Joss's Fascination with Crazy Female Characters by kukoo

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss's Fascination with Crazy Female Characters

POSTED BY: KUKOO
UPDATED: Monday, June 2, 2025 17:26
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Saturday, September 4, 2004 6:21 PM

In all of Joss's shows, there are all of these crazy women, and I was just curious if there were any theories as to why. For example, on Firefly there is River and on Buffy & Angel there is Drucilla (who out-crazies even River). In addition, several of the female characters have been crazy at some point. Fred, when she was first introduced was crazy wall writing hermit lady, Tara was crazy for a time when Glory sucked out her sanity, Willow went homicidal crazy when Tara died, Faith was borderline homicidal crazy through out Season 3 & 4 of Buffy, Cordelia went crazy at the end of Angel season one when that guy touched her and realesed all of the visions, and in season 6 there was the episode which said that Buffy was a schizo in a sanitarium and that all of Whedonverse was just a part of her paranoid delusions.

Don't get me wrong, I loved just about all of the crazed characters, and having such well developed, but insane characters is one of the things I enjoy in Joss's shows, but it just seems unusual that there are so many.

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Saturday, September 4, 2004 7:11 PM

BIKISDAD

Don't forget Dana, the schizophrenic slayer from the Angel season five episode "Damage"...

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Saturday, September 4, 2004 8:10 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Probably because crazy people are fascinating...and also alot of fun.. and well you can really go out on a limb and beyond with a crazy charactor..and it OK because they have an excuse they are crazy...

although I think its to easy to label River as being crazy she's not exactly what I would call crazy... she's so much more

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Saturday, September 4, 2004 9:31 PM

NEEDLESEYE

Just my thoughts...
Joss is an artist, so he is working from a central vision in his head. It comes out on film and writings forming a style that becomes an underlying theme .He works through this idea again and again, subconciously and then not so much. Lot's of artists do this. Creative people have to get "it" out of their system.
I think that's what he's doing and it apparently includes a crazy person. :D

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 1:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

...or it could be that Joss sees a common theme in most women. That they're nuts. ( oooooohhh, whoooooh! Did I really say that?

) Or at the very least, appear to be nuts from one perspectivre as in males can't hardly figure 'em out.

That, or it could be that crazy gals are just really entertaining. Fun to write and fun to watch.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 2:55 AM

PURPLEBELLY

In our cultures, Whedon's audience is more likely to be able to find some sympathy for female characters with reality conflicts than male characters with similar attributes. Whedon has Gender Studies in his academic background, of course.

IGNFF: Was that part of your motivation for taking gender studies for a minor?

WHEDON: It's not that I took it for a minor, it's just like I pursued it in everything I did. It's always what interested me

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 3:10 AM

JENDANDY

Crazy chicks are the best!

I liked Fred when she was hiding up in her room, drawing on the walls and pretending it was a cave like back when she was in Pylea. I've always had a soft spot for Dru and Tara...and don't get me started on River! Best use of a crazy female character ever!! I'm fascinated by how complex her mind works, especially after Objects in Space.

Firefly now, Sig Later...

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 1:09 PM

MAUGWAI

Good point. He does love to use crazy women. I know he studied feminist literature pretty heavily in college. It was one of his major studies. That explains his fascination with female characters in general. He certainly likes them strong. Zoe, Buffy, Faith, Cordelia, Willow. Heck, all his main women have strong personalities, except maybe Fred. She's the meekest of his girls, but look what he turned her into.

Spike and Angel have both been insane, but I can't think of any other male characters going nuts. But maybe it all bounces off Whedon's general obsession with female characters. He explores their personalities in far more detail than the men. He just can't get away from his feminist roots.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 1:36 PM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Heck, all his main women have strong personalities, except maybe Fred. She's the meekest of his girls, but look what he turned her into.

Even Fred was tough when she really had to be. Angel made a point of that once (I forget which episode) by noting that she had survived alone in Pylea for five years. Also, remember the episode "Billy" where she took out both Gunn and Wesley when she had to. Underneath that meek exterior Fred was yet another example of one of Joss's tough chicks.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 3:12 PM

DIETCOKE

Well, here is my take on it: Joss loves to surprise us, and what vehicle can give you more opportunities to surprise the audience than someone who is crazy? You never know what they will do. Remember: "Jayne looks better in red?"

Aren't most really bright people just a little crazy? Aren't people who are REALLY funny just a little off?

I think Joss loves crazy people because they are just a little like him. Really bright and REALLY funny....

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Sunday, September 5, 2004 8:02 PM

SHINYSEVEN

I've been thinking about this, and even though it's difficult to diagnose the mental state of a fictional character, I'm beginning to think that there are just a lot of people throughout the Jossverse who are at least a mite whimsical in the brainpan.

I'm sure Zoe wasn't serious when she called Mal "psychotic" in "Serenity," but a number of commenters *have* referred to his instability.

If you ask me, both Jayne and Warren (BtVS) are sociopaths, there's definitely *something* seriously wrong with Jonathan and Andrew, Wesley is exactly the sort of person who keeps psychoanalysts in BMWs, Giles had a nervous breakdown after graduation, and I don't think you'd put Ethan on the cover of Sanity Fair either.

And then there was the coach who wanted to turn his swimmers into fish, the kid with the Jekyll-and-Hyde potion, the one who wanted to build his dead brother a girlfriend, the coach who put a kid into a coma for dropping a baseball....

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Monday, September 6, 2004 4:48 AM

CYBERSNARK

Sanity is a big issue in almost every form of fantastic literature, and for very good reason.

See, reality is formed by concensus. How do we know vampires don't exist? Because out of millions of people in our society (and completely ignoring other societies, because they can be culturally dismissed as "wrong"), only a handful actually believe that vampires could exist.

What we call "sanity" or reality is just what most people believe. People who're "insane" are just tapped into something else. In other cultures, they'd be shamans, witches, sorcerers, dream-walkers, whatever. But our culture doesn't allow for anyone to disagree with the Concensus.

So people who see things in a different way must be marginalized. They're just crazy --their view of the world is Wrong (which presupposes that the Concensus view of the world is Right).

Joss' fantasy stories happen in a world that is intended to be as real (i.e., as similar to the audience's own shared world) as possible. It's not "long ago, in a far-away land," it's in Sunnydale, or L.A. People drive cars, have jobs, watch TV, read comics, buy groceries, go to vacation in England, and worry about flunking social studies.

Look at it this way: Buffy is sane, right? But she's a teenaged girl who runs around at night with weapons believing that she's killing undead monsters. We see from her perspective that she's right. Vampires exist and are real, and outsiders (like Xander, Willow, Oz, etc) can be brought into her world and made to see these things --but normal people don't, normal people are still going about their lives, staying inside at night because that's what normal people do, and not noticing the other things because their Concensus tells them that only crazy people notice those things.

Dru, Fred, CrazySpike, and River aren't insane. They're just perceiving and experiencing reality in a way that most others aren't. They just look crazy 'cause we (and the other characters) are on the outside looking in.

Who knows, maybe Blue Sun didn't make River crazy (stripping her amygdala would've made her sensitive, but not outright insane). Maybe River made herself that way to escape from them. And maybe she can teach others to do the same thing.

Maybe River wasn't at the Academy to learn, but to teach. Remember what she said:

Quote:
"Am I dreaming?"
"We all are."

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, January 1, 2025 6:28 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

The Cope Is Real: Election Denier Stacey Abrams Refuses to Admit Trump Win Was a 'Seismic Shift'

https://www.westernjournal.com/cope-real-election-denier-stacey-abrams
-refuses-admit-trump-win-seismic-shift/

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Wednesday, January 1, 2025 6:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
The Cope Is Real: Election Denier Stacey Abrams Refuses to Admit Trump Win Was a 'Seismic Shift'

https://www.westernjournal.com/cope-real-election-denier-stacey-abrams
-refuses-admit-trump-win-seismic-shift/

That mid-level two digit IQ still thinks she's the President of the Federation even though she can't win a real election to save her life.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Wednesday, February 12, 2025 4:07 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Stacey Abrams Somehow Concludes That JD Vance Is ‘DEI Graduate’ During Meandering Rant

https://ijr.com/stacey-abrams-somehow-concludes-that-jd-vance-is-dei-g
raduate-during-meandering-rant/

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Thursday, February 20, 2025 7:14 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

A nonprofit called "Power Forward Communities," barely a few months old and scraping by with just $100 in its account, was tied closely to Democrat Stacey Abrams when DOGE revealed it had been handed $2 billion in taxpayer money in 2024.

Stacey Abrams founded two other nonprofits listed as partners on the Power Forward Communities website. She also works as senior counsel for Rewiring America, which spearheads a coalition that counts Power Forward Communities among its members.

Free Beacon reports: “Power Forward Communities' grant was one of just eight Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund grants that the EPA doled out in April 2024 and that, altogether, totaled $20 billion. EPA administrator Lee Zeldin announced on Feb. 13 that his staff and Department of Government Efficiency officials discovered that the Biden administration parked that same $20 billion at an outside financial institution before leaving office, limiting the federal government's oversight of the program.”

https://x.com/stillgray/status/1892386546910638503

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Thursday, February 20, 2025 4:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
She also works as senior counsel for Rewiring America, which spearheads a coalition that counts Power Forward Communities among its members.

All Democrats managed to do was rewire their party and drop the sparky end in a bathtub.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Sunday, February 23, 2025 7:58 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

From Advocacy to Accountability: Lessons from the Downfall of Male Feminists
https://therowanwoodchronicles.blog/2025/01/16/from-advocacy-to-accoun
tability-lessons-from-the-downfall-of-male-feminists/

“Joss is (no longer?) Boss”: three layers of cancelling in the joss whedon fan community
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14680777.2024.2381244

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Thursday, March 6, 2025 4:31 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

and so the 2 party system continues

Abrams: Trump a ‘Petty Tyrant Who Is Surrounded by Complicit Flunkies’

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2025/03/05/abrams-trump-a-petty-tyrant
-who-is-surrounded-by-complicit-flunkies/

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Friday, March 7, 2025 11:55 AM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:

and so the 2 party system continues

Abrams: Trump a ‘Petty Tyrant Who Is Surrounded by Complicit Flunkies’

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2025/03/05/abrams-trump-a-petty-tyrant
-who-is-surrounded-by-complicit-flunkies/]

I enjoyed your link to fandom and the reasons expressed there for canceling Joss, or not. It helped to understand why some, no matter what Trump does, cannot cancel him out. Apparently, the good things they thought about themselves; like believing in equal rights for women or such, weren't true. It wasn't who they really were.

While others, who actually believe in an issue, like equal rights for women or such, can cancel Joss if Joss turned out to be false. They would cancel Joss because it is who they really are, and backing that up by dumping Joss would be a must.

T

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Friday, March 7, 2025 9:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Stacy Abrams should be grabbing her go-bag and fleeing the country.

Good luck, dummy.

Shut the fuck up about Women's Right's, Ted. You've never spent 5 seconds of intimacy with a woman your entire life, and the last 4 years you couldn't even give a definition of what a woman is unless you ran it past Neil DeGrasse Tyson first.

If you give one single shit about women, why don't you ask your 45 senators why they would not protect women in women's sports by banning men from playing them.

Seriously. Fuck you, Ted.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, March 11, 2025 8:27 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

$7 billion of YOUR money in Gibs Me Dat

'Bigger than Watergate': How Stacey Abrams was gifted $7 billion of YOUR money Last spring when America was sadly still under the former regime, Biden and Harris via the EPA funneled $7 billion into a ghost fund called “the United Climate Fund.” “This was all part of a $20 billion jackpot from the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund that was tacked in and tucked in so you could really find it in the so-called 'Inflation Reduction Act’ that had nothing to do with reducing inflation — nothing; it was a scam,” says Glenn Beck.
https://www.theblaze.com/shows/the-glenn-beck-program/bigger-than-wate
rgate-how-stacey-abrams-was-gifted-7-billion-of-your-money

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Sunday, May 11, 2025 3:46 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

How Stacey Abrams Leveraged Her Position

https://www.realclearenergy.org/2025/05/01/how_stacey_abrams_leveraged
_her_position_1107307.html

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Monday, June 2, 2025 4:42 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

New Georgia Law Could Force Fani Willis To Testify Before Lawmakers Probing Her for Misconduct in Her Pursuit of Trump
https://www.nysun.com/article/new-georgia-law-could-force-fani-willis-
to-testify-before-lawmakers-probing-her-for-misconduct-in-her-pursuit-of-trump

‘Distract and destroy rather than deliver’: Stacey Abrams rips retribution agenda in GOP
https://www.msnbc.com/ali-velshi/watch/-distract-and-destroy-rather-th
an-deliver-stacey-abrams-rips-retribution-agenda-in-gop-239820357950

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Monday, June 2, 2025 10:20 AM

THG

What's the point of bringing up old, good threads, threads created in the spirit of Firefly the show, to post totally off topic? All it does is wreak the spirit, unity and integrity of the thread, of the site.

There's nothing worse than seeing a thread not created by JAYNEZTOWN, ending with 30 or more unanswered posts of JAYNEZTOWN, destroying a thread. And this happens thread after thread. JT, start a thread or two. There are many brilliant threads where the creativity should be protected, not tarnished in such a way.

T

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Monday, June 2, 2025 2:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
What's the point of bringing up old, good threads, threads created in the spirit of Firefly the show, to post totally off topic? All it does is wreak the spirit, unity and integrity of the thread, of the site.

There's nothing worse than seeing a thread not created by JAYNEZTOWN, ending with 30 or more unanswered posts of JAYNEZTOWN, destroying a thread. And this happens thread after thread. JT, start a thread or two. There are many brilliant threads where the creativity should be protected, not tarnished in such a way.

T

Not looking to start an argument with you Jaynez, since I have grown to like you over the years, but I gotta give this one to Ted. And I agree with him 100%. (Even if the spelling is bad... Classic Ted. But that is how I know it's a genuine post from him and we're not dealing with a pod-person).

I think that was a very reasonable and well thought out request Ted made here, and it's got plenty of merit behind it as well. And, to top it off, he wasn't even an asshole in the post either.

We do have plenty of poison here already, and plenty of it outside of the RWED that are all active threads too. These last few posts you've made in this thread could have just sat in Nilbog's "Femtacular" thread, or at least a dozen other threads in our political cesspool and don't need to be in this thread.

And looking back on the thread, it looks as though I had plenty of additional poison coming from my direction once this thread was co-opted by poison when it got necroposted. Most of the stuff I've posted in this thread was not necessary and never would have been posted had this thread not been necroposted and turned so political.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Monday, June 2, 2025 4:22 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

I think Firefly is one of those events where they work of Art out lives the Artist, but the studios could also destroy the classic

Buffy but without Joss, could it happen
a guy who can't give cancer survivors any slack? directed by Fran Rubel Kuzui and wasn't the original written by Joss Whedon...but owned by 20th Century Fox then taken over by Mavrel / Disney the Mouse owns everything now

and other news

How Michelle Trachtenberg Will Be Honored in ‘Buffy’ Reboot, According to Former Stars (Exclusive)
https://www.aol.com/lifestyle/michelle-trachtenberg-honored-buffy-rebo
ot-224108047.html

‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ Reboot: Everything We Know So Far
https://fandomwire.com/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-reboot-everything-we-k
now-so-far/

child actress Ryan Kiera Armstrong

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-reboot-pilot-cas
t/

as for Joss and the Neo Political Feminism he created...maybe something came back to bite him?

You know I don't know what to make of all the 'MeToo' stuff, there is some real complaints, political issues, harassment event happening but a lot of MeToo also seems exaggeration but with Joss he backed this Feminist Culture and behind the scenes A LOT of people complained about him, saying he was two-faced, its not just one individual but A LOT of them?

February 2021, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel actress Charisma Carpenter alleged that Whedon had "abused his power on numerous occasions", calling him a "vampire" and "casually cruel". In a tweeted statement, Carpenter said that Whedon had called her "fat" and asked her "if she was going to keep it" upon learning of her pregnancy, mocked her religious faith, and repeatedly threatened to fire her, which he ultimately did. Carpenter also revealed that she had participated in WarnerMedia's Justice League investigation.
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/charisma-carpenter-joss-whedon-abuse-
of-power-allegations-1234904995/

everyone has their own complains and perspective and opinion but you get a lot of stories A LOT from so many different people

Amber Benson, Gal Gadot, Ray Fisher and Michelle Trachtenberg, David Boreanaz, James Marsters, Anthony Stewart Head, Eliza Dushku, J. August Richards, and Amy Acker
Jason Momoa posted in support of Fisher, writing about "the shitty way [they] were treated" on Justice League reshoots and saying that "serious stuff went down"
https://web.archive.org/web/20210216211120/https://thegrapevine.theroo
t.com/ray-fisher-and-jason-momoa-claim-warner-bros-is-using-1845077120

recently Whedon claimed Gadot "misunderstood" him due to English not being her first language and called Fisher a "bad actor in both senses".
only ;ast year Zack Penn was still doing interviews about this stuff and also called Whedon, "a d*ck" as well as "a bad person." Joss has been know to go public and political comparing Ivanka Trump to a dog and for wishing that Paul Ryan would be raped to death by a rhinoceros, criticizing the physical appearance of teenage cancer survivors who were visiting then–Speaker of the House Paul Ryan and later apologized on Twitter.
https://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/a827116/avengers-joss-whedon-apolog
ises-on-twitter-for-tasteless-gag-teenage-cancer-survivors/

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Monday, June 2, 2025 4:34 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I'm not going to argue that your likening to things happening today isn't without merit either. But you need to stay on topic if you are going to pull politics into long dead threads. Especially when there are literally dozens of better places to put them.

Fani Willis doesn't belong in this thread at all.

I could see an argument for Stacey Abrams, especially her DEI stint in a woke Star Trek piece of crap, but even then, this was a thread about Joss' possible mental problems and pretty obvious fetishes.

Really, nothing you've added in the last year or 3 to this thread is relevant to the thread topic, and I maintain that Ted is in the right to call that out.

--------------------------------------------------

"I don't find this stuff amusing anymore." ~Paul Simon

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Monday, June 2, 2025 5:26 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

maybe he will back Fani in the mid Terms, Stacey Abrams was on twitter shooting her campaign videos (for free) at the Joss house

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