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Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."

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Jayne isn't as scrupulous as Mal, Jayne shoots first in Our Mrs Reynolds and Serenity, the pilot episode. Waiting for the other guy to shoot at Jayne first is inefficient.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

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One word:

River.

Your characterization analysis is flawed and inaccurate.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

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One word:

River.

Your characterization analysis is flawed and inaccurate.

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You are right. We can add to Mal's decision tree about who not to kill. There are a few humans that he gives full status as being people not to be killed on a whim. Jayne can thank his lucky stars that he made it into that group. River has saved Mal enough times, maybe, to also be in that special group. Probably puppies and little children, too.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Furthermore, he seems to have greatly exaggerated sense of what is NOT a risk, because he seems to allow risks no sane person would.

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Furthermore, he seems to have greatly exaggerated sense of what is NOT a risk, because he seems to allow risks no sane person would.

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Good points. MIKERs' are too.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
"A man of honor in a den of thieves," as Badger put it. :)






Ya nailed it.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
Also, listen to Inara begin to describe Mal to her client in Jayne's' Town. He is a man of honor.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.

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He was questioning Mal's view of himself in Badger & Co.'s presence.

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Yep.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
CHRISISALL:
I just noticed the Star Ship Enterprise in your logo. Yeah ! I Love that series also.

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Originally posted by CHRISISALL:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.

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He was questioning Mal's view of himself in Badger & Co.'s presence.

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The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
I think Nadia's choice to stay goes to SECEONDS point that she maneuvered Mal into the fight instead of flight. I am assuming Inara was not going to run out on her friend. There for Mal stays.

I also think BYTEMITE you are correct that Mals staying insured a much better future for those left on the planet. Rance had to go.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.

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Mal isn't prescient either. Nandi's death isn't the result of him deciding that he wanted a good fight and a high body count. It was a result of Nandi's own decision to not take Mal up on his offer to transport all of them off world. Without help, Rance was going to continue bullying them and probably eventually kill them all because that's just the kinda guy he was, and so Mal couldn't in good conscience just leave them to that.

If you think Mal being involved led to more death than if he wasn't involved, then you have one seriously twisted perception of his character. Nandi won him over because he could relate to her situation. He knows what it's like to have to fight for your home and your family against the aggression of others.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Second, you sure do put a lot of time and effort into analyzing fictional characters. The only ones deserving of your criticisms are the writers.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
Mal is not a hit man.

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All he could do as far as Ranse goes is prepare and wait. Ranse has to start the confrentation.

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When Mal shoots the operative in the movie, the operative had already threatened to blow Serenity out of the sky. That began the confrontation.

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With patenice in the movie, refusing to leave even after Mal gave her the money back means she to started the confrontation. Do you see a petteren here?

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Jayne betrayed Mal and others in the crew. Jayne made the first move and Mal could nolonger trust him. Jayne also knew to much to just kick lose. Mal decided to let Jayne live because he showed remorse and shame at what he did. Jayne displayed this when he asked Mal not to tell the others what he did,but instead to make something up.

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But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.

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It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.

[....]

If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.

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Too busy doing nothing... while everyone else except the pregnancy team is SLEEPING because they want to be in top form for the fight tomorrow. How horrible that Mal is HUMAN just like everyone else around him, what a monster.

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It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.

[....]

If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.

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YEP. Because Jayne just betrayed them and demonstrated that he cared more about money than any of them OR ethics. Mal gave Jayne a second chance because Jayne indicated that he DID care about them after all.

It's official. There's no way you actually believe what you're saying. And if you do, it's not worth arguing with you because it would be impossible to change your mind.

Seriously, the hell with this. I am so tired of putting up with all the constant bickering. Now it's not even contained to the RWED, it's spilled out into Firefly itself. Whatever, see you all in another month when the next comic comes out and I get bored enough again.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the move " your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by MIKER:
When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the move " your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

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That was Mal sayin' he loved her (not that he realized it, 'course). He doesn't like to love. It complicates matters.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
I will use one of your points SECOND to explain my thinking. Mal did not get paid to kill Ranse. All may have believed it would come to that but that was just the outcome. Remember Mal suggesting to Inare in her shuttle he was going to explain it to Ranse. Big difference. I think you may be missing the point of cause and effect in your observations.

Your post of the script is great. It is right there in black and white. Jayne betrayed the crew. Mal confronted him and when Jayne showed true remorse Mal gave him a second chance.(no pun intended).I think your explanations SECOND are perceptions; coming from reading into the minds of the characters, rather than observing any consistency in their behavior. I don't know but( Perhaps you ) SECOND are a conspiracist. What is the obvious never is and events have a much darker and confused meaning lurking beneath. Is that so?

When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the movie" your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

That said, I haven't seen any insults flying around, but instead differing points of view. Their have been some good arugrements made. Still I don't see you SECOND coming to the tabe as far as agreeing on anything. That's OK.

While I like to discuss these types of things, I agree with BYTEMITE that if we can find no common ground maybe we should give it a rest.

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Originally posted by second

One thing about Mal that separates him from the meth chemist on Breaking Bad and the evil politician on House of Cards and the gangster on The Sopranos is that those people deserve death and Mal deserves life. He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.
End Quote.



Miker
I agree Mal is picking himself up off the ground after the war, also that his humanity remains much in tacked. I would describe Mal as a badass not as a bad man. What you want of Mal for your viewing enjoyment is all about you and not who Mal is.

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Originally posted by second:
He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by second:
He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.

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As far as I'm concerned, Mal hit bottom on Haven. Book's death was the last straw. NOT killing the Operative was his salvation (in more ways than one). At the end of Serenity, he IS that much better man IMO.

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Originally posted by MIKER:
we have come at this from all angles now and I feel for me it is time to put it to bed.

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Originally posted by THG:

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T