Losing that "western" feel? by InevitableBetrayal

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Losing that "western" feel?

POSTED BY: INEVITABLEBETRAYAL
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:39
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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:01 PM

There's been talk of Joss toning down the "western" aspect of Firefly for "Serenity". So...

1) If anyone has any info, could you please illuminate to me the nature of the "toning down"?

2) How do y'all Browncoats feel about it?

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:23 PM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

Quote:
Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:
There's been talk of Joss toning down the "western" aspect of Firefly for "Serenity". So...

1) If anyone has any info, could you please illuminate to me the nature of the "toning down"?

2) How do y'all Browncoats feel about it?

*points at you* BLASPHEMER!!! LOL

1) sorry, got nuthin'
2) see my opening statement. :)

To expound: I like the "Western", or as I prefer "Frontier", aspect of the show. I guess so long as he keeps it, even if it toned down, I can't complain, but I'd rather it still be there as much as possible. It is HALF of why I love the show, and the other half being the science fiction part.

To me, taking the "west" out of Firefly would be like say...taking Vampires out of Angel and Buffy...or Klingons and Vulcans out of Star Trek...or Stormtroopers out of Star Wars (oh wait they did that, no wonder those 2 new movies sucked)...or putting Battlestar Galactica on a planet (crap...they did that too, and *piff*, the show died). See my point? Don't fix what ain't broke, Joss. PLEASE DON'T fix what ain't broke...

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BROWNCOATS! Rise again and promote Firefly/Serenity!
visit: http://the11thhour.home.att.net

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:27 PM

PIRATEJENNY

I don't like it..the western quality gives Firefly it uniqueness..someone else in some other tread commented on this

Firefly isn't your run of the mill average Sci Fi thats on T.V or thats at the movie..

it has storytelling..its intelligent..thats what makes it special..thats why when you watch the series you feel like you happened onto a gift..a special gift..its almost like a treasure

I don't want that speicalness that uniquneness taken away..I don't want Firefly / Sernity to became just another sci fi fanstasy flick

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:36 PM

AERRIN

I think it depends on how it's done. I supsect (or maybe I just hope) that it's less 'taking away Western' and more.. well. Making it more 'Ariel' or 'Objects in Space' than 'Train Job.'

That is, picking a setting that's maybe a bit more core world and less outer rim.

It that's so, I'm totally down with it. I think Firefly stories can be told there as well as anywhere.

I desperately hope it's not an actual tweaking of the universe as we know it, because the 'frontier' aspect of it is one of the things I truly love.

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:38 PM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

To be honest, the way I look at this situation is the same way I looked at people trying to nervously presume what was in store for them with Peter Jackson's The Lord Of The Rings.

I would read so many posts worrying about how PJ was going to screw things up, oh noes, head for the hills. . .and after The Fellowship Of The Ring, this really baffled me. Maybe beforehand I could understand their anxiousness, but afterwards he proved he was doing it right, and that he could handle himself. . .but people still worried incessantly over The Two Towers and The Return Of The King.

Now, we all love Firefly. We all love Joss Whedon. And we should all know that he is talented and that he knows what he's doing. So why are we spending our rutting time being worried? Joss isn't going to let us down.

This is like the complaints over Wash's jumpsuit and Serenity's sets having a little bit more money behind them. Why are we worrying? I'm absolutely, one-hundred percent positive that Joss is going to rock our casbah with this movie, and that there's no need to fret.

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:40 PM

DAEDALUS

I for one am a fan of toning the Western down.. with one caveat -

) Not very ruttin much!

I totally agree that the 'frontier' aspect is a huge strength, and I love the dialogue and sets; but a small toning down might not be so bad. I thought the train from TTJ was very plausible, mining and farming are going to be huge occupations, as core worlds likely wouldnt house them etc. but occassionally things went a little overboard. I found HoG to have a plot and style too much like a typical cheesy western, I thought a few lines of dialogue throughout the series sounded a bit hokey, and I thought that the clothes were too much like their real western counterparts.

Yes, I am fully aware that firefly is a western, that happens to be set in space. Not everything has to be justified by realism, as that isn't the point. But bottom line, I thought the places that seemlessly blended western feel with sci-fi setting and technology were the best Firefly had to offer.

Much as Joss was never shooting for realism, so much of the 'verse made perfect sense to me that the places that didn't felt wrong.

To be honest, what firefly reminded me of the most is the computer game 'Starcraft'. Firefly is much more western, (And starcaft had aliens) but they both share the same gritty-frontier-old-school style that I really enjoy. Starcraft would be too far, but a little toning down would be a nice polish.

My two cents.

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 2:40 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Well, I talked about this on another thread, but my requirements are either livestock (horses, cows, or, as someone else pointed out, beagles), dusty plateaus, or saloons (a player piano would be nice).

Failing those things, I hope we at least get something like the Evesdown Docks at least once in the show.

- FW

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 4:05 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Bushwacked
Out of Gas
Ariel
War Stories
Trash
The Message
Objects in Space

Seems seven out of fourteen eps didn't really have a Western flavor to them anyway (and in a couple of others it was very slight), so what's the problem?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 4:24 AM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by MohrStoutbeard:

This is like the complaints over Wash's jumpsuit and Serenity's sets having a little bit more money behind them. Why are we worrying?

Because the idiot powers that pay always want to change it so they can see their damn money. Look at TNG's jump to the big screen, they totally changed the way they lidt the enterprise inside so it looked like something else entirely.

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 4:41 AM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Bushwacked
Out of Gas
Ariel
War Stories
Trash
The Message
Objects in Space

Seems seven out of fourteen eps didn't really have a Western flavor to them anyway (and in a couple of others it was very slight), so what's the problem?

Right. HALF. That's *my* point. :) But ALL 14 episodes had some "western flavor" simply by the language...things like "reckon" "might bit tetchy" "folk" "ain't" and speech mannerisms like dropping the g off words as in "ruttin'" . All I am asking is that the formula stays. Add characters, subtract characters, new worlds old worlds, Reaver attacks or simply fear of them, Alliance is oppresive because it wants to be or needs to be. It's all about the formula.

Sure you can add liver oil to chocolate chip cookies, but that is not necessarily a good thing, and if you take out the chocolate chips...well they are not chocolate chip cookies.

Firefly is my chocolate chip cookie. Make it bigger, woo! Add more chips, woo!

:) Here's hoping all this talk of "less west" is just rumermongering! (:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BROWNCOATS! Rise again and promote Firefly/Serenity!
visit: http://the11thhour.home.att.net

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 5:14 AM

SAINT JAYNE

It certainly seems like the movie is expanding into other cultures, but I don't think they can do much to the crew. I say this based on hope, the set pictures, and items from the press kit (with all the Arabic and Japanese text). I like the idea that, although the Alliance is a merger of the US American and Chinese governments, it doesn't mean other cultures won't survive, and even thrive, in the future.

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:36 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Before I get all technical and over-detailed, let me just say that I agree for the most part. All of those episodes had little Western feel. But they had SOME. I guess I didn't make that clear. I only need ONE cow. Or ONE horse. Or ONE plateau (or maybe a dust devil :). To make me know that it's still 'my' Firefly...

Now, on to my rebuttals (in good fun!):

Bushwacked - Right on. Space episode. Need those. But 1-hour episodes don't last 2+ hours, like the movie. And the name says it all.

Out of Gas - Not quite so right. Last I checked, while the Mal timeline was shipboard, we had a nice little flashback to Persephone, which I would classify as dusty enough (besides, it's got swords!):)
Ariel - OF COURSE. Again with the one-hour episode.

War Stories - NOT. Last I checked, Mal and Wash were captured on a dusty plateau-sort of an outdoor area. And that torture room? I LOVE the little bullet holes and fake sunshine coming in. Very western, that room.

Trash - Come on! What exactly was Mal sitting naked in? Tokyo? See dusty plataeus requirement number 1.

The Message - I LOVE the Space Bazaar. Best darned thing I ever saw. And guess what? Western-asian-multicultural. Guy comes by holding things in baskets on a staff on his back. Person riding an ancient bicycle. ON A SPACE STATION. I guess I should have included old bicycles as another option :)

Objects in Space - Right. Another Space Episode.

Look, what I'm saying is, you can have space episode portions to the movie - I'm sure they can have more than usual, given the budget - but I want some planetside fun with plataeu, Western environment feel. Which I'm guessing, from what we heard spoilerwise from the very first Browncoat on the set, just might be something we'll see.

Nuff said. Now give me some cows :)

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 8:49 AM

MOHRSTOUTBEARD

Quote:
Because the idiot powers that pay always want to change it so they can see their damn money.

Let's not forget that without those "idiot powers that pay" we wouldn't be getting a movie at all, so why not save the tetchiness and give Universal the benefit of the doubt for now? I mean, how do we even know that these aren't Joss' own wishes?

I just don't like how some of us went from being hopeful and grateful to the powers that be that they were allowing Joss to continue his vision and bring our Big Damn Heroes back, to a bunch of whiners thinking that we know how to make Joss' movie better than Joss does.

Just have faith, people. If need be, rip out some pages and rewrite your book, integrating non-progressional evolution theory with Joss' creation of Serenity, and file all preconcieved complaints under "early quantum state phenomenon."

Only way to fit 5000 different ways of bitching and moaning on the same boat.

"You've just gotta go ahead and change the captain of your brainship, because he's drunk at the wheel."

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Monday, August 16, 2004 3:43 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Spoiler to follow, folks!
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You'll be happy to know that in the Serenity teaser I just saw, there's a nice dusty scrub brush-dotted landscape, with a high-speed chase across it. Might even have been plateaus!

I'm satisfied. Western enough for me, though I still would like a cow or two.

- FW

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Monday, August 16, 2004 5:42 AM

FEMALEJAYNE

The westernniousty is my favorite part. If I wanted the same old thing I'd still be watching Starteck.

*Female Jayne drops to her knees and pleads with Joss the mastermind of all the is good on TV and asks that he not change Serenity into just another Hollywood movie*

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

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Monday, August 16, 2004 6:03 AM

WITLESSCHUM

I'd like to see them tune it down just a bit.

My biggest thing I'd like to see gone, which might be rectified by budget, is get rid of the guns that recognizably Old West guns. Like Zoe's sawed -off Winchester, or the full-sized one they takes into Niska's space station.

Mal's gun is totally the way to go, clearly the same form and function, but it looks a bit different. Jayne packs a similar piece. I'm willing to buy that lever-action rifles and some revolvers would be used on the fronteir, because they're both quality designs that a much less vulnerable to jamming when they get some grit in them.

Dan

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Monday, August 16, 2004 6:04 AM

RHYMEPHILE

The odd aspect of this is that since the movie is pretty much wrapped, if they completely cut out all references to the frontier, it would be too late to complain. But the dusty frontier and FF are like peanut butter and jelly. You can't have one without the other.

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"Revenge!"

Vince in Rex the Runt

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Monday, August 16, 2004 2:14 PM

INEVITABLEBETRAYAL

Quote:
Originally posted by witlesschum:
My biggest thing I'd like to see gone, which might be rectified by budget, is get rid of the guns that recognizably Old West guns. Like Zoe's sawed -off Winchester, or the full-sized one they takes into Niska's space station.

Mal's gun is totally the way to go, clearly the same form and function, but it looks a bit different. Jayne packs a similar piece. I'm willing to buy that lever-action rifles and some revolvers would be used on the fronteir, because they're both quality designs that a much less vulnerable to jamming when they get some grit in them.

Dan

So basically what you're saying is, "Get rid of the old west guns--but not Mal's, coz I like that one, and not Jayne's, cause I like that one, too. In fact, don't get rid of revolvers, just lever actions."

What a bunch of hooey.

The old western-y guns are part of FF. Don't mess with the formula.

BTW...getting rid of Zoe's gun is the worst idea I've ever heard on this board. What would you rather she carry? One of those phaser rifles from the first Star Trek? Without the gun Zoe is just...well, not Zoe.

_______________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Monday, August 16, 2004 4:37 PM

FORRESTWOLF

Amen, brother! Zoe's carbine/whatever it is has to be my favorite gun.

Revolvers, wooden stocks - that's where it's at.

- FW

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 9:28 AM

LTNOWIS

Quote:
BTW...getting rid of Zoe's gun is the worst idea I've ever heard on this board. What would you rather she carry?

Or maybe a slightly different shotgun that's changed a little bit in 500 years, like Mal's gun.

I think the movie will be just fine. It won't be like watching Ariel, where there aren't any Western settings. Neither will it be like Heart of Gold. There'll still be bustling multicultural markets and a few scrubby plains, but it'll just be toned down some.

Of course, I've got nothing to base this on. I'm really just making stuff up here. But, as people have said, we should trust Joss to make the right choices. If 'Versal's pressuring him, we'll hear all about it in the DVD commentary.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:29 AM

KIQUOA

I'm not crazy with the idea of limiting the ol' western feel of the 'verse.

Should be careful about which sci-fi genres are allowed to have their influence though. Can't have the crew of Serenety fighting Mothra... Not even in a dream sequence... Well, maybe in one of River's dream sequences.

Don't mind which guns they use, as long as they have unlimited ammo :)

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:35 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM

I actually think that Firefly is at least as much western as it is sci-fi. Yeah, they live on a space ship, but the technologies are rarely the focus of the show and almost never have any bearing on the plot or characters. Me myself, I think the mix is perfect. If a change is warranted, I'd hope to see them gravitate more towards western.

For the record, I am a bred-in-the-bone sci-fi fan. My dad would buy used paperback scifi books by the grocery bag full, and I did my senior English thesis on Asimov.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 10:39 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM

Actually, I think it's kind of important for our underdog heros to carry old-fashioned weapons. It helps to mark the difference between the Haves (alliance) and Have-nots. And it makes it easier for us to relate to the characters, since their clothes and props are more familiar to us than collar-less grey uniforms and lasers.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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