jayne and the interesting day by est120

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

jayne and the interesting day

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Monday, June 28, 2004 13:28
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Sunday, June 27, 2004 3:36 AM

not the title for a children's book, but an actual observation! in "serenity", mal asks jayne why he did not take the feds offer and turn on him (mal). jayne says "money wasn't good enough" or something like that. mal replies, "what happens when it is good enough?" and jayne says "well, that'll be an interesting day.". okay, fast forward to ariel. jayne DOES take the fed money to turn on mal. as we all saw, that was quite an interesting day, especially for jayne if getting hit in the face with a steel wrench the size of a loaf of french bread is interesting. hahahahahaha!

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 5:52 AM

CYBERSNARK

Jayne didn't realize he was turning on Mal, though. That's why Mal had to paraphrase Jesus at the airlock (Mal at the airlock, not Jesus at the airlock. Interesting as that would've been).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:38 AM

THEREALME

With all that I've seen of Jayne (and I guess I've seen it all, like most of you), I cannot believe that Jayne would willingly and knowingly turn on Mal. That comment about the interesting day was just to keep up Jayne's tough-guy image. Both Mal and Jayne knew it was BS.

No matter how much Jayne complains, he is steadfastly loyal to Mal. He did not take Dobson's offer in Serenity, when it would have been easy to shoot Mal with that sniper rifle rather than Patience's goons. He tossed in his money to buy Mal back in War Stories, and even joined the suicide mission to rescue him. He tried to deal fairly with Mal for Saffron (Vera for the wife, that's fair!), rather than try something brutish. He backed down in Serenity after Mal ordered him away from the dinner table after the insult to Kaylee. He almost pleads with Mal during the airlock scene, to get Mal to understand that Jayne didn't mean to betray MAL. That notion seemed as or more important to Jayne than his approaching death. I'm sure there are many other examples.

Also, Jayne is intimidated by Mal. There are a number of occasions when Jayne backs down or backs away from Mal. Examples: In Out of Gas, when Mal throws Wash up against the wall and tells Wash to do his job, Jayne backs away from the pair. During the "Not in Jayne's fault direction" conversation in Objects in Space, Mal responds harshly and Jayne seems to fold up. Again, I know that there are more, and perhaps others can point them out.

I think that, while Jayne is a big, violent dog, Mal is the alpha wolf. Jayne is willing to bully most others, but not him. Of course, he could recognize Mal as a tough guy himself. But partly, I think it is because Mal has treated Jayne pretty well, better than Jayne is used to.

The interesting day will never come.

The Real Me

Got Mudder's Milk

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:53 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
With all that I've seen of Jayne (and I guess I've seen it all, like most of you), I cannot believe that Jayne would willingly and knowingly turn on Mal. That comment about the interesting day was just to keep up Jayne's tough-guy image. Both Mal and Jayne knew it was BS.

The interesting day will never come.

Have to disagree - I got the impression that this was part of Jayne's journey. Jayne was and is a mercenary. On each occassion where he has "done the right thing", the monetary equation has always been at the forefront - sure he could have helped Dobson, but that guy wasn't offering much - and it had a real chance of backfiring. Jayne turned on Mal by betraying Simon and River when he thought he could get away with it, and because he misunderstood Mal.

There would have come a time in the series, I have no doubt, where Jayne would have been faced with a chance to betray Mal, and he may even have taken it - at least at first.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:14 PM

THEREALME

Well, I became strongly convinced of the opinion that Jayne would never turn on Mal due to events in War Stories. He GAVE UP HIS MONEY to buy Mal back. It was quite a sizable wad of cash. Then (after much complaining, granted) Jayne charged in to help save Mal, even though there was no monetary reward and a terrible amount of risk.

As to Dobson's offer, while dangerous to be sure, it would have gotten Jayne a much better ship than Serenity. That's not just pocket change!

While Jayne did betray River and Simon, I remain convinced that he thought he was doing nothing against Mal himself, and maybe was doing Mal a favor by getting rid of the dangerous pair. Of course money was involved with Jayne's decision in Ariel. But I still don't think any amount of money would be enough for Jayne to turn on Mal himself.

The Real Me

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:21 PM

THEREALME

Also, I cannot imagine Mal forgiving Jayne a second time. If Jayne ever again betrays Mal, or anyone on the ship, he will be gone from the show, and probably killed by Mal and/or Zoe.

Of course, with the twists thrown in to some of these series, it would be Kaylee to do the deed, blowing him away right at the moment of traitor-Jayne's triumph.

The Real Me

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:27 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
Well, I became strongly convinced of the opinion that Jayne would never turn on Mal due to events in War Stories. He GAVE UP HIS MONEY to buy Mal back. It was quite a sizable wad of cash. Then (after much complaining, granted) Jayne charged in to help save Mal, even though there was no monetary reward and a terrible amount of risk.

If he hadn't, he would have been off Serenity, which was for him a good gig up till then. Sure, they hadn't made a lot of cash it seems, but equally he was getting a fair share of it.

Thing is, with River and Simon on board, Jayne would have started seeing (as he already had, in Ariel) that they were having to stay away from the "good" jobs, and were spending more and more time running from pursuers than running scams. For someone like Jayne, I figure that would have started to grow tired pretty quick.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:36 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
Also, I cannot imagine Mal forgiving Jayne a second time. If Jayne ever again betrays Mal, or anyone on the ship, he will be gone from the show, and probably killed by Mal and/or Zoe.

Well, Joss does like to put his characters through the ringer. If he could redeem Faith, Anya, Andrew, Willow, Angel, Darla, Wesley...

the list goes on. Either betrayal and redemption or betrayal and bloody death - either way would have made for good TV.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 2:28 PM

SHINYSEVEN

As for Dobson's offer...well, the next time we saw Dobson his hands were untied and he was wandering around the ship.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 3:12 PM

THEREALME

No, I believe that the next time we saw Dobson, he was cutting himself loose on something sharp that he found.

I suppose that one could argue that Jayne left that sharp thing nearby, but it would have been a LOT easier and more direct to just cut Dobson free.

If Jayne were going to betray Mal, I doubt that the deed would be done in such a lame manner.

The Real Me

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 4:38 PM

LORA

I think I see your point, there, about Jayne not being so subtle as to betray Mal by leaving Dobson merely the opportunity to escape -- if there's no clear and certain assistance to the law-man, there's no clear and certain money from that law-man, is there?

I think that when we watch the episodes in Joss' order, we get to see the transition in Jayne from "that'll be an interesting day" in Serenity (meaning that he thought hard about betraying Mal) to "it's not like I ratted YOU out to the Feds" in Ariel (meaning that he makes a distinction between the Captain and the ship) to "shoulda, woulda, coulda" in War Stories as he chambers a round in answer to Zoe's comment about staying in his bunk (meaning he's armed and ready to folllow her into battle to retrieve the Captain). Going into the line of fire for no profit is a far cry from simply not taking Dobson up on his offer.

Now, I also believe that Jayne's concept of crew is still evolving. I think the doctor's speech in Trash about not sleeping with one eye open is something we can expect to see reviewed in the BDM. Maybe Jayne still throwing gloomy, guilty glances at a bored Simon and a grinning River, or somesuch...

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 4:52 PM

THEREALME

Yes, excellent point.

I thought that Jayne would be tempted, sure. I just didn't think he would ever finally make the leap to betray Mal.

But how close would Jayne come? Would the "Serenity" Jayne rush off to the rescue like the "War Stories" Jayne?

Yes, there has been an evolution to the character.

The Real Me

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 5:41 PM

SHINYSEVEN

I just finished having another viewing of Serenity, and you're quite right--I mis-remembered. But OTOH Dobson doesn't look enough worse from the encounter with Jayne for Jayne to have really put his heart and soul into it (creepy little foreshadowing about "getting an ear," too), and even though it would take Jayne about 800 years to finish an internship, he's certainly smart enough to check for sharp objects in the vicinity of a prisoner.

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:12 PM

GUNRUNNER

Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven:
he's certainly smart enough to check for sharp objects in the vicinity of a prisoner.

Well both He and Mal forgot to remove all bludgeoning instruments from the room- Remember that blue fire extinguisher on the wall? And Jayne didn’t go though Dobson’s things or he would have found the two extra guns he had, in Safe Simon is off the ship for 10 minutes and Jayne is stealing everything he owns!

I think Jayne wanted Dobson to work for it. If Jayne just cut him loose he might try to knock him out and spoil Jayne’s plans for money and power- Jayne leaves a little sharp thing so Dobson doesn’t get free until Jayne is safely away from an angry Lawman and direct blame.

Or maybe Book sliped him the sharp object...

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Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:15 PM

TALONPEST

I think that if we were intended to believe that Dobson had found that sharp object on his own we would have seen it. The fact that the last we see of him before that is him offering Jayne money, and then we see him cutting his way out implies to me that Jayne provided it. Plus the fact that Mal calls Jayne on it in the end- "What with you having tied him up so well and all..." or something to that effect. Jayne denied it of course, but what else was he going to do? I think the reason Jayne gave Dobson something to cut his way out rather than just freeing him outright is just for that reason- in case things didn't go as Dobson planned Jayne had the ability to deny his involvment.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 4:14 AM

THEREALME

Certainly Jayne is capable of betraying his partners, as we see in Jaynestown. So it is possible that Jayne helped Dobson escape, but I still doubt it.

If Jayne were going to betray Mal, I think it would go more like this:

MAL: Two-fry, eh? Nice hat. *beat* I said, NICE HAT!

Patience: Get'em, boys!

All Jayne had to do was NOTHING, and he could have returned to Serenity and pretty much taken over. Who could have opposed him? Book, possibly, but why?

Right. Needs gas money. Okay, let the scene play out as it did in Serenity, but right after Mal tells Patience to go run her little world, Jayne uses that sniper rifle to kill Mal, Zoe, and maybe even Patience.

Jayne returns to the ship with a handful of cash and a sad, sad story.

The Real Me

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Monday, June 28, 2004 5:57 AM

DEANNAMAY

I think Jayne thinks he would betray Mal, or at least challenge him, when the day came. Unfortunately, since then he has betrayed a brother and sister who are only there because of a corrupt government experiment (we think). Jayne has to deal with the aftereffects of his actions, when before I think he just moved on. He was afraid of Simon and River finding out, not because River freaks him out (which she does) but he realized that he is ashamed of his actions, at least deep down. For the first time Jayne is gaining an actual perspective on himself, and I don't think he is liking what is coming into focus.

Jayne is on a crossroads, where he is deciding to develop a conscience, and keep a family, or to cut all ties, do what is "right" for him, and move on, never looking back. When he is so happy to see his mothers package and get that lovely hat, it shows Jayne does want to belong to a group. In the movie they won't have time to show why Jayne became the way he is now, but I am sure a whole lot of betrayel was involved. He learned this behavior somewhere.

Would Jayne betray Mal? Sure, when they first met, even now, but after a little more exposure to the family element, I don't think he could live with himself. He did donate money, last, and volunteer to rescue Mal, last again. He is being guilted into doing the right thing right now. He is seeing loyalty in front of him, and has to decide whether to join in, and I think despite his past issues, whatever they may be, he wants to join in.

And I'm saying this as a Simon fan. I just wish he would treat my guy with a little more respect. I think Zoe should take Simon aside and teach him how to fight. If Jayne felt Simon was a little more reliable as a backup, he might back off. Just a little, there is always Kaylee, afterall.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 1:10 PM

GUNRUNNER

Quote:
Originally posted by THEREALME:
Right. Needs gas money. Okay, let the scene play out as it did in Serenity, but right after Mal tells Patience to go run her little world, Jayne uses that sniper rifle to kill Mal, Zoe, and maybe even Patience.

Jayne returns to the ship with a handful of cash and a sad, sad story.

And risk Wash finding out Jayne let his wife die/ killed his wife? Mal and Jayne both had Radios Zoe may have had one too. When Jayne dosn't help Mal or Zoe could radio back to the ship telling Wash to help them out or that Jayne has betrayed them, or they Radio that they got the money and are heading back.

I don't think Jayne would risk angering the man who is his ticket out of there and is (untill he gets hes "better than this peice of crap" ship) his Pilot who could lock the cockpit and vent the rest of the ship in to space or full of greaf fly them in to a moon.

Ofcourse Jayne may have been planing to snipe Mal and Zoe out but Wash's fantic yells of "REAVERS!!!!" over the radio made him have a change of heart.

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Monday, June 28, 2004 1:28 PM

THEREALME

Hmmmm...

Jayne has not demonstrated an over-abundance of piloting skill, has he?

Okay, point taken.

The Real Me

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