Had Firefly done Seven seasons... What ending would have suited you? by TheSomnambulist

... fully loaded, safety off...

"All the comings and goings of couples are what people want to watch on Firefly,"

Ewww... that is actually the farthest thing from why I watched Firefly, and seeing continued obsession with pairings between crew members is one of the fan wankiest things I wish would get ditched. If it's a "Joss thing" then it's the Joss thing I like the least. It's as if to say there's no one else in the entire 'verse, all that Story serves is how to mix and match, that FF is ultimately a soap opera with costumes. I love those characters, that's why I don't want to see them used like that. "Wouldn't it be neat if Mal and Kaylee got together??"
I watched for the uniqueness of the story telling - Jaynestown, how the hell did Edlund come up with that story? completely unique to the 'verse - coupling stories are so un-unique. Sorry!
More on that - Thinking of all the characters Joss has created I would think fans of his would be excited by the idea of new characters from which new 'ships could happen, not just limiting the possibilities to who we know.
Also, the story gets more weight if we look at this crew as a group that just came together - Out of Gas - and this is just a moment in time, one story of thousands that are going on in the 'Verse. That slice of time - and I'm not referring to the cancellation and few eps - makes it seem more intense, that because of the way the 'verse worked people tended to drift in and out of each other's lives, and occasionally they have an amazing adventure together.

I think if you look at what drives each character you can have a sense of what might be still driving them in season 7.

Mal - Freedom. However and wherever he can to find it. I like the idea of his struggle for that simple idea leading him to where he's not a Captain, where in order to survive he has to do things he doesn't like or ever imagine he would have to do. He's done some pretty bad things but through it all he's had this image of himself deep down as a Good person (not just pretty alright, he was joking). He could steal because the end game was always to do good. What if the things he had to do for that ideal got gradually worse and worse?
Also, for some Joss pain - he's always been in charge to some extent, always been able to fall back on Serenity... that's why he has to lose it. Mal without Serenity? Broken, alone, having to do really really bad things... almost a reverse on Book, a holding over the volcano.

Zoe - Service - in a way that's not a stretch to motherhood. I'm not sure she could stay at home if another war broke out though - she's military.

Simon - Truth, protecting Life. I can see him joining a new independence movement full time.

River - Sanity. I see her getting lost, just trying to get away from everyone, tired of Simon's constant attention, tired of running, and also; she wants to keep the crew safe and knows getting away from them safe guards them. So she wanders and eventually finds work that is as inconspicuous as possible, Paper Shuffler, Dock Worker, whatever to blend in. But... trouble always seems to find her and her "skills" always seem to be needed. Hard to hide when you are one of the 2 characters (Mal is the other) that the whole story of Firefly is centered around!

Jayne - Cashy money - I see the right woman getting Jayne to settle down and raise a family. Family was important to him. But not until season 7. In the end I see Jayne having the best, most stable relationship of any of them.

Kaylee - Finding love? But not Simon. That's a close proximity fling only, they're not compatible beyond that. BFFs. Kaylee's very young, she might end up following a charismatic fanatic for a while. After breaking with Simon and getting bored with Mal's petty thieving, she looks for something else where her skills and herself, are valued, and she finds that in a small rebel group - the forefront of a larger revolt that comes later. Only this one ends badly.

Inara - I don't think Inara knows what drives her. Independence maybe - it's one of the things she sees in Mal that she's attracted too. A purpose? Teaching at the Guild? She'll wander away from Mal just as Simon/Kaylee fizzles - their just too different. Inara will be successful at whatever she tries. Maybe she starts her own school?

Finale? Their lives intertwine one more time for one more adventure over a 3 ep finale.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:19 AM

The breakout character Tyssa would sacrifice herself to save the ship, even though we would know that she would be back in the third film anyway.

We'd finally see an end to the overly soupy relationship between Zoe and Jayne which was really just demeaning to the both of them, if not the whole ship, and had been dragging us down for the last 3 seasons.

The outer rim coalition with the reavers would fall apart when they backstabbed us which will annoy all the viewers because we will wonder why River, who was acting as the bridge between them, didn't see it coming.

Mal's twin brother would die after impersonating Mal in a heroic action. Late comers will think this is cheesy, but those who had been with the show for some time saw it come from the moment he was wrong-handed.

Kaylee's gay realtionship with Inara will end mercifully when one of them dies pointlessly.

Saffron, the ship's pilot, will end up settling with Simon on a planet created in River's mind.

Taking Niska on as a crew-member, though the only mercifully thing to do, and logical from his perspective will turn out to have been disastrous for Serenity.

The tentacled things will turn out to be sweet and caring after all, and this will make some viewers ill, and other viewers, who always thought it was a mistake to mix in standard issue aliens will simply add them to their wall next to their Ewok dartboard.

When the alliance implodes into a black whole that they themselves created as a weapon, fans are a little irked at the show's failure to recognize the citizenry there as people, but remain convinced we haven't seen the last of Blue Sun based on a small 3 second shot at the end of the finale, that the rest of us felt wasn't necessary to reach that conclusion.
Hey, it's a TV show. That it delivers each week for 7 years without handing you mindless dribble would be a miracle.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:21 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Seeing continued obsession with pairings between crew members is one of the fan wankiest things I wish would get ditched. If it's a "Joss thing" then it's the Joss thing I like the least. It's as if to say there's no one else in the entire 'verse, all that Story serves is how to mix and match, that FF is ultimately a soap opera with costumes. I love those characters, that's why I don't want to see them used like that. "Wouldn't it be neat if Mal and Kaylee got together??"

Some teens and twenty-somethings have an obsessive fascination with the sex lives of the famous. Personally, I don't and I don't want much of that mixed into my Sci-Fi shows; I'm already getting enough in the real world. I'd be happy if Firefly Season 2 through 7 had a little less than Season 1 about the mating dances between Inara/Mal, Mal/Kaylee, Kaylee/Simon, Zoe/Mister ? , River/Jayne. Jayne! Was there ever someone more unsuitable for a genius? Only Jayne/Zoe could be worse. Zoe switching from Wash to Jayne is so very wrong.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:13 AM

Quote:
Ewww... that is actually the farthest thing from why I watched Firefly, and seeing continued obsession with pairings between crew members is one of the fan wankiest things I wish would get ditched.

Yeah... Guilty as charged. It's silly, I know. Normally I've always been more about the action, and all this romance stuff I admit I focus on is just embarrassing. It's not that the stuff isn't there, this is a swashbuckling space opera and all, but all out of proportion to the much more predominating elements of the show. Such as crime, day-to-day struggle and anti-authoritarianism.

But at least we don't fight so much anymore. The fans of each pairing mostly just keep to themselves now. So that's good. The ship to ship combat you just saw was fairly mild compared to some battles I've seen.

Quote:
completely unique to the 'verse - coupling stories are so un-unique. Sorry!

Well, to be fair, Joss' coupling stories generally aren't remotely like the predictable rom-coms or sit-coms. I mean, lookit Our Mrs. Reynolds. That was a coupling story, and a friggin' hilarious and twisted one.

There's ways to write one and have it still be unexpected. Probably one of the reasons Joss gets as wide a range an audience as he does is that he can turn any story on it's head and have it be enjoyable.

So there probably also has to be some fanfiction writers who can manage the same even with ship pairings.

Just kinda have to stand and defend my fellow authors a little here, so don't mind me. Fanfic is kinda whats been keeping the firefly verse going for a while now, and a LOT of that is shipping.

Quote:
not just limiting the possibilities to who we know.

Sure. I'd really like to see the futuristic take on a Native American character, seeing how there's so many Western elements at play here. Probably they'd be so well intermingled with the population at that point you wouldn't see much difference behaviour wise, but every now and then there'd be just a hint of an alternative perspective. Plus then you can explore stories about Alliance taking away children "for their own good," like the old Christian missionaries and the government used to do.

Mal: Agree with the loss of Serenity (I like the idea of them sacrificing Serenity to get at Blue Sun like I said before), although I'm not sure how Mal could sink much lower in his down-ward spiral and still be on a hero arc.

And if he's not on a hero arc, then it just becomes gratuitous angst. Kudos for recognizing the downward spiral, though.

I also disagree on Mal's self-image, I don't think he believes he's actually a good person at all. He seems to beat himself up pretty thoroughly to me, and for all he tries to act enthusiastic about the crime and sticking it to the man, it's also clear to me that he's never been able to force himself to ignore that what he does probably hurts people less fortunate than him. He tries to take only mildly unethical jobs as a balm for his conscience, but his conscience is still kinda limping along with it.

Jose Molina explored the possibilities of Mal without a ship in Take the Sky, have you read it? It's pretty good. In a way Mal stops being a hero like you've suggested, but not in the way you'd expect.

I also like Mal desperate struggle stories though, especially involving the loss of Serenity. Maybe I'll link you this one really good fanfiction where they crash into some valuable mineral real estate, and the people who own the excavation are threatening to blow up Serenity unless Mal goes and hunts down some rebels and bandits. I bet you'd like it.

River: That sounds good.

Jayne: What, really? Jayne in a relationship loses what's so much fun and cool about Jayne. Hmm.

Plus he can barely stand seeing Zoe and Wash when they're all mature and loving. In the comics he suggests that they're going to make him ill if they keep at it much longer. I don't think Jayne Cobb has much romance, companionship (and not the guild kind), or even appreciation for either in him.

Inara: A combination of independence, wanting to see the verse, and just trying to keep going for as long as she can. But she's getting tired, very tired, and sometimes just living isn't all that easy.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:17 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well, to be fair, Joss' coupling stories generally aren't remotely like the predictable rom-coms or sit-coms. I mean, lookit Our Mrs. Reynolds. That was a coupling story, and a friggin' hilarious and twisted one.

Absolutely agree with you on that example, and if I'm going to trust anyone with making relationships unique it would be Joss. I think I react negatively even more because Fillion catches a new show and it's "will they get together?" Gah! And in FF's case, there's so much to that 'verse to explore.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Mal: Agree with the loss of Serenity (I like the idea of them sacrificing Serenity to get at Blue Sun like I said before), although I'm not sure how Mal could sink much lower in his down-ward spiral and still be on a hero arc.

And if he's not on a hero arc, then it just becomes gratuitous angst. Kudos for recognizing the downward spiral, though.

That's been one of the questions of the show for me is: is Mal a Hero? In the movie I would say no question, he sure was acting like one. In the series he seemed to flirt with that but ultimately - and this is why I liked him - he seemed more selfishly motivated.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I also disagree on Mal's self-image, I don't think he believes he's actually a good person at all. He seems to beat himself up pretty thoroughly to me, and for all he tries to act enthusiastic about the crime and sticking it to the man, it's also clear to me that he's never been able to force himself to ignore that what he does probably hurts people less fortunate than him. He tries to take only mildly unethical jobs as a balm for his conscience, but his conscience is still kinda limping along with it.

I think his quick decision in The Train Job to return the stolen medicine - as he says, "no other option," gave me the impression that that's who he thinks he is, a Good Man, at least toward the people scratching out a living.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Jose Molina explored the possibilities of Mal without a ship in Take the Sky, have you read it? It's pretty good. In a way Mal stops being a hero like you've suggested, but not in the way you'd expect.

I also like Mal desperate struggle stories though, especially involving the loss of Serenity. Maybe I'll link you this one really good fanfiction where they crash into some valuable mineral real estate, and the people who own the excavation are threatening to blow up Serenity unless Mal goes and hunts down some rebels and bandits. I bet you'd like it.

I haven't read the story by Molina - I'll have to find it. I'd be interested in that link too, thx - I've only read a few fanfics and mostly Gwek & Crew's http://stillflying.net which I really enjoyed.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Jayne: What, really? Jayne in a relationship loses what's so much fun and cool about Jayne. Hmm.
Plus he can barely stand seeing Zoe and Wash when they're all mature and loving. In the comics he suggests that they're going to make him ill if they keep at it much longer. I don't think Jayne Cobb has much romance, companionship (and not the guild kind), or even appreciation for either in him.

I said not until season 7! I agree; I don't want to lose what's great about Jayne - an almost professional pride in being course and underhanded, and yet he can be loyal… to a point. No romance? Did you see how sweetly he talked to that "whore" about what order to give him his guns when the fighting got started? He has it in him.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Inara: A combination of independence, wanting to see the verse, and just trying to keep going for as long as she can. But she's getting tired, very tired, and sometimes just living isn't all that easy.

This is a close call: is she the most tragic character in this story? She starts out as this Queen almost and gradually things get taken away. Does it end tragically for her or does she find some kind of peace? Both? She may be one of the most likable and respected of all the characters beside Mal, but that just makes her more tragic in a way.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:35 AM

VERASAMUELS

And eventually, more or less what I wrote in my epic long fanfic arc:-

Jayne finding a steady woman [they get married later]

A Maori warrior priest who helps River

The truth about the Companion set up revealed

Inara gives up being a Companion as a result [she doesn't know about the truth beforehand]

Jayne's parents

The Alliance get feisty

The Triad capture Jayne and his woman

An oriental female sensei [and prostitute] helps the crew with martial arts' training

Thrilling heroics

The Mudders' Jayne bot revealed

Browncoat Uprising [think 'Les Miserables' barricade dialled up to 11]

Reaver Hunter squad

Hold out at the great Stronghold

Mal strongarmed/forced into being the new 'Verse President [he'd HATE that!]

River finds her prince and rescues him from a high tower

A journey along a river through the desert

Some of The Reavers adapting into more of an ant colony set-up

Carnival Fireflies [like a travelling circus]

Rescue of a whole lot of children from some kind of slavery/prison

A new settlement on Jayne's home planet, with a land based home for the remaining crew and offspring, plus a custom made orphanage for all those children.

A bar fight with a f*ck load of cutlery ['Hot Fuzz' !]

Serenity doing simple jobs hauling food and other supplies to and from new settlement

20 odd years later:

River now has a f/f romantic relationship.

Mal is older, greyer and alone, but content.

One of Kaylee's sons gets together with Zoe's daughter

Zoe in new relationship with a friend of Maori priest. No more babies, though.

Jayne and his wife surrounded by large numbers of adopted kids and their offspring. He's also older, more scarred and greyer, but happy.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:01 AM

I'm going to reign in my initial urge to gush for hours about Inara, I think everyone will appreciate that.

Quick note though: much as Joss is pretty ambiguous between his decrying exploitation and glorifying it, I don't think in this case it's Inara's profession that supposed to be the source of the admiration. While I don't think her profession is wrong, and I'm not one of those who believes the Guild is evil, I also get the impression that the upper crust types who just admire her for being a Companion are pretty shallow, and also in a number of cases a little backhanded.

Suffice to say tragedy yes. Though considering how secretive Joss and Co are being even after the leak, I'm starting to wonder.

Quote:
No romance? Did you see how sweetly he talked to that "whore" about what order to give him his guns when the fighting got started? He has it in him.

Unusual definition you got there... Really, that just says to me that Jayne isn't a woman abuser, more than he has a hankering or inclination to settle down with just one lady and be a family man. Maybe he'll turn into a polygamist after rescuing a whole brothel, because I have trouble imagining him and monogamy in the same sentence.

I also notice he has trust issues, but that's probably blatantly stating the obvious.

Quote:
I think I react negatively even more because Fillion catches a new show and it's "will they get together?"

Erg. Yeah. It was started out an okay cop show, I still like the comedy, but the thematics and the side focus started to bug me about the middle of season 2. A show should still be able to come up with plots even after relationship tension gets resolved, and not resolving it starts to get a little ridiculous.

Quote:
In the series he seemed to flirt with that but ultimately - and this is why I liked him - he seemed more selfishly motivated.

Would you believe I had this very argument with the person who introduced me to Firefly not one week ago?

Only we were using terms from D&D (Yes, I'm a geek), like "Is Mal Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral?" Neutral is normally defined by a person looking out for themselves (and possibly family/friends/romantic interests) in a non-malicious manner. We both agreed that Jayne, at least, is classic Chaotic Neutral. But Mal is more "good" than Jayne, so where is his alignment?

Eventually we agreed that both interpretations were probably valid. I still say a lot of his more selfish seeming moments are actually a jerk-ass facade and feeble excuses though, such as telling Book he was keeping River (and Simon) on for the fare they could pay them, when their bank accounts had been frozen by then.

I think he needs to think he's bad for various reasons, not least of which is guilt over people who have died under his command and potentially guilt about his crisis of faith. He's lying to himself about things. Actually, I think a lot of the characters on Serenity are lying to themselves about things, which is part of what makes them so interesting.

Quote:
I think his quick decision in The Train Job to return the stolen medicine - as he says, "no other option," gave me the impression that that's who he thinks he is, a Good Man, at least toward the people scratching out a living.

I think we're seeing actual Mal then. The facade Mal tries to be bad, but the actual Mal can't help doing the right thing when he's faced with it. Later on I imagine Mal reasoned it away as, "Well, of course we had to give the medicine back. They woulda put us in jail. Again." But the Sherriff saw the real, the raw, and let him go.

Quote:
I'd be interested in that link too

I'll get it for you tonight, it's on my favourites list on fanfiction.net so it shouldn't take long.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:48 AM

I'm going to endorse whoever said Jayne+Saffron=<3 This would be the most entertaining relationship I can picture.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:27 AM

Jayne falls for a trap set by Saffron, intended for the rest of the crew, or at least Mal. He wakes up drugged and naked with an irate redhead, who we quickly find out has been tracked down by a former surviving husband and his goons. They have to shoot their way out, and race to steal transport off world, with Saffron beating out Jayne in the end and leaving him in some real peril.

So begins the story of a loathe that will last the ages as an unfettered gunman and viciously cunning femme fatale chase each other across the verse stealing, brawling, and getting into compromising positions.

Sometimes with other people!

The series will explore the depths of Jayne's guile and reveal the terrible secret of why Saffron is batnuts. Each episode opens with a recap, in the form of a testosterone laden letter to home, from Jayne, where he exaggerates his successes and lies about the bad turns of the previous episode.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:07 AM

MACBAKER

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
It's not often a TV has the chance to end they way the creators envisage. Such is the case with our beloved Firefly.
So I'm wondering, in an ideal world had Firefly run it's course of the supposed seven seasons, what finalé can you envisage where you as a viewer would have been satisfied with it's conclusion.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

Simple Joss math is needed here. Nine characters, one killed off per season in some pointless and shocking manner, leaving Zoe and River alone on the ship in the series finale, doing a "Thelma & Louise" with Serenity into the last remaining Alliance Cityship, destroying it and freeing the Verse from Alliance meddling once and for all!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:17 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I like Byte's Jayne/Saffron story, he wanted her ... now she's got him. :)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:58 PM

And here's where I show my not-such-a-good-fan-wanker side. I think it's silly to guess details, because the only thing we can be sure about is that the verse seven years later would be completely different and completely unexpected. Who the hell watched the first season of Angle and thought Angel would end up running the evil law firm, and have a son who'd had an evil grandchild thing with Cordie then gone crazy? Who watched the first season of Buffy and figured... well, any damned thing that happened by Season 7?

The only things to be sure of about Firefly's unrealized future: major events would have changed the main characters. They would have ended up in situations that no one would expect from the scant info of 14 episodes. They would have made bizarre decisions that really wouldn't be so bizarre given the events of seasons 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6. New characters would've appeared and played major roles, and they'd be as beloved as the ones we met in season 1. There would have been entirely new settings, new "homes", new twists, new plots.

But please gods of Joss sci-fi fiction, those new plots would never ever be purely based on who's bopping who. Thank you, pizmo, for calling that out. There is so much more to this show than soap opera pairings, and it grieves me to see people reducing it to that. Characters bumping uglies with other characters is fun and all, but if that's all a story has it's nothing. The bizarre social and political background that Serenity floats through is where the real goods are at.

A-hem. OK, so after that rant I'll make one guess: this plot was going towards "bigger" things, ie Blue Sun and the Alliance. I think it would have gone there physically. As in, at least a few of our favorite characters would have lived in the Core, allowing Joss to reveal the dirty secrets and strange ways of the civilized worlds. Like Buffy got into and tore down the distant Watcher's Council, like Angel revealed Wolfram & Hart and TPTB, Mal and crew would have gone into and beyond Blue Sun and the Alliance.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:53 PM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Would you believe I had this very argument with the person who introduced me to Firefly not one week ago?

Only we were using terms from D&D (Yes, I'm a geek), like "Is Mal Chaotic Good, or Chaotic Neutral?" Neutral is normally defined by a person looking out for themselves (and possibly family/friends/romantic interests) in a non-malicious manner. We both agreed that Jayne, at least, is classic Chaotic Neutral. But Mal is more "good" than Jayne, so where is his alignment?

Eventually we agreed that both interpretations were probably valid. I still say a lot of his more selfish seeming moments are actually a jerk-ass facade and feeble excuses though, such as telling Book he was keeping River (and Simon) on for the fare they could pay them, when their bank accounts had been frozen by then.

I think he needs to think he's bad for various reasons, not least of which is guilt over people who have died under his command and potentially guilt about his crisis of faith. He's lying to himself about things. Actually, I think a lot of the characters on Serenity are lying to themselves about things, which is part of what makes them so interesting.

"Lying to themselves about things" = human condition. I'd bet that the most trustable, straight arrow poster here does that on a regular basis. Mal has some lame, jerky moments for sure, but he always seems to salvage it by being the coolest Captain (and maybe luckiest in a way) that you'd want to be with. I didn't say Best Captain (Picard?) but funny enough, being imperfect also makes him cool. Do people use "cool" to mean cool any more? Is there a new post 2010 word for "cool?"

I think you have touched on something that never gets enough mention unless in fanfic, and I don't read near enough, so maybe my bad; "not least of which is guilt over people who have died under his command." He's unavoidably shaped by that trauma. When I hear him say, "Do the job" that's always seemed related to that experience, like, "OK, new rules. Never again. I'm never going to risk so much for so many to lose so much ever again." "Do the job" means, "I'm only going to do what I have to for my immediate, much smaller crew, and NO ONE ELSE. See this circle? If you are outside of it, die or live or make mud pies, I could care less." Caring outside of it costs too much and gives nothing back. Never again. "Do the job." And yet, for some reason, he can't always seem to stick to that.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:04 PM

Mal, thanks, well put. See my post above. Also, ECGordon who beat me to it.

Fact is, at just over a dozen eps in:

Buffy's love was Angel. Spike was not a character. Anya was not a character. Faith was not a character. There was only one slayer. Willow was not a witch. Andrew was not a character. The First was not the enemy, the Magic Box was not a location, Sunnydale High was a location, Cordelia was a major character, who was not yet dating Xander, as wasn't Anya, Willow was not gay, and even not yet dating Oz.

Similarly:

Farscape, Scorpius was not an ally, nor an enemy, nor a character. Neither was Graza. Neither was Granny three-eyes, nor Sikozu, nor Jool. Chiana wasn't even a character. The main mission was not defeating the Scarrans, (what's a scarran?) Or peace with peacekeepers, it was getting back to Earth. Zaan was a character, as was Krais.

Lexx was not battling Prince, but his Divine Shadow, and while Prince is an awesome enemy, I'm afraid this time His Divine Shadow is one of my all time favorite enemies.

By the time Blake's 7 reaches it's conclusion, Blake hasn't been a character in ages, and there has been a fairly major cast change.

Those are the only four space pirate genre shows I can think of unless you count red dwarf which I don't really because it's a sitcom and not really a space opera.

Bebop: Eddie and Ein were not characters until fairly late.

Seriously though, if the Mal-Inara romance carried on for 7 seasons I'd go insane-r.

Angel, Illyria was not a character, neither was Lorn, I don't even think Gunn was a character, we didn't work for Wolfram and Hart, Leslie and Lila did, and they were our enemies. There was no big cat upstairs, but a little girl, or something ancient and evil that liked to dress up as a little girl. Wes was not a character, and neither was Spike.

So, yes, people would be working for the Alliance, and Blue Sun. I should'a seen that coming. Kudos.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:20 PM

:)

Also, I found the story. It's longish, but, well, it has lots of merits.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1996576/1/Reliance

DT: "Seriously though, if the Mal-Inara romance carried on for 7 seasons I'd go insane-r."

Of course. I don't think even the most die-hard of my fellow shippers thinks that the will-they-won't-they would drag on THAT long... Or even that there isn't a likelyhood that they'd break up several times and have side pairings.

But, I've tried to not comment much on this and indulge in the behaviour that has gotten us so rebuked.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:47 PM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
:)

Also, I found the story. It's longish, but, well, it has lots of merits.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1996576/1/Reliance

DT: "Seriously though, if the Mal-Inara romance carried on for 7 seasons I'd go insane-r."

Of course. I don't think even the most die-hard of my fellow shippers thinks that the will-they-won't-they would drag on THAT long... Or even that there isn't a likelyhood that they'd break up several times and have side pairings.

But, I've tried to not comment much on this and indulge in the behaviour that has gotten us so rebuked.

Thank you Byte, I'm looking forward to reading this.

DT - you seem in a huff about this stuff, sometimes I think you need a purpoise.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
So, yes, people would be working for the Alliance, and Blue Sun. I should'a seen that coming. Kudos.

Good summary of other series DT. I guess I should admit that Buffy and Angel underwent huge changes in part because Joss was figuring out cast size as he went (he admitted as much on some commentary or another.) So maybe he didn't plan such a drastic expansion of cast for Firefly. But there had to be some changes. You can't have 7 seasons of the same space cowboy adventures.

BTW, I'm not thinking of the crew working for the Alliance necessarily. Just being near it or inside its society in some way. And there would likely be recurring characters on that side of the line. It was just such a big hook, all the hints at the big bad Blue Sun. The Core provides a perfect contrast of setting and change of tone and expansion of plot from what we saw. Joss had to mean to go there, imho.

Mal and Inara splitsville? Sadly, I think so. And I agree that they wouldn't split up just for other pairings within the existing characters. Same ship, same people, different sleeping arrangements? Nah. It just doesn't grab me.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 6:28 PM

Oh, no worries. :) DT is just giving me a little jab from a conversation we had way back. He feels the same way most do about the shipping sometimes going too far, only moreso. Funny enough, the two of us AGREED on the actual ships likely to be seen in the show, it's just he found the one I like kinda annoying. But he made some good points too: such as about Mal being kinda pathetic, particularly in regards to this.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:07 PM

Could be fun though, just think, we could be having all sorts of shipping fights with new characters in the near future!

*Everyone else cringes in dread*

Interesting, about Blue Sun. I've heard people speculate that Gabriel Tam works for them in middle-to-upper management, enough to be fairly well off.

Inara and Zoe could be possibilities too, they have some readily apparent medical hooks that could force them into working against the crew. Jayne might betray them as well. Can't imagine any of the other characters pulling that though.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:17 AM

Haven't been around for a while, so I just figured out that the switch to 2.0 is on. I'm giving it a go. Looks nice!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Interesting, about Blue Sun. I've heard people speculate that Gabriel Tam works for them in middle-to-upper management, enough to be fairly well off.

Inara and Zoe could be possibilities too, they have some readily apparent medical hooks that could force them into working against the crew. Jayne might betray them as well. Can't imagine any of the other characters pulling that though.

I don't at all mean they'd work against the crew! It's more likely they'd work for it. Blue Sun has some secrets looked away in all those food cans, and River knows at least something about it. Could be that a year or two after Miranda they'd end up chasing Blue Sun down in some way. (I don't mean they'd turn all Rebel warriors. Most likely they'd be unwillingly pushed into it, like what happened in the movie.) But it could be that Inara would use her connections and even her sickness to worm her way into Blue Sun. Because who would put security on a sick, helpless, harmless little Companion?

Could also be that Simon, if he's truly off the hook, would go with her to work in his own way. Maybe on the Blue Sun problem, maybe something different. Maybe he'd get more info about how to "fix" River. And maybe Jayne or Kaylee would also go, providing the eyes of the "hick" taking in the big city, as it were. This splinter of the crew would get to know new characters in the Core, perhaps good guys, perhaps bad guys, more likely somewhere in between and changing from good to bad or bad to good as time goes on.

And maybe relationships within our splinter would change as this goes on. They'd develop new dynamics if they spent so much time together, away from the rest. I so do not mean that this would be romantic. Sure, it could end up there, but that's not the point of it all.

OK. Posting in 2.0 has been tried. I like! But I guess I need a new signature. Hmm.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:23 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:
I think it's silly to guess details

You realise you just went and did that, right?

But I agree. Few could stand seven seasons of Mal and Inara....
...five seasons is my limit.
OK six max!
But that's it!

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
I think it's silly to guess details

You realise you just went and did that, right?

Not so much. I was careful to speak in generalities with lots of maybes and coulds. It need not be the characters I said doing exactly what I said, and the only reason I got into that much pseudo-detail was because the general idea of my guess was being understood. I do not think anyone would work against the rest of the crew.

My only points: by season 7 we'd see more of the Core, explore the Alliance and Blue Sun, and have new characters within that frame.

The details could be an infinity of possibilities. I guess, including some of the crew changing sides. But that's not my favorite.

Now why isn't my avatar getting fixed? I'll try again... A-ha! Got it.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:49 AM

Oh, I don't think Inara would either, that anyone would. It would have to be very extenuating circumstances, such as in the movie, when it's implied abuse of the Alliance soldiers towards her students forces her to call Mal into a trap. But she does warn him, and I think she really didn't expect him to come. So on the other hand, she was also perfectly willing to sacrifice herself, again (see Atherton).

She would not willingly or out-and-out betray them, and might try to spin something to her advantage. But poor Inara, sometimes, for all her companion training, she can be just a little naive about the duplicity that people are capable of. I do think she could be tricked.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 4:52 AM