How much would Zoe hold Mal responsible? by Aliasse

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

How much would Zoe hold Mal responsible?

POSTED BY: ALIASSE
UPDATED: Saturday, April 25, 2009 21:55
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Friday, April 24, 2009 11:58 PM

Once again: Okay, I'm a really long-time lurker and now fic poster but I've never much read, contributed to or posted discussion threads, so I hope this is how you do it. Also, sorry if I'm going over ground that's really well covered.

My own opinion is that she would have a very complicated set of thoughts and feelings about this that would come into play in different ways and different times.

Over to you!

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:30 AM

AGENTROUKA

Not nearly as much as she probably blames herself.

I really don't think Zoe blames Mal at all, actually.

Wash wasn't forced to go to Miranda, he chose to go, just like she did. And before, he stayed with their lifestyle because of Zoe, not because of Mal.

And I'm pretty sure that Zoe wouldn't lie to herself and pretend that Mal forced her to stay, that she doesn't need him as much as he needs her.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:21 AM

KATESFRIEND

After surviving a brutal war with Mal, I think Zoe would have a very different way of coping with death than any of us who haven't seen death at such a scale. After that much death, I think her holding Mal or River responsible would just be petty, and unworthy of the human values she represents in a character. But what Joss would have done with her character afterwards is the more interesting question. After last night's Dollhouse, he still amazes me.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 6:25 AM

GILLIANROSE

Really great insights from Kate and La Rouka - I will chime in with some of the stuff I rambled on about at your latest story, Ali. I think that grief isn't a consistent, easily understandable emotion, and that Zoe will probably have moments of blaming Mal, River, and herself most of all. I would be disappointed in storytelling that didn't have Zoe take a long time to sort this all out and come to some kind of acceptance of Wash's death. But she has a soldier's understanding of risk, and all of her combat experience, and I think that would ultimately help her stop trying to assign blame to something that, sad as it is, they all knew was a risk when they agreed to go to Miranda.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:00 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Don't forget the foreshadowing during the bank heist scene. Zoe told the gun-wielding man that a hero was someone who got other people killed.

I think Zoe knew that all of their days were numbered, it was sheer luck that Wash was in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Reavers fired that big spike. She'll grieve for Wash, but she won't blame herself or Mal.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:02 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

PS: I think it is wrong to put such spoilers in a thread title. Yeah, I know the BDM is over three years ago, but there are still people just now discovering Firefly who have yet to see the movie.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:03 AM

PLATONIST

Agree with all that's been said. Zoe's not one to blame anyone for her choices, and Mal did give them an out, twice, so no I don't think she'll blame anyone but herself.

I do think there is a possibility, at first, that she may come to resent Simon's and River's inclusion into Mal's newly fabricated family, especially when she sees River in her hubby's pilot seat, and Simon in Kaylee's bunk, Zoe's only human after all:) Her relationship with Mal may change, also, in her grief she could become reckless and angry at life and "go off half cocked" becoming difficult for Mal to control and predict.

Inara's presence could also cause her to question just what her place is in Mal's little family and life. She may seek her own path for a while.

Oh, it would be so interesting to see what Joss would do with her now… chants “we want more” more than once!

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Mal gave everyone the chance before going to Miranda to get off then. From the looks of what was around them , the bodies of their friends at Haven, it was all too clear how serious things were, and how things might end up.

All Mal did was go to great lengths to tell the story of Miranda. And it needed to be told, Zoe would fully understand that. They all did. I'd say that Zoe , with her background, might view this as another mission, which needed to be carried out. And sometimes, not everyone makes it back from a successful mission, as I'm sure both her and Mal would know.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
PS: I think it is wrong to put such spoilers in a thread title. Yeah, I know the BDM is over three years ago, but there are still people just now discovering Firefly who have yet to see the movie.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

Yeah. Good point. Though it might be common knowledge NOW who Luke Skywalker's father was, it's still preferable to have folks find out such things on their own.

*NOTE* - You CAN still change the title of your post, if you click 'edit' down at the bottom of your page.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:53 AM

ALIASSE

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
PS: I think it is wrong to put such spoilers in a thread title. Yeah, I know the BDM is over three years ago, but there are still people just now discovering Firefly who have yet to see the movie.

Gulp. Sorry. Just didn't think of that. AND this reply doesn't look right. I'd change the title of the thread but I don't know how.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 8:04 AM

TRAVELER

You took the words right out my mouth Aurator. I agree with you 100%.

After Jayne asks Mal how many survived Serenity Valley, it was Zoe who told Jayne to leave the room.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 2:38 PM

BYTEMITE

One can say they know they're expecting to go into battle and die, but when you lose someone close to you (like a husband), remembering that would seem to me to take second priority to grieving. Even past history and previous relationships can fall by the wayside.

And grieving can involve denial and blame. Zoe unaffected may seem more in character, but I think that characterization might dehumanize her.

Aliasse: I got it, although the original title will still be visible in the thread.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:51 PM

ALIASSE

The key word you've used here for me, Bytemite, is 'humanity'. I agree so much that only allowing Zoe to operate within the somewhat 'perfect' characterization that we get of her doesn't allow her to respond to Wash's death as a real person would. It's not that I necessarily disagree with the assessments above, but these subtract out from Zoe's reaction what you say, that grieving involves blame and denial, and these can distort thinking. So even though Mal may not be responsible, there may be times for Zoe when she doubts that, fairly or not.

Whoever fixed the title, thanks.

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Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:55 PM

ALIASSE

Also, on the question of irrational denail and blame GillianRose said elsewhere that Zoe would get to resenting Simon and River, following through their arrival on the ship to the moment of Wash's death as part of a 'what if?' process. This seems really plausible to me, and the connection with blaming Mal is obviously that he is Captain and it had ultimately been the decision-maker when it came to keeping them on the ship.

As you can see, I'm thinking that in some way - not fair and not simple - Zoe would at some point feel that if it hadn't been for certain decisions, Wash might still be alive.

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