Why Fox *really* cancelled Firefly... by wesleywyndham

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Fox *really* cancelled Firefly...

POSTED BY: WESLEYWYNDHAM
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 09:09
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VIEWED: 5137
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Saturday, October 16, 2004 10:47 AM

Isn't it obvious? Serenity doesn't have any guns. No fancy laser blasters, torpedoes, energy shields, cloaking devices etc etc...

Instead of Battlestar Galactica-type dogfights in space, the crew have to use their wits to get out of nasty situations. Trickery, negotiation, even outright surrender are employed rather than just relying on a trusty laser cannon. It's all about guile.

This concept was obviously too radical for the TV studio executives to handle.

I can't think of any other space-based TV show where the main spacecraft wasn't weaponed-up and itching to shoot something every episode. Well, maybe Thunderbirds. And Dr Who.

But that's it.

In my book that makes the whole premise much more beliveable. Serenity is a cargo ship, not a battlecruiser.

David.

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Saturday, October 16, 2004 2:53 PM

DELIA

Pretty sure there's a thread on a similar topic somewhere, but I don't have time to find it.

Moya on Farscape also doesn't have guns. I know there are others, but I can't think of them. Like I said, there's a thread somewhere.

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Saturday, October 16, 2004 3:02 PM

BALTIMOREBROWNOAT89

I think you made a good point. Cause all the netwos now, are looking for either reality shows or shows where in every episode somebody gets their a** kicked or getting blown up. But that is an understanding reason for them to cancel the show.

BaltimoreBrowncoat89

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Saturday, October 16, 2004 10:41 PM

WESLEYWYNDHAM

I never really watched Farscape all that much -- didn't remember about it until after I'd posted.

Didn't they give Moya an energy shield at some point in the series though? And they had Aeryn's fighter ship on board... and then Moya gave birth to Talyn, a genetically-engineered living gunship.

I take your point though.

"My food is problematic."

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 5:27 AM

CYBERSNARK

The shield was more trouble than it was worth. There was also D'Argo's Lo'la, with it's big-ass gun.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 6:35 AM

ZOID

'snark:

...whatever Lo'la wants, Lo'la gets.

Sorry. Damned Yankees...

(Show)Tunefully,

zoid

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 6:41 AM

SERGEANTX

Absolutely. The whole thing that made the premise so special was no-doubt part of Fox's difficulty with the show. I think they wanted 'Buffy in Space' with some super space slayers fighting intergalactic monster aliens to save the galaxy.

When they got a character based drama about a makeshift family struggling to find its way -- I guess they just couldn't imagine how they'd sell that.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 7:06 AM

WESLEYWYNDHAM

Yes, given the success of Buffy and Angel I think they may have been expecting something similar. What they actually got was much, much better though. And I say that as a long-time fan of both series and owner of all the DVD sets...

"War Stories" in particular just blew anything I'd seen on Buffy or Angel into the dust. It was more like a combination of "Heat" and "Reservoir Dogs".

David.

"My food is problematic."

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:21 AM

ANNIK

Yep ... the typical TV fare these days seems like something out of the old Second City TV days (SCTV, the birthplace of hosers Bob and Doug McKenzie):

"Yep ... blowed 'em up good. Real good! Yeah!"

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:31 AM

SOUTHERNMERC

This topic has been done to death, but I have to say that there is one show on network TV that isn't below the low standards typically employed there. I'm talking about the ABC show "Lost." Holy cow, a show that takes its time revealing the mystery? Characters that you actually CARE what happens to them? Plenty of backstory on the folks who crashed? Holy moley! Someone was listening! We got us a genuine TV drama! AND IT WASN'T CANCELLED THREE EPISODES IN!

I may feint.

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:34 AM

ANNIK

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
This topic has been done to death, but I have to say that there is one show on network TV that isn't below the low standards typically employed there. I'm talking about the ABC show "Lost." Holy cow, a show that takes its time revealing the mystery? Characters that you actually CARE what happens to them? Plenty of backstory on the folks who crashed? Holy moley! Someone was listening! We got us a genuine TV drama! AND IT WASN'T CANCELLED THREE EPISODES IN!

I may feint.

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

Yes ... it's brilliant. I'm very impressed. It would be great even if there was decent dramadic competition out there, instead of all the reality-schlock. In *this* TV landscape, it not only shines, it outright glitters!

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:37 AM

SOUTHERNMERC

Yeah, and I can't wait til the next ep!

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 10:29 AM

DELIA

Quote:
Originally posted by wesleywyndham:
Yes, given the success of Buffy and Angel I think they may have been expecting something similar. What they actually got was much, much better though. And I say that as a long-time fan of both series and owner of all the DVD sets...

Would never have guessed you were an Angel/Buffy fan from the username . . . .

I think the list of reasons that Fox cancelled the show could go on a good long while, but it can pretty much be summed up, "They got something brilliant and original, had no idea what to do with it, and then got impatient when it wasn't a huge hit in 2 weeks."

Oh, and the kiss of death time slot, lack of advertising, pre-emptions, and scrambled episode order probably didn't help.

___________________________________________
Angel: People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do.
Hamilton: Yeah, but we won't care.

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Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:58 PM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
Yeah, and I can't wait til the next ep!

Jayne: "You got yourself lookin' mighty hideous!"

Agreed. What I like is that they are slowly letting us get to know all the characters, but at the same time, they're building the mystery - adding plot points - of the island in every episode. I hope this show goes on for a long time because it's obvious that the producers don't intend to answer all the questions they are raising for quite awhile. If the show was cancelled soon, we'd be left with so many unanswered questions again - just like when Firefly was cancelled.

Apathy on the Rise No One Cares.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 4:07 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Welcome to the site WesleyWyndham. It's a pleasure to have you aboard.

I can agree w/ your assessment of Fox's inability to understand Firefly, and it's subsequent cancellation. Fox is only interested in big ratings, and unfortunately ratings only seem to come from mind numbing reality shows, or programs w/ lots of T&A or flashy special effects. I guess most of the masses can't wrap their minds around the concept of character development and plot lines.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, October 18, 2004 8:25 AM

SHEPHERDQ

Ratings and MONEY !!!!
The ratings COULD have been good, but they decided to kill it before it aired so ratings had little to do with it. That leaves 1. the execs were backbirths and had no clue what makes good sci fi and 2. they looked at the cost per episode and decide the return % was MUCH higher for another cheap dumb reality show and went with that. Low saleries, low budget, and can be cut and edited to look dramatic on promos each week.
This disease is not limited to Fox TV. we had a disater flick that did ok in the box office, but blowing the heck out of DVD sales... That will jog the boys everywhere to dig out the bad dusty scripts thinking they can put out junk and it will make big bucks. They will fall on butt so all producers will once again shy away from disater flicks for a few years.. they never never get it... Spend some bucks, pick good people, make it good and you will make the bucks... put out junk and ya get bupkiss.

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabbey.com

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Monday, October 18, 2004 11:59 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Come on people, according to Ghoulman Star Trek: Enterprise is the reason Fox cancelled Firefly.;)

Ka is a wheel, time but a face on the water.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 2:16 PM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Welcome to the site WesleyWyndham. It's a pleasure to have you aboard.

I can agree w/ your assessment of Fox's inability to understand Firefly, and it's subsequent cancellation. Fox is only interested in big ratings, and unfortunately ratings only seem to come from mind numbing reality shows, or programs w/ lots of T&A or flashy special effects. I guess most of the masses can't wrap their minds around the concept of character development and plot lines.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

LONG RANT WARNING:

I think Browncoat1 is getting at something that we browncoats all innately know, but haven't overtly stated. The great majority of tv viewers are neither very intelligent nor very well educated - at least not to the level of Firefly fans. Look at the evidence: Really intelligent shows like Firefly, Wonderfalls, and a few others have low viewership and get cancelled quickly for low ratings. Idiotic schlock like Joe Millionaire, etc. has huge viewership, high ratings and stays on tv forever.

I know that we like to blame the networks, specifically F*X (and there is plenty to blame them for), but a lot of the programming decisions that are made are, unfortunately, due to the actual wants of the viewing public.

Joss's shows are cerebral (most tv viewers are not). They are basically modern day versions of what Shakespeare wrote. In other words, they are way over the heads of most people. The fans who populate this site are obviously more intelligent/educated than the average tv viewer and that shows in your various posts. Most of the really, extremely intelligent people I know don't watch tv at all because of the intellectual wasteland it represents. Think about it. Before Joss came along, what really intellectually stimulating shows can you name that were on tv. Other than Jeopardy, I can't remember anything before Buffy that really made me think, much anyway.

And therein lies the problem. When most people watch tv, they don't want to think. They mostly just want mindless entertainment where everything is laid out on a platter for them so they don't have to strain their grey matter at all.

It's very unfortunate (for us, mostly), but shows like Firefly and Wonderfalls are often doomed BECAUSE they are high quality, intelligent entertainment. Most people would rather watch Jerry Springer.

OK, RANT OVER.

I would like to apologize for my rant heavy day. I recently had a knee operation and am in some discomfort, which makes me irritable. When I'm irritable, I rant. Sorry again.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 5:05 PM

YANKSNO1

Fox really cancelled Firefly because Fox is really stupid. They've cancelled a lot of very good shows they didn't give a chance. Firefly was no different.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 6:48 PM

NYWOE

Quote:

Joss's shows are cerebral (most tv viewers are not). They are basically modern day versions of what Shakespeare wrote.

Although I think you have a good point about Joss being like Shakespeare, I disagree about either of them being only for "cerebral" viewers.

A large part of the reason that Shakespeare was so popular in his time was that his stories appealed both to the educated upper-class as well as the uneducated masses. We only think of his works as challenging today because the language is becoming more foreign.

I think there's plenty for both types of people to watch in Joss's work, and I think that's why he just may blow everyone away when Serenity comes out.

But you are forgivin your crankiness on accounta' your knees. I hope they are feeling better! :(

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Monday, October 18, 2004 10:03 PM

THEWILDCARD

I dunno if many of you remember but FOX had a Sci-fi show called "Space: Above and Beyond". It appeared maybe in 1996 I am guessing?

In any case, it was about space marines fighting an alien race. Although I thought it featured alot of guns and space fights, FOX also cancelled it too after a year.

So I guess sci-fi series, with the exception of X-files, just don't work for FOX, lol...

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 3:37 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

BikisDad wrote:

Quote:
LONG RANT WARNING:

I think Browncoat1 is getting at something that we browncoats all innately know, but haven't overtly stated. The great majority of tv viewers are neither very intelligent nor very well educated - at least not to the level of Firefly fans. Look at the evidence: Really intelligent shows like Firefly, Wonderfalls, and a few others have low viewership and get cancelled quickly for low ratings. Idiotic schlock like Joe Millionaire, etc. has huge viewership, high ratings and stays on tv forever.

Ok, I didn't actually want to come out and say that BD, but it is what I and many other Browncoats feel.

Quote:
I know that we like to blame the networks, specifically F*X (and there is plenty to blame them for), but a lot of the programming decisions that are made are, unfortunately, due to the actual wants of the viewing public.

Exactly. The state of the American viewing public gives me concern. We seem to be fast becoming a society that wants to live vicariously through the so called "reality" show antics on television. This mindless, obviously scripted tripe is what has American audiences drooling for more. It is as if people are too ruttin' lazy to even spend the time or effort to keep up w/ a plot line that will make them think, character development, or a backstory.

Quote:
Joss's shows are cerebral (most tv viewers are not). They are basically modern day versions of what Shakespeare wrote. In other words, they are way over the heads of most people. The fans who populate this site are obviously more intelligent/educated than the average tv viewer and that shows in your various posts. Most of the really, extremely intelligent people I know don't watch tv at all because of the intellectual wasteland it represents. Think about it. Before Joss came along, what really intellectually stimulating shows can you name that were on tv. Other than Jeopardy, I can't remember anything before Buffy that really made me think, much anyway.

Maybe that is my problem. See, I like Shakespeare and classic literature. Very little on TV holds my interest, save some select Sci Fi, the History & Discovery Channels, and Lost on ABC. I hope that America pulls out of this cultural nose dive.

Quote:
And therein lies the problem. When most people watch tv, they don't want to think. They mostly just want mindless entertainment where everything is laid out on a platter for them so they don't have to strain their grey matter at all.

It's very unfortunate (for us, mostly), but shows like Firefly and Wonderfalls are often doomed BECAUSE they are high quality, intelligent entertainment. Most people would rather watch Jerry Springer.

I agree. As I said above it appears that people are most content w/ shows that do not require too much in the way of thought. I personally can't watch a show that does not make me think.

Never understood the fascination w/ Springer. It is so obviously fake. I can't believe that people get so fired up over that show like it is real. Can they really be that naive? I would like to give people more benefit of the doubt, but perhaps I am giving them too much credit.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 4:44 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I hope that America pulls out of this cultural nose dive.

Well, for better or worse, most nose-dives aren't exactly sustainable.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:30 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Nywoe:

I think there's plenty for both types of people to watch in Joss's work, and I think that's why he just may blow everyone away when Serenity comes out.

I so very much hope that you're right and I'm wrong. We both know that "Serenity" will be a great movie. However, I'm a little worried about how well that will translate into commercial success.

The only movie that I've seen in the theatre in many years was "Dodgeball", which I went to see to support Alan Tudyk. That movie was an interesting mix of intelligent, Joss-like humor and the sophomoric, Adam Sandler version of "humor" (and I'm using the term very loosely in that instance). One thing I noticed during that movie actually made me worry about the potential success of "Serenity" while I was sitting there in the theatre. When there was a Joss-like, intelligent joke in the film, I was literally the ONLY person in the theatre laughing. After the really idiotic, gross, or just plain dumb jokes, most of the audience was rolling in the aisles while I sat there just rolling my eyes. I don't know whether other people saw that movie and had a different experience. I hope so. It just made me worry some about "Serenity" is all...

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Tuesday, October 19, 2004 9:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SouthernMerc- Wait until Lost has aired for 15 eps, then you can breath easy!

Just having watched Outfoxed- about Fox's relentless ideological drive- I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason to cancel FF was due to politics. Yup, politics.

I know this was brought up in the previous thread, I more or less dismissed the notion at the time, but I'm beginning to think the notion might be correct. FF is in fact quite political. It explores what human being do to eachother en masse, and if that isn't politics, economics, and religion all balled up into one messy package I don't know what is. Look at it this way- they never really gave FF a chance. It's as if they had decided to kill it b4 it was even aired. I think Fox just couldn't stomach the message.

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