Book the....Reader? by howdyrockerbaby1

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Book the....Reader?

POSTED BY: HOWDYROCKERBABY1
UPDATED: Friday, April 30, 2004 05:37
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Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:01 PM

This is an idea that has been bumbling around in my mind for a while now so i think i'll share it now.

could Shepherd Book be a Reader like River?

In OiS River hears Book say "I don't give half a hump if your innocent or not. So where does that put you" right after she hears Jayne saying "I got stupid, the money was to good" So is it a possibility, that Book was responding in his own head to what Jayne was thinking of?

Another thing that makes me believe this is when Mal brings up the fact that she is a Reader and asks if he could be wrong, Book specifically says that no he's not wrong. Which could be that Book can read the face that she is a reader as well.

I'm still not sure why Book would think something so mean to what Jayne thinks/says. (Many people think book is a 'bad guy' so maybe thats the answer to that?)

anyways...tell me what you think

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 12:28 PM

GUNHAND

Hmmm, interesting. I'm not so sure that Book is an actual Reader in the same way that River is. But he's definately every empathic in a normal, non-creepifyingly psychic way.

Now myself I think Book is a Good Man, with the capital letters and all that, now. But I also think he was at some point a Bad Man.

Some of the evidence I've seen for that being:

- He knows his guns, being able to tell a wound came from a 7.62mm, for example, is one thing. Telling the make of rifle it came from shows a deeper understanding of weapons, as in a 7.62mm from an M-14 and one from an AK-47. Same basic caliber but different cartridges and ballistics so even if the entrance wound is that big around it does all manner of different things to a body. That takes either weapons' training of a high order or medical experience. From the way he reacts to wounds inflicted on others I don't think he has medical examiner type doctoring training.

- He knows his Crime. The look that Jayne gives him when he's explaining about the newer model nets like the pirates used in Our Mrs. Reynolds is exactly like the look I gave the screen. As in,"How the hell did he know that?" It's not something that your typical cloistered monk would know much, if anything, about.

- He knows how to read Alliance Fed insigna and can tell which sector he's in and how far out of jurisdiction the Fed was in The Message. Also one of the things about that confrontation is when Book tells him,"No one would much mind if we left you at the bottom of a cliff." you get the feeling that he really means it. Book ain't bluffing there and it's a dramatic change in character from Serenity when he wouldn't allow them to kill the Fed mole. Some people would say he's adapting to life out in the Black, I'm leaning towards the idea that he isn't adapting so much as accepting old parts of his character and using them in synch with his new morality. Also Book is the one that laid out the mole as well, with some Kung-Fu fighting no less.

- Safe. The ID card. That is troublesome, Book clearly has some sort of pull with the Alliance. He doesn't even deny it. Mal asks him if he'd like to tell him what was up, he says he surely would, but he just isn't ready to yet.

- Also in Objects in Space he's mad at himself for not being able to take down Early. Jayne teases him with the line,"Must be embarassing, all those years of monk training and taken out by one bounty hunter" or something close to that and Book says he put up a good fight. I don't think he was being ironical, I think he thought he should have put up a better fight, and then what's he do? Lift weights. Gives me the impression of a man that's not in his prime anymore and finally being shown that, not liking it so trying to work harder.

What's all that have to do if he's a Reader? Well not much, just wanted to establish some of his other skills to say this bit about him being a Reader.

You're right he says specifically that Mal isn't wrong when he says River is a Reader. He may not be one, but he believes OR knows for a fact they exist. Which brings me back to all his other eerie-ass skills. Book is a well trained, well rounded and dare I say Dangerous man. He has all these skills that we assume come from before he was a monk, but y'all know what assume does. So here's my two theories...

1) Book was Alliance, high up and then retreated to the Abbey to attone for his sins. Now that he's "centered" he decides to...and this is right from Serenity..."Walk the World a while." Makes me think of another monk, from Kung-Fu the TV series, which at it's heart was a Western. Shiny huh? I believe his faith in God is real, he's not faking being a Shepard, but he's trying to bring all of what he is and what he's done together to decide if he's a righteous man.

or...

2) Book learned the skills in the Abbey. The Jesuits didn't get the nickname,"Commandos of God" just by wearing funny hats. He could be a highly trained operator who does Church business, walking the Earths and doing good deeds and being the strong right hand in the cause of the righteous, perhaps an instructor called back to active duty because Big Things are afoot. The line that River picks from his head always gave me a creepy Inquisition vibe for some reason. And remember he tells Jayne,"I walk a stricter path." Exactly how strict Shepard? His orthodoxy doesn't seem very strict in a religious sense, but could that mean he follows a dogmatic, hellfire and brimstone sort of order? Could be. I always had the vision of him missing out on Ariel because he needed to go to the Abbey not to study his rock garden, but to report/receive orders from his Order. If this is true, then that Ident card he showed in Safe could either be a forgery given to him by the Abbey, or he could have the 'Verse equivilence to a Papal Legate and that is someone that the Alliance sure as hell wouldn't want dying on their boat.

Whew, that was long and babbly, but those are my theories on Book. I don't think he's a Reader, but he definately has some concrete knowledge that such things are possible from somewhere in his background. I kinda like the Inquisition Kung-Fu Superspy brought out of retirement because Odd Things Are Afoot idea myownself.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 1:53 PM

ZOID

howdyrockerbaby1:

This is my theory (about Book), and I'm sticking to it.

'Book' was formerly known as General Richard Wilkins, the mastermind of the Alliance victory at the Valley of Serenity, on Hera (from DVD set, extras, cut scenes, in which Simon is listening to his e-cyclopedia's entry on 'Serenity'). I believe he was a good, God-fearing man, who believed the Alliance's cause was just.

After the victory, he believed that the Alliance would immediately send battlefield aid to the survivors of that conflict, as the rules of war have dictated since at least the ancient Greeks. I believe he was overruled by his superiors, vengeful and heartless bastards who obfuscated the peace process in order to maximize Browncoat casualties on the planet.

I believe that General Wilkins then resigned his post, joined the priesthood and entered the monastery, in penance for the horrors he unwittingly wrought in the Valley of Serenity.

I don't believe he can forgive himself for his part in the murder of so many valiant men and women, friend and foe alike, even though it was ultimately the decision of his superiors that sacrificed them. He is speaking to himself when he thinks (and River hears) "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not; so where does that leave you?".

Please note that when River 'hears' the other characters' thoughts, they look at her. When Book's thoughts are 'voiced', he is looking down, at his own hands, wielding a knife.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 3:15 PM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE

Quote:
You're right he says specifically that Mal isn't wrong when he says River is a Reader.

Actually, here's the quote:

Quote:
JAYNE: Whoa, back up a second. Are you saying she really reads minds?

MAL: Or near enough. Am I alone thinking along these lines?

BOOK: (beat) No.

All Book said was that Mal wasn't the only one who'd had the idea. Very interesting idea, though.

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 4:52 PM

DELIA

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

Please note that when River 'hears' the other characters' thoughts, they look at her. When Book's thoughts are 'voiced', he is looking down, at his own hands, wielding a knife.

I never noticed that. Wow.

I like your theory about Book, and I really can't wait to see how right you got it.

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 8:43 PM

LEMAT

I am liking the whole Book as a Ninja/Commando idea. I have a feeling this would not be the church's doing, because if they had those sorts of resources, they would be an alternate center of power that the alliance would come down on. Not to say that Book didn't try to maintain some martial arts skills while in the Abbey, but I think he got the core of his skills before he joined the cloth.

Jon

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Thursday, April 29, 2004 11:35 PM

PENSIVEBUFFALO

Here's another clue to his past that hasn't been mentioned in this thread. In Objects in space, someone (malcolm i think), accuses Early of beating up a "preacher".

Early replies quite confidently, "That ain't a preacher". And he says it like we were stupid to ever think he was. The delivery makes me think that Early and book actually KNOW each other already.

That, mixed with the "innocent or not" line at the start of the episode, make a decent argument that Book was once a bounty hunter just like Early. They were probably once competitors, or they may have even worked together.

I figure bounty hunting is something a man of god might be able to justify. You don't have to kill people, just collect them. The targets are usually bad people anyways, in theory. But however good the intentions, that kind of work would probably begin to erode your morals eventually. Your tactics would get dirtier every job, and before long your saying things like "I don't care whether you're innocent or not, so where does that put you?". Eventually you take a hard look at yourself and don't like what you see, so you quit taking jobs and go back to the abbey. That's my picture of Book's past.

It's a longshot, but considering the racial coincidence, it's not entirely out of the question that Book could even be his father. I doubt Joss whedon would do something so cliche, though, so I can't get behind that theory.

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Friday, April 30, 2004 2:17 AM

ZOID

PensiveBuffalo:

As Early states, being a bounty hunter is disreputable. How would Book's identity card get him preferential treatment aboard an Alliance military cruiser by revealing that he's a bounty hunter/assassin/crime lord?

I think he was a General (see above), but I'll also buy that he was once an officer of the law. He's never been evil, 'cause evildoers don't get "Take this Man to the infirmary at once!", when they were about to get the 'let him exsanguinate in space, we don't care' routine. If he was a spy -- as others have suggested -- his ident card wouldn't have revealed it (standard spy stuff, there); "007, if you're caught, Her Majesty's government will deny any knowledge of your existence" sort of thing.

He was a (high ranking) soldier...

Respectfully,

zoid
P.S.
How'd you like the gratuitous use of 'exsanguinate'? Pretty cunning, huh?
_________________________________________________

(Of River) "Little Sis? I could see big things for her all along. Her and her brother both. I always knew they'd be worth something, y'know?"

- Jayne Cobb, Game Warden and co-proprietor, "Cretaceous Park", Hera; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Friday, April 30, 2004 2:52 AM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE

Quote:
Early replies quite confidently, "That ain't a preacher". And he says it like we were stupid to ever think he was. The delivery makes me think that Early and book actually KNOW each other already.

I never put much literal stock into that line (although I'm not sure that's what you're arguing, other people certainly have, in other threads), given that Early also, in response to Simon's "So you're a bounty hunter, then," said, "That ain't it at all." Early seems to think on a separate plain of existence, and when he was fighting Book, Book's "shepherd-ness" had very little to do with it. Book's presumably violent past, though, had plenty to do with it.

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Friday, April 30, 2004 3:05 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I don't think Book is a reader in the sense you mean, but I do believe he is intuitive, possesses an analytical mind, and is adept at reading body language and behavior. He obviously has quite a bit of experience in hand to hand combat (look how easy he disarmed & subdued Dobson in "Serenity"), has knowledge of firearms (he was calm under fire and very accurate w/ the kneecapping in "War Stories"), and has knowledge of many things a shephard probably shouldn't (like the net in "Our Mrs Reynolds").

I am thinking that Book was some sort of operative or special agent for the Alliance. That would work in well w/ "the operative" on the casting list for the movie wouldn't it?

When Early tells Simon "That ain't no shephard", I think he meant that Book was not always a Shephard & was not what he might appear to be. This was another little teaser from Joss, hinting at Book's past while keeping us guessing.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, April 30, 2004 5:37 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by LeMat:
I am liking the whole Book as a Ninja/Commando idea. I have a feeling this would not be the church's doing, because if they had those sorts of resources, they would be an alternate center of power that the alliance would come down on.

Random thought that just occurred to me:

While back we had a "What religion is Book?" thread (I didn't post, but I read it). People raised the point that, since Firefly 'verse culture is a blend of Western and Eastern, maybe Book's denomination could be a blend of Western Christianity (ignoring issues of Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, whatever), and Eastern Buddhism/Confucianism/Taoism/Whateverism.

So, Book's a monk, who has advanced arms training, knows martial arts, and has a working knowledge of crime; a ninja/commando. The "ninja" bit is what got me thinking.

Maybe he's some kinda space-Shaolin.

Note that, while he has no aversion to using force, he only tends to use necessary force.

Remember what (IIRC) Master Kan says in Kung Fu: The Series. Something about frightening (threatening to leave that rogue cop at the bottom of a cliff) before you hurt, hurting (K.O.ing Dobson) before you injure, injuring ("kneecaps") before you maim, maiming before you kill, killing only when necessary.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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