Band Together! Our Show Shall Return! by CaptainHicks

Come on guys. You just give up that easy. You all talk about wanting this show back. Joss Wheadon is trying to do everything he can to get the show back but without our help he cant do it. You guys are happy excepting the samll victory?..of a board being open still? are your sites that low. We can do this, Joss Wheadon im sure is talking to someone saying how he can bring down the price of the show somehow. He is doing his part. We have to do ours. Consider it like a Donation to the revival of FireFly. Come on guys you cant settle. This can work. I need support on this though. We need support

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:30 AM

ZEEK

Sorry buddy but all I've heard has been anti-tv return. Joss sounds like he's given up on it. Fox owns the rights for 10 years. Joss and Fox don't sound like they're very good friends right now. So give it 10 years. Then come back and we can try.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:46 AM

There is a quote on this veyr site that from joss that says he will nevr give up till firefly returns to tv. How can you guys. you guys are jsut giving up? You have to try. This can work. If we all stand behind it.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainHicks:
There is a quote on this veyr site that from joss that says he will nevr give up till firefly returns to tv. How can you guys. you guys are jsut giving up? You have to try. This can work. If we all stand behind it.

Those quotes came before the movie deal. The reality is if the movie succeeds as we all hope it does, they will make another couple of movies at least.

Contractually, the show cannot return to TV for the time being.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:37 PM

DRAGONFLYDIRECTOR

Ah but the GOOD news is this:
Universal, in the movie contract, has stated that if "Serenity" proves to be a valuable commodity, it will green-light 2 (count 'em - TWO) sequels to the current film.

So, what I suggest is this - Refocus this energy and get as many people you know to go see "Serenity" on opening day. And do it on that day as many times as yer pocketbooks can allow.

First day receipts have PROFOUND effect on the bean-counters!

"Observe Analyze & Respond"
Motto of the A.P.E.s
Alliance Protean Engineers

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:57 PM

VEARSTWIN

I think the best way to bring the show back is if the movie does well. Then it probably won't go back to Fox (the channel that cancels good shows and leaves the sucky ones) it'll go to Sci-fi Channel or somewhere else. But it would be better that way. So if you want to bring the show back go see the movie when it comes out.

"Jayne is a girl's name"-River

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:20 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

CaptainHicks, you say you are new here, but how new are you to Firefly in general? I watched and loved the show when it was on the air, but did not seek out online communitities for it until after I got the DVDs. I've seen posts like yours by newbies nearly every week, and there are others who have been members of this site since before Firefly was on TV, so I'm sure they've heard it all before too.

If you think anyone here is giving up on Firefly, you haven't been paying attention. I think it is nearly unanimous that we would love to see Firefly/Serenity back on weekly TV, but when FOX and Universal make a deal that precludes it returning to TV for a certain number of years, you tell us just to ignore that?

Of course, with the success of the BDM, and I have no doubt at all it will be a total success, we more than likely will get at least two film sequels, but if Universal and Joss want to try to bring it back to TV, I am sure whatever contracts exist now can be renegotiated.

Until then, take it easy on us fellow Browncoats. We're on your side.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:25 PM

SHINY

In addition to seeing the movie early and often, and dragging everyone you can to the movie, it might not be beyond the realm of possibility to have the existing 14 eps re-aired on SciFi or something as a kind of promotion/interest generator for the movie. It might be worth writing to SciFi channel/NBC/Universal about this...

"I left my heart in Seren-ity Val-ley..." <-- the farthest I've ever gotten in writing filk. ;)

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:27 PM

SUPERFLY

Ok, I’ve been thinking on this for awhile. I have to admit, CAPTINHICKS, I like your idea. It will never work, but I like it. It’s gutsy. It’s balls to the walls, and I like that. The harsh, ugly, and mean-faced truth of it is… the majority of the mainstream viewing audience is not ready for Firefly, at least not to the point to make it self-sufficient. I know it’s brilliant, you know it’s brilliant, but if Joe Q Public wanted brilliant, the show would never have been cancelled in the first place.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked down at my DVD set (practically with holes burned through them from play) and wished with all my little south Georgian heart that there was more for me to watch. But let’s think about this for a moment, shall we? Even if everyone here was to somehow become independent multi-millionaires, and we were to buy out every copy of the DVD set that landed on the shelves, even if we were to make it the most “bought” TV DVD set in America like “Family Guy,” even if we were to funnel, nay literally pump, FOX with an infusion of our hard earned money, and get Firefly back on TV, I honestly believe that it would be cancelled again.

Why? Because we were wrong? Because it’s… how you say? Fau? No, because the majority of people cramming the Nelson ratings with numbers are more interested in easy laughs, plots that don’t take much thinking about, fast activating and seemingly random explosions, and lots of fuzzy-wuzzy and funny characters. Not to mention dolly tracks, constant focus, recognizable scores, product placement etc. etc. etc.

I believe Firefly is art. Firefly started something that we will all feel for generations to come. It was, and is, innovative, clever, and on the cutting edge of modern film making. The cast and crew meshed like a fine Swiss watch. But hell, Wal-Mart is the 15th largest economy in the world (just behind Sweden). Joe Q Public doesn’t want or spend money on art does he? No, he goes to Wal-Mart and buys the cheapest most mass-produced product he can buy. It does the job and it doesn’t drain his pocket all that much.

But again, I think your enthusiasm is in the right place, CAPTINHICKS. And I do think this is art. So even though I don’t have the money to buy an extra DVD set for a gift, anyone who doesn’t move fast enough gets their butts plopped down on my sofa to watch an episode. Before I know it, that little hour showing has turned into a 12 hour party with my guest’s mouth looking like a big O. Hell, even the most reluctant person I got to sit still long enough jumped up in the middle of Serenity and shouted “Kaylee’s not dead! She can’t be dead!”

I’m not trying to shoot down your idea out of hand. God, I wish you luck and hope it works, but it hurts my heart to say… I don’t think it will. I believe Firefly was probably mishandled by FOX, but that is only a small part of why it got cancelled in the first place. Genius is rarely recognized in it’s time. Maybe if it got a little more air time… the episodes certainly got better and better. But it was expensive, it needed an intelligent and attentive audience, and mostly, it needed a distributor who cared about art as much as the creators, cast, and crew seemingly did.

I don’t know the man, but I’m pretty sure Joss loves this story. Unfortunately, from what I’ve heard, FOX owns it for the next ten years. Now, if I was to become stupid wealthy… buy my own network… buy the contract from FOX… hmmm.. that might work. Anyone wanna lend me a buck?

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:44 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Superfly:
Anyone wanna lend me a buck?

I'll get back to you after the lottery drawing tonight.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:08 PM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Though I admire your dedication and passion CaptainHicks, I must say that a return to TV looks dim indeed.

I have been here since before the cancellation. I was lurking when the Variety Ad was purchased, I stood beside my fellow Browncoats and did my part during the postcard campaign. I wrote letters, was part of the Browncoat coat drive, and emailed everyone we could find an email address for at the time. When Joss pitched the show to a network, we wrote emails and postcards. We fought long and hard. We got the DVD set out of it, and our dedication (and our purchasing of the DVD set) helped to get the movie deal.

We have done a lot in getting the word out to people. We post on other message boards to let people know what is going on w/ the BDM and to let them know Firefly is still alive. Browncoats from this board and others were part of the DVD to the Troops campaign, which helped w/ troop morale overseas and to help convert more fans.

I think our best hope for a return to TV is to make the DVD & the BDM as successful as possible. If Universal or a network think there is potential for money or ratings, they will negotiate a deal w/ Fox for a tv series. Regardless of what has been said and by whom we all know that money talks & B.S. walks in Hollywood. Anything is possible if there is money involved.

For now we must do what we can to support Joss, Universal, the DVD set, and the BDM. We follow Joss's lead and throw our support behind him 100%. The rest is up to TPTB.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:09 PM

CaptainHicks:

I feel your pain, my Brother.

Believe me when I tell you that virtually everyone here -- and elsewhere Browncoats converge -- has dealt with the denial you are currently expressing (with the exception of PurpleBelly, the King of Cynicism, who is not only the devil's advocate here, he's his client as well...

).

Most of us are in the next phase of Firefly's death as a TV incarnation: Acceptance. My understanding is that the deal Universal hammered out with F*x to get the rights to the property for a movie, was that no other television production company can make the series or anything related to it for not less than 10 years, as previously stated by others, if incompletely. Furthermore, the movie deal is for three pictures, right now... Universal can void the remaining two movies if the first doesn't do well; whether that's in terms of first-run theatrical gross only, or the combination of pay-tv receipts, DVD sales and rentals or whatnot, I don't know.

So, as others have stated, we should all be focused on Serenity's debut next April (2005). Save your money on DVDs, we've already made our point, and Universal got it, even if F*x never could. Invest that money in the movie, instead. F*x don't deserve to get any richer off the property than they already have. Now it's time to make Universal rich, and secure the future of those remaining two 'option' movies.

From an alternative perspective, if the movies do well, Universal Vivendi may decide to pony up some big coin to buy off F*x (lead-tight contracts were made to be broken/settled, right?) and put the show back on TV. That would be great; but, I think Joss is done with TV, at least for now. He sees this as his opportunity to move up to the big leagues, after toiling in the minors for, lo, these many years.

Do any of us begrudge him his 'shot at the bigs', especially considering the shite he's had to put up with the past couple of years in TV-land? I certainly don't. I don't think anyone here would either (with the possible exception of the aforementioned PurpleBelly, who I suspect thinks the movie will fail as a money maker and as art

).

I believe Serenity will be an overwhelming success, on both counts (I have a 'feeling'). Furthermore, I believe Joss will go on making great filmic stories for many years to come, unfettered by the censors and network 'audience analysts'. Some people talk about moviemakers with 'great vision'; Joss' gift is his ability to tell a story. I've never seen anyone do dialogue and characters better. I hope he's never forced to return to the 'small box' (except in feature-lengths for pay-cable, perhaps -- if he wants to?).

I also think that several, if not all, of the actors involved will get taken to the next level, too, and become *Movie Stars*. Those that can't make the transition to the big screen should nevertheless get plum roles on Big3 TV series.

In conclusion, it's best not to think of this as Firefly's death. Instead, think of it as a beloved child who's leaving home to start a life of its own. You may not see it as often as you'd like, but when you do see it, it will be mature and prosperous, and possessive of its own character and spirit, making its own decisions, right or wrong.

(EDIT: And don't forget the effect our love for her -- and all those who've participated in the project -- has had in shaping the lady she's become. How great must it have felt for those young actors to have received the 'rock star' treatment they got at SDCC? I'm so happy and proud, I could bust.)

Serenity belongs to herself now, not her abusive erstwhile parents, F*x TV. Let's let go of her childhood, and watch her shine.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 268 days, 4 hours, 22 minutes, and 59 seconds left until The BDM!

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:09 PM

i cant do it alone guys. so if you believe that this wont work. then i cant do it. Ill go to plan two. As someone said abve. When serenity comes out and if it does become a box office blockbuster networks will have something to think about and yes joss would have more for his argument. So then we have to go to this moive. I know many of you will several times anyways. But just keep going. Everyday that you have a chance to just go. You can fall asleep during it. which im sure you wont no matter how many times you have seen it. Or even just go to the box office buy a ticket and leave or give it to someone else. Like the first idea see it as a donation. A donation to the show we all love and want back and want more of. Cause if that movie doesnt go well. Thats it. that is our last chance. So just keep going to it over and over. Bring anyone you can. Lie to people if they arent into that sort of movie tell them its something else and thelly liek it. We have to be togethe ron this and do our part with this moive. and if you cant do that show your support that has meant so much to you. Then it really hasnt meant anything at all. We will Band together on this. We have to, or it all will be gone. Make it number one that weekend and make it number one the week after that and after that keep it there until someone finally understands that this show means alot to many many people. Unite!

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:16 PM

LASHER99

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Fox owns the rights for 10 years. Joss and Fox don't sound like they're very good friends right now. So give it 10 years.

This, my friends, is a prime example of what is wrong with the current state of copyright in America. Copyright was originally intended to ensure that a creator/artist had an opportunity to earn a living from their creation for a period of time, but then the work would get transferred to the public domain as part of our culture and/or benefit to society. Fox cancelled Firefly, the tv series, and has no plans to put it back on the air. They are done making any profit from the series. Finished. Yet they prevent another entity from taking what they disgarded and try it again (new creations from the old work) until after there is no reasonable expectation of success. Please tell be where the benefit is to society? This stuff really bugs the hell out of me.

After 10 years, our crew will have moved on to other projects and may be locked into contracts. They will be 10 years older and what kind of storyline leaps will we have to make? You tell me that after 10 years Simon and River haven't moved on, been "cured", been killed, been captured? Okay, we'll be left with Mal, Jayne, Wash, Kaleigh ,Zoe and possibly Inara (I know I've left Book out). But we've broken up part of the initial ensemble that drew us to the series in the first place. Given the proper storyline through the movies maybe it'll be done so a blow like this can work. I'm not optimistic. Funny thing is that I finally got my wife into the DVDs (after Objects in Space she asked "you mean that's it?"). I think there is a potential new audience now, and is ideally set up for a successful return to tv series format in September 2005, but this is not to be. Again, what benefit to society is our copyright law leaving us with?

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:15 PM

I'm still with you on the first plan, and I don't think it's as impossible as most here. Things change. When the series was first cancelled everyone was hoping it would find life on another network. The idea of a major movie release got some mention and most people shot it down as crazy. "Make a movie from TV show that didn't even make it a whole season? Yeah, right, good luck". We know how that worked out.

I do think Joss is fed up with TV, but he created Firefly as a series. The stories you can tell on a series are different than stories for the big screen. Joss has worked hard to become a master of that type of storytelling and I'm not so sure he'll be content with lijmitations of movie making. I think its one of the reasons he's worked in TV so far.

As far as his comments about it not going back to television... I think he's being a little political here. One of the things he had to do to get the movie made was convince them that it wasn't merely a springboard to re-launch the series. That's probably part of the reason for a sequels in the contract, athough I understand those clauses are pretty common.

Time is the biggest problem, but I'd make a long shot bet (but not for much) that we'll be hearing serious talks about reviving Firefly as a serial. Maybe not on broadcast tv, but there are other options. Joss just has too much story in him for one movie every two or three years.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:41 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

To repeat something that has been said time and time again, here and in many other places, the deal that Universal made for theatrical release was with 20th Century Fox, the production company, NOT the FOX television network. Joss has (or had) an exclusive contract with 20th to produce television shows, but those shows could be (and were) on networks other than FOX.

If, or when, Firefly/Serenity returns to TV, it would still be produced by 20th, unless that contract has expired by that time, and if so, Universal might be interested. Also, a revived Firefly could air on ANY network that cared to buy it. JOSS will probably never want to air a show on the FOX network again, but that does not mean he won't ever want to produce another television series.

I do not agree that we should not be encouraging people to buy the DVDs. FOX network is getting none of that money, just 20th Century Fox. 20th has supported this show and Joss from Day One, and if it was not for them we wouldn't have the DVDs or the upcoming BDM. The more people who see the DVDs, the more fans who will be eagerly anticipating Serenity.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:59 PM

SergeantX, et al:

Please don't misunderstand. Nothing would please me more than Firefly's return to series television. But I get the distinct impression that Joss wants to get out of the creative straight-jacket that television represents.

TV execs rewrite your stories. They screw up your story by making you tell it out of order, with the exposition winding up as denouement. They tell you your anti-hero has to be sunnier. They tell you your story doesn't test well with 14-25 year old males, and they need you to change it, now, this weekend, or you're not going to air.

Read some of Joss' interviews, as well as listening to the language his star -- Nathan Fillion -- uses when talking about Firefly as a future property. Nathan says he's focusing on the movie. Joss said he basically had no life of his own while fretting over 3 TV shows, and the whims of network execs didn't help. Alan Tudyk (fellow Texican) said its a 3-pic deal, with the last two dependent on how the first one does; he didn't say anything hope-worthy about a return to TV.

Again, I get the distinct impression that Joss -- and Tim, too -- would like to get out of the TV biz altogether. I think Joss wants the (relative) freedom that movies offer. I think he wants the money to spend on effects, costumes and interiors; not having to tell a great story with summer stock production values. Please note: I think the costumers and scenery designers did the best they could with what they could scrounge up from Fox Pictures prop warehouse, but...

(Nota Bene: please note that I do not refer to Fox Pics as 'F*x' as I do F*x TV. I think 20th Century Fox Motion Pictures believes in Joss, and may have had some positive influence in getting the movie rights released to Universal. F*x TV, on the other hand, couldn't pour piss out of a boot with directions on the heel.)

As far as Joss having a lot of story to tell, too much for one movie every two years: Hell, yeah! By switching to the silver screen, he'll be able to tell great stories, other stories, too! Don't limit JW to just FF, BtVS and Angel. He can do more than just fantasy/sci-fi, I'm sure of it.

He can write for TM and others. He can direct. He can exec produce. Mostly though, he can give us quality entertainment, unfiltered through network TV hacks.

I expect great things from Joss. The best is yet to come.

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 268 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 23 seconds left until The BDM!

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 5:22 PM

ecgordon wrote:

Quote:
I do not agree that we should not be encouraging people to buy the DVDs. FOX network is getting none of that money, just 20th Century Fox. 20th has supported this show and Joss from Day One, and if it was not for them we wouldn't have the DVDs or the upcoming BDM. The more people who see the DVDs, the more fans who will be eagerly anticipating Serenity.

Hmmm... Perhaps I misrepresented my position somewhat, here. Please allow me to restate, to clarify my stance.

I have a copy of the DVD set. I have given copies as gifts (twice). I would not hesitate to do so again, or to replace mine if/when they get too worn to play anymore. I think everyone should have a similar sentiment. Great art deserves (monetary) applause...

On the other hand, I do not support the idea of spending extraneous amounts of money on DVD sets for the sole and express purpose of showing F*x TV that Firefly -- pretty please -- should be brought back. That money would be better spent in appreciation of Universal getting Serenity flying again. Go see a Universal movie. Go see anything with one of our BDH's in it (I even sat through 'Dodgeball', for gawd's sake! Who thought that was a good idea?).

While it's sad that the geniuses who recognized JW's potential over at Fox Pics have to share a table with their idiot cousins over at F*x TV: That's life! I'm not saying to punish Fox Pics by boycotting DVDs (although I am boycotting F*x TV primetime), I'm just saying it makes better sense to reward Universal's good taste.

Fox Pics have every right to kick the sh*t out of F*x TV execs on sight, IMO, if this loses them money...

v/r,
zed

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Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:19 PM

This is the part of the thread where we all take positions and start quoting each other.

Just kidding guys.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:34 AM

As much as I hate to say it, I have to. Firefly is dead. But Serenity continues.

To be honest, I fell in love with Firefly, the series. I haven't yet fallen in love with Serenity, the film, although you can bet your arse that I'll be there for advance screenings and every day after that until the cinemas stop showing it. But I'd rather the series had continued. The story seems better suited to a series (naturally, because it was one).

But the series is dead. FOX have the rights for ten years, and no-one's waiting that long for it. I have sincere doubts that they'll let go of those rights so Universal, or others, can make money out of a new series. Praying for that seems foolish. Pray instead for more films. That's where our baby has gone.

That's not giving up. That's being realistic. It's the future, baby, and that's where our BDH's are.

JK

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:56 AM

SOUTHERNMERC

You might be right. The series might be dead, and the movies are the only thing left.

But, then again, there was no movie deal before the DVD's hit. And there were no DVD's til the fans hit.

I accept that, for this moment, there is only the "Serenity" movie coming up, with a possible two sequels. But I also know the power of the fans. We have all seen it here, and we might, hell, WILL see it again. If that changes a few minds, and puts this grand story back into a medium that can tell it over an extended period, without being compressed to fit into a handy two-hour window, then I'm happy, too.

Never give up folks. Be practical in your thinking, your day-to-day lives, but NEVER give up hope.

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 6:44 AM

You guys are saying the seris is dead? that there is no chance for it? and you call your self Browncoats still? The moive coudl bring back our show every week 4 hours a month in stead of having t wait a year for 2 hours. Movies spawn shows. Such as Buffy the Vampire slayer. How can you guys just give up hope and settle for something. Fans have a voice as many of you said getting the DVD set out and getting the movie deal, you cant give up. With this moive we could bring back everything we had hoped for. Never give up cause then we truly do lose. Fox still owns the rights to the show so they can still bring it back. Never lose hope! Unite!

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:06 AM

JUSTDAVID

You need to stop implying that we're not worthy of being called Browncoats. We've been supporting Firefly in lots of ways, and are smart enough to realize that right now the only outlet is movies. If someone comes up with a workable idea to bring the series back, we'll do whatever it takes. But just telling us to unite doesn't help.

"Light it."

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:11 AM

EMBASSY

Joss was pretty clear on a return to TV at the Comic Convention last Sunday: "Now that I've got them on the big screen, I can't imagine them on the small screen anymore."

He clarified that a return to TV wasn't impossible, but they were totally focused on the current movie, and getting picked up for a trilogy.

My impression, having shared a room with 4300 browncoats, is that the suits at Universal must have been thrilled at the turnout and enthusiasm. It leaves me wanting to go see other Universal pictures (The Bourne Supremacy, Thunderbirds, whatever) and if I could send the message that I was there in part because of Universal's support for Serenity I would.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 7:37 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I agree w/ Sarge; I think if the BDM is a hit then we could possibly hear about negotiations for a revival of the series. As I said above, the potential for money and ratings will cause Universal to move mountains if need be.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:06 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Hicks, I think you need to sit back and actually take a look at all the great stuff the fans have already achieved by uniting two years ago when the show was cancelled, rather than just telling them to unite now without any clear mission statement. We have a movie to look forward to, a series of movies in fact. How many other cancelled shows can say the same?
Joss Whedon used to say he'd do anything to get it back on TV, but again that was about two years ago. He's got it back in the form of movies, a form he is more than happy with. He's almost guaranteed 3 movies. The show CANNOT return contractually for a long time. Throw your enthusiasm into campaigning for the movie, rather than telling people what they need to do. Your enthusiasm comes off as insulting, and it looks like you think the fans did nothing until you signed up for the site yesterday.

check out my WIP firefly roleplay system at www.estador.co.uk/firefly

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Again, I get the distinct impression that Joss -- and Tim, too -- would like to get out of the TV biz altogether. I think Joss wants the (relative) freedom that movies offer.

I'm not entirely certain on that point - television does present a story-telling technique that simply isn't available in movies - the ability to go into detail, to develop characters gradually and to focus on individual matters for 45 minutes should you so wish (and the ability to go completely off the wall and turn in a musical or a puppet show once in a while).

The problem with movies, unless you are Spielberg, is that the money men still control things totally. Think they can't cancel a movie? Exorcist:The Beginning stands as the most recent example. Even Scorcese had to bow to the Weinsteins on Gangs of New York.

I think Joss is carving out a reputation in both TV and movies, giving him the opportunity to try and tell his tales in the best venue for each individual story.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 11:56 AM

LITTLEMANLOVESFIRE

You guys should probably realise that CAPTAINHICKS is taking the piss out of you / us?

Unite! Indeed...

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Littlemanlovesfire:
You guys should probably realise that CAPTAINHICKS is taking the piss out of you / us?
Unite! Indeed...

Oh, you cynic you - someone coming onto the board and posting just days ago and posting in just one topic?

Shame on you for having such cynical thoughts.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:05 PM

In keeping with SergeantX's fervent desire that we should quote one another and then debate the relative merits of others' arguments -- which I think is a great idea:

Misguided by Voices wrote:

Quote:
I'm not entirely certain on that point - television does present a story-telling technique that simply isn't available in movies - the ability to go into detail, to develop characters gradually and to focus on individual matters for 45 minutes should you so wish (and the ability to go completely off the wall and turn in a musical or a puppet show once in a while).

The problem with movies, unless you are Spielberg, is that the money men still control things totally. Think they can't cancel a movie? Exorcist:The Beginning stands as the most recent example. Even Scorcese had to bow to the Weinsteins on Gangs of New York.

I think Joss is carving out a reputation in both TV and movies, giving him the opportunity to try and tell his tales in the best venue for each individual story.

While I agree that a serial format has its advantages -- specifically, the ability to elaborate on smaller issues and build suspense on larger ones -- it also has severe limitations on network TV. Specifically, one must beware the censors, and one must be vigilant of Nielsen ratings and associated demographic data; you have to please the guys whose job it is to please the advertisers. In other words, salesmen. (Suddenly reminded of lyrics by Rush)

Movies have the advantage of cutting out most of the commercial filters between art and audience. Universal have been keeping their noses out of Joss' process thus far, according to reputable sources. I think they'll let him do it his way. The fan support seen at Cons and on the Internet should influence Universal to keep it that way. Just think if the original pilot Serenity had been a theatrical release: We might have seen Inara nekkid during that bathing scene... I know it's crass, but, hey, I'm a guy with perfectly good eyesight and natural drives. YoSafBridge in the buff? No apologies.

Lastly, I have never much appreciated the series TV characteristic 'cliff-hanger' episodes that leave one waiting all Summer for resolution. Of course, if JW decides to 'hang' one of the movies, we'll be in a worse state; but, I'll take my chances on that score. Since the fate of the next two movies depends on how the first does in receipts, I don't see Serenity having a non-ending. If we're gonna get 'cliffed', it'll happen at the end of movie #2, not #1 or #3.

I'd just like to join Joss, Nathan and Alan in asking folks to give the movie format a chance. You never know, you might like it better as a movie than you did as a series. In fact, I'm betting Joss' odds that you will...

A final thought: Debating a lawyer may be crazy, Misguided, but it's my kind of crazy...

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 267 days, 6 hours, 3 minutes, and 32 seconds left until The BDM!

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:09 PM

I also remember hearing Joss on the ComicCon mp3 saying that he definitely wants to see Firefly continue in every format. He's just focused on the movies right now. I honestly think that there are contract or political(within the industry) reasons why he isn't hyping a series return right now.

When the movie idea first started gaining momentum, Joss specifically mentioned the issue. He stressed that if Universal thought he was just trying to get the series back on the air they wouldn't take him seriously.

Maybe now that he's there he likes the movie format better. But I definitely think there's reason to believe he has at least the desire to see Firefly back as a series.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
In keeping with SergeantX's fervent desire that we should quote one another and then debate the relative merits of others' arguments -- which I think is a great idea...

Ahem,... There you go again, you're misrepresenting my position and distorting my argument. I for one believe that teh te thentn teh ast ttehsknt ,hs the, furtheremore, tebhhe theheht iesmri blah thiesj. There's plenty of evidence to support my positions.

Ok, dumb joke.

One thing, everyone seems to be thinking of a Firefly series on broadcast TV. That's far from the only option, and one I'd rather not see actually. Far better for HBO or Showtime to take it on. Other, less proven, options have been discussed, but I agree the limitations of broadcast television are not good for Firefly. I'm just after a format where we get more regular stories.

I'm thrilled that we're getting a movie though, so don't take it as a complaint that I want more.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:04 PM

SergeantX wrote:

Quote:
Ahem,... There you go again, you're misrepresenting my position and distorting my argument. I for one believe that teh te thentn teh ast ttehsknt ,hs the, furtheremore, tebhhe theheht iesmri blah thiesj. There's plenty of evidence to support my positions.

Which is exactly why you're one of my Most Quotable! It's precisely this sort of insightful commentary that makes me wonder why you haven't pursued a career in politics...

Or, perhaps, you have! You would happen to secretly be a Texican, or that guy who invented the Internet, would you?

v/r
zed

P.S.
No, I don't mean that poseur Tim Berners-Lee, either!

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:30 PM

This isnt what i wanted. I didnt want in fighting between the browncoats. I wanted to put an idea out there that people could rally behind like so many have before with all the other efforts you guys had made. Yeah i wasnt there to help out then but i am here to help now. I guess my ideas and plans didnt inspire the support i was hoping for but this movie truly is our last shot. Ill post later when I have formulated a better plan so get our show to return. This is our Serenity Valley and we cant lay down arms, we have to win this fight. Unite! and never lose hope Browncoats.

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 2:52 PM

Don't let the semi-witty banter fool you Capn, we're all on the same team here. Your suggestions are appreciated in spirit, but many of us have been through the darkest of days, grinding through all the options you mentioned. We haven't given up at all, we just have to follow what Joss thinks is best. Right now that's the movie. What he'll decide to do with it after that is really the issue. Thus, the discussion.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 3:58 PM

CaptainHicks:

Dude! We was playin'! Nobody takes themselves that seriously around here. SergeantX made a joke; I thought it was funny; I riffed on it. Didn't sound to me like anybody else was hurt or offended; if so, it was never my intent.

No hard feelings. Like I said in my original post to you, I can feel your pain vis a vis Firefly's cancellation. Someday, we may all get fired up about getting the show back on the air. But, right now we've got a movie to promote. Joss leads by example: he's focused on the movie, and so am I. Let's not put the cart before the proverbial horse...

Still friends?

Respectfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 267 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 34 seconds left until The BDM!

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:10 AM