Simon and swords by chronicthehedgehog

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Simon and swords

POSTED BY: CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 14:46
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Wednesday, July 7, 2004 3:56 AM

Not really an important comment/question but I just watched Shindig again and it got me to wondering, how's Simon with a sword?

We've seen he's much more in his element on core planets, with swordfighting seeming to be ingratiated into high-society anyone else reckon he'd be a mean swordsman?

check out my WIP firefly roleplay system at www.estador.co.uk/firefly

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Wednesday, July 7, 2004 4:15 AM

SHINYSEVEN

He'd look *damn* shiny in fencing uniform, but that's a different question...back when I was still doing a lot of ballet, my teacher told us never to go skiing because it rips up your knees, and I don't think Simon would do anything that puts stress on your weapon hand and creates a fair risk of getting whacked on your non-weapon hand.

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Wednesday, July 7, 2004 4:23 AM

PURPLEBELLY

Simon keeps himself buffed somehow, but the scripts haven't allowed him to show any co-ordinated response to assault. Maybe yoga?

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Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:52 PM

BRUISERSMOM

Simon comes from an elite family on a central planet. If duels are a part elite society on core planets, like they were in the pre-Civil War South, I would imagine sword fighting is part of an young man's education. Therefore, I would hazard a guess that Simon has had some practice with swords. Whether or not he is good at it is another question. He doesn't seem to be the type to pick a fight. So, he may only know the amount of sword play that any young man learns in his society.

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Saturday, July 17, 2004 6:02 PM

SHINYSEVEN

We've seen Book and Jayne lifting weights together...maybe Book and Simon do tai chi.

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Saturday, July 17, 2004 8:08 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Tai chi should give Simon the co-ordinated reflexes that he appears to lack; he doesn't play cricket, either

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Sunday, July 18, 2004 8:21 AM

FEMALEJAYNE

I think Simon would be good with a sword because he's good with a scapel(being a doctor he'd also know where to hit) but yet he doesn't seem to have grace that would be required in dualing...
I think he probably does crunchs when he's not hanging out with River and Kaylee.

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

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Monday, July 19, 2004 12:18 AM

APEX

Simon also comments that "the Captain's a good fighter; he must know how to handle a sword". It could be that he was taking it for granted, since even he knew how to handle a sword, and he couldnt fight. Or something. Maybe.

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Monday, July 19, 2004 2:53 AM

LIZ

i agree w/ Apex. he probably assumes Mal can use a sword since it was part of his education, and the education of all upperclass young people on the core. (so, everyone Simon knew could handle a sword... at least, knew the basics.)

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Monday, July 19, 2004 4:08 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Okay, using the "Joss-played-Traveller (RPG)" perspective, Navy officers and other high-falutin' services (actually, Marines even more) get things like cutlass or sword fighting training. Mal, on the other hand, was an Independent sergeant. I'm guessing that's Army-equivalent, and he probably didn't get sword training. Simon's assuming Mal's like other military officers he's heard of - but he's just not.

As for Simon and swords, I tend to agree that nobility/rich folks in Firefly tend to get sword training (fits with Traveller, too!).

But what about Asian influences? Why do they do epee/foil instead of something like kenjustu?

Forrestwolf
Nightfire: Neverwinter Nights Firefly

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Monday, July 19, 2004 6:01 AM

BRUISERSMOM

Maybe Joss will have Simon use a sword in one of the movies or in a revised episode. It would be nice to see Simon not being completely useless in a fight.

When I saw Simon shirtless in the last episode of Firefly, I thought that someone on Serenity should teach him fight. He has the musculature for it.

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Monday, July 19, 2004 6:10 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

It is never safe to assume w/ Joss. Ever.

I don't think we can automatically assume that Simon is skilled w/ a sword simply because he comes from a family with wealth. He strikes me as the type to throw himself into the pursuit of his medical career to the exclusion of all us, save his sister of course. I am willing to bet his experience w/ swords is limited to he & River running around the estate w/ swords pretending to hunt down Browncoats as kids.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, July 19, 2004 8:04 AM

BRUISERSMOM

Part of the fun of a message board is speculating on topics that interest you. I don't think anyone pretends to know whether or not Joss thinks that Simon is a swordsman. I know I don't. In my speculation, I wasn't thinking about Joss at all.

I used the episode Shindig which was set in the world of the elite and the overall, nineteenth century western theme of the show to formulate my speculation on whether or not Simon would have learned sword play as a child.

As for Shindig, I was thinking about how in the commentary the costumers wanted the clothes to look like the 1860s and the ball room scenes reminded me of movies set in the pre-Civil War South.

I noted that the Alliance elite have rules regarding duels that seem to be widely accepted in their social circles, which also reminded me of the pre-Civil War South and the North during earlier periods when dueling was an acceptable method of protecting your honor or the honor of someone else. Examples from the show include, Mal was set up in Atherton's house so that he wouldn't run away. He had a second named who would fight for him in case he took off. The duel would be fought with swords. Everyone understood what having a duel entailed, except Mal who isn't from and doesn't associate with the elite.

I then speculated that Simon being from the elite would have been taught something of sword play, even if he never was in a duel.

As for Simon with his shirt off, I remember seeing him and the realization hit me that he has muscules that we've never seen. Maybe he should learn to fight. Then, later when I saw this topic, I thought it would be neat to see Simon do something useful in a fight, like sword fighting, in one of the movies. I also thought that he looked pretty hot. The long sleved shirts and vests cover up Simon's/ Sean Maher's muscles, so I didn't even know that he had them until that scene.

If we eliminate the speculation, we eliminate most of the topics and posts from the board. Don't take the speculation too seriously.

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Monday, July 19, 2004 8:41 AM

PURPLEBELLY

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
... Sean Maher's muscles, so I didn't even know that he had them until that scene.

By that time, I think Whedon had tried just about everything else to please the Network. OK, get your kit off, Sean

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Tuesday, July 20, 2004 6:50 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
save his sister

Nicely punned.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:25 AM

BRUISERSMOM

Lucky for us that Joss had tried everything already!

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Tuesday, July 20, 2004 2:16 PM

GRIMLAKIN

Simon a combatant.... Ummmm no. At best I would say he may know some accurpressure and acupuncture with the mixture of eastern and western culture. SO he may be able to do something akin to the vulkan nerve pinch.

Simon is clearly a master of his craft. That craft is medicine. He seems to be a specialist in every field. Hence the super genius. I just want to see him and river review information too complecated for the rest of the crew and come up with an answer. Like human code breakers. Something else to utilise their brains. :)

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Tuesday, July 20, 2004 2:44 PM

FORRESTWOLF

Well, there is the claim I always hear (also from my own rather brief stint at kenjutsu training): that sword fighting is for smart people. Supposed to be that intelligence is rather important for fencing.

I don't know - it doesn't seem like Joss to me to have Simon start doing well with a sword - seems like Xander suddenly getting all effective in Buffy (happened several times, but only for special exceptions).

But at the same time, it would certainly make some logical sense if Simon DID surprise everyone with knowing what to do with the pointy end. He could even verbally overanalyze his own fight a bunch, and then have the opponent bind the sword, break it, and punch him :)

- FW

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Tuesday, July 20, 2004 8:19 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Quote:
Originally posted by Grimlakin:
Simon is clearly a master of his craft.

We have seen him throttle a guard to insensibility in Ariel; a nicely pointed scene, where the bar-room brawler inefficiently kills an near retirement Fed in contrast to the Doctor's calmer assessement and application of skill.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 1:47 PM

DEANNAMAY

Actually, this has been an idea of mine for some time. I think Simon not only knows how to fence, he is very good at it. Simon is a perfectionist, and if he has to do something, he is going to do it very well. Fencing can be very civilized, with well-defined rules, that he would be comfortable with. The goal of killing someone he would not be. I also see him going to Zoe to teach him how to fight because she is the best figher, and then seeing Wash's expression when Simon takes his shirt off. I can see him asking Mal, "should I be jealous" hehehe.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:32 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Did Shindig take place on a core planet? I think Persephone is more toward the Rim.
The culture there probably doesn't reflect what's going on at "the Core." The Feds would probably frown on duels. Just like you don't hear stories about gunfighters drawing down in New Haven, Ct.

I don't think Simon can duel, fence, or even box. He's shown some atheletic ability but it's pretty obvious he's used to using his brain and not his brawn.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:46 PM

LTNOWIS

I dunno about Simon fencing. While it would be logical and cool, I don't think it's super-likely. We've only seen fencing on Persephone, and he lived on Osiris. Planets are big places; what could be the norm on one could be socially unacceptabe on another. Even on Persephone, fencing's probably only popular with some of the upper class. Still, he might've learned somewhere.

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