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I don't know if lines cut from scripts are considered canon or not but in the Heart of Gold script there is a clue to Zoe's past that got cut.

It's the end of the arguement/discussion she and Wash are having about a baby.


WASH
And this beautiful baby of ours, you
don't mind that it's going to grow up
on a spaceship?

ZOE
Worked fine for me.

I've always found it interesting that Zoe grew up on a ship and ended up fighting for the independents. Seems to me most people who weren't tied to a planet would consider themselves somewhat above and beyond concern over the war....

Anyway, don't know if it's canon but it does give some background to Zoe.

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Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.

Some thoughts: "Warren" isn't canon, that I know of, and I pay really close attention to all things Wash and Zoe. Somebody put it up on the IMDB over a year ago and now that's a reference, when there's no show/script reference that confirms it. Same for Jerry Lee (tricky!) and Washburn. Nathan Fillion referenced "Washburn" and I'm inclined to believe him, but he specifically left out whether or not it was a first or last name. I'm not saying it won't come to pass that Warren is the name of names, but it's not canon now and I'm irrationally vehement about it.

I'm also inclined to agree with Astriana about the necklace, with one caveat: she tranfered meanings as part of transfering her loyalty. It was a symbol she chose before or during the war, that meant loyalty for her. As she transferred that loyalty from one thing to another, she changed the meaning of the necklace. I can see her telling Wash "this is an important symbol to me. I have had it for a long time. And now it is significant because I say it binds me to you." It's a little like wearing your grandmother's wedding band or something-- it's not specifically for you, but you imbue (dun dun dun) the item with your meaning.

I think the critical event is the war and specifially, the Battle of Serenity. If Mal were commanding some vast number at the start and down to just the hundreds by the time they were rescued, I'd think it would be instinctual level coping that would keep Zoe loyal to him. I know that's not a precise enough answer. Don't you just ache to see the scene specifically-- with all the blood and gore and tears and heart? I do.

As for where she's from-- she's from space. I think that that is so interesting about her. Even though we don't know what ship, where, when or anything, she claims she grew up fine on a space ship. Which could, not coincidentally, be one of the reasons she stays with Mal-- he seems very up front about getting a ship and getting out into the black. Perhaps, among other things, she sees sticking with him as an opportunity to be a spacer again.

I'm going to keep thinking about her being the one they'd need to watch out for. My first reaction is gut, like, 'naw, Zoe doesn't play.' But then little molecules of doubt creep in; she's quiet and deadly.

Very excellent thread.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:

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Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.

Glad to see you post Sarahetc. It is has been awhile since I saw a post from you & was wondering where you had gotten to.

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As a "grown up on a ship" datapoint: note how impressed Zoe was with Wash's piloting ("That's my man") when they went back to rescue Mal from Niska.

Now, on one hand, she knows more about flying than, say, Jayne (to know how impressive it is what Wash was doing). OTOH, she doesn't seem so familiar with it that she'd be jaded.

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Originally posted by zoid:

Cybersnark, et al:

Der 'snark wrote:

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As a "grown up on a ship" datapoint: note how impressed Zoe was with Wash's piloting ("That's my man") when they went back to rescue Mal from Niska.

Now, on one hand, she knows more about flying than, say, Jayne (to know how impressive it is what Wash was doing). OTOH, she doesn't seem so familiar with it that she'd be jaded.

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Dude/ette (sorry, there are no hints on your Member Profile page), you totally reminded me of something! Who flies the shuttle when Mal rendezvouses (checked that one with Merriam-Webster) with shady types at 'the corner of No and Where'? Zoë does. She's a pilot. Remember in "War Stories" Wash mangles the shuttle's launch sequence so Zoë can't access it.

Here endeth the interruption...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."

- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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True she does fly a shuttle, but so does Inara and Mal.

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Mal does fly a shuttle though in Trash, when he and YoSaffBridge leave Serenity to go to the floaty island he's the one flying it not her.

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Speaking of Book, he knows where the engine subsystems are in Serenity and also in The Message he does a pretty good job of running scans of the planet to find the Alliance base and spectrum band analysis to tell that Womack hasn't sent any messages.

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Originally posted by WhooDahn:

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Speaking of Book, he knows where the engine subsystems are in Serenity and also in The Message he does a pretty good job of running scans of the planet to find the Alliance base and spectrum band analysis to tell that Womack hasn't sent any messages.

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I always though that scene was very telling about Book's past. While the rest of the crew is wondering if they are going to get bombed, Book is running scans. He is very cool in a fire fight.



"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Originally posted by zoid:
Fellow Browncoats:

Good morning. It's Monday, the first day of my 'weekend' and for most of you, the first day back at the grindstone. I hope it goes tolerably.

As I reflect on Firefly -- something I do a lot, obviously -- it occurs to me that perhaps the greatest mystery of the show is the one not readily apparent as a mystery. I'm talking about the motivations and history of the show's one steadfast character, Zoë Warren. I get the feeling that Joss might possibly be pulling a little sleight-of-hand here. Please allow me to digress slightly, in order to illuminate my assertion.

My father, when I was a lad, used to 'rassle' around with me, much to my childish delight. He'd get on his knees to equalize our heights and then 'slap-box' spar with me, ostensibly just playfully; but those lessons a father teaches a son invariably prove useful in real-life situations later. While it may seem like I'm meandering a bit, here's the point: He'd strike a fighting stance, then say, "You see this hand? You see this hand?" bluffing with his right; then he'd sneak in with his left, delivering a light tap to my cheek and say, "This is the one you've gotta watch out for."

So maybe, by showing us all those other gravid mysteries of Book and River, Blue Hands and Reavers, Joss is saying, "See this hand?". What if Zoë -- seemingly the least mysterious character on the show -- is the "one you've gotta watch out for"?

People have noted the ostensible wardrobe mistake of having Zoë wearing the 'wedding necklace' prior to having met Wash. Is it possible that it was not a mistake at all? Perhaps she was married and widowed previously, still wearing the necklace from mourning, or from a desire to avoid unwelcome advances. Back in the day, I knew lots of women who -- though unmarried -- bought a wedding ring to wear to clubs so they could drink in peace with their friends (pick-up lines are the most disgraceful things about the average male, not so?). I've also been giving some thought that the necklace may symbolize a different form of bondage than marriage, and that her continued wearing of it is a symbol of her hard-won freedom from that bondage. But it's probably just a silly notion of mine; there's certainly no evidence to support.

There's more to the 'Zoë Mystery'. Why is she so faithful to Mal? We may reasonably presume that the horrendous circumstances of the Battle of Serenity Valley have formed a bond between them. But what was the crystalizing event that made them inseparable? Many men at arms have been through the fire together, but few will form so strong or lasting a bond. Whatever that critical event was, how will it affect future actions, and ultimately the outcome of the series?

We are given glimpses of most of the other characters earlier homes or formative years. We know Mal was reared on Shadow, on a large cattle ranch. We know Wash's original home was a place so smoggy (cough, Los Angeles, cough) that he became a pilot just to see the stars. We know that River and Simon grew up in affluent surroundings on a hospitable planet. Conversely, we know that Jayne was brought up poor and rough on some backwater chunk of matter. We know Kaylee grew up on a similar backwater, the mechanic daughter of a mechanic. We may reasonably assume that Inara was initiated on Sihnon at a very young age, being educated in Guild schools until she came of age (in the Firefly 'verse what, 12?) and then became a sexual servant exclusively to the rich and powerful of society (ponder on this, if you will). We know virtually nothing of substance about Book's formative years, because that's his mystery ("See this hand?").

With Zoë however, why do we know nothing more about her childhood/formative years? Joss seems to have gone out of his way to deliver evidence of even Jayne's and Wash's; why not Zoë's, if everything's on the up-and-up? I've got some suspicions, but no proof, so I'll not further enumerate them, for now. But that's precisely what I'm talking about: Zoë is a mystery with no clues whatsoever. Perhaps there's nothing mysterious to tell. If so, why the conspicuous silence on any details of her past?

Could it be that Zoë's mystery is the most startling of them all? I think only Joss knows, at this point; that it has repercussions not only in Zoë's actions, but perhaps in some of Mal's predilections, as well, if you catch my drift... In the words of my father, "This is the one you've gotta watch out for." Perhaps.


Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"History may say I saved River; but it's not like that. No, that's not it at all. I saved my sister."

- Simon Tam, M.D., husband and father of 4, Jiangyin; from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
As another random thought:


It occurred to me that Zoe might be a survivor of some War-era youth training program. It'd certainly account for her overall badassitude and by-the-book personality, as well as her utter devotion to Mal. It might even explain her marriage to Wash, whose reckless fun-loving personality are the exact counterpoint to just about everything she's been brought up to be. Wash liberates her.

Now, child soldiers doesn't seem like something the Independents would try, unless the war got really desperate. The Alliance, OTOH. . .

Possibly Zoe was a soldier who somehow developed some sense of morals. Maybe even outright sympathy for the Independents. Maybe Mal (or, more accurately, Mal's unit) rescued her, and she repaid that the only way she knew how --total loyalty to her Superior Officer.

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Originally posted by Sarahetc:

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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:

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Originally posted by Sarahetc:
Wonderful Zoe questions. The surprise-left theory is very juicy.

Glad to see you post Sarahetc. It is has been awhile since I saw a post from you & was wondering where you had gotten to.

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Hey, thanks. I still read every day, but I don't have much to add to most threads lately. And I'm of the "if you can't say anything interesting, don't say anything at all" school of posting.

I've thought some more about Zoe and what I can come up with is that the war has been the most significant event of her life. It now informs even what happened before the war.

At the same time, I can't get over the honest, loyal and straightforward hurdle. Like I said before, the "surprise left" theory is super juicy and fun to think about, but it seems contrary to her fundamental Zoe-ness that she would perpetrate anything against Mal. That does not take into consideration any traumatic events that might happen in the future, but at this point, she's Zoe. I think we don't know much about her because she doesn't want us to know much about her.

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Originally posted by Elwoodmom:
>>Remember, her marriage to Wash is recent and she didn't even like him upon first meeting. So Wash is a changing element for her... too bad we didn't get to see what changes Wash might have brought out of Zoe.<<

That's the one thing about the series that never made sense to me. How did she get from not liking Wash to marrying him?? No hints, nothing about what made her do an about-face.

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Originally posted by insight spinner:
And Cybersnark, I LOVE badassitude!! Can I borrow that word?

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Originally posted by Astriana:
You really outta read some of Sarahetc's fanfic about them. She really captures how it could have come about. All of her Wash/Zoe stuff is truly incredible.

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:

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Originally posted by insight spinner:
And Cybersnark, I LOVE badassitude!! Can I borrow that word?

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Of course. I'm pretty sure it's mine; I used to use it on the Andromeda newsgroup (to define what Tyr lost when the show went pear-shaped).

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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