Alliance ships as symbol of bureaucratic imperialism? by caoilte

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Alliance ships as symbol of bureaucratic imperialism?

POSTED BY: CAOILTE
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:53
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Sunday, May 9, 2004 10:11 AM

Hi, I'm new to this site and to speculative fandom so apologies in advance for anything a-blunder.

It seems like everyone has some frame-freeze detail of the series they find particularly engrossing, but I seem to be unusual in obsessing over the occasional appearance of an Alliance ship. I've done my best to check the archives but they don't seem to turn up any particular discussion and though my observations may be dwelt upon in the commentary somewhere (I haven't seen them yet) I thought I'd bring it up anyway.

Doesn't it seem VERY VERY amusing to anyone else out there that the single representative of the Alliance to most outlying colonies seems to be spaceships that resemble nothing more so much than Giant Bureaucratic Flying Office Blocks.

It's as if in the future analogues to the India&Colonial Office/World Trade Center/UN Building can fly round the galaxy themselves instead of staying a very distant power rooted to the ground in far off capitals. They become the true essence of "Capital Ships".

It also seems dangerously poignant post 9/11 and the symbolism of attacks on the heart of an influential power through its skyscrapers. You can just imagine the similar public outcry (inside the Alliance) because of massive civilian deaths as one of those capital ships was destroyed by Browncoats or the like.

I wonder if Whedon had plans to take the series in that direction and how close he would have let the imagery of a dying Capital Ship get to pictures of the collapsing World Trade Center.

(ps I don't mean to start any sort of political discussion on contemporary events, I just hoped everyone could be amused by the parallels)

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 10:39 AM

CYBERSNARK

I've been noticing that aspect of their appearance since the first episode, but I never wanted to say anything.

It's kind of a "Joss wouldn't. . . Gorram it, of course he would." reaction on my part.

Hell, those ships have nurseries in them (as per "Bushwhacked"). Kinda a dig at TNG's Galaxy-class space cities that have Kindergarten students running through the halls.

(Yeah, I'm a Trekkie, but a stupid idea is a stupid idea.)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 10:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Joss made a comment as to the design of the Alliance ships on the DVD. He said he wanted to get away from the stereo typical Imperial Battle Cruiser design....long, sleek and flat. He wanted to distinguish these ships in some way, so the clear alternative was to build UP, not out. Come to think of it, kinda reminds me of the design concept of the Nostromo from Alien.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 11:29 AM

CAOILTE

Oh! I don't think it's a stupid idea. Even a nursery seems quite reasonable, afterall plenty of office blocks today have them.

In fact I love the slightly Douglas Adams touch to the whole endeavour. I'm sure its exactly how he'd have imagined a giant space empire spreading its tentacles across the 'verse (only with more burger chains).

The dumb thing about building ships up (in response to the other post) is I'm sure the angular torque stress from forward thrust at one end of a tower would be rather nasty at the other. i think anyway...

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 11:39 AM

GUNHAND

The first time I saw them it made me think to myself,"Oh great the Alliance is run by the IRS." Which in itself is a more scary thing to me at least than having an "evil Empire" like in Star Wars.

But definately gives you a creepy men in grey suits vibe rather than a, somewhat cliched, evil empire (again? yawn) vibe.

I mean sure Stormtroopers may be bad but career bureaucrats? Run for the hills folks, run for the hills fast.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
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around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 6:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Ya know, that angular torque stress issue is EXACTLY what ran through my mind the 1ts time I saw one of the Alliance ships. I says to myself, " Self, how do you reckon they worked out the obvious problem of the angular torque stress on the diffent sides of the structure accounting on the forward thrust and such.... "

I'm sure Joss has SOME explanation....other than " it's just Sci Fi !"

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 7:52 PM

WEERWOLF

I think the stress won't be a problem. The cruisers appear to go 'cruising' on a quite steady speed and have fast short-range ships they can deploy to try and catch anything that tries to run away. Stress would only be a problem at either high acceleration or deceleration, and I don't think the cruisers do that.

Form follows function, I guess. Aparently the object was to get as many Alliance personnel in the problem areas as was possible. The cruisers are more mobile space stations than warships. Getting something with that mass to move quickly would require an encredible amount of energy, regardless of its shape. So why bother at all? The Alliance has an enormous presense in manpower and short range ships wherever those cruisers show up, and the unpredictablity of them would work.

The separate towers make sense in a different way as well, such as ordinary space hazards. A fire in a tower won't take out the entire ship or even limit its function much, since there are what, 4 more still standing?

"If I could make you prettier, I would."

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Sunday, May 9, 2004 11:27 PM

WIZZLER

I don't think it would matter isn't angular stress (and all forces like it - hey I ain't an engineer or even close) related to inertia ? We see serenity turn and high tail it often and assuming the speeds are quite fast then g forces and inertia have been negated somehow. I'll assume since they have artificial gravity then it's just a step away altering that to create inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields (ideas I've stolen from that other show).

Wizzler C.E.O.

"This land pest control" : Keeping Fox execs populations down since 2004

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:44 AM

GHOULMAN

The ships themselves, I believe, are symbolic of Corporate Empire. You know, the sort that runs the world right now! If you were going to symbolize a bureaucracy you would find other symbols associated with it.

See, the thing about sybolizm is that there are certain cues as too what is being symbolized. Not to mention past precident. For example; an Owl usually, if not always, symbolizes wisdom.

That is why the ships look like glass and steel buildings we know today.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:22 AM

34CYGNI

I've obsessed over this a bit, myself...

Best guess is that the design concept grew out of the metaphor commonly used to describe present-day aircraft carriers: "a city at sea." Somewhere along the line in the middle of a long meeting, a hardworking production designer probably tore his eyes away from the pencils embedded in the ceiling tiles and said, "Okay, how about 'a city in space'?"

As for the sci-fi logic of their construction, I expect they're built around small asteroids. Raw material from an asteroid is extruded, so to speak, into the big towers and comm dishes and weapon hardpoints and whatever else, and the caverns hollowed out of the 'roid either house critical systems that need maximum protection during a firefight, or else the ship's reactors are in there and the asteroid is simply used for radiation shielding.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:52 AM

CAOILTE

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
The ships themselves, I believe, are symbolic of Corporate Empire. You know, the sort that runs the world right now! If you were going to symbolize a bureaucracy you would find other symbols associated with it.

Captains obsessed with red tape, doctrine and officialism aren't enough then?

There's nowt stopping corporate empires becoming bureaucracies too you know, although I think in this case (as today) corporations control government rather than represent it.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:36 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ the ships themselves.

Not that you don't make a point.

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Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:53 AM

MCFLY

About the tortional stress issue. I seem to recall seeing a shot of one of the cruisers from behind in one of the eps. (I don't recall which one, sorry). It looks like they have engines both at the bottom wingy portion of the ship, and two near the top of the towers, thus evening out the thrust. I just remember thinking, hey cool, engines on the top... or something to that effect.

I'll see If I can find which episode that shot is in.

Hack the planet!

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