Joss Whedon's; The Watcher???? by TheSomnambulist

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Joss Whedon's; The Watcher????

POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Monday, October 4, 2004 06:36
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Monday, September 27, 2004 11:45 PM

Hey slightly veering off Firefly I know but it is Joss related..

Does anyone have any news on Joss' proposed spin-off The Watcher, that he was due to be undertaking here in the UK with Anthony Stewart Head.

There was brief mention on Buffy season six commentary, but since then I've heard nothing.

Anybody know of any details?

Many thanks.

TheSomnambulist.

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:56 AM

EMBERS

Tony Head has said at conventions that he doesn't forsee a series at this point (and I thought they were thinking of calling it 'Ripper' anyway), but there is some hope of a made for TV movie....
Evidently Joss approached several Buffyverse actors about doing made for TV movies (James Marsters & Tony Head have both publicly said that they told Joss 'yes'), so I'm hoping something happens with those sometime this year....
Joss has said that altho SMG & DB aren't interested he still has about 10 other characters (which I took to include Giles/Ripper).
So basically there is talk - but I haven't heard about anything definite, nothing that qualifies as 'news'.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 1:15 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Cheers Embers

That's more than I knew so thanks. I didn't know they were going to call it Ripper.

Well Ok it's something to look forward to. A made for TV movie would work very nicely I hope that comes off.

Cheers again Embers

The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 3:48 AM

EMBERS

Well I'm sorry I don't know more Somnambulist
errr or
I guess that should be THE Somnambulist

It is disappointing that it doesn't look like a full series will happen..
because I'm sure there are a lot of stories to tell.
But actually if we get Giles into a couple of TV movies with at least one focused on him as Ripper and as a Watcher, then that really would be nice!
But I'm disappointed that we haven't heard any rumors of scripts being shopped around (altho Joss said that Fox productions were still very keen to make the TV movies...he said that at the Wizard World comic con in Chicago).

So I have my fingers crossed!

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:13 AM

GHOULMAN

... OK, can someone start a thread that kills this mining of Joss' universe? Especially by Joss himself.

Note: I think Giles is great, the actor is completely watchable and, well, I've been compared to Giles so apparently he's not too far from my personality (or at least I'm boring and read books too much).

Ripper (or The Watcher) isn't a viable story imho. It will collapse under it's own history. A story about Giles now would bog down into a very boring rehashing of old ideas. Though, I've always been impressed with Joss' magic ability to take the stale and make it fun and dramatic.

About the only new stories coming out from the old Buffyverse are the Slayers.

I see only one thing left to do with the Buffyverse....

Buffy and the Slayers!

Could be a band, could be a summer movie. Hey, both!

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:48 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Hey Ghoulman

Interesting. Funnily enough I see there being far more mature stories to tell moving away from the whole "Slayer" thing, and in particular the superpower kickin' ass type element.

Also the idea that maybe it would be set here in the UK is far more interesting. :)

Now of course I understand fully the idea of moving on from the established Buffy lore, but if anyone can bring fresh ideas to TV it is Joss.

But this thread was more to find out what the rumblings were. I'd heard things for a while and then suddenly they just stopped. Just wondered why really. And at what stage the concept was at.

Cheers
The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:50 AM

COSMICFUGITIVE

I read that Joss, Anthony Head, and the BBC still want to make it. (Although that might be old news.) The tv movie is a good idea though.

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman
Ripper (or The Watcher) isn't a viable story imho. It will collapse under it's own history. A story about Giles now would bog down into a very boring rehashing of old ideas. Though, I've always been impressed with Joss' magic ability to take the stale and make it fun and dramatic.

How much do we really know about Giles? There's alot of stuff from his past that needs to be explored. It could be interesting. Plus, it would be great to see a British perspective of the Buffyverse.
I like the idea of Giles being a ghost hunter.
Alot of people will hate me for drawing comparions here, but it could be like a darker version of Jonathan Creek - only ALOT better. That's how I'd envision it.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:50 AM

GHOULMAN

To The Somnambulist - Well, if people as sagacious as you are involved, I'd be more in favour of it.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:51 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Ripper (or The Watcher) isn't a viable story imho. It will collapse under it's own history. A story about Giles now would bog down into a very boring rehashing of old ideas.

Not necessarily.

The old Watcher's Council is gone. We know from Angel that Andrew signed on to help rebuild it. I'd be amazed if Xander, Willow, and likely Dawn don't also join up at some point.

But it wouldn't be just Giles rebuilding the CoW; he's had his share of fights with the old stuffed shirts, and knows their shortcomings intimately. I'd imagine that the COW-as-revived-by-Giles would be a much more dynamic group --especially now that there's an entire army of Slayers wandering around.

Plus, with Wesley gone, Illyria just might go a-wandering. . .

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:53 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Well I'm sorry I don't know more Somnambulist
errr or
I guess that should be THE Somnambulist

It is disappointing that it doesn't look like a full series will happen..
because I'm sure there are a lot of stories to tell.
But actually if we get Giles into a couple of TV movies with at least one focused on him as Ripper and as a Watcher, then that really would be nice!
But I'm disappointed that we haven't heard any rumors of scripts being shopped around (altho Joss said that Fox productions were still very keen to make the TV movies...he said that at the Wizard World comic con in Chicago).

So I have my fingers crossed!

Hey Embers

Somnambulist is fine :)

So fox are interested in it. Was this always the case. I thought Joss had been negotiating with the BBC, was it a co-production thing?

Oh well. Cheers for the updates though, I do appreciate them.

Laters
The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:54 AM

GHOULMAN

CYBERSNARK - maybe, but I see that as falling back into well trodden territory.

See, we have years of those characters and things. Don't drive it into the ground.

1st rule of theatre - always leave 'em wanting more.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:58 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by CosmicFugitive:
... like a darker version of Jonathan Creek - only ALOT better. That's how I'd envision it.

Hm? Jonathan Creek? Link please.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:07 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
To The Somnambulist - Well, if people as sagacious as you are involved, I'd be more in favour of it.

Why thank you...

I don't know how sagacious I am especially as I had to go and look the word sagacious up in the dictionary! Doh!

But you know there's a hell of a lot of history here in England which is condusive for a Watcher style show. There's plenty of fuel for narratives on that front...

More to the point though, just once it would be nice, for us here in the uk anyway, to have a show set in Britain which isn't about a middle aged, divorced, misanthropic poilce detective who's given two hours and six ad breaks to fathom out who the killer is!

C'mon Joss get your butt over to England!

The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:14 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Ghoulman

Here's a JC link:

http://www.jonathancreek.net

Not a fan of the show myself, but I see where comparisons can be drawn.

It was though after the events firmly routed in reality. Also there was little character development as the show ran.

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:27 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

More to the point though, just once it would be nice, for us here in the uk anyway, to have a show set in Britain which isn't about a middle aged, divorced, misanthropic poilce detective who's given two hours and six ad breaks to fathom out who the killer is!

C'mon Joss get your butt over to England!

ROTFL!!! That's a Helen Mirren crack isn't it?

And I see your point about England and it's history - if any show gives me that richness I'll be there with bells on.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:38 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Ghoulman

She's one but there are and have been a slew of them.
Prime Suspect as you've already mentioned but there is also:

Jack Frost (I know)
Morse ( Mercifully that's finished now)
Midsommer Murders (With the old bloke who starred in Bergerac - A cop show set on the Island of Jersey!!!)
Taggart(I think this is still going even though the central character died about ten years ago!!)
Silent Witness ( Pathologist or summit can't remember never watch it - but dull as..)
Rosemary and Thyme ( two well past it retired women busy bodying beyond belief and interfering in others' lives kinda like miss Marple! But two of them!!!)

There are more actually but I've now realised I don't even remember the names - but they all have this morbid fascination of presenting grisly and gruesome seemingly unexplainable deaths - and every show is basically about one upmanship with rival shows on how to present England as grim grey and humourless.

Non of these I would mind if they didn't all feel like they're the same concept.

Ok rant over.

:)

Cheers Ghoulman nice chatting with you.

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:46 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
... OK, can someone start a thread that kills this mining of Joss' universe? Especially by Joss himself.

Well Ghoulman, I think you are underestimating Joss,
if he felt he had enough stories for a series in England about Giles, then I think we can bet that he has some really interesting things to tell us!
Similarly Joss said he had another whole season's worth (at least, maybe two years worth) of stories to tell on Ats before it was cancelled...
so just because you (or I) can't think of what still needs to be told is no reason to assume that Joss is similarly lacking in imagination.

Joss is really a young man (just 40) and he has a lot of stories he hasn't had the chance to tell, for Firefly and for the Buffyverse...and personally I hope he has a chance to tell them all!

And Somnambulist, Joss made the distinction that Fox productions (not Fox television) was interested in making the TV movies, I'm not sure who will be interested in buying them and airing them....

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 6:02 AM

GHOULMAN

Young man of 40. I LOVE you! I feel young and plucky.

^^^ I think you're exactly right EMBERS. One reason I'm such a huge fan of Joss Whedon is that he does exactly what one should NOT do (at least I wouldn't use such tired old genre trappings like Joss does) and yet makes it dramatic and interesting.

I'm just scared he will finally bore me I think. I want my hero to go off, drop these genre trappings, and take the red pill!

I could go on.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
... SNIP!

Non of these I would mind if they didn't all feel like they're the same concept.

Ok rant over.

:)

Cheers Ghoulman nice chatting with you.

lol! Nice rant! You're the best. I think what you are talking about are what are refered to here as "proceedure shows", though there is that ole English tradition of the mystery. Personally, I like the Brother Cadefael stories.

Yea, we here have all those American shows that just go around wondering who killed who. Worse, they have LAW& ORDER which has that and then a court case so fantisized you might think you were watching a 1950s propoganda piece.

What ever happened to realism? Remember "and Justice For All", that sort of thing? Well, it's not the sort of thing that reassures people who are deeply afraid of the world they have created. They need to know the "system" works... and that's what TV is for.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 6:53 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
And Somnambulist, Joss made the distinction that Fox productions (not Fox television) was interested in making the TV movies, I'm not sure who will be interested in buying them and airing them....

Oh right... So fox Productions see the worth in the project. OK. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Man I hope they go for it, because like you I'm very confident Joss has an idea of where he would like to take that character, and as we know Joss is often a couple of years ahead of himself, as he proved with Dawn being mentioned at the end of Season three of Buffy, and not until season 5 have her make an appearance.

So it's not out of the realms of posibility that he hasn't already worked out a season ark for Giles'

Well Embers thanks again. Here's hoping eh? :)

Cheers
The Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 6:59 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Yea, we here have all those American shows that just go around wondering who killed who. Worse, they have LAW& ORDER which has that and then a court case so fantisized you might think you were watching a 1950s propoganda piece.

What ever happened to realism? Remember "and Justice For All", that sort of thing? Well, it's not the sort of thing that reassures people who are deeply afraid of the world they have created. They need to know the "system" works... and that's what TV is for.

Oh yeah... Whatever happended to Magnum PI

Now that was a show. He, he!!

But I hear you about the law and order shows! Who'd have thought a TV show about a bunch of unethical lawyers would captivate TV audiences!!! Incredible...

Cheers
TheSomnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:51 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ hahaha... Magnum P.I. was the show everyone could point too as utter crap on a stick. I have a theory that you can put Tom Selleck in anything and people will watch it. Same with Scott Bakula.

BTW, have you noticed all the shows created to promote Homeland Security? That is, promote it as friendly and not the Gestapo is really is.

The new Sci-Fi (Ha!) thing "the 4400" is nothing more than a promotion for Homeland Security.

SSDD!

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:16 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
as he proved with Dawn being mentioned at the end of Season three of Buffy, and not until season 5 have her make an appearance.

Sorry for the offtopiciness.

I never noticed any Dawn reference in Season three. Could you fill me in about this. What episode? When? Is it a direct comment or something you have to read into? Is it mentioned in the comentary that it's really about Dawn? Thanks.

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Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:06 PM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
as he proved with Dawn being mentioned at the end of Season three of Buffy, and not until season 5 have her make an appearance.

Sorry for the offtopiciness.

I never noticed any Dawn reference in Season three. Could you fill me in about this. What episode? When? Is it a direct comment or something you have to read into? Is it mentioned in the comentary that it's really about Dawn? Thanks.

There are really two comments, although only one is mentioned in the commentary as being about Dawn. In Graduation Day, Pt. 1, Faith says something to Buffy about being "dressed up in big sister's clothes" just before they have their big fight. In Graduation Day, Pt. 2, during the dream sequence between Faith and Buffy, Faith says something to Buffy (and I don't remember the exact wording) about "Little Miss Muffet...(and there's more to that that I can't think of)", but Joss says in the commentary that it was a reference to Dawn. In season 5's episode "The Real Me", they carry that through when the crazy guy comes up to Dawn and says "curds and whey...curds and whey".

That's my recollection. For the exact wording you should watch the episodes again and listen to the commentary.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Friday, October 1, 2004 11:20 AM

ANKHAGOGO

Personally, I'm definitely for a series built around Giles.
I wouldn't have believed that Angel in LA could be as interesting as it turned out to be, so who's to say that a Giles show wouldn't be just as cool?

And hey! We could always get lots of Ethan Rayne!

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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Friday, October 1, 2004 1:04 PM

GWENHARKER

I would be extremely ectatic if the Series did go through. I hate how people keep saying to me 'We wish Joss would be alowed to move on as an artist, away from Buffy.' People, lest we forget, without FOX and Buffy, we would not have Joss and we would not have Firefly.

And I would also like to say that DB said that he isn't interested in TV movies, but a big screen. SMG pretty much alluded to the same thing. DB also mentioned that he would want Sarah on board, vice versa with SMG wanting DB. They also want a good, decent script.

As a 'Watcher' long before Browncoat, I would rather see a good, Buffy/Angel movie before the final two Firefly flicks.

It's imperitive to get a B/A movie out ASAP, JM has said that he probably has about five years left of being able to play spike (the man is 41 years old) and DB is approaching 35. My B/A ending is, to me, a little more important. We've been waiting so long.

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Friday, October 1, 2004 2:03 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

James Masters is 41????

www.cirqus.com

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Friday, October 1, 2004 4:07 PM

CORNCOBB

The exact qoute from Graduation Day part two was "Miles to go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 730". "Miles to go" is aquote from a Robert Frost poem about death, Little Miss Muffet is obviously Dawn and 730 was the number of days left until the dramatic events of 'The Gift'.

Activating Smug Mode. Smug Mode activated.

I'm all for more Buffy spin offs, there are so many stories left to tell. I've been writing some Buffy and Angel crossover fanfic and come up with loads of exciting stories. I'm sure if i can do it Genius Joss certainly can

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Friday, October 1, 2004 10:50 PM

IDEFIX

he doesn't really tell. tells something different everytime he's asked.
some say he's 44, some say 41. it's pretty certain he's older than 40 and younger than 50.

he does look younger though, doesn't he? and what's even more interesting he seems to have changed very little since he started playing Spike in S2 of Buffy. DB has changed lots more in the same time. just watch some early S2 Buffy EPs and some late S5 Angel ones and compare. JM is the optimal vampire, he doesn't change (or almost doesn't).

Idefix

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Saturday, October 2, 2004 3:27 AM

VERACOBB

As well as the references to Dawn in Graduation Day, there was a line at the beginning of This Year's Girl, while Faith and Buffy make the bed.

Faith: Oh, you have to go.
Buffy: It's just with . . .
Faith: Little sis coming. I know. So much to do before she gets here.

And then again in Restless, during Buffy's dream she looks at the clock which says 7:30, but Tara tells her 'that clock's completely wrong' (obviously by now it would be 365), and then tells Buffy to 'Be back before Dawn.'

Joss is a genius, but f course we already knew that. I think a Giles telemovie would be fantastic, but then I have learnt now to trust Joss completely, so I think anything he does would be completely shiny.

Can we start getting sexed already?

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Monday, October 4, 2004 6:36 AM

GWENHARKER

Yeah, You're not the only one who knows about the whole 730/miss muffet thing from Grad day.

Asked JM at a convention when he was here in Cleveland and he said 38. But we all know he shaves at least five years off his age (due to the indescrepicies).

DB's faced filled out a little more and he looked excellant in Season 3 and Season 1 of Angel. The reason, IMHO, he looks like he gained weight (see him shirtless in Just Rewards? Trimmed hunk of salty goodness) because they really started putting him in ill-fitting clothes by Season 3. He also had to grow his hair out a bit for The Crow 4 (end of season four, begining of Season Five). So ill-fitting clothes and hair REALLY make you look diffrent.

So yes, I want my Buffy/Angel reunion of lurve before a second Serenity.

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