Ran into a guy from Fox at the airport by biggestdamnhero

I might have been a little more diplomatic with that myself...but he DID play the 'bulls**t' card, so I can't fault the response.

Fingers crossed for Dollhouseisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:36 AM

I'm going to buck the trend even further and express regret that you did it this way. Like as not the guy didn't work at Fox when Firefly was canceled. You've only perpetuated the notion that Browncoats are a pushy, rude, fanatical lot.

Being nice to the guy and telling him a bit about the good will ( for goodness sakes, mention CSTS!! ) and the avid love that the FF/S fans still have for the product and expressing some heartfelt love for Joss and telling this guy that we'll be watching DollHouse and we're hoping for much success for their network with Joss would have been the way to go for me.

Firefly is gone. Being rude and intimidating a Fox employee isn't going to increase its chances of coming back, in fact it hurts the chances of its coming back.

I'm likely to get flamed for this, but I've been around for awhile now. I love this 'Verse with all my heart but the tactics that have already gone before, being rude and vengful BC's, petitions, talking of trying to pay for it ourselves, etc. are not going to work. Not anymore. Period. Frankly nothing will work but time and money. Making new fans, buying new products, watching new shows that involve Joss and our BDH's, watching genre tv will have an effect.

And we have to wait for the moment when serendipity comes together again with the right combo of Joss' interest, our BDH's availability ( although from what I've read out there it's likely to be something new in the 'Verse having nothing to do with the original crew ), money from a studio, the right medium ( webisodes? Direct2DVD movie? miniseries? animation? ( a la Star Wars ), reincarnation in a completely different realm ( a la BSG )etc. We have to have someone on the inside willing to help us too. Joss is now on the inside of Fox again. Fox still holds the rights to Firefly. See what I'm getting at?

In a battle in a war there are many elements working all at the same time. Sometimes the soldiers have to be brave, sit still, do what they're supposed to do when they need to and wait for the next order. We've not received any orders except to hold. We can recruit...that's the fun part. We can be good to our fellow friends... even better.

I'm holdin' til Mal gets back. And I'm being kind to Fox execs and anyone else I know can do us some good.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

I'm holdin' til Mal gets back. And I'm being kind to Fox execs and anyone else I know can do us some good.

Well said, FM. I'm for mending bridges also- thanks for pointing this out.

Not on the Dark Side Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:41 AM

BOOKREADER

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I would have quoted The Operative at him.

"You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords."

And then given him a creepy little grin and maybe gently leaned in his direction...

Moving down the bar is nice, but I am aimin for that change-of-underwear moment.

Heaven help the F*X exec who winds up catching a certain, particular cab from DTW...
Meh heh heh.

-F

Nothing like making the people who *MIGHT* be able to bring us more of the 'Verse think we are nothing more than deranged lunatics.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:47 AM

BOOKREADER

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

I'm likely to get flamed for this, but I've been around for awhile now. I love this 'Verse with all my heart but the tactics that have already gone before, being rude and vengful BC's, petitions, talking of trying to pay for it ourselves, etc. are not going to work. Not anymore. Period. Frankly nothing will work but time and money. Making new fans, buying new products, watching new shows that involve Joss and our BDH's, watching genre tv will have an effect.

Thanks for bringing some much needed rationality to this discussion. You and a few others seem to be the only ones who understand that this guy probably had zero to do with Firefly's cancellation and you can buy ill will just as easily as you can good ill. The guy at the bar bought us a lot of ill will.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:49 AM

Thanks for sayin' Chris. *hugs*

All wars have to come to an end.
Fighting has to cease and peace has to be met.

Our one champion at Universal, Mary Parent, no longer works there. Uni would seem to be a dead end street for more of FF/S.
Therefore our eyes should turn to Fox. Joss' sure did.

There is opportunity for us with Fox and Joss that hasn't been there since FF's cancellation. Not yet, not for a long while, but it's there. Our role is to find some really wonderful way to wait and hold and let them see that we're all still out here.

I think we have a really good start with CSTS and all the other charities and fan functions that we all do.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BookReader:
Thanks for bringing some much needed rationality to this discussion. You and a few others seem to be the only ones who understand that this guy probably had zero to do with Firefly's cancellation and you can buy ill will just as easily as you can good ill. The guy at the bar bought us a lot of ill will.

Just sayin' what I think, but I'm glad you chimed in.
Thank you!

I think the BC's are in a unique position right now.
The fandom is fading, there's nothing new and we're either filled with bitterness or apathy or disinterest. Now's the time to refocus on what we're all about. We're a group of people with a lot of passion, passion that could be harnessed to do a lot of good. We can't get Firefly or Serenity back. That's impossible. But we can spread the word about the show we love and the community we strive to make better and we can let TPTB know---with pride and goodness--- that we're still here. Willing to spend money, hoping for more.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

Therefore our eyes should turn to Fox. Joss' sure did.

And if Dollhouse is the hit it that just might be, that would also help regarding gettin' more of the 'Verse.

Hopeful Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:02 AM

Originally posted by Chrisisall:

Quote:
And if Dollhouse is the hit it that just might be, that would also help regarding gettin' more of the 'Verse.

IMHO, as a business woman I know that the happier I am with the parts house that I buy parts from, the more likely I am to buy new parts they introduce me to as well as buying parts they've revamped or improved upon. Savvy? ( sorry, it's one of my favorite words from Captain Jack...)

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:03 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh grow a sense of humor, willya.

YOU never mentally yanked someones chain to see how they'd take it ?
Please.

Although the very best response I ever got was an Amway exec once..
"I'll give you points on presentation and dramatic effect, but the eye twitch thing is just overkill, you're trying too hard here, son."

I bought that guy a drink when we got done laughing about it.

-F

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh grow a sense of humor, willya.

YOU never mentally yanked someones chain to see how they'd take it ?
Please.

Although the very best response I ever got was an Amway exec once..
"I'll give you points on presentation and dramatic effect, but the eye twitch thing is just overkill, you're trying too hard here, son."

I bought that guy a drink when we got done laughing about it.

-F

Nope, sorry I haven't. It's not in my nature.
I think I take the chances of Fox doing something for us eventually much too seriously to have been comfortable with "yanking" this guy's chain. And apparently more FF/S is important enough to me to warrant caution if I were to meet a Fox exec.

I'd add something else too. Browncoats have a terrible reputation for being fanatical assholes upon occasion. Whatever happened to deserve it preceded me, but we have it nonetheless. I'd like to see that reputation changed.

I don't lack a sense of humor either. Else I'd not get Firefly at all.

ETA: This is business. I don't "yank" chains when I'm conducting business I want to win at.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:12 AM

GOSSI

This rant an exec was so ill advised for many reasons.

Point 1 - the FOX development people, Joss is currently working for.

Point 2 - the FOX development execs have changed between 2002 and 2008. This guy had nothing to do with Firefly.

Point 3 - If you want more Firefly, the people who have the power to do it - the ones with the money and the legal rights to the property - are 20th Century Fox.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:19 AM

VERTIGO

Quote:
Originally posted by biggestdamnhero:
I was in the Charlotte airport a few days ago. I was at the bar sitting next to an older businessman, and made a comment about what was on the news(Fox). He commented he works for Fox. I was like "right" "OK", "whatever", and "I'm with NASA". He produced his business card. His title was senior developement something, if I recall. I gave it back to him, and asked how things were going. He stated alright. I commented that I no longer watch Fox over the Firefly debacle. His demeanor changed, and stated that wasn't Fox's fault. He said the Fox cancelled the show over ratings. I countered it was Fox who aired it out of order, preempted by baseball, 9 episodes, bad time slot, etc. I then stated I knew that Fox "deep-sixed" Firefly from the moment they aired it. Every Browncoat knows the details. I stated that Fox has made nothing but garbage since, and I was behind Joss 100%. He got upset, and said "excuse me", and moved down the bar. TAKE THAT FOX! BROWNCOATS ARE EVERYWHERE.

"They're whores"..."I'm in"!

you sir, are a genius!

Shiny.

http://fireflyseriesrp.proboards104.com">

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Vertigo:
you sir, are a genius!

Shiny.

I'd like to suggest a self questioning session if you will?

Suppose the exec was on his way to meet with higher up execs after a particularly grand meeting with Joss and his feelings were pretty good about anything Joss did. Suppose he had the opportunity to recommend that Fox execs higher up than he pay attention to Joss' stuff, even former stuff. That that way might lie money and good ratings. But he was accosted at the airport by someone who made him feel exactly the opposite about Joss and Joss' fans and stuff and that now his feelings had totally changed. In fact, he felt like recommending that Fox not even pursue much with Joss because his fans were intimidating, ill-informed and pushy. Therefore any discussions about reviving Firefly would be off the table permanently. Would you still consider him a genius?

I'm not saying that this is so... it's likely not at all. But what if it were?

Each one of us speaks for the larger whole and represents us all.
Is this what we want seen and heard? Really?
Do we want our chances improved or harmed?

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:31 AM

VERTIGO

Alright, i get the picture.
i just found it amusing.

Shiny.

http://fireflyseriesrp.proboards104.com">

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:32 AM

Thank you, FollowMal. I wanted to say pretty much exactly what you have, but couldn't get the words together.

I hate Fox as much as anyone, but being antagonistic to a guy trying to have a quiet beer will get us one thing - enemies. This fandom needs friends. What an opportunity this might have been to get a Fox exec to think well of us Browncoats.

*sigh*

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:36 AM

GOSSI

Mal4Prez, is that Nathan playing Alan's guitar? Where on earth did you get that from?

And yes. If anybody else from here happens to run into a Fox exec, here's what might be a good thing to say - that you loved Firefly, that you own the DVD, and that you'd love more.

I'm serious. That would do more good than anybody here can possibly imagine.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:41 AM

*sigh* Yes, opportunity missed.

Does anyone remember the scene in "The Big Red One", after the crew of soldiers we're "with" in the movie have shot the German soldier and then they hear that the war is over? What does their beloved sergeant do but order them to help him keep the guy alive!

Yup, I hate Fox too...but it's time to look at it the way it is. Fox canceled Firefly because the ratings weren't what they wanted. Since they paid Joss and company to make it and they owned the rights to it, that was their prerogative. If Joss could go back and work for Fox, I can give them my support and viewership and hope that encourages them to do more stuff with Joss. More stuff with Joss is good in it's own right... if it leads to more FF, I'll be a really happy Browncoat!

Since I can't have that yet....
Mal4Prez-I shall ogle your avatar instead.

Very nice.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:42 AM

BOOKREADER

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I hate Fox as much as anyone, but being antagonistic to a guy trying to have a quiet beer will get us one thing - enemies. This fandom needs friends. What an opportunity this might have been to get a Fox exec to think well of us Browncoats.

*sigh*

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

I love Fox, they gave us Firefly. I hate what some at Fox did five or six years ago in their handling of Firefly.

Bottom line, Fox is a business. At the time there was not sufficient interest in keeping Firefly on the air and the poor ratings reflected that. Today just might be a different story. It is best to keep that in mind when dealing with the folks that might see fit to give Joss another go at the 'Verse. (The last was not directed at you but the others who thought it all manner of hi-larious to lose friends and alienate people who might help us in our cause. Always remember, you never get a second chance to make a first impression.)

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Gossi:
Mal4Prez, is that Nathan playing Alan's guitar? Where on earth did you get that from?

Yep - Nathan playing Alan's guitar after the Mutant Enemy strike day last December, taken by a fan trying not to be stalkerish but doing it anyway. By which I mean me LOL!

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:50 AM

MIRAMEL

Just gonna think out loud (er... out written?) for a minute here. As seen above, my initial reaction to this story was "right on!", but on consideration, followmal certainly raises a relevant point.

But I ask- would one random fan spewing praise really do that much good? They know we're here, they know we're fanatical and that we want more. Sure, they arguably don't know it well, as evidenced by the lack of continuation, but surely one random friendly fan wouldn't tip the scales.

On the same level, how much 'damage' would such an outburst do? Thing is, it gets the "we're here, pay attention to us" message across just as well as being friendly, maybe more- sure, it pisses them off, but are they more likely to make decisions based on a vague resentment over a rude fan, or based on what brings in the coin? I’m thinking the second. The outburst maybe didn't help, but i would be skeptical that it did much damage, either. And god knows it must have felt good :)

So I guess what I’m getting at is, what sort of fans are we? Sure, I would argue that for the most part we're polite, reasonable folk, and that taking a polite view is maybe the best way to get things done; but does that mean that when confronted with, ah, "the enemy", we just roll over complacently and hope that if we smile prettily enough someone'll throw us a scrap? Just doesn't seem right to me.

EDIT: also, it seems like the guy got awfully defensive. If he wasn't involved with the decision, why not say "yeah, that was handled horribly, I sure wish I’d been involved!" Granted I have no idea how such things work, and maybe there's some sort of Thou Shall Not Speak Ill Of Fox rule or something, (or maybe it's the more widely used those-in-power-shall-not-admit-mistakes rule...) but it seams like he coulda been more endearing too. Why mention that you're from fox just to sound off about your own perfection?

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
~~~~

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
taken by a fan trying not to be stalkerish but doing it anyway.

Whoa. Good stalkin'!

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Miramel:
But I ask- would one random fan spewing praise really do that much good? ... On the same level, how much 'damage' would such an outburst do?

It's been my experience that opportunies arise out friendly relationships, not confrontational ones. I think this is especially true in Hollywood, where getting a part, getting your script read, etc, is all about knowing the right people, and having those people think highly of you.

Quote:
EDIT: also, it seems like the guy got awfully defensive.

Well... when I'm stuck in an airport trying to have a quiet beer, the last thing I want is to defend myself to a stranger getting in my face with accusations.

The exec surely was an idiot to pull the "it's the show's fault the ratings sucked..." line. But here's where a friendly tone, careful words, and maybe a few more beers might have led to enlightenment rather than frigid silence. Maybe the guy's been brainwashed to not know better, to think us fanatics have created excuses for the show's demise. Friendly conversation might have made him consider otherwise, rather than dismissing us even more than he had already.

Chrisisall - I do stalk well, huh?

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:20 AM

MIRAMEL

fair enough, you've convinced me.

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
~~~~

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:06 AM

SIMONF

FollowMal = the voice of reason.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

Chrisisall - I do stalk well, huh?

Yes, very unobtrusive.
I once took a picture of Marina Sirtis at a NY convention, she was signing autographs, and I had to hold the camera high to frame her, but she thought I was trying to get a severe cleavage shot (which I did, but that was not my intention- I swear!!), and she called me a little perv...

Bad stalker Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I once took a picture of Marina Sirtis at a NY convention, she was signing autographs, and I had to hold the camera high to frame her, but she thought I was trying to get a severe cleavage shot (which I did, but that was not my intention- I swear!!), and she called me a little perv...

Photographic Freudian slip?

You're a bad, bad boyisall.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, April 15, 2008 10:34 AM