After all this time, which side are you on now? by chrisisall

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I will forever have a passion for the entire 'verse, but that doesn't mean I love every single element of it. The series was better than the movie, but that doesn't mean I would side with the first group. I suppose I'm in the 1.5 camp.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:48 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

Love them both. No question, love them both.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 6:59 PM

America loves a winner!

First of all, the movie itself is a great expression of love. And for that, I'm thrilled that it was made.

But truth be told, I didn't care for the variations of how River got out of the academy, from the series and the BDM. I know it played better to have Simon be the point man, saving her from the bad men, but it just never really sat well w/ me.

Also, while it did play great in the BDM, Jayne , once again, taking it upon himself to kidnap River and make a pretty penny as he gets her off the ship, absolutely didn't sit well w/ me either.

After Ariel, nearly being shot out the airlock , "War Stories" ( she killed them with freaking math ), and the fight at Maidenhead, even man-ape Jayne knew he would be forfeiting his life by taking such action.

Oh, and the final fight scene, between Mal and The Operative ? 2 really big problems:

- How does one go about getting one's nerve cluster MOVED ? I know it's a movie, but really ? Scar tissue would have made at least a far more plausible explanation, wouldn't it ?

- Sword through the abdomen ? Simply pull out, and carry on fighting. No worries. I know Joss loves the " OH SHIT!" moments, but c'mon... He chose to tone that scene down a bit, so it didn't look as ridiculous, but it still was over the top.

Love it all, but I had some tangible reservations w/ the movie.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 7:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I suppose I'm in the 1.5 camp.

A few days after I saw the movie (and had recovered from the shock), I realized that Serenity might just be my favourite movie of all time. Not since The Empire Strikes Back had I been hammered so hard, yet left that hopeful by the end.
Sadly, since then, Serenity has slipped in my personal ratings from my #1 film

... now it sits alongside Blade Runner as a tie for #1. How time changes your views on things, eh?

So to sum up, Serenity was not the BEST possible venue to tell the rest of the tale, but for what it is, I'm reasonably happy with it.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
- Sword through the abdomen ? Simply pull out, and carry on fighting. No worries. I know Joss loves the " OH SHIT!" moments, but c'mon...

It went in (as clear as I can see it pausing) below his left lower rib just over where his kidney would be. Not sayin' no damage, but adrenaline was already highly in play, and unlike most of you who've never been deeply cut, going on until blood loss keels you over CAN happen. Remember Mal in War Stories? Also, he expected to die. So yes, it's way OTT, but impossible, not at all. And I so appreciated the totally beat-to-s**t look to him at the end.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 7:39 PM

America loves a winner!

Fair to say that being deeply cut is a bit different than being completely run through ? In the screening ( dunno how many got to see it ) , it was overly apparent that the blade ran out the back of Mal's torso. In the BDM, it was less obvious, and just looked like he got " stuck ".

That wound was awfully close to where he got shot, too, in 'Out of Gas'. And Kaylee was shot in darn near the same area as well. Any reason for that ? I have to guess that Joss has been asked that, a time or two.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:07 PM

DALEK!

I love both, just the movie a little bit less. I do understand the Joss was trying to serve two masters with the movie.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:22 PM

I watch Serenity about once or twice a year, and I just finished going through the series again. The differences are quite stark. The people are quite different. That said, I like it all, but I do almost consider them as two different objects.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That wound was awfully close to where he got shot, too, in 'Out of Gas'. And Kaylee was shot in darn near the same area as well. Any reason for that ?

Same reason Jayne got it in the leg twice; puncture an organ, lose a character.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I do almost consider them as two different objects.

In space?

I take it as two different kinds of lenses on the same group.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:59 PM

Obviously. Everything is in space. And everything we are and everything we have on Earth came from the creation of our solar system.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:02 PM

Tell that to the Cylons.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:18 PM

Count Iblis made the first Ceylons before the onset of the 1000 Yahrens War. His voice was programmed into the first Imperious Leader. Iblis was a fallen angel from the advanced civilization we saw in the Ship of Lights. He may not have been the only one. And they never die, at least not in any reference of time that mortals can comprehend.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Count Iblis made the first Ceylons before the onset of the 1000 Yahrens War. His voice was programmed into the first Imperious Leader. Iblis was a fallen angel from the advanced civilization we saw in the Ship of Lights. He may not have been the only one. And they never die, at least not in any reference of time that mortals can comprehend.

You have put much thought into this, my friend. Almost as much time as I put into my model two yahrens ago...

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:17 PM

But back on topic, watching Firefly is like reading a long novel; Serenity is the Cliff Notes finale. But what a lightning fast skim!

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:36 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

No, I'd say that Serenity is more like a novel, with Firefly a short story anthology.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
No, I'd say that Serenity is more like a novel, with Firefly a short story anthology.

Well... yeah! Okay, I like that analogy better! Good one!

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:12 PM

Great model! I think I even see a celestial navigation dome above the main thrusters!

Firefly is like Casseopia the med tech. Serenity is like Casseopia the socialtor.

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Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Firefly is like Casseopia the med tech. Serenity is like Casseopia the socialtor.

That makes a strange and compelling kind of sense to me....

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 8:59 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That wound was awfully close to where he got shot, too, in 'Out of Gas'. And Kaylee was shot in darn near the same area as well. Any reason for that ?
Same reason Jayne got it in the leg twice; puncture an organ, lose a character.

Wait... what ?

I think ya lost me there on that one.

Mal's 2 abdomen ( well, make that 3, if you count his poke in the side in Shindig )comes far closer to puncturing an organ than Jayne's leg wounds.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 9:42 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity

AURAPTOR
Wait... what ?

I think ya lost me there on that one.

Mal's 2 abdomen ( well, make that 3, if you count his poke in the side in Shindig )comes far closer to puncturing an organ than Jayne's leg wounds.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

At the rate Mal was getting punctured it is probably best Firefly didn't run longer than it did.

I'm just a brown pair of shoes in a room full of tuxedos.

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 10:57 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Well, I'm a follower of both Shepard Book and Wash, so I gotta come down in the "movie not so much" camp. I do seem to be one of the few, if not the only.

But I wonder just what Alan did on the set to piss Joss off so bad. I take Wash's death extremely personally.

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:42 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by SC_FF_FAN:
Whedon must have felt keeping the hope alive for a sequel would have killed his chances for new projects like the Marvel universe.

Joss' work on Avengers didn't start until at least five years after Serenity was in theaters, so I don't think that had anything to do with why he structured the movie the way he did. As Second continually points out, the original script had all the crew survive to the end of the movie, but he changed that to make it more dramatic. If you have seen any of Joss' other TV shows, you know that they continued past the deaths of characters, and the same would apply to Firefly/Serenity had the movie been more profitable.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
But I wonder just what Alan did on the set to piss Joss off so bad. I take Wash's death extremely personally.

Nothing, Alan agreed to it willingly.

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Sunday, April 13, 2014 3:42 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:
Originally posted by SC_FF_FAN:
Whedon must have felt keeping the hope alive for a sequel would have killed his chances for new projects like the Marvel universe.

Joss' work on Avengers didn't start until at least five years after Serenity was in theaters, so I don't think that had anything to do with why he structured the movie the way he did. As Second continually points out, the original script had all the crew survive to the end of the movie, but he changed that to make it more dramatic. If you have seen any of Joss' other TV shows, you know that they continued past the deaths of characters, and the same would apply to Firefly/Serenity had the movie been more profitable.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

How ever you want to call it , the " Oh, Shit! " reaction, " He did NOT just do that! " , etc... Joss absolutely LOVES to pull the rug out from everyone, and just when all hope is lost, to have his " Ah HA! " moment, followed by yet one more " Dammit ! " scene.

That stuff plays great to the uninitiated, those not familiar w/ his work. But going back to Angel and Buffy, it's a pattern I've come to expect.

That's why Cabin in the Woods was hardly as surprising for me as it was for others, who haven't seen ANY of his work before. It's like I knew the plot, but was still entertained as to how it was going to play out.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, April 14, 2014 7:02 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
There are two kind of Firefly fans:

1)"I love the series, but the movie... not so much."

2)"I love it ALL."

I sit proudly in the second section.

Let's discuss...

Camp #1.

I don't hate the movie and I appreciate that it's a pretty extraordinary thing for it to have been made. I like aspects of it a lot. Space battle! River bar fight!

But... it just doesn't contain enough of the elements I liked about the show and deals too superficially with the new stuff. Alliance is EVIL is a lot less interesting than the more complex structure they had on the show. River is the driving force behind them discovering what happened on Miranda and then she's has no voice to comment on it safe for "turn me into a stone" and looking around doe-eyed until it's time to kick Reaver ass? Makes her flat and boring. Mal threatens to shoot down his own crew-- what?? And that has zero consequences or is never mentioned again? Screw you, movie.

I rewatch the show, but only very occasionally rewatch the movie. It doesn't engage my imagination like the show did and as time passes the disappointed of that just gets worse.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 8:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Serenity just doesn't contain enough of the elements I liked about the show and deals too superficially with the new stuff. . . . It doesn't engage my imagination like the show did . . .

Serenity (2005) is a very slim version of what would have been an entire television season. What would things have been like if Joss Whedon had been able to tell the story of Serenity in 22 episodes rather than 2 hours?

Firefly: Still Flying has written that second season as a labor of love. Episodes are being posted every week. It is now at episode 8. www.bznetwork.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=365.0

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, April 14, 2014 10:31 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Firmly in the camp of loving both the series and the BDM.

_______________________________________________

Holding the line since December '02!

C.O. 76th Independent Battalion

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com

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Monday, April 14, 2014 10:45 AM

ZEEK

I like both the series and the movie. For me the line gets drawn at the comics. They just seem like fanfic to me. They don't have the same feel as the live action stuff.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 3:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
it just doesn't contain enough of the elements I liked about the show and deals too superficially with the new stuff. Alliance is EVIL is a lot less interesting than the more complex structure they had on the show. River is the driving force behind them discovering what happened on Miranda and then she's has no voice to comment on it safe for "turn me into a stone" and looking around doe-eyed until it's time to kick Reaver ass? Makes her flat and boring. Mal threatens to shoot down his own crew-- what?? And that has zero consequences or is never mentioned again? Screw you, movie.

You're one of those people who only like the first three seasons of Buffy, aren't you?

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Monday, April 14, 2014 5:23 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
it just doesn't contain enough of the elements I liked about the show and deals too superficially with the new stuff. Alliance is EVIL is a lot less interesting than the more complex structure they had on the show. River is the driving force behind them discovering what happened on Miranda and then she's has no voice to comment on it safe for "turn me into a stone" and looking around doe-eyed until it's time to kick Reaver ass? Makes her flat and boring. Mal threatens to shoot down his own crew-- what?? And that has zero consequences or is never mentioned again? Screw you, movie.
You're one of those people who only like the first three seasons of Buffy, aren't you?

Let me blow your mind: I never liked Buffy much at all.

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. Hmm, Cordelia, Tara and Giles I appreciated. Buffy herself I could barely stand much of the time.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 6:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I never liked Buffy much at all.

Words flai me.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 6:38 PM

DALEK!

I never liked Buffy. Angle was okay to watch if nothing else was on.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 6:41 PM

I'm dumbfounded beyond the capacity for rational thought.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 7:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Well, I'm a follower of both Shepard Book and Wash, so I gotta come down in the "movie not so much" camp. I do seem to be one of the few, if not the only.

But I wonder just what Alan did on the set to piss Joss off so bad. I take Wash's death extremely personally.

Check the commentary, I think from Joss in Message, the final episode. Wash was supposed to be Ice Man Super Pilot, but Alan decided to be goofball instead of the character Joss wrote, while Tim was directing. When Joss stopped by the set, he commented on the unprofessional change of Wash's character, and Alan and Tim admitted so.

Even when Jayne was on the verge of being killed off, Adam didn't pull that.

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Monday, April 14, 2014 11:06 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Seeing the characters you love on the big screen was something so very special that I have to give it to the film.

°...Well here I am.°

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 1:03 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I never liked Buffy. Angle was okay to watch if nothing else was on.

A fair number of gorram ingrates is what we have here.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:39 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I never liked Buffy much at all.
Words flai me.

Oh dear. You must have known it was possible, right?

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 12:59 PM

DALEK!

What a person can't be a fan of Firefly and not other works by Whedon?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Seeing the characters you love on the big screen was something so very special that I have to give it to the film.

Hey- long time no wave!
Say dude, did you get the comics that just came out?

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 4:37 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:
What a person can't be a fan of Firefly and not other works by Whedon?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

No, they really can't.

But it would appear that is the case, so...

So, why not a fan of Buffy or Angel ? I ask, not as some fanboy , like Chrissy seems to be , but as one who was actually late to the Whedon 'verse my own self. After Firefly, I wanted more. Didn't we all ? And since the BDM was a ways off, Angel and Buffy were still running, so I gave them a shot.

As one who wasn't on board w/ either show until after seeing Firefly, ( I never have been all that much into vampires , witches and the like ) I was pleasantly surprised.

So, what drew you into Firefly that you didn't see in either of the other shows ? ( Besides there being space whores. )

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:07 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:
What a person can't be a fan of Firefly and not other works by Whedon?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

No, they really can't.

But it would appear that is the case, so...

So, why not a fan of Buffy or Angel ? I ask, not as some fanboy , like Chrissy seems to be , but as one who was actually late to the Whedon 'verse my own self. After Firefly, I wanted more. Didn't we all ? And since the BDM was a ways off, Angel and Buffy were still running, so I gave them a shot.

As one who wasn't on board w/ either show until after seeing Firefly, ( I never have been all that much into vampires , witches and the like ) I was pleasantly surprised.

So, what drew you into Firefly that you didn't see in either of the other shows ? ( Besides there being space whores. )

Buffy felt to me like a serious version of Scooby Doo, you know with more killing and less narcotics. In all seriousness it just seemed two unbelievable that you would have all these different monsters about but the majority of the world unaware. Angle had the same problem, but I liked David Boreanaz so I would watch that if I came by it. Same thing for Bones now.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:31 PM

I only saw Buffy & Angel after I saw FF on DVD circa 2005. I like Buffy quite a bit. Angel was good, but I only own a few discs of that series that are Buffy-related. Later, Dollhouse left me rather cold.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 6:26 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I also didn't watch Buffy or Angel until after Firefly, when discussions of those shows would creep into threads on this site.

I like Buffy a lot, but Angel even more, mainly due to the darker tone and because I think it had one of the best series finales of all time. I appreciate Dollhouse more now than when I watched it on first broadcast, plus the original pilot "Echo" was better than the first episode we did get to see, "Ghost." I didn't get to see that or "Epitaph" until the DVDs were released.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:43 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Seeing the characters you love on the big screen was something so very special that I have to give it to the film.

Hey- long time no wave!
Say dude, did you get the comics that just came out?

Hey Big C.

Yeah I have been out of the loop. Bad form on my part but work load has gone bananas. Still I pop in when I can and happened to catch this very nifty thread :D

Not had a chance to glance at the comics. I must keep an eye out though. Was it good?

In terms of the Buffy Angel, I love them both. To really enjoy those shows however you have to watch Buffy and Angel chronologically.

°...Well here I am.°

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Tuesday, April 15, 2014 10:02 PM