Ran into a guy from Fox at the airport by biggestdamnhero

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ran into a guy from Fox at the airport

POSTED BY: BIGGESTDAMNHERO
UPDATED: Sunday, June 1, 2008 05:35
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Friday, April 18, 2008 4:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Talie:
I just double checked because I thought my brain must be missing.... but on the commentary for The Train Job - Joss says this at the beginning (may be missing a word here or there - I type fast but not THAT fast)..

The pilot was not aired until the very end of the series and Fox came to us and said hey we want an idea for a new show what if we aired something else first. And then on Friday afternoon, they called us and said Ok, Joss and Tim, we want a script by Monday and it has to be on our desks before we get in in the morning. So we had exactly two days to write an entire show... that introduced 9 characters who had very complicated lives and relationships..
...

You are absolutely right Talie... That's the first thing I thought of when I read his post...

Also, I think during "The Train Job" commentary, Joss says to Tim, "You know what would have been cool? If FOX had shown the pilot first." (Not exact quote and it might have been Tim saying to Joss, can't recall for certain)

So I'm gonna stick to the belief that Joss and Tim aren't lying and that FOX forced the reordering of the episodes...

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:03 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Raycheetah:
And, just to make sure I understand what your saying VERY clearly: Joss and Tim caused the episodes to air out of order? The BDM was greenlit before we fans had time to do anything to influence that decision?

'Cause, I know you're taking a big chance, saying that, and, if I don't want to be burned as a witch for repeating that, I want to be able to back up the truth with some proof.

Still, what we Browncoats believe about ourselves is powerful and important to who we are and what we do, sort of like the folklore that drives a nation. It may not be truthsome, but, it motivates the people to live up to their self-image, their ideal. That's why that "Done the Impossible" mentality keeps Firefly fans in the middle of so many other good things. We may sometimes weary of asking for more of our show, but, it doesn't keep us from sharing it with new folks, nor does it keep us from doing good things, not to get our show back, but, because it's what Browncoats do.

Intelligence and generosity... Along with energy and a little wacky fun... That's what we've built on the mythology of our fandom. I don't see that as such a bad thing, if we can keep our eye on the truth, as well.

-Raycheetah =^[.]^=

Ray,

I in NO way am saying that the Browncoats didn't have ALL to do with the success of the Firefly DVD's and what success the movie did have at the box office. Please note that I also said I have no first hand knowledge of these things having not been here at the beginning. What I have is post after post that I run across written on the OB and on Whedonesque by people who are veteran Browncoats or are admins of sites that have been here since the beginning or posts by veteran Browncoats on new guerrilla marketing sites or posts by old time Browncoats or people I trust ( because I know from knowing them longer term that they're in the business ) talking about these things.

Here are a few refernce posts I ran across in the short amount of time I had to research before going to the dentist....

The thread on Whedonesque announcing the greenlighting of Serenity:

http://whedonesque.com/?comments=3149

Another quote from Simon who is an admin at Whedonesque and who I trust...

The fandom did benefit from Universal, let's not forget that. The studio praised the fans, built up their profile and helped to feed the myth that the fans led to Serenity being greenlit. It wasn't an one-sided relationship by any means.

Simon | October 27, 17:01 CET

I have seen him type this on more than a few occassions.

Here is that thread:

http://whedonesque.com/comments/11718

Please notice in that thread ALL the work that Browncoats talk about doing in the promotion of Serenity and Firefly for the respective studio's benefit.

Here is where Gossi posted on the OB that the eps were not in order because of Tim and Joss...

http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly/messages?msg=39164.186

I trust Gossi... he ran the Uni board for Universal and all of us Browncoats and made serenitymovie.org so that we'd have a home when the Uni board closed. Note please on the above Whedonesque thread's comments that he talks a bit about what he did to promote the film in the UK.

So, Uni greenlit Serenity before the sales of the Firefly DVD's were big, but the huge sales of the DVD's as time went on made them very happy they'd made the deal. Tim and Joss had a hand in deciding how Firefly would be presented on air. Not so hard to understand ( like as not Fox asked them to and they made decisions accordingly ).

My point is...not to tear down what Browncoats have done... but to be clear about what Browncoats have done and what Fox did.

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:21 AM

JONGSSTRAW

My 2 cents on this is that Fox ran the episodes not only out of order, but they pre-empted the thing to absolute death. There was certainly no way that this show could have been watched by anybody other than those few from "Done The Impossible" who were lucky enough, or perhaps "nerdy" enough to read the TV Guide new show guide and were drawn to a Joss show they thought sounded cool. As far as the BDM...again it was Browncoats leading the way. Even before the series was cancelled, the few fans sensed it, and started their on-line activities...e-mailing Fox, taking out ads in Variety, etc. To say that the movie was green-lighted already by Universal is ridiculous. Joss & Tim were like vagabonds...running all around Hollywood searching for an outlet for Firefly. Mary Parent used her position at Universal to pitch the BDM to the decision-makers, but if not for the FAN SUPPORT...as Mary clearly states in Done The Impossible, there never would have been a movie.

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:23 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Talie:
I just double checked because I thought my brain must be missing.... but on the commentary for The Train Job - Joss says this at the beginning (may be missing a word here or there - I type fast but not THAT fast)..

The pilot was not aired until the very end of the series and Fox came to us and said hey we want an idea for a new show what if we aired something else first. And then on Friday afternoon, they called us and said Ok, Joss and Tim, we want a script by Monday and it has to be on our desks before we get in in the morning. So we had exactly two days to write an entire show... that introduced 9 characters who had very complicated lives and relationships..

Tim and Joss refer to "they" whenever they bring up the "aired it first" topic - if it was their decision surely they would have been saying "we"?

SO...according to Joss himself - FOX DID ask for a new ep to be aired before the pilot - not Joss. They also gave them next to no time to write it.

And I'm only going by what I heard here - but weren't the epsiodes also broken up because of something else being on tv - so they weren't on consistently every week - and was there a possible time change in there as well that contributed to the problem?

Just trying to get all the facts lined up here... not trying to argue with anyone. This is the first I've ever heard anyone say it was Joss' idea to air the eps out of order...

You are absolutely right about how the airing of The Train Job vs. Serenity: the Pilot occurred. That has been well documented. I'm not saying that's not so at all. Also the other "show" or special something that pre-empted Firefly on many occasions ( and it was AWFUL the way Fox handled it! ) was the World Series. I've read posts by Browncoats from that time frame saying they couldn't even find the show sometimes!

Gossi's post about the eps being out of order leads me to believe that Tim and Joss had to make decisions about the order to air the eps in because they were pre-empted, they were concerned about ratings and perhaps made decisions about what might get more attention. You see what I'm saying? This is just MHO based upon Gossi's post ( I trust him ) and what I know is done in business generally.

See...we see the pre-emptions, the out of order eps, the canceling, the weird ads that Fox did at the time as criminal actions, why else the harsh response to the guy at the airport and the high fives from folks here? I'm saying it's not criminal from their point of view... it's business. And it was ultimately business to the show runners and actors, etc ... because that's the realm they have to dwell in while trying to keep a show on the air. ( I believe personally that like us, they fell in love with it a little too from reading what they've written since and what they've said. How could they resist any more than us?! )

To many BC's who weren't here at the beginning it's like a far off war that is told with stories and altercations of glory. What the veteran Browncoats did with the Variety ad, the letter and postcard campaigns, the Done the Impossible movie, the art and fun that they made, all of it are amazing! The CSTS screenings are unprecedented!

But I believe after being here for some time that we need to keep perspective...holding a grudge against Fox is way past time to be ended. Knowing what was done and what worked is important to know so we don't duplicate things that have been tried and that failed. Knowing about our fandom's history is important so we know who we are and what we stand for. And what we want to be known for going into the future.

I'm proud of being a Browncoat... I want that pride to continue and grow.

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:31 AM

PENTHOS

Quote:
Originally posted by DigificWriter:
I think a whole lot of you guys are missing one crucial point. This guy didn't just hurt whatever chance might still exist of getting more from the 'Verse, he may have also damaged Joss's standing with the network as a whole, which could lead to really bad consequences for 'Dollhouse'...

While I do agree that an opportunity to gain sympathetic support within the FOX network was not fully exploited. To say that he somehow "hurt" Firefly's and Joss' chances of being picked up is a bit alarmist and unrealistic. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that FOX bases its programming decisions on the social skills of its viewers? Do you think they would really say "This show could make us millions, but we aren't going to pick it up because its fans are too mean"...? I don't. I'm pretty sure that if serial killers had a big enough market share, FOX (and most other networks) would air content specifically geared FOR serial killers.

In other words, let's say "Night of the Living Dead" actually happened. And the world was taken over by Brain-Eating Zombies... You can rest assured that some FOX exec would be trying to develop programming specifically designed for brain-eating zombies... -I mean, other than American Idol.

Anyway, the good news of this story is that a FOX exec (or middle manager) may have learned for the first time that Firefly has die hard fans. He may also have learned that maybe FireFly didn't get a fair shake the first time around. The fact that those two ideas were communicated at all is what is important to me.

Sure you could argue that BiggestDamnHero could have made more headway by being more eloquent. But to say that he hurt the Firefly\Serenity effort seems, well, ridiculous. I'm glad he met the FOX guy. And I'm glad he left a memorable impression on him. Don't much care if it was positive or negative because as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:39 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
My 2 cents on this is that Fox ran the episodes not only out of order, but they pre-empted the thing to absolute death. There was certainly no way that this show could have been watched by anybody other than those few from "Done The Impossible" who were lucky enough, or perhaps "nerdy" enough to read the TV Guide new show guide and were drawn to a Joss show they thought sounded cool. As far as the BDM...again it was Browncoats leading the way. Even before the series was cancelled, the few fans sensed it, and started their on-line activities...e-mailing Fox, taking out ads in Variety, etc. To say that the movie was green-lighted already by Universal is ridiculous. Joss & Tim were like vagabonds...running all around Hollywood searching for an outlet for Firefly. Mary Parent used her position at Universal to pitch the BDM to the decision-makers, but if not for the FAN SUPPORT...as Mary clearly states in Done The Impossible, there never would have been a movie.

I've stated that these thoughts of mine are based upon observations and reading posts from folks all over the 'Verse.

You can look up posts from the first days of the fandom on the OB, you can research these statements on Whedonesque, you can decide for yourself what is true.

Again... in my posts above I state over and over that the fan support was intrinsic to the success of the serie's DVD's and the movie. Their hard work and dedication and love got them both as far as they've gotten. Made it so we fell in love too!

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Friday, April 18, 2008 3:14 PM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Quote:
Originally posted by FaithLovesPurple:
What's done is done--we can't change that by getting all...bendy. Can't we all just get along? :)

Didn't he call for peeps to basically "get balls"? He should enjoy the fortitude. My take:

Ok. Seriously.

Did someone just tell other people basically to “get a life” and stop taking a TV show too seriously and in the very same thread says he boycotts ALL of Fox because of the cancellation of FF? ….and then equated his almost negligible rant on a single exec to some sort of courageous upholding of a “belief”. Followed by more uncalled-for, trollish bashing in the thread. Funny, the exec probably moved because he thought the same thing “get a life”. “Is someone seriously this upset over a show?” No matter how calm u were. I am of the opinion that any Browncoat can handle this situation anyway they want. But, within this thread are just blatant contradictions.

Honestly, I stopped reading after a few posts in here. I AM glad that some of it had turned for the better. I gave the story no validity when his title could not be remembered AND the poster seemed surprised a Fox exec was at an airport. (I was like "right" "OK", "whatever", and "I'm with NASA"?) Are Fox execs like an alien sighting or something? Is he lying? Probably not, but be a bit more descriptive in your posts and you will not have to say things like: “Did you read my post?” (top five quotes at the start of a flame session)

Bottom line. A rant like this is about feeling some sort of empowerment. ...and he admits it may have gone too far. Should he be hanged for it? No. Should he get what he asked for in this thread? Yes. Should the "get along gang" be upset that a difference of opinion came about? No.

Biggest posted this as a rallying cry. Whether he intended to or not. …and in that vein it succeeded with many. But if you want people to stand up for what they believe in, u got it. Many posters who feel strongly about this show and who understand the butterfly effect with its many branches and immeasurable odds. Those with hope. Those with curiosities that feel this guy, no matter how obnoxious or ignorant, could have shed maybe some ray of light on its demise or its legacy, if any. …and more importantly those who know this isn’t a “war” against exec.s. ANY past or present exec. (That’s the science fiction part.) and are willing to write about it here. Clearly, we don’t post every time we tell a stranger to F Off in public.

If FF could be proven and projected as profitable and successful, fans could be raving lunatics with horn-like protrusions and they wouldn’t care.

Oh, about accomplishing nothing, I'm at work, I came here for that.

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:13 AM

AGATSU

Like I said, we got our own Jayne now, and I think it's shiny, though I obviously disagree with his behaviour... but that's sort of my point.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:54 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by biggestdamnhero:
I then stated I knew that Fox "deep-sixed" Firefly from the moment they aired it. Every Browncoat knows the details. I stated that Fox has made nothing but garbage since, and I was behind Joss 100%. He got upset, and said "excuse me", and moved down the bar. TAKE THAT FOX! BROWNCOATS ARE EVERYWHERE.

Thread of the year - LMAO !!

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:16 AM

BOOKREADER

Quote:
Thread of the year - LMAO !!

Yeah, take that guy who had nothing to do with Firefly being canceled but now does work for the company who still owns the rights to the show! Way to piss off somebody who might put in a good word for us! You tell 'em!

Joss has gotten over it, isn't about time we did the same?

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Monday, April 21, 2008 11:54 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

LMAO because it was like Mal going into a bar on that auspicious day, celebrating the defeat of the scumbag independents

Anyhow back on topic
Nobody is going to put in a good word for us at Fox, and even if they do it won't matter squat because the management at the top of Fox hasn't changed over these past years. Fox is about profit not customer service, if you want more Firefly you'll have to go for movies or ask Universal to wrestle more rights from Fox.
Look at a company like Paramount, now the Trek franchise was beaten out for a long time. Ok maybe the original Trek got a hard deal back in the 60s but since then did Paramount at any time pull the rug from under them. No, they brought many movies, spin-off allowed the series to run for hundreds and hundreds of episodes

Quote:
Originally posted by BookReader:

Joss has gotten over it, isn't about time we did the same?

I think Joss can be a genius and Firefly is the best show ever on tv but I don't go around Fox bashing every week. It wouldn't prevent me from watching Dollhouse or Terminator Sarah Connor....but I think Joss sometimes needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Fox is a profit based company and not one that gives a damn about PR or customer satisfaction, once his ratings slump his honeymoon will be over and we'll be hearing the same sobbing once more. Just because we're fans of Firefly or Buffy or whatever he shouldn't expect us to follow him off that cliff.
Joss might be silly enough to return to the same company and have the same old wounds opened up but the rest of us have seen how this dance goes.

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:34 AM

AGATSU

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:

Nobody is going to put in a good word for us at Fox, and even if they do it won't matter squat because the management at the top of Fox hasn't changed over these past years.

...except maybe for the CEO in charge of programming who's been replaced last July.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:19 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

ok maybe I'm being a bit narrow minded

but here's why I think Fox's PR attitude still sucks after the cancellation of Firefly

The Inside axed after a few epsiodes
Family Guy cancelled despite being a massive hit on DVD
Vanished Fox didn't like its ratings
Drive Nathan Fillion series was pulled after four episodes
Stackedlasted a few episodes
The Rich List canceled after ONE EPISODE !!
Killer Instinct binned by Fox

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:19 AM

BOOKREADER

Quote:
Fox is a profit based company...

The nerve of them! Those ev0l bastages! Good thing Universal, Paramount, Time-Warner, Coca-Cola, Wal-Mart, Apple, and every other corporation on the face of the planet care nothing about profits.

Quote:
Nobody is going to put in a good word for us at Fox...

Mary Parent was the only one putting in a good word for us at Universal. Now she's gone and with her went our chances at ever getting another movie. What slim hope we have at getting more of the 'Verse resides at Fox, and in the world of comic books. We need someone at Fox who will put in a good word for us. Not someone who sees Browncoats as obnoxious little trolls.

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:17 AM

PENTHOS

Quote:
Originally posted by BookReader:
Quote:
Fox is a profit based company...

The nerve of them! Those ev0l bastages! Good thing Universal, Paramount, Time-Warner, Coca-Cola, Wal-Mart, Apple, and every other corporation on the face of the planet care nothing about profits.

I don't think the poster was being critical, I believe he was being realistic... What is not being realistic is the mindset that FOX's decision to pick up a TV show is based on the positive or negative attitude of its fans.

Quote:
Originally posted by BookReader:
We need someone at Fox who will put in a good word for us. Not someone who sees Browncoats as obnoxious little trolls.

Sure, again, nice gesture, but expecting this to have an effect is not realistic... I'll reiterate what what's been said, FOX is a profit based company, meaning, the question to FOX execs IS NOT "are the little trolls are obnoxious or not". The question to FOX execs is "How MANY little trolls are there?"... They couldn't care less what our attitude is as long as there are enough of us to make them money.

Unless BiggestDamnedHero is some kind of smooth-talkin, silver-tounged charmer, he's not gonna turn a FOX exec into a Browncoat over a beer in some airport bar.. So maybe we should give him a break. He made that FOX exec aware of the Firefly fan base and the show's mishandling by FOX; isn't THAT's what really matters?

P.S.
-If we really want EXECs inside FOX to push for Firefly, we should come at them sideways... I'd suggest bribery and\or blackmail...

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:21 AM

AGATSU

Quote:
Originally posted by Penthos:
I'd suggest bribery and\or blackmail...

"If you want to see your wife again, accept $100000 in small unmarked bills, or else. No feds."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:38 AM

PENTHOS

Quote:
Originally posted by Agatsu:
Quote:
Originally posted by Penthos:
I'd suggest bribery and\or blackmail...

"If you want to see your wife again, accept $100000 in small unmarked bills, or else. No feds."

LOL, I didn't mean bribe and blackmail the same person...

See, we hire a private investigator to find the FOX execs who are using drugs and cheating on their spouses. Then we blackmail them by saying:
"Do everything in your power to bring back Firefly or else your wife, and the public, are going to find out about your cocaine and hooker habits..."

The other 5% of FOX execs we just need to bribe.

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:39 AM

AGATSU

You're a genuine evil genius, Sir, I salute you!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:41 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Penthos:
Quote:
"Do everything in your power to bring back Firefly or else your wife, and the public, are going to find out about your cocaine and hooker habits..."

This is Hollywood we are talking about. I'm sure all the execs have a cocaine and hooker habit, and what's worse everyone already knows about it.

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Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:35 PM

AGATSU

Now that I know that, I take the "genius" back. Still love you, though.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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Sunday, June 1, 2008 5:35 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Speaking of Fauxnews and hookers, they were re-running that story about a Brothel Owner backing Ron Paul

They must be running out of material

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