
Plus these kids aren't behind at all... they just haven't managed to simultaneously learn all the academic concepts in English and their home language. What the parents want is the test given in their language so the kids can show they've mastered the concepts( which they likely have) I am serious,if I left you in Russia and came back in 7 months and expected you to learn all the language you needed to communicate and all the concepts of an entire grade level and all the vocabulary that came with those concepts in Russian in that time there's no way you could do it...That's why they are saying it's unfair. The kids aren't behind. They just had 7 months to learn a language considered one of the 3 most difficult in the world and learn all the academic concepts.... so that's not behind at all. They know the concepts, they just need to be tested in their own language to prove it because they haven't had time to learn both the concepts and the language.


I mean seriously Zeek are you telling me you could learn an entire language, and cultural references( like every fairy tale, religious story, important movie, political figures, and anything else that we all share as common knowledge...and is on the test), and a years worth of academic concepts, and all the vocabulary of the academic concepts and then take a test and score an 85% or better ( that would be passing by the way) in 7 months with only 7 hours a day???
Also that's 989,614 totally new words to learn by the way.


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:33 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


also... it seems kinda dumb to take a test you and everyone else knows you're going to fail just so everyone can see the report that you failed. where's the benefit in that?

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:52 AM

ZEEK


Of course I couldn't learn all that. In fact I bet I'd be horribly behind where you think I would be. I'm awful at foreign languages. Though I still think the language barrier would mean I would be significantly behind all the native speakers and that the test should show that. I mean why would anyone hire me in Russia if I can't even communicate to them that I know concepts about anything? I'd clearly be way behind the native speakers.

The teachers getting fired and funding being pulled seems like a major problem with the system. It's just not fair to say it's the teacher's fault. There's a major learning curve and these kids are at the beginning of it. There's nothing wrong with it but it's a reality.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:41 AM

MSB


yup so it's just set up to make all teachers look bad and make students feel like failures... so obviously a great idea:)

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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:09 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Though I still think the language barrier would mean I would be significantly behind all the native speakers and that the test should show that.

the test would only show the true(r) measure of your knowledge if it were given to you in your native language. if it is not in your native language, the test is first and foremost measuring how well you understand this new language. the material actually learned and comprehended in school is secondary, at best.

if it is not an english comprehension examination, then english should be removed from the equation to bring the test to a fair, unbaised equilibrium.

i can explain all the rules and regulations enforced by the FDA regarding medical devices, i know many of the requirements set by the international standards organisation for these devices, i know how to design and develop cardiac implants, i know many of the principles of engineering, etc. but i would never be able to pass an exam if it were in, say, spanish or norwegian. an exam in a different language neither negates my knowledge base nor proves that i learned less than others who are fluent in that language.

it's really quite simple.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:46 PM

MSB


Beautifully put HK:)

But No Child Left Behind has absolutely no interest in what is fair...why else would I be judged on how well I can make this years 7th graders outperform last years ( keeping in mind that the average IQ of my kids last year was 90 and this year it's 76) so no chance my kids will make AYP ( adaquate yearly progress) this year...which is why I will be identified as a failing teacher...yippeee!!!

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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:31 AM

MSB


Wow I killed the thread with my rambling diatribe... oops


HUGS to all

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:46 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


*bigassjimibearhuggles MsB*


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:56 AM

MSB


*snugglehugs Jimi* feeling better sweety???



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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:34 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Okay Ponderers (or Imponeables as the thread states after me trying to fix it too many times) I'm sincerely wishing everyone a Happy Valentines Day. I have a deep fondness for each and every one of you and I just want you all to know it.

Instead of reflecting on the shitty reoccurances since the fifth grade I'm sharing what I'm doing to celebrate with myself.

Retail therapy (as MSB puts it):

Theater therapy:

I might even take myself to dinner.


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:37 AM

MSB


HUGS NV...ooh retail therapy is a must:) Am getting a bit of that myself ( new outfit for Friday...giggle)

OK cheering up... sorry for being such a sour puss:)

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:38 AM

ZEEK


HK, I think we're just looking at the tests differently. I would think keeping them English would be a good macro overview of how prepared they are to function in US society. Changing them to other languages would give a micro view of specific subjects. It all depends on the goal of the tests.

Anyway this subject appears to be killing the thread so let's talk about idiots and how annoying they are. Like when they decide it's a great idea to back down an aisle in a parking lot without looking behind them and ignoring the person's horn they're about to hit. grrrr

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:46 AM

MSB


ooh Zeek were you the one who got hit?? ( and on a side note the tests are meant to measure their progress in science, math, and such)

At least it's not mother nature out to get you..
My poor friend Brian decided to take his new car on a road trip... first he was struck by lightning and the car was totaled. Insurance grumbled a bit, but replaced the car. Then he was continuing on and was hit by a freak late spring hail storm and the new replacement car was totaled. Insurance company really grumbled, but replaced the car yet again... then as he neared Utah, he took a mountain road and a deer leaped out, landed on his hood, and destroyed the car... insurance company grumbled, tripled his rates, replaced the car again and warned him that one more accident and he would be "uninsurable"... we all believe that he has pissed off mother nature and now no one will go camping with him for fear of moose stampede or freak salmon attack

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:58 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Ouch, MSB! Poor guy! Why is mother nature suddenly being such a... well, mother with him?

I saw Cloverfield! I quite enjoyed it, actually. And for all the handheld camera stuff, the special effects were very big and very fun. It's an enjoyable movie, hope you like it!




Banners, Avatars, LJ Icons and other fun stuff at www.desktophippie.com
Valentines Day banners posted last year in the Blue Sun Room. Click on my profile to find them!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:07 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


I just see todays stuff as a grand distraction since I'm so hyped for the weekend.

Ooh. Just looked out the window.

Blue skies
Smiling at me
Nothing but blue skies
Do I see


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:17 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
*snugglehugs Jimi* feeling better sweety???


no, not really.


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:21 AM

KELKHIL


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
or freak salmon attack



I don't know why.... but this here image is just really funny to me!

(chuckles)

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

Kelkhil
The Shirtless Forsaken


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Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:45 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
( and on a side note the tests are meant to measure their progress in science, math, and such)

Oh, are you sure about that?

I'm beginning to think Zeek's right and those tests are actually trying to measure how well suited 7th graders are for positions within the US job market.

[/sarcastic bitch]

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 8:50 AM

MSB


Bluebirds
Singing a song
Nothing but bluebirds
All day long

LOL no really HK they're trying to prove all teachers are incompetent, all immigrants are bad and lazy, and school should be put in the hands of paid professionals who run it like a business and fire any kid who doesn't succeed I'll see your sarcasm and raise you some bitterness

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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:03 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
paid professionals who run it like a business and fire any kid who doesn't succeed


This may cause a sh*tstorm, but if that were the case, at least we wouldn't have people graduating HIGH SCHOOL who still can't read and understand a simple paragraph. *sigh*

((eHugs the ninja kitty))

*snuggles MsB*



~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

Dude, jerking off on my mom is one thing. But banging your grandmother and her roommates? That's like... legendary.

xBox 360 GamerTag: Swinger420

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:19 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Oh, are you sure about that?

I'm beginning to think Zeek's right and those tests are actually trying to measure how well suited 7th graders are for positions within the US job market.


Knew you could get it if I typed slowly and used small words.


And yep MsB crazy lady hit me. It's not too bad. I'm hoping it won't cost much of anything to repair cause for some reason I'd feel bad for her if she got some huge bill out of it.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:35 AM

MSB


ok ..Zeek you are really nice:)HUGS


One can only hope Jimi...

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 9:47 AM

HELL'S KITTEN



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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:10 AM

MSB



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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:31 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Wierdness on the thread.

Good news: I got my SP1.

Bad news: Cloverfield closed LAST night and now I might just get some movies from Ballbuster and call it a night.


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:35 AM

MSB


Ohh happy dance on the gun, but so sorry about Cloverfield

In a joyous moment for me, I don't have to tutor tonight which means I can go shopping and then go to the gym and go home!!! I might actually get sleep tonight ( which I really should)

Hey I have a new ponder.... what holiday would you omit?? Is there one particular holiday you don't like and would rather not celebrate???

Personally, never really gotten the point of Thanksgiving... ok so some people showed up and didn't starve despite their stupidity... we celebrate that now??

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Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:43 AM

HOBBLEIT


Apart from Valentine's day I would omit Hallowe'en.

Never saw the point of that.

******************************

http://www.myspace.com/muddy_waters

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:52 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Arbor Day (stupid hippies)


Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:02 PM

ZEEK


I don't really mind any of the holidays. I want as much time off as possible. So, even if it's for something stupid then more power to em.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:47 PM

DANCINGNEKO



*slips in, unable to let the whole NCLB fisco slide*

*gives a warmfuzzy to NVG*

*gives Hersheys Hugs for everyone to enjoy*

*attempts to persuade Penguin to come back and visit with a bowlful of fresh fish (placed in stasis "borrowed" from the Bar-and-Grill)*

*pauses to hand a properly polished and cooled 'Dew ("obtained" from a certain Bar-and-Grill) to a pretty ninjakitty*

*snerks at ninjakitty's sarcasm*

*gifts MsB a box of martini-infused chocolates*

*bribes DTH with chocolates and an offer to let DTH go Mal-diving*

*giggles at MsB's comments while nodding sadly and gifts the browncoat womenfolk with a pink rose each (MsB, ninjakitty, Rugbug, DTH, Hobbliet, and anyone else missed)*

*adroitly distracts RIMG with a hugbomb and avoids all tacklepounclehuggles and glomps (too much Shampoo from Ranma 1/2 for glompage tolerance)*
*tries to control the laughter at RIMG's idea of running schools as a business, is failing badly*

*rolls eyes at Zeek's comments about NCLB testing to ninjakitty*

*takes a deep breath to throw in .02 plat on the "joys" of NCLB, the "brilliance" of politicians and policymakers who've never spent a day in the classroom, the parents who expect schools to provide everything for the kids in terms of knowledge, morals, and mores* *takes a quick look around*

Summary: I think that all elected officials should be required to spend a school year in the classroom teaching (at the level of an "intern teacher" or student teacher -- 3 classes a day) for a tiny, honorary stipend, under the same conditions that teachers in the classroom have to. Administration should be required to teach a class of students every year also. (Any teacher wanna bet how long before the NCLB will become parent-penalization instead of school/teacher-penalization if this happened?)
We should also either compare ourselves to other industrialized nations on the same level (take the top 50% in middle school and the top 25% in high school), or restructure the system to be similar to those education systems -- where the onus is on the kid. ...So the stress levels of the kids rise along with suicides and assorted stress-levels for students in grades K to 12 -- big deal -- that's what the rest of the world is doing.
Stop blaming the teachers and the schools as the main reason for everything, and put some of the responsibility on those who have the most control -- the parents and especially the kids.

(I see your sarcasm, and your bitterness, and raise you exhaustion, overwork, overwhelmed, and burnt out.)

-----
I have no opinon on holidays, I just hate a particular month (this one)...and those who know me personally know why -- and the irony behind it.
-----
*steps back and vanishes like smoke back into self-imposed exile*

ETA: It was green for a while...huh. Didn't know that when the color control is with by the editor it turns things green instead of gray.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:40 PM

MSB


HUGS and HUGS Neko tightly... Oh sweety it's so good to see you and know that you are at least lurking.... wish I could help:)

Oh and I totaly agree bout the legislative asses.... of course they wouldn't last 4 days with my kids...bet the first time a kid throws a chair at them and calls them the c word they'd run home crying...

HUSG Neko once again for good measure

____________________________________________

Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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Friday, February 15, 2008 2:57 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


mornin' Imponderables.

*doesn't attempt to hug Neko in any fashion, just grabs her hand and kisses the back lightly*

Any holiday that gets me a free day off is ok in my book. :)

*snuggles MsB*



~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

Dude, jerking off on my mom is one thing. But banging your grandmother and her roommates? That's like... legendary.

xBox 360 GamerTag: Swinger420

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Friday, February 15, 2008 5:40 AM

MSB


HUGS Jimi

Ok just let me make it through today and it's all good:)

____________________________________________

Ain't Love GRAND!!!

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