GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Of Firefly and StarTrek

POSTED BY: SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Saturday, June 12, 2004 09:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5871
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, June 9, 2004 2:47 AM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT


Hello,
I grew up a Trekker, I met my wife at a Star Trek Convention, so you can say that I owe that show.
The Original series and Movies, then Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, all wonderful programming, and during the middle of the Next Generation series Trek seemed to be at it's height.
However after the end of The Next Generation, and with the average quality next gen movies and the next two Average generic spinoffs (Voyager and Enterprise) I have seen that the Trek world has gone into a downward spiral, and it does not seem to be getting any better. Trek Conventions once EVERYWHERE are truly on a slow but steady decline.

Now I was introduced to Firefly, I see in it, a show with the same magical qualities of the original series of Trek, except with better writing, special effects, and a iron tight Cast of Characters played by the absolute best Actors they could have found.Not that Trek did not have good actors, but you don't see Nathan Fillion ever going.....Over.....the.....top!!!

When Original Star Trek was cancelled they took 10 years to put a movie out, which reinvented the franchise, but by that time it already had a very strong fan base.

We see Firefly today with a strong fan base, and a movie coming out less than 3 years after the show was cancelled, we are on the brink of a real opprotunity here. The same attention the Trekkers have been given in the world of fandom and out of Fandom is the same attention that I see Browncoats getting if we keep our good work going.

I have also noticed some very different attitudes concerning how the Firefly Creator and Crew view US as opposed to how Berman and the stars of Trek view TREKKERS(with the exception of a few great stars from the original series and TNG.)
It just seems that the Firefly family is based more on the love of the Show, AND people, also Firefly brings back the important message of Multi-culturalism, which Trek lost on it's path to commercialism.

What Firefly also brought to the Browncoats was the concept of Religious tolerance and diversity, Shepherd of Buddhist Monk, it is ALL relevant if one wants it to be.
Religon being a topic they did not want to really touch in Trek, well, Whedon smartly adds religion into the Firefly 'verse because he understands Human Nature, and how it truly changes very little.

I think we as Browncoats are just getting started, I see great things for the 'verse of Firefly, but we must work very hard to ensure that a second and third movie can come back, and to convert the masses to this great Family.
So that oneday the Oxford dictionary will have a definition for Browncoat.


Maybe it is just that I was feelin' a might truthsome, but I just can't help but notice this.

Are their any Other Trekkers or former Trekkers who feel the same?

Proudly,
Scottish BrownCoat


----------------------------------
Bwahh!!!!!

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 3:04 AM

LIZ


Quote:

Originally posted by ScottishBrownCoat:
(snip)
Are their any Other Trekkers or former Trekkers who feel the same?
(snip)


Yes. I grew up w/TNG. i used to watch it with my father every Friday night. I even had a Trek uniform and vulcan ears (i was 10). After watching a couple episodes of Firefly (on DVD-- i hadn't even heard about it when it was on the air) i called my dad and told him "You have to watch this show." he borrowed the DVDs and was hooked as well, and he was a Trekker (from back when we called ourselves Trekkies ).

We are at the brink of something great here. Congratulations to all the hardcore Browncoats who made sure this DVD was released and made the BDM happen... and thanks for putting up with us Johnny-come-latelys.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 4:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I don't know that I would really call myself a "Trekkie", though I did enjoy the original series, TNG, and DS9. I definitely was never as enthusiastic about any of the ST shows as I am about Firefly (& the BDM), but I would watch them whenever I got the chance.

To me, there is just a magical quality to everything about Firefly as ScottishBrowncoat mentioned. The writing, acting, the chemistry of the cast, the direction, the sets, etc, all add to the beauty of Firefly.

I may not have been a Trekkie, but I am damn proud to be a Browncoat.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 5:03 AM

MANTICHORUS


Now, that was a real pretty speech you gave there. I wouldn't call myself a Trekkie, but I like watchin' TNG, Voyager, and (opening myself to some flak) Enterprise (it's the pioneer to it that I like).
Out of the three listed, I prefer TNG. Go Patrick Stewart!

-------------------------------------------
"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than."
-------------------------------------
"MAL: Gotta say, doctor, your talent for alienatin' folk is near miraculous.
SIMON: Yes, I'm very proud."

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 5:26 AM

CPTCRCKPOT


I agree, I think Firefly has the potential to become something far greater than Star Trek.

Most of the earliest memories I have are related to Star Trek, of watching the Original Series, or drawing pictures of the Enterprise, or playing Star Trek with my friends during recess (I was always McCoy, BTW). When Star Trek: TMP came out, I begged my mom to take me to see it on opening day, and have seen every movie since on opening day. I've seen every episode of every series, and enjoyed them immensely. Even as I've watched Star Trek decline, I've found things to enjoy about the shows.

Then along came Firefly. I didn't see it when it originally aired. I remember seeing a commercial for it before it aired, and thinking that I should watch it, but could never seem to find it on the rare Fridays when I was home. When it came out on DVD, I started hearing buzz about it, saying that it was good, but I figured it couldn't be all that great, considering how everything on TV (even Star Trek, to a great extent) is pretty much crap nowadays, and if it got cancelled, it must be really crappy. But I kept hearing buzz about it, and about how good it was, so finally I figured I'd give it a look. I rented it via NetFlix, got it within a few days, then left it sitting around for almost a week before watching it. I finally watched it one day after I got home from work, ironically enough right after watching Enterprise. After watching "Serenity", I ordered the DVDs from Amazon. I then preceeded to watch the rest of disc 1, and then disc 2, before taking a quick nap before going to work. When I got home from work, I watched discs 3 & 4. Needless to say, I was very nearly worthless from lack of sleep when I went in to work Friday. I watched them all again that weekend, and when the DVDs from Amazon arrived on Monday, I sent the NetFlix discs back. In my opinion, Firefly is the best show ever. Even better than my beloved Star Trek. It is everything I loved about Star Trek, only better. And while I will always be proud to call myself a Trekker, I am much, much prouder to call myself a Browncoat. So long as Mr. Whedon continues to be in control of Firefly, I see no reason how Firefly could fail to eclipse Star Trek.

No matter where you go, there you are

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 7:01 AM

RKLENSETH


I also see the hints of Star Wars too. I mean when the original Star Wars movie came out it had really bad promotion and all because the studios felt it was going to be a flop. But because of the few fans who saw it when it opened it became the second biggest box office hit of all time. But it was the fans at that time, through word of mouth that made Star Wars.

Firefly had a small, but strong fanbase after being cut off only half a season into its life. If you think about Firefly has made a incredible life. A show that got cancelled after only half a season (14 hours of it) has not only kept a lot of the original fanbase intact but I would say has grown 10 times larger in the year and a half that it has been off of tv. After only being cancelled 3 years it will have a movie that has the potential to break box office records. Look at Amazon.com, 939 reveiws averaging 5 stars and still in the top 100 bestselling DVDs after 8 months of being put out on preordering. Like Star Wars, the word of Firefly is reaching people and bringing them into our world. Like Star Trek, Firefly won't die because it had a few bumps in the road. Things of the quality of Firefly just don't simply disappear without a bang.

I find it funny that last summer when rumors of a DVD being release were coming out that a lot of people said it would never happen. When the DVD did come out the same people said that the DVD wouldn't sale. When rumors of the movie came out in September the same people said that no one in their right mind would make a movie. When the movie was greenlit the same people are now saying that the movie won't do much. Well that is a score we will have to settle in 2005 but I don't have any worries.

Firefly won't die. Because it can't. Like Mal, Firely isn't just going to simply lie down and die when the times get tough. No, it lives on, survives on because what else can it do. Except simply die which it will not.

And remember, "Doing the impossible makes us mighty."

We have done the impossible so far.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 7:19 AM

LIZ


Quote:

Firefly won't die. Because it can't. Like Mal, Firely isn't just going to simply lie down and die when the times get tough. No, it lives on, survives on because what else can it do. Except simply die which it will not.

It can't die,you know why? because it's too damn pretty. (sorry, had to go there.)

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 8:32 AM

TOMTBA2004


how odd, i was talking to my frineds about this same subject..this morning during 2nd period (first class of the day) Even though i grew up with star trek mostly because my brother made me watch it, i guess i liked it but was never obsessed with it like i am with firefly. and even with the new star trek movie(the script is still being written, i think) it's safe to say that it's dead. let it go . its time for firefly to rise again...

"lets go to work"

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 9:45 AM

RELFEXIVE


Sometimes Trek can just be so.... stupid.

Stupid characters, badly thought-out situations, ridiculous concepts.

Not all the time. Just... well, most of it.

And don't get me started on all the gos-se time travel.

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 9:52 AM

GHOULMAN


Nice post ScottishBrownCoat - I agree, It's a pretty simple equation...

The original Star Trek was written by some of the giants of TV and Sci-Fi writing. Peeples, Sturgeon, etc. Star Trek was, for years, thought to be successful not because it was "Sci-Fi" but because thier stories were about PEOPLE.

Now think... what is Firefly about? Of course.

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Wednesday, June 9, 2004 11:16 AM

SHIKSA


Some friends of mine and I have actually had this discussion before, so I'm excited to see it come up here.

I like Star Trek. I always have. I grew up watching the Original Series because my Mom is a fan (she has a thing for Spock ). Aside from Enterprise, which I lost interest in, I've enjoyed all of its incarnations. But if I had to say which appealed to me more, I'd go with Firefly.

I think it all comes down to the characters. Almost every character in Star Trek is presented as a little too perfect. This makes sense: Starfleet only puts its elite in charge of ships like the Enterprise. They are top Academy graduates, excellent leaders, diplomats--for Heaven's sake, Kirk was the youngest Captain in history. How many of us can personally relate to that? I have a much easier time relating to the characters of Firefly, who, as smart and resourceful as they are, are still ordinary people.


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Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:34 AM

DEANNAMAY


I grew up with Star Trek, I remember not wanting to trick or treat because a rerun was on the tube. I loved Spock.

When Next Generation came out I watched it, mainly because there was very little Sci Fi out, and I wanted to support it, but I kind of lost interest, didn't even watch the last two seasons. They were too perfect.

I loved Deep Space Nine, people argued, and there was an actual story arc that had a begining and an end. These were good people, with specific flaws. Heavens, flaws in the Trek universe.

I tried Voyager, and Enterprise just haven't caught my interest.

I want my people to fight against their own baser instincts, and win out. I want them to be underdogs in a less than perfect world. After seeing things like Farscape and Firefly, where there is actual character development and reasons for plot issues, I am spoiled rotten. I want substance. I am not stupid, despite the fact that I watch television. It's kind of funny, two of my favorite shows period, both cancelled before their time are making a come-back. Farscape this fall, and Firefly next Spring. Good science fiction isn't dead yet.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:43 AM

RELFEXIVE


Quote:

Originally posted by DeannaMay:
I want my people to fight against their own baser instincts, and win out. I want them to be underdogs in a less than perfect world. After seeing things like Farscape and Firefly, where there is actual character development and reasons for plot issues, I am spoiled rotten. I want substance. I am not stupid, despite the fact that I watch television. It's kind of funny, two of my favorite shows period, both cancelled before their time are making a come-back. Farscape this fall, and Firefly next Spring. Good science fiction isn't dead yet.




...which is most definitely a good thing.

Babylon 5 was gorram shiny too. It's been nice to see all the eps on DVD again.

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:43 AM

RELFEXIVE


>>SNIPPED DOUBLE-POST<<

Gorram gos-se 'puter...

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 4:50 AM

CYBERSNARK


I dunno; I think the Enterprise characters are plenty real.

Mayweather and Reed breaking the transporter and wandering off, whistling innocently and glad they they don't have to clean this up. (C'mon, let's be honest, we've all done that.)

Trip and Archer doing the equivalent of parking a car on an incline and forgetting to set the parking brake.

Trip showing up for duty in a loud Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts (& T'Pol and Archer's simultaneous "WTF" reactions).

Reed & Trip attempting a "Night at the Roxbury" reference and then getting rolled on Risa.

T'Pol's drug addiction.

Trip talking during movie night (Special Hell), and T'Pol's snarky reaction (that would've made Book proud).

Ambassador Soval being an interplanetary pr*ck --and T'Pol acknowledging it.

Shran wrestling with his orders and his personal friendship with Archer.

Hoshi's S1 freakouts --and Reed's beaming pride in S3, when Hoshi is showing the MACOs "how it's done."

Reed versus Hayes, and Archer's dressing them both down.

Trip's racism, and unexpected guilt/mourning at Degra's death.

T'Pol being left in command, and fumbling it completely.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:27 AM

STANDING8


Quote:

Originally posted by ScottishBrownCoat:
Hello,
I grew up a Trekker, I met my wife at a Star Trek Convention, so you can say that I owe that show.
The Original series and Movies, then Next Generation and Deep Space Nine, all wonderful programming, and during the middle of the Next Generation series Trek seemed to be at it's height.
However after the end of The Next Generation, and with the average quality next gen movies and the next two Average generic spinoffs (Voyager and Enterprise) I have seen that the Trek world has gone into a downward spiral, and it does not seem to be getting any better. Trek Conventions once EVERYWHERE are truly on a slow but steady decline.

Now I was introduced to Firefly, I see in it, a show with the same magical qualities of the original series of Trek, except with better writing, special effects, and a iron tight Cast of Characters played by the absolute best Actors they could have found.Not that Trek did not have good actors, but you don't see Nathan Fillion ever going.....Over.....the.....top!!!

When Original Star Trek was cancelled they took 10 years to put a movie out, which reinvented the franchise, but by that time it already had a very strong fan base.

We see Firefly today with a strong fan base, and a movie coming out less than 3 years after the show was cancelled, we are on the brink of a real opprotunity here. The same attention the Trekkers have been given in the world of fandom and out of Fandom is the same attention that I see Browncoats getting if we keep our good work going.

I have also noticed some very different attitudes concerning how the Firefly Creator and Crew view US as opposed to how Berman and the stars of Trek view TREKKERS(with the exception of a few great stars from the original series and TNG.)
It just seems that the Firefly family is based more on the love of the Show, AND people, also Firefly brings back the important message of Multi-culturalism, which Trek lost on it's path to commercialism.

What Firefly also brought to the Browncoats was the concept of Religious tolerance and diversity, Shepherd of Buddhist Monk, it is ALL relevant if one wants it to be.
Religon being a topic they did not want to really touch in Trek, well, Whedon smartly adds religion into the Firefly 'verse because he understands Human Nature, and how it truly changes very little.

I think we as Browncoats are just getting started, I see great things for the 'verse of Firefly, but we must work very hard to ensure that a second and third movie can come back, and to convert the masses to this great Family.
So that oneday the Oxford dictionary will have a definition for Browncoat.


Maybe it is just that I was feelin' a might truthsome, but I just can't help but notice this.

Are their any Other Trekkers or former Trekkers who feel the same?

Proudly,
Scottish BrownCoat


----------------------------------
Bwahh!!!!!



my thoughts exactly. great words.

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 5:43 PM

ROCKETJOCK


Okay, Bona Fides first: I'm a first generation Trekker, by which I mean I remember watching TOS first run on NBC.

I don't think Star Trek has gone downhill so much as it's just gotten tired. The assumptions of five series and so-many-everybody's-lost-count movies have straightjacketed the writers, to the point that Enterprise has to virtually ignore prior continuity just to entertain.

There's a philosophical hardening of the arteries to the series at this point too. Take the recent episode dealing with a tri-gendered species, one of which was considered property. I knew long before it was established in the script that the third gender would prove to be just as intelligent as the other two, because otherwise the predetermined politically-correct moral of the show would hang-fire, and we'd have to deal with the idea that an alien species might be, I don't know, alien or something.

The best thing about the Fireflyverse is that it's fresh, and not burdened by 35+ years of backstory. The next best thing is that most of its assumptions are diametrically opposed to those of Star Trek/Star Wars, so that the stories that will develop from those assumptions will be new and exciting.

As the Inuit say, "A change is as good as a rest."

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:11 PM

STARPILOTGRAINGER


I used to love Trek, but after DS9 (which I still think was wonderful), it's been on a serious downslide.

What it comes down to is that Trek has lost The Love. There's no sense from any current episode that any love went into it. In DS9, I could see it in spades, even in the bad ones. TNG went back and forth, some individual episodes had it, some didn't. Voyager and Enterprise don't seem to have it at all. I watch it and I get the sense that they're writing it because its their jobs to produce this product called Trek, week after week, that at the top they don't see the fans as anything other than ratings numbers they have to make go up or down, and a certainty that they can depend on die hards watching it.

Firefly has The Love. I can feel that Joss loved this show, that the cast are putting their best work into it, that _they_ believe it's something special. Just by watching it. And them believing it's something special goes a long way. (Shows don't have to necessarily be good when they show The Love, but it certainly helps. The Love is infectious.).



Star Pilot Grainger

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 6:39 PM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT


Yeah StarPilot!

I understand completely.

That should be our slogan,

"Browncoats, come feel the love."

Shiny.....

~SBC

-------------------------------------
Bwahh!!!!!

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Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:37 PM

DYAIRVATREE


For those talking about Trek's decline I know what you mean. I was huge fan of the original and although I was never wild about TNG I watched it and could see that there was a real love put into the show. I was wild about Deep Space Nine and you could see the love put into that. The decline began with Voyager in my opinion I thought it started out well but after Brendon Braga took over it became more and more about ratings.

I mean if you watch the Borg episodes of the show you can all but hear the network suits saying put the Borg in they get ratings.What do you mean you don't have any good stories with Borg who cares just put them in they get ratings.Voyager managed to single handedly ruin the borg as interesting villians. In fact the more they went for ratings the lower the ratings got. Because people into Star Trek are exactly the kind of people smart enough to see whats going on.

The other thing mentioned on this thread that other than the love being missing in recent years is the shows age. It's all been done and done to death. I believe the following theory everything is born and starts out young and frisky. Then comes middle age maturity.Then comes senility and death. This applies to television shows as well.Original Trek young and frisky TNG and DS9 maturity and Voyager and Enterprise well I'll let you figure it out.

Also relating to it's age is the fact that all of us sci-fi fans most of our lives have had only Trek to turn to as far as television goes. Every time a new Sci-Fi space opera tried to rear it's head it got killed right quick. So we never even got the chance to see a competing vision. Then along come nineties and Babylon 5 it not only doesn't get killed it thrives. Then comes Farscape and that goes for four years then comes Firefly all of wich qualify as young and frisky by the way.

You see appart of this decline is simply people want a new and different vision of the universe then Star Trek had to offer. It's like eating the same thing for years on end no matter how great it may be you are going to get tired of it. The Sci-Fi community was ready for a change.In fact sad to say because I still love Trek but Star Trek in many ways is a great example of the dangers of a monopoly.

One finial thought I have a theory as to why so many in the Trek community wanted so badly to see Babylon 5 fail. I think consciously or not many knew if B5 was aloud to live it would spawn other successful space series and if that happend it would be the begining of the end for Star Trek and of course it was.






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Friday, June 11, 2004 2:10 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


THE EVOLUTION OF SCI-FI

There was Lost In Space and The Time Tunnel. They were abysmal shows. Poorly written, very campy. Super formulaic. No character development.

Star Trek The Original Series wasn't necessarily a great show, but it was the very best show in the Sci-Fi genre out at the time. It eclipsed all other Sci-Fi, and managed to be pretty good.

Star Trek continued to be the best Sci-Fi for many years. Battlestar Galactica didn't dent it, nor did Space: 1999, nor Buck Rogers, nor anything, really. The movies (Especially 2, 3, 4, and 6.) really developed the characters and universe nicely.

The Next Generation was abysmal during the first season, for the most part. But it was the best NEW Sci-Fi show of the time, and so we watched it. And it got better. And it eventually got to be good, though it was never great.

Babylon 5... that surprised me. The first pilot episode was fairly boring and odd. Most of the first season, in fact, was boring and odd. But it grew in quality much more quickly than TNG had. Seasons 2-4 were on a continuous path to greatness. Babylon 5 is still, in my opinion, the second best Sci-Fi ever. Truly amazing stuff.

Deep Space 9 was better than much of TNG. It strayed from the Trek Formula established by Roddenberry. Lots of fans complained about that, but it was a grittier, more real universe than TNG presented. The people were human, despite their foam appliances. Well, as human as Trek could hope to portray them. DS9 wasn't quite as good as Babylon 5, but it was much better than any previous Trek. Unfortunately, its final episode was a let-down, but that is often true of final episodes.

Voyager was sad. It was a continuous decline of the franchise. It wasn't quite as good as TOS, and that says something. The TNG movies helped to speed that decline along.

I never got into Farscape. I can't say why. I'll avoid commenting on it.

Firefly was just fantastic. Bloody fantastic. Fantastic in a way I hadn't seen since Babylon 5. The only thing I wish Firefly had more of was 'deadly serious moments.' Moments that aren't tempered by hilarity or cuteness. I love hilarity and cuteness, just not in every scene. Even so, Firefly is what I consider to be the epitome of Sci-Fi evolution thus far. The Science is the setting, not the show. The show is people, and that is as it should be.

So, despite degenerates and mutant offspring (Enterprise (Just horrible.) and Crusade (who PICKED that music? Shoot him.) We have seen a continual refinement of the Sci-Fi genre.

Firefly is very good, and it is GREAT in comparison to everything else right now. I often wonder how much further the Sci-Fi genre can evolve. I am contented, though, by the knowledge that Firefly itself is still growing and evolving, and may yet become better than itself.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, June 11, 2004 2:54 PM

TEELABROWN


Quote:

That should be our slogan,

"Browncoats, come feel the love."



*feels the love* Ahhh...

_____________
"Freedom is the Freedom to say that 2 plus 2 make 4. If that is granted, all else follows"-Winston, 1984
Teela Brown, keeper of bad typing.
"No one reads these things any way."- Bart on Blackboard

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Friday, June 11, 2004 3:48 PM

CCT


WOW, has Trek been an influence on my life. BUT I wouldn't portray myself as a latex-eared trekkie- only been to one convention, don't own a bunch of trekkie stuff, etc. I have to explain a bit...

I was born in '64, probably a bit older than the average here. In a small town in the Ozarks, with all of 3 TV stations at my disposal. My world was VERY small... what little I knew of the world was from TV, either news or entertainment. I was barely aware there were any problems in the world- no marching about Vietnam, no race issues (cause there weren't any other races represented!). A very conservative, racist, close minded world. My dad was a good man, but ex-construction, ex-military, and he had a very definite view of the world.

BUT, from what I saw on the news there was more to the world- I couldn't understand it all but I could see there were some serious discrepancies from " 'round here" and elsewhere. And there was StarTrek, which caught my attention. I realized even then that some of the shows were verging on silly! But it encouraged me to think.. the ideals and concepts were very much in contrast to what was being presented to me in my little world, and I decided to shut my mouth, keep my eyes and ears open, and reserve judgment until I had a bit more data on the true nature of things. So many of my friends couldn't make that leap... from "it's different, let's smash it!" to "it's different- let's look it over and figure it out, and not do any damage along the way".

I was SO lucky to have Trek. And parents that actually weren't too bad. For instance, I can remember watching coverage of the Apollo missions, watching men walking on the moon! I was totally caught up in that- I'd be glued to the TV after breakfast and my mom would wave the school bus on, and take me into school late so I could watch. How cool is that?!?!

Now, I have to be honest, I often feel a bit cheated. We were being promised a lot back then- the US was kicking ass and when we grew up there were going to be space stations, and moon bases, and all sorts stuff that didn't happen. BUT on the other hand we didn't turn the world into a swirling sphere of radioactive dust either, so it could be worse.

Oh, and "Johnny Quest" wasn't too bad either. Saturday mornings were pretty cool then! And the second season of Buck Rogers, when Wilma was wearing those tight jumpsuits... oh my. Them was the days!

Chris in KC

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Saturday, June 12, 2004 9:52 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by cct:
My dad was a good man, but ex-construction, ex-military, and he had a very definite view of the world.

I empathize (a word I learned from Star Trek, ironically). My folks were/are (dad died years ago, mom's still around) good people, but very. . . small. Very religious for one thing. Dad wanted to be a priest, mom wanted to be a nun/teacher (y'know, the private-school, scary, smack-you-with-a-ruler type nun). They met, fell in love, got married, and had me. Mom became a normal public-school teacher, dad became a (firmly average --neither brilliant nor incompetent) mechanic.

Quote:

the ideals and concepts were very much in contrast to what was being presented to me in my little world, and I decided to shut my mouth, keep my eyes and ears open, and reserve judgment until I had a bit more data on the true nature of things. So many of my friends couldn't make that leap... from "it's different, let's smash it!" to "it's different- let's look it over and figure it out, and not do any damage along the way".

I was SO lucky to have Trek.

I was in the same boat with TNG. I was a wierdo growing up, so I've always had a special affection for the wierd, strange, Outsider-type characters. Trek was the first time I was confronted with the idea that i didn't have to lie and pretend to be just like everybody else; that even with my nerdyness and tendency to think things that others didn't, I could provide something of value.

One of my favourite traditions in Star Trek is the Outsider Character. Imagine your worst nightmare; the monster that can't be reasoned with, can't be trusted, has nothing in common with you, and can only be useful when its dead. . . Now, meet your new best friend.

Spock, the emotionless alien genius. Worf, the "bloodthirsty klingon." Data, the inhuman android. Kira, the fanatical ex-terrorist. Garak, the Cardassian spy. Quark, the rapacious Ferengi. Bashir, the genetically-engineered superman. Dax, the alien parasite. Odo, the Changeling. Seven of Nine, the Borg drone (okay, so that one didn't work out).

And even now, in the post-DS9 novels, with my absolute favourite Trek character of any generation: First Taran'Atar, the Jem'Hadar "ambassador" to DS9.

Quote:

We were being promised a lot back then- the US was kicking ass and when we grew up there were going to be space stations, and moon bases, and all sorts stuff that didn't happen.

Quote:

And flying cars. I always wanted a flying car.
--Angel

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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