Better pilot River, or Wash? by OPPYH

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Better pilot River, or Wash?

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POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 02:23
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/qBddNJ
VIEWED: 5019
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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:22 PM

See, River could be intuitive and probably learn to fly the ship blindfolded bein Psychic and all, but Wash was just one of the greatest star pilots of all time.
There was a way about his skills that makes me say he is the better of the two.

What do yall think on it?

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70's TV FOREVER

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 11:29 PM

LWAVES

This is one of those impossible questions to answer with anything other than personal opinion because we never saw enough of River's flying to make a fair comparison. All we saw was her taking off and heading into the black. No chase, no fancy moves or anything particularly outstanding.
But (just to go along with it) River is physic so she would be predicting and seeing things before they happened. Wash would have to pick up on them as they were happening so that once River had gotten familiar with how Serenity handled and exactly what the ship could do I would say that she would be the better pilot. Wash's skills would have put him pretty close to her though.
I'd even go as far as saying that if she'd been flying when the Reavers fired their EMP at Serenity in the movie that it would have been avoided because River would have seen it coming and taken action. What would have happened after that is anyones guess.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:44 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

I think it depends if River is a full blown physic, as in see future events, or she if she can mearly read people's thoughts.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:55 AM

SISTER

Yeah; I agree. We just didn't get enough time to see how River does; Wash was just the best. Not to say River couldn't be better; we just don't know.
Makes me sad.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:19 AM

GWEK

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
See, River could be intuitive and probably learn to fly the ship blindfolded bein Psychic and all, but Wash was just one of the greatest star pilots of all time.
There was a way about his skills that makes me say he is the better of the two.

What do yall think on it?

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70's TV FOREVER

Alternately, River, being psychic and still more than a little crazy, could crash Serenity into the first large obstacle she finds, laughing all the way.

I have always held that, despite the neat ending of the movie, Mal would be INSANE to put his ship in River's hands.

Let's be honest, just because she threw up a little on Miranda, the physical damage to her brain wasn't fixed. Sjhe may still be a little better, she may be in a better frame of mind, but still, ultimately, a major nutjob.

Do you want a person who can't necessarily tell the difference between a gun and a stick driving the ship? Yeah, me neither!

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:37 AM

BYTEMITE

River could learn the mechanics and know the tricks, plus she'll have crazy innate figuring for the math and physics, but she won't have the muscle memory.

Also, that's pretty much how the RPG ranks them. River supposedly about matches Inara's piloting skills there, and Inara is about "half" as good at piloting as Wash.

If River and Inara ever tried a pilot and co-pilot configuration, they might be able to make up some of the difference.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:42 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I'd even go as far as saying that if she'd been flying when the Reavers fired their EMP at Serenity in the movie that it would have been avoided because River would have seen it coming and taken action.

I doubt it, because she saw it coming even before the Reavers were after them. Guessing when the short story Crystal took place, River knew how Wash was going to die just after Ariel. She still didn't stop it.

So, it seems to me like River's psychic abilities may be the fatalistic self-fulfilling prophecy kind.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 4:02 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I'm going with Wash on this. Instinct over mathematics as it were.

River I'm sure would see things but in trying to avoid that which has yet to happen she could end up in further trouble...

Wash has that flyboy instinct that you can't quantify. It cannot be bottled, taught, or passed on. It's about feelings. For the sake of this argument I'd have to support that idea.

I suppose to give it some earthly perspective, It's a little like Ayrton Senna vs Michael Schumacher. Schumi was all about the telemetary, about being able to analyse the data and translate those figures to extract the best from the car; where as Senna was all about the feeling, about the senses being in tune with the vehicle, in such a way that the infinitesimally small became the Grand whole.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:28 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
I'm going with Wash on this. Instinct over mathematics as it were.

Thank you. That is the answer I was leaning toward.

Remember people, of course this is speculative. Just form an opinion. We are not talking life, and death hard facts here. We are discussing a sci-fi tv show with imaginary characters. Lighten up.

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70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 7:34 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Wash is better to be sure. He's been doing it for a long time, plus he has that love and passion, that flyboy instinct as someone else said, he was made for flying. River on lucid days is probably going to be a good pilot, but we still need to keep a good eye on her, check on her frequently to make sure that lucidity is sticking during her time on the bridge. I think River is a fine pilot when lucid, once she's had practice, but its good for Mal or someone else to fly when she isn't lucid as Gwek pointed out, though I fancy my way of saying it better. The revelation of a secret that you didn't know you had isn't going to fix a brain that has been cut into and rearranged. I do think that the revelation of Miranda and the Reaver fight has helped River understand what she can do and I think her nightmare load would decrease a bit, but she wouldn't be stable based on that one event and she definitely wouldn't be "cured". But like I said when she's lucid enough its good for her to fly Serenity, she enjoys it and so its good. But we always need a backup pilot for when she can't do it today.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 11:56 AM

BLUESUNKILL

on sheer knowledge i would have to say River, but on skill and experience i would have to go with Wash for sure. Should i refer to the pilot episode where he left a reaver ship in the dust or should i reference the BDM when he was a "leaf on the wind" before his untimely demise.

"my ship don't crash...if she crashes you crashed her" Captain Malcolm reynolds

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Friday, September 23, 2011 8:01 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Hey Lwaves,

I agree and disagree with you. I know sounds crazy, allow me to explain.

I agree that River, once she "had gotten familiar with how Serenity handled and exactly what the ship could do I would say that she would be the better pilot. Wash's skills would have put him pretty close to her though."

In Serenity our River was just beginning to realize her skills, and by the end she tells Simon (in the Miranda lab) that she felt "allright." An indication that she was now in control, soon after she proclaims "my turn" in full control, coherent and conscience of what her mission was. Before that her control was random, at best, but began somewhat when the crew went to rescue Mal and Wash from Niska. That brief moment when she took the gun and saved Kaylee's life. She took another giant step towards control of her skills to a larger degree in OiS, albeit with some craziness still intact.

I will go as far as saying that all along she garnered bits of "information" from Wash as he flew Serenity throughout Firefly (knowing what we know of River and the ending of the BDM). I now understand further the meaning behind her "walk-through" of the ship in OiS. It's as Simon said to Kaylee "She loves this ship"; she was "feeling" Serenity.
The captain said it as well at the end of the BDM - "Love will keep her in the air, when she ought to fall down."
"It's Love, in point of fact," the Operative.

Wash, on the other hand, was a pilot of some considerable skill - Honed over years of training and hands-on experience.
Like Kaylee, he was a savant when it came to Serenity. Kaylee knows the "inner workings" of the engine, Wash was gifted in his feel for the ship. A genius pilot; which River absorbed through her pyschic ability and enhanced by the cerebral stripping. So River knew what he knew, but did she absorb the essence of his ability? Think of it this way. The Alliance stripped her cerebral cortex but they didn't strip away her essence. What made her River. They opened up her ability to learn to full throttle and made her the perfect weapon. Or so they thought. River was in there somewhere and she overcame their "training" and reclaimed herself, she was back in full control of her functions.
Wash was in full control of his faculties, and his special skill was as a pilot. His special "feel" afforded him ability to be one with Serenity, River appropriated that skill enhanced by her own. Eventually, given time, she would surpass him. Her ability as a reader would give her the decided advantage, but she still needed practical experience flying the ship in different scenarios.

I don't know if I made my argument, but who the hell cares - I had fun!

SGG

"Who's flying this thing? Oh, yeah that would be me."

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Friday, September 23, 2011 9:44 AM

DUN

nods head

Wash,River maybe a super person/weapon but she's still mad or rather insane.
Wash had the knowledge and the feel,if River tapped into his talent it doesn't necessary mean that she understands it .I could go on but my gut tells me wash.

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Friday, September 23, 2011 10:12 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by dun:
Wash,River maybe a super person/weapon but she's still mad or rather insane.

That is a major point of debate, it is unclear what her mental status is after Miranda.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, September 26, 2011 3:36 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

So Shiny, you believe that when River says she's okay, after tossing and being very upset about Miranda, she means "I'm cured" or at least "hence forth I'm stable"? I think she meant that she was feeling okay, feeling clear and lucid right now, despite her jolt earlier. And then she continues being lucid throughout the scene where she intentionally fights the Reavers. But that doesn't mean that she's "cured" as you seem to think. I do think she has a better understanding of what she's capable of after the movie and that her nightmare load will go down a little, but she's had way more trauma to her, both psychological and braincutting, than a secret she didn't know she had.

We may have to agree to disagree.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 10:56 AM

INVADERPET87

I have a River bias. I want to say River.

"She understands. She doesn't comprehend."

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Wednesday, September 28, 2011 2:23 AM

BUP

No more running. I aim to misbehave.

Wash! No contest. How can anyone compete with a leaf on the wind?

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