What if 'Serenity' had been called 'FIrefly'? by OPPYH

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What if 'Serenity' had been called 'FIrefly'?

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Sunday, June 27, 2010 08:13
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Monday, June 21, 2010 9:41 AM

If The Film Serenity had the name Firefly would it have done better at the box office? Just saying, because I remember a couple ahead of me at the theater saying they didn't know what Serenity was, and it was a dumb name for a movie. Really can't argue their point.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 9:48 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

It's possible I suppose, but unfortunately the name "Firefly" could not be used as Fox still owned rights to it. It may have helped, but I doubt it would have made a huge difference. The ads clearly would have jogged the memories of anyone that had seen the show and we browncoats ran an aggressive viral marketing campaign for the movie.

The problem in my mind is that when people look at movies they look for familiar faces in the trailer. If they don't recognize A list stars they generally discount it out of hand. Look how many new browncoats showed up after the dvd hit rental and store shelves. These people avoided it in theatres due to no big name actors, but took a chance on it from a rental outlet and were hooked.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 12:23 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

You must not have been around from the beginning, because there were quite a few critics saying that Firefly was a bad name for the series since it didn't convey what the show was about. Anyone who was a fan of the show knew exactly what Serenity was, and personally I think it was the perfect name for the BDM (except of course if Joss had called it "Big Damn Movie").

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 12:28 PM

BYTEMITE

It would have been canceled after the first thirteen minutes.

From the movie theatres.

Sorry, dark humour mood.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 12:31 PM

ZEEK

It seems like a standard Joss move. To me it screams "If you aren't going to give a movie a chance just because of the title then I don't want you watching my movie anyway". It's like with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I think we can all agree that the first time you hear that you think it's a silly title. If anyone can't look past the silly title then they aren't ready to look deep enough at the characters either.

Serenity is a pretty bad title all around. It doesn't give new comers any idea what they're in for. It works fine for us fans but I be "Space Fight Boobie War" would have made more money at the box office.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 12:38 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I'm not sure Firefly would have been much better, but for me Serenity as the title said, "I'm doing this for the fans... the people who know and care... and then I'm going to kill 2 of their favorite characters." What a mad elf he is.

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Monday, June 21, 2010 1:04 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
You must not have been around from the beginning, because there were quite a few critics saying that Firefly was a bad name for the series since it didn't convey what the show was about. Anyone who was a fan of the show knew exactly what Serenity was, and personally I think it was the perfect name for the BDM (except of course if Joss had called it "Big Damn Movie").

I was around from the beginning.

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70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, June 21, 2010 2:36 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
It's possible I suppose, but unfortunately the name "Firefly" could not be used as Fox still owned rights to it.

Is this why the word "Firefly" wasn't used in movie? I can't recall the scene where they did.

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Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Monday, June 21, 2010 9:06 PM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
If The Film Serenity had the name Firefly would it have done better at the box office? Just saying, because I remember a couple ahead of me at the theater saying they didn't know what Serenity was, and it was a dumb name for a movie. Really can't argue their point.

I'm fairly sure there was a thread started here before the movie was announced posing the question if "Serenity" would be a good movie title. I seem to remember several people, including myself, having misgivings about a Firefly movie being titled "Serenity".

My apprehension was that people unfamiliar with the 'Verse would see that title and think "chick flick", or even worse... "boring". Now there could be some who might make the leap and wonder if the name was one of those purposely sarcastic titles meant to put the audience in a headlock and whip them around a good 180 degrees, as anyone who has seen "Happiness" can attest.

Sure the existing fans would "get" the title, but for the movie to be a success it needed to pull in new fans too. It was crucial that the first movie be enough of a financial success that Universal would move forward on the 3 picture contract. As much as die hard fans, and independent minded creators, bristle at the thought of making creative decisions to appeal to a wider audience... but perhaps coming up with a title that would work better to spike the curiosity of new people to see the movie might have been a good thing. It would have been so great if Serenity had been more financially successful as we would have had two more movies after it. Oh well...

Keep in mind that this is the opinion of a dedicated Firefly guerilla marketer, so I was very concerned that the movie have the best chance possible to reach A LOT of new fans. Getting the 'Verse restarted seemed like it would happen, but it all depended on the success of the movie. Creative decisions that didn't particularly help to draw in new fans, or alienated existing ones, doomed the 'Verse to another early death.

"Firefly", as a movie title, was not able to be used due to the rights issues as already mentioned up-thread. In comparison to "Serenity, it has a liveliness and curiosity factor. I live in the camp that always loved the name "Firefly".

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:01 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
It's possible I suppose, but unfortunately the name "Firefly" could not be used as Fox still owned rights to it.

Is this why the word "Firefly" wasn't used in movie? I can't recall the scene where they did.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

I don't know the why but the only mention of Firefly that, almost, got into the movie was this line spoken by the Ensign: “We got a pos on a retinal -- man carrying her out is Malcolm Reynolds, captains a Firefly-class transport ship, "Serenity". Bound by law five times, smuggling, tariff dodge... not convicted.” But that line was cut, cut, cut from the finished movie. Instead, that same information, except the Firefly-class, was on the Operative's computer display. I am guessing Joss cut the spoken line mentioning Firefly and added the computer display brainstorm in the film-editing process. For the script see page 89 of Serenity - The Official Visual Companion or page 47 of Serenity-126pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:05 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
I'm fairly sure there was a thread started here before the movie was announced posing the question if "Serenity" would be a good movie title. I seem to remember several people, including myself, having misgivings about a Firefly movie being titled "Serenity".

My apprehension was that people unfamiliar with the 'Verse would see that title and think "chick flick", or even worse... "boring". Now there could be some who might make the leap and wonder if the name was one of those purposely sarcastic titles meant to put the audience in a headlock and whip them around a good 180 degrees, as anyone who has seen "Happiness" can attest.

See the thread "Serenity" Listed as One of the Most Unfortunate Movies Titles Ever www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=31560

If I had my way, Serenity 2 would be called "Killer Angels". Ironic titles like "Serenity" don't work for me. My other favored Serenity 2 alternative titles are "Kamikaze River" and "River's Revenge". That's me -- irony free.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 2:12 AM

JONGSSTRAW

It really is a shame that the movie was titled Serenity. I think there are millions of sci-fi fans out there who still have no knowledge of our wonderful 'verse. A better movie title might have increased the ticket sales, but all evidence seemingly points to Joss really not caring about that. He knew what he was doing. He did the BDM for the Browncoats, no one else, and sequel be damned!

Funny, now years later, our BDH's are the biggest stars on TV. Nathan, Morena, Summer, and Christina are all recognizeable household names now. I'd like to see an effort for a made-for-TV movie special that re-unites them all for a new Firefly adventure.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:59 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm. I think neither one is a bad name for a FRANCHISE.

The only downside of both is that they don't immediately say "I'm a space sci-fi" or "I'm a space western" to any would be fans. I suspect Firefly may have had a problem attracting sci-fi fans while it was on Fox for that reason, same as Serenity not attracting sci-fi fans.

A possible alternative for Serenity would have been to give the movie a more sci-fi sounding sub title, kind of the reverse of Star Wars (sci-fi sounding franchise title): A New Hope (non sci-fi sounding sub title). It would also have suggested the promise of further movies.

As for Firefly itself, it's hard to not like the title referencing the type of the ship, and the look of a Firefly is a nice design. Plus there's this whole eastern connection about how Fireflies ferry around souls, which is perfect. definitely the ship should remain a firefly class, and keep its design.

But, I dunno. Maybe they could have called Firefly "The Rim" or something? The series mostly takes place out there, and it's about kind of continuing the spirit (in helping River) of the Independents (representing the Rim worlds) fight against the Alliance. It's also close to the concept of an "edge" without stepping on the toes of pre-existing series. Maybe it has a kind of western frontier feel to it, also? Like the rim of a wagon wheel spoke, which would've been a title drop in the pilot, from Badger. Something that suggests what people might expect when they see the name of the show.

Might have an association with "rimshot," which could be good or bad. Comedy suggestion, not so good. Suggestion of "rimshot" broadcasting, better. Gunplay, better. Suggestion of being shot out to the Rimworlds, better.

There also might be a crude slang term this reminds me of, but I can't think of it right now.

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Tuesday, June 22, 2010 6:49 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
But, I dunno. Maybe they could have called Firefly "The Rim" or something? The series mostly takes place out there, and it's about kind of continuing the spirit (in helping River) of the Independents (representing the Rim worlds) fight against the Alliance. It's also close to the concept of an "edge" without stepping on the toes of pre-existing series. Maybe it has a kind of western frontier feel to it, also? Like the rim of a wagon wheel spoke, which would've been a title drop in the pilot, from Badger. Something that suggests what people might expect when they see the name of the show.

Might have an association with "rimshot," which could be good or bad. Comedy suggestion, not so good. Suggestion of "rimshot" broadcasting, better. Gunplay, better. Suggestion of being shot out to the Rimworlds, better.

There also might be a crude slang term this reminds me of, but I can't think of it right now.

There is a good reason not to use Rim in a Firefly/Serenity movie title: Two movies in development are already using Rim www.imdb.com/title/tt1663662/ www.imdb.com/title/tt1205493/

And then there is the vulgar reason not to use Rim. Ask Jayne to explain. He knows and he'd want to see that movie.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:50 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
My apprehension was that people unfamiliar with the 'Verse would see that title and think "chick flick", or even worse... "boring".

My point exactly. 'Serenity' as a name for a movie is rather bland and unbecoming of such a fast paced sci-fi epic that it is.

I know 'Firefly' could not be used, but I'm sure there could be a better name suited for the film.

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70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, June 24, 2010 10:33 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I can't speak to anyone else, but the movie pulled me in sufficiently to bring me here. I couldn't see what the title had to do with what I saw in the previews (I actually thought Serenity might be the name of the mysterious kick-ass chick I caught a glimpse of, but of course that was River) but the preview made me want to see it, and I wondered what the title might ultimately mean. Of course, my research into the movie's parent show led me to wonder what the heck 'Firefly' was referring to.
Deep as my love is for show and ship, I think both titles have some issues when it comes to widespread appeal. They're rather enigmatic.

[/sig]

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Thursday, June 24, 2010 12:29 PM

PARANOYD

Let me speak as a "new fan". I saw the name "Serenity" on the shelves when the movie came out and can safely say, I passed on it.

Two major problems:

1) No big name actors. (An actor with a bit role in Saving Private Ryan - one of my all-time favorite movies - and another supporting actor from A Knight's Tale wasn't much of a draw.)

2) Doesn't at all paint a picture of what the movie is about. "Western Space Wars in the Future" would have been a better title for the non-fan base... as rediculous as that sounded.

My curiosity wasn't piqued until it hit Netflix and I wasn't dedicating money to it. Now I've considering buying it on BlueRay...

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Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:19 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by Paranoyd:

...An actor with a bit role in Saving Private Ryan...

Bit part? Bah!

He WAS Private Ryan!

I actually used that to get a couple of people to watch Serenity in the theatre.

"It stars the guy that played Private Ryan..."

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:53 AM

IMNOTHERE

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It would have been canceled after the first thirteen minutes.
From the movie theatres.

I think it pretty much was - that's the problem.

The name wasn't broken. The movie wasn't broken. The system is broken: if a film isn't #1 at the box office on its opening weekend it gets dumped - and the only way to ensure that is to have a Big Name, a by-the-numbers plot and lots of shit blowing up in the trailer. There is no time for word-of-mouth to set in.

Its touch and go whether Star Wars IV would have made it today without a big name - even though it had the ideal name.

I suspect that the BDMs other failing was that its main commercial success was to sell another metric shedload of Firefly box sets - for Fox. Had the film and the series been made by the same company, I think we might have seen a second film or a new series.

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 7:13 AM

BYTEMITE

That's a good point. So that kinda goes back to the initial lack of success on Fox, which was mostly schedule shuffle, death slot, and not knowing how to market it.

And hand in hand with the last part is the name, Firefly, which people would see and Joss Whedon said they would even ASK what it was. If they have to ask, they're probably not going to watch, right?

...I'm really liking the whole Rim idea, if we could just get it so it doesn't call to mind anything nasty, and more calling up a sense of science fiction.

Rimworld? Multiple planets on the rim, but the poverty and struggle to survive, that's the "world" of Serenity and her crew.

Only problem is, when I googled Rimworld, a page came up called Rimworld.com that I wasn't sure I wanted to click. The next link down, there was a wikipedia article with a cite from Rimworld.com called "All About Balls." It's supposed to be about a rocket launching competition called Balls (ballistic?), but I really don't trust it. ._.

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 7:27 AM

RIVERDANCER

"Rimworld" has two things it sounds very much like. The first is "Ringworld" which certainly fits the category of science fiction, but calling something that is science fiction by a name that so very closely recalls another sci-fi franchise might be a bad idea.
Then, of course, there is rimjob, as you seem to have noted. It might get... certain people interested, but then they'd be disappointed.
Now, if you want something along those lines, perhaps "The Outer Rim" would have been more fitting, and perhaps not called up quite the same connotations. However, it may have, and I've always thought "Out to the Black" would have made an excellent title. It would be reflected in the theme song, it could call up images of flight into space, and it has a certain air of mystery that can be intriguing, without being completely obtuse. Another thing to consider in a title like this is that it might be slightly longer, but all of Whedon's greatest success stories have had long titles, and all his single-word-title shows got canceled. Could be a coincidence. Then again, could not be.

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:03 AM

BYTEMITE

Ah. I knew there was SOMETHING it sounded like sci fi series wise. Hmm, too bad. Your other suggestions are interesting.

Maybe Firefly is the best, though. It might not say "sci-fi western" but it's short and clever, which gives it a kind of oomph. And it doesn't sound like anything else.

I wonder if Angel got confused with Dark Angel, and hormone driven young men were disappointed to find an angsty male vampire instead of a hot nymphomaniac femme fatal wearing black leather.

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Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:13 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
"Rimworld" has two things it sounds very much like. The first is "Ringworld" which certainly fits the category of science fiction, but calling something that is science fiction by a name that so very closely recalls another sci-fi franchise might be a bad idea.

However, it may have, and I've always thought "Out to the Black" would have made an excellent title.

"Ringworm", "Ringworld", "Rimworld"

-- Are we trying to kill Firefly/Serenity? www.imdb.com/title/tt0360932/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0360924/

"Out to/of the Black" - It has already been made. www.imdb.com/title/tt0250636/

I got an idea: "Take Us Out Of This World"! Best title, ever.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0163475/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0282822/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0037964/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0263826/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0268516/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0371050/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0092423/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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