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Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:

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Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.

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Delia posted this on another thread, the one about FTL vs. no FTL, and it got me to thinking -Has the development of technology that can actually do the things we once dreamed of taken away from what originally made Sci-fi great? - Here's my thoughts, forgive me if I ramble, I didnt intend to post today so I didnt get my thoughts organized ahead of time -

Originally, in some of the earliest and greatest Sci-fi, the science of the thing isnt what really mattered, it was the stories that counted- Think back to the stories that the authors you read today were influenced by- War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 1984- HG Wells didnt write The Time Machine with an eye toward what was possible, he wrote it to comment on the nature of human relations - And it shouldnt be read with the goal of figuring out whether or not time travel is possible- Same with Orwell and Big Brother, the focus is on what it means to be a person in a totalitarian society- I've read the book that inspired Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the heart of the book wasnt whether AI was possible, it was about the nature of the soul -

What I'm getting at is that while I think the original Star Trek got it right, the later versions and the modern Sci-fi novel have gotten it all wrong- Aliens, tech, and digital animation have taken the place of human interaction and turned Sci-fi- true Sci-fi - into a freak show- Have a problem in space? Wait for the next gizmo to fix it or alien to swoop in and save the day- Remember what made the first Star Wars trilogy great? It was a human story, about finding who you were, and whether goodness existed in everyone- The latest ones? Slap some Jamaican-sounding aliens in there, who needs to develop characters?
Look at ST:TNG vs. Firefly - In OOGas, the ship breaks down, and there's nothing the crew can do about it- Does someone come to the rescue? Yep, a very bad, bad guy; which causes our beloved captain to get gutshot - True, the ending works out well for FF's crew, but how would ST have dealt with it? In the nick of time, someone on the crew would have figured out how to covert a gizmo (probably something with neutrinos), or called in aliens to help- Now, I grew up watching STTNG, so I'm not saying this to mock the show, I've seen every episode a ton of times-But not once did they ever really build the suspense like FF- With FF, you really feel for the people and what the episodes are trying to say about human interaction (how does Simon put it, out in space how you treat others is where it matters most)-

I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that you dont need aliens and you dont need technobabble to have good Sci-fi- What you need are good stories- It shouldnt matter how a 'gravity drive' works, or whether or not Serenity can go FTL- That stuff is there for the setting, it's not the story[/]- I loved B5, but I didnt give a damn how hyperspace worked, because that wasnt a character, it was just a setting with a neat special effect- I worry that if the BDM hits and Joss doesnt go with the conventions of modern, alien-oriented or realistic techno sci-fi, that the BDM is gonna bomb, because people have forgotten what matters- Let's all make sure we remember what counts-


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He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Originally posted by RocketJock:
If you want to see how to do this sort of thing right, check out Star Trek the Original Series; no long winded explanations of how Warp Drive works, no flashy SFX hyperspace/slipstream/stargate jumps; Warp Drive was a convenient piece of furniture used to move the characters "out there" where the plot could take place. Hell, in the earliest episodes it's fairly obvious that the structures later designated as "Warp Nacelles" were intended to be the sublight/impulse propulsion system (I.E., visible rocket tubes at the ends, a bit of model design later modified/ignored.)

The exact nature of Serenity's propulsion systems was, I think, left sketchy on purpose, to avoid strait-jacketing writers; but Joss is too good a storyteller/overseer to have let it be inconsistent; eventually, after enough episodes turned on the ship's capabilities, a consistent picture of how "Gravity Drive" and "Hard Burn" worked would have emerged. As it is, as fun as these threads can be as intellectual exercises, we're all making a lot of soup out of a single mouse.



"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story)-

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The absolute best episode ever of the original ST (as far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion) was the one with the black/white face guys (dont remember the ep. title)- It made two aliens mimic Earth's race problems, built great characters, and got the point across about what racism and hate do- I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story

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Originally posted by Tracer:
heh, well said sevenpercent

but alas, i have to say the majority of star trek kind of stank. has to be my pet hate :( its just with every iteration with the star trek looniverse you have something even more whacked out than the last. i'm sorry if i'm breaking a load of spock plates with this but i just find it so urgh, star trek just grows exponentially with the tech ideas they adopt, from the first series it was just a warp drive which did some fancy lights. OK so maybe The original and The Next generation won't be going in room 101.

Well maybe most of the eps on TNG where Q made his annoying appearance.. one thing i missed from TNG was the fact Pichard didn't try and flaunt himself with 97% of the female population of the ship...that was Worf's job


but on the flip side, the technobabble makes the Fiction more belivable to the fans, i guess people don't want to hear "that flashy thingy on the spinny thingy has gone" even i would raise an eyebrow, not like i'd get all hot over a compression coil, maybe Kaylee tho.

OK the Aliens, in some sci-fi shows Aliens can add flavour with others it kind of beats it to death with a messy stick the differences between the two?

A well presented alien race is good, excessive alien races gets almost comical,poorly thought out alien races

but on most shows you can see which shows will adopt the we are not alone factor, Firefly strayed away from the alien 'element' (for a time being) as you can figure Joss probably wanted to show 'the people' of the time and dwell like that, else he wouldn't have bothered with people speaking chinese, could've been "flingon" and i dunno people would be wearing Pasties on their foreheads....could anyone see a "verse" like that?

Its all about measures at the end of the day too much spoils it, too little makes it weak. you know when you've got it right.



Michael Dorn is a Pastie God

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Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... ummm... I think either, you typed slower than you though, or you think the way my sister flips channels...

Either way, I'm more or less thinking I can sorta follow you here... basically, you're not too huge a Star Trek fan, right?

I can see that. I grew up with it, and love it, but if I can step away from my childhood memories of it, TOS is REALLY cheesey, and the first 2 seasons of TNG are no better. But, they DID tackle some interesting issues at times, just from an alien point of view, which tends to weaken the human element a bit.

Star Trek, for all its flaws, gave us something new at least. Let's just hope that there's never an incident of Simon directly Mal and Kaylee on how to operate on his brain...

--Jefé The Hat

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"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Originally posted by BadgersHat:
See, the problem with Michael Dorn is, he's got the commanding resonant voice of a Shakespearian-trained actor, but plays it too strong.

Also, when he's up against an ACTUAL Shaksepearian actor (as in, Patrick Stewart), it just shows the flaws more profoundly (like watching a crappy old VHS tape on a plasma-screen TV...)



--Jefé The Hat

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"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Originally posted by annik:
An ongoing beef I'm having lately with more recent authors is the apparent trend for people with a large string of numbers after their names to write detailed scientific dissertations under the guise of fiction.

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