reavers by est120

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

reavers

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Sunday, August 1, 2004 09:33
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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:43 PM

i was watching serenity today and i had a thought about the reavers. obviously, the reaver ship is quite a bit larger than serenity. thus, it seems there are probably a good number of reavers on the ship. mal states that he thinks it is "a raiding party". anyway, my question is, does it seem odd that the reavers would go to so much trouble to to capture one small ship? of course, if you follow the "cattle for the slaughter" philosophy, maybe it kind of makes sense since one "cow" probably feeds more than one individual. still, do people think the reavers would have attacked whitefall after capturing serenity? if not, what do people think the reavers did after serenity escaped?

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

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Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:59 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

If the Reaver population is growing, more ships would be essential for them, so capturing Serenity might have meant as much to them as feeding off the people inside.

Several months back someone else speculated about the Reavers ransacking Whitefall after Serenity escapes. Speculation is nice, but when you've got no info to go on, it's anybody's guess.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:01 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I do not think the Reavers hit Whitefall after Serenity & crew made their escape. If the Reavers had hit Whitefall it seems that news of the attack would have gotten around by the end of the series and it would have been mentioned.

Also, Mal guessed by the size of the ship that it was a Reaver raiding party. What Mal based his information on I have no idea. I am thinking that a raiding party would be hard pressed to contend w/ Patience and her hired guns. Patience and her band seem pretty well organized and armed, and according to the episode we are told that Patience has a large enough power base and enough influence to all but run Whitefall.

On the other hand, after the run in w/ Mal, some of Patience's boys are shot up, dead, or run off and Patience herself was left trapped under a dead horse. The Reavers could have pulled off a small raid and left before Patience was able to organize any sort of resistance. Still, seems something would have been mentioned about it if it happened. It would have made a great plot later in the series if Patience was after Mal for revenge because the Reavers he eluded landed on her moon and raided the community.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:07 AM

VMAN

Regarding the Reavers - when they come in to play in an episode - I feel the same feeling of dread I feel when the Borg make an appearance on Star Trek. Perhaps it's because both groups essentialy consume those they have contact with.

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 2:16 PM

THEGREYJEDI

If memory serves, I think the reaver ship gets all manner of blasted in Serenity when Wash hits full burn to clear the planet.

--------------------------------------------------
ZOE: Now we have a boatful of citizens right on top of our... stolen cargo. That's a fun mix.
MAL: Ain't no way in the 'verse they could find that compartment, even--Even if they were lookin' for it.
ZOE: Why not?
MAL: 'Cause... ?
ZOE: Oh yeah, this is gonna go great.
MAL: If anyone gets nosy, just, you know...shoot 'em.
ZOE: Shoot 'em?
MAL: Politely.

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 4:16 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

I always ponder two things regarding this episode:

1) Did they manage to destroy or disable the reaver ship during the full burn?

2) If they didn't destroy the Reavers did the Reavers raid Whitefall, and take "Lawerence" prisoner, or at least torture him a spell?

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:09 PM

SHOEFLY

If memory serves I think Lawerence was dead from a gun shot to the head by Mal. Your talking abot the Fed that was after River and Simon and tried to bribe Jayne? But still, I definately would not put it past the Reavers to use his carcas for all manner of unpleasentness.

Ooo, they have the internet on computers now. - H.J. Simpson

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Thursday, July 29, 2004 7:20 PM

SOUPCATCHER

One of the things I really liked about this part of the pilot was the way our BDHs handled the Reaver threat. They ran like hell and gave themselves the opportunity to get away. When you're merchants you just don't go up against Reavers. I figured the Reaver ship was not destroyed and probably not even disabled. I'm sure it was a bumpy ride for a while but ... they're Reavers running without core containment and a little turbulence isn't going to do them in. Maybe a few broken bones. Maybe even a few concussions. Maybe even a few Reavers made it onto the main course that night due to injury. But, to me, it was just another subtle note from Joss that these aren't the heroes who save the universe from evil, they're the people who are just trying to live another day. From the point of view of the crew what happened to the Reaver ship was unimportant.

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Friday, July 30, 2004 3:59 AM

KALIMEERI

It was my impression from what Zoe said that the reavers were more interested in taking the ship, which might be one reason they pursued it. The skins, etc. were secondary fun. Maybe the time delay between their first contact was long enough to get hungry, and the two ideas came together.

I think it was also Zoe who suggested that they would never be able to come around in time to follow Serenity, so it's safe to assume that they were probably knocked off course and shaken up, but not destroyed, unless they crash-landed. I just can't see a single reason why they wouldn't stop off on the planet, since they were so close and Serenity was gone. They may also need repairs.

Most likely news of the raid would be dependent on Mal talking to the right information source. Whitefall was pretty far off the beaten track, and the Alliance probably wouldn't feature a reaver attack on Page 1 of the Blue Sun Times, anyway.

Jen dao mei.

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Friday, July 30, 2004 4:06 AM

FEMALEJAYNE

I think the reavers might not have wanted to fight a whole town/plant after just having possibly raided. Probably they were just playing with Serenity. Letting them think they passed because a surprised crew is much easier to take than a crew that's getting ready to fight to the death. Mal probably guess the number of reavers based on how many it would take to opterate a ship that large and still have some folk left to broad in case of attacking another ship.

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

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Friday, July 30, 2004 4:29 AM

WITLESSCHUM

Howdy, first time caller,
My theory is that any decision on a Reaver ship can break out into a battle. (like the Orcs in "the Two Towers") I mean if they're too savage to not rape, eat and wear you, they probably can't be made to do anything, but by force.

So, those who wanted to go wherever they were going vs. those who wanted to chase Serenity tore each other's arms off until the side that said chase Serenity wins out.

Mal suggests they're not hugely rational when he says, if we run they'll chase us, it's their way.

Or if they're a bit more rational than that, they headed where they were going, found the target was too heavily defended or not there and followed back along Serenity's course.

I think they survived for the above mentioned reasons, but I don't think they attacked Whitefall.

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Friday, July 30, 2004 5:26 AM

DIXIEFLATLINE

On the Reavers' capacity for rational decision-making: I think one of the most telling hints at this is in "Bushwhacked". If you look at the life-signs monitor in the Alliance cruiser's sickbay while they're trying to treat the proto-Reaver, you see it flashing a red "ABNORMAL" indicator as he goes into convulsions. Then he pops his scalpel out of his sleeve and starts slashing, and as blood splashes across the monitor, we see it change to a green "NORMAL".

So for whatever reason (and ain't there just a whole bunch of speculation about that), the Reavers seem to respond to stress with a physiological need to kill. Whatever consensus they reach is going to be heavily based on who's not bleeding to death on the floor at the end of the discussion...

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Friday, July 30, 2004 8:56 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by witlesschum:
Mal suggests they're not hugely rational when he says, if we run they'll chase us, it's their way.

Or if they're a bit more rational than that, they headed where they were going, found the target was too heavily defended or not there and followed back along Serenity's course.

okay, then here is another thought. wash says that the reavers ship is running "without core containment". which he terms "suicide". with that in mind, it seems that the reavers do not fear death and ships running without core containment possibly break down or maybe even explode with some regularity. with this in mind, does anyone think that the reavers are really "rational"?

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

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Friday, July 30, 2004 2:45 PM

THEREALME

Well, I kinda doubt that the Reavers ran without core containment just to prove how tough they were. Probably, without the extra weight of shielding, their ship had a much better acceleration than it would otherwise have.

The Real Me

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Friday, July 30, 2004 3:17 PM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Well, I kinda doubt that the Reavers ran without core containment just to prove how tough they were. Probably, without the extra weight of shielding, their ship had a much better acceleration than it would otherwise have.

The Real Me

actually, i thought it would be more of "they do not know any better" kind of thing.

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

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Friday, July 30, 2004 7:11 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
Originally posted by shoeFly:
If memory serves I think Lawerence was dead from a gun shot to the head by Mal. ....

...Ooo, they have the internet on computers now. - H.J. Simpson

I thought he winged him in the shoulder.

Love the Homer quote.

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Friday, July 30, 2004 11:46 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Well, I kinda doubt that the Reavers ran without core containment just to prove how tough they were. Probably, without the extra weight of shielding, their ship had a much better acceleration than it would otherwise have.

The Real Me

You know at first I thought Wash's comment also meant some sort of radiation shielding. It could also mean they have no way to stop a critical buildup in their power plant. Perhaps running without core containment allows them to get more power out of a power plant of a given size? The downside being that if something happens the engine doesn't shut down gracefully, but goes ker-blooie in a big and spectacular way.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:08 AM

CALHOUN

Quote:
est120 wrote:
Wednesday, July 28, 2004 12:43
i was watching serenity today and i had a thought about the reavers. obviously, the reaver ship is quite a bit larger than serenity. thus, it seems there are probably a good number of reavers on the ship. mal states that he thinks it is "a raiding party". anyway, my question is, does it seem odd that the reavers would go to so much trouble to to capture one small ship? of course, if you follow the "cattle for the slaughter" philosophy, maybe it kind of makes sense since one "cow" probably feeds more than one individual. still, do people think the reavers would have attacked whitefall after capturing serenity? if not, what do people think the reavers did after serenity escaped?

I always assumed it entirely possible/probable the reavers might hit Whitefall. Mals earlier statement "Rubics Dead - His town got hit by reavers, burned it right down" I believe lends credance to that assumption.

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 5:13 AM

THEREALME

And maybe a TOWN on Whitefall could get hit by these Reavers. But there could be many towns on Whitefall that survive okay.

The Real Me

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 5:38 AM

PURPLEBELLY

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
I thought he winged him in the shoulder.

Getting dropped on his head and broiled by the engines probably ruined his day, tho

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 6:46 AM

TIGERSHARK

Nope, he definitely shot him in the head. BAM! But on the commentary for the ep, joss and Malcolm discuss how much they were looking forward to the character coming back. Or maybe the actor coming back. Which is weird. But all hail the mighty Joss - he'd have come up with something brilliant. Sigh.

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:49 PM

CALHOUN

Quote:
TheRealMe wrote:
Saturday, July 31, 2004 05:13
And maybe a TOWN on Whitefall could get hit by these Reavers. But there could be many towns on Whitefall that survive okay.

Quibbling over semantics now are we...

Point is Reavers do on occasion hit groundsiders.

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 2:01 PM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by tigershark:
Nope, he definitely shot him in the head. BAM! But on the commentary for the ep, joss and Malcolm discuss how much they were looking forward to the character coming back. Or maybe the actor coming back. Which is weird. But all hail the mighty Joss - he'd have come up with something brilliant. Sigh.

maybe he would get turned into a reaver.

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:21 PM

THEREALME

Absolutely Reavers hit towns, cities, farms. But the impression that I was getting from various posts (perhaps incorrectly) was that if the Reavers hit Whitehall/Whitefall, then the place is HISTORY. I was just pointing out that the moon's inhabitants could survive largely intact.

Could be that one town would be destroyed. That being said, it is also possible that the moon only had one town.

The Real Me

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Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:25 PM

GUNRUNNER

Naw I don't think the Reavers hit Whitefall because Patience said "Alliance don't scare me" now I don't think they don't scare her because she’s so far out of their way that they leave her alone, I think that she’s got some firepower packed away so that when the Alliance comes for her their in for a nasty surprise.

Now the Reavers Trans-U had no visible weapons except that mag grappler so it’s very vulnerable if Patience has a few MANPAD SAMs (like the Stinger or SA-7) or AAA guns (IE the big gun Mal used at Serenity Valley) sitting around from the war. Even tho Patience is in the middle of nowhere these weapons (especially AAA guns) are dirt cheap and low tech yet effective.

Also Whitefall is a moon of Athens so I think help is close by.

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Sunday, August 1, 2004 9:33 AM

EVENTHORIZON

I don't think it's a matter of them doing it to be tough. I think the Reavers as a group are barely aware of what's around them- sure some can pilot- but ship's maintnence isn't something they worry about asides from it being able to move.

I don't think all Reavers fly without containment- I just don't think that particular ship cared- which would eventually kill them... that's why Wash called it suicide. Unless of course from going to the ends of the galaxy or universe (I forget which) and being exposed to space radiation gave them resistance to other forms of radiation... but they never said that, so I don't know!

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