GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

A 'Bring Back Firefly' Petition URL is anyone is interested

POSTED BY: RGCHEEK
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 2, 2005 04:37
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8362
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Sunday, July 3, 2005 4:53 AM

RGCHEEK


http://www.petitiononline.com/cttsfu/petition.html

Its got 48 sigs so far; might get some momentum if some from this forum sign it.


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Sunday, July 3, 2005 4:55 AM

GROUNDED


This is kind of pointless...

There have been numerous discussions in the past about the fact that the movie deal precluded a return to TV for a long time.

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 6:01 AM

R1Z


You might want to touch up your grammar before sending this to anyone.

"This letter is a pleas to consider again"??

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 7:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RGCheek:
http://www.petitiononline.com/cttsfu/petition.html

Its got 48 sigs so far; might get some momentum if some from this forum sign it.




Firefly IS back. Check out SciFi channel, July 22nd, 7pm. ( Friday )

There, mission accomplished!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 7:53 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Of course they mean new episodes, not just a repeat of what we have all seen countless times on the dvds.

However, why is the petition addressed to UPN/CBS? It should be to NBC/Universal, the company that holds the current film rights to the story. The channels that company owns include NBC, USA, Bravo and the Sci-Fi Channel, among others.



wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, July 7, 2005 9:35 AM

RGCHEEK


I didnt start the petition, so I am not responsible for it; just letting people know it was there.

I am hoping that after the movie the series resumes production.

That is not unreasonable.

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Thursday, July 7, 2005 9:47 AM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by RGCheek:
I didnt start the petition, so I am not responsible for it; just letting people know it was there.

I am hoping that after the movie the series resumes production.

That is not unreasonable.



Actually, it is an unreasonable hope. Universal isn't going to have any interest in Fox profiting from their movie with a series revival. Fox (the studio, NOT the network) owns the TV production rights to the series. Unversal has the movie rights. For now the only Firefly we'll see, will be more movies. Fox sold the movie rights to Unversal, but kept the TV rights. Unversal and Joss couldn't return Firefly to TV without Fox's approval and involvement until the contract agreement expires (which has been quoted at 10 years). Believing otherwise, is just wishful thinking, and signing the petition is pointless!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Thursday, July 7, 2005 9:50 AM

AUROTER


Much of the potential series' renewel will be based on the movie. However, even Joss himself has stated that the liklihood is more movies, not more episodes.

Let's just go one step at a time. The movie will kick ass, and from there we can see who's going where. Thanx for the link anyway.

______________________________
you can't take the sky from me

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Thursday, July 7, 2005 11:44 AM

AZIRAPHALE


"Fox sold the movie rights to Unversal, but kept the TV rights. Unversal and Joss couldn't return Firefly to TV without Fox's approval and involvement."

Who's to say they won't get Fox's approval? Firefly was cancelled because it wasn't making the network enough money. The DVDs have sold far more than anyone expected, and are still going strong; if Serenity blows the top off the box office, Fox might reconsider.

Nobody else besides Fox can make Firefly-based TV for the next ~10 years, but that doesn't mean Fox themselves won't get back in on it before then. Right now it's fans of the TV series being pulled into the movie; they might want to take the chance that the movie will pull in fans to a new series. If I were an exec at Fox, I'd be watching the numbers very, very closely on this one: how often can you get a competing studio to advertise your own property for you?

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Thursday, July 7, 2005 12:56 PM

ACROWLEY


Might I suggest that you watch the movie, then discuss whether or not the series should return to TV?

Also - regardless of the movie - in the time it takes for FOX's rights to expire, it is feasible that none of the actors will be around / willing / available to reprise their roles.

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Friday, July 8, 2005 10:05 PM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Aziraphale:
"Fox sold the movie rights to Universal, but kept the TV rights. Universal and Joss couldn't return Firefly to TV without Fox's approval and involvement."

Who's to say they won't get Fox's approval?



Okay, you seem to be missing the point. Why would Universal want Fox to profit from "Universal's" movie? They wouldn't. They also would quickly lose any interest in further movie sequels if Fox had another Firefly series running. Why would Joss want to? Universal is giving him far more control over the movie than Fox did with the series. I doubt he would want to return to such a restrictive medium.

You guys are pissing into the wind with these TV revival dreams. It's not going to happen! Firefly will not return to television anytime soon, and if it ever does, it wouldn't be the show you remember anyway.

Be happy that we are getting movies. That's far more than anyone could hope for from a series that didn't even last one season! It's just proves that the Fox network didn't know what they had. God help us if Firefly does one day return to TV. Do you really think Joss would be eager to produce "Firefly: The Next Generation"? Truth is, Firefly was too good for television, like so many other intelligent shows Fox and other networks typically cancel (like Wonderfals, The Inside, Brisco County, The Tick, etc).

I'd much rather have the half season of great episodes, and a trilogy of movies to remember Firefly for, than an over blown mess of steadily declining series and movies like the Star Trek franchise became. In fact, I hope the words "Firefly" and "Franchise" are never used together to describe this universe Joss created!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Friday, July 8, 2005 10:11 PM

AZIRAPHALE


I didn't say Fox should bring back Firefly. I said they could. If the movie does well, they might see it as a viable property again. Nowhere did I go visiting Joss's intentions; nor did I say what I even thought of the idea.

Chill the fuck out, man.

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 12:03 AM

DAIKATH


Firefly as a tv series gas made me more obsessed then I have been with anything else.

Movies may be very cool -and absolutely a whole lot better then nothing-. But a weekly tv series would be even better.

We are still on this board, having the gazillionth discussion about the obstacles to bringing it back to tv, waiting for the comics after the delay, etc. Just for 13 episodes of a tv show.

A movie also won't allow very much time for the family moments, like in Out of Gas, or in the ending of Safe. To me those were the kind of moments that made me be a fan to this day. A movie won't allow for that, although we will always have the DVD and we should be ubergrateful for the movie,, it is a different medium.

I should be grateful for the movie and stop wishing.. But.. more episodes would be so cool.. Maybe all we have for now is the movie and roleplaying sessions, heh. Anyone know if Joss Whedon or any of the writers would be willing to write a roleplaying story? .

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 12:05 AM

GROUNDED


Crowley and Aziraphale in the same thread - spooky...

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 2:45 AM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Aziraphale:
I didn't say Fox should bring back Firefly. I said they could. If the movie does well, they might see it as a viable property again. Nowhere did I go visiting Joss's intentions; nor did I say what I even thought of the idea.

Chill the fuck out, man.



Oh change your diaper kid! Now you're not just pissing in the wind, but pissing yourself with that chill out crap! Chill the fuck out yourself!

Fox (the studio) CAN'T bring back Firefly without Joss, so your comment, "I said they could" is wrong! They don't own the rights to Firefly, just the TV distribution rights.

Fox (the network) Can't bring it back either. Once they canceled it, they lost any rights or interests in the show.

Fox (the network) would have to be even dumber than they were when they canceled it, not to already know it's a viable property. DVD sales prove that! Too bad for them. They lost their chance to profit from it, and Universal now will reap the financial rewards (but just from the movies). Fox (the studio) always believed Firefly was a viable property, or they wouldn't have greenlighted production on it in the first place. It was Fox (the network) that didn't know how to promote it, refused to show the two hour pilot, and mixed up and pre-empted the episodes. Fox (the studio) obviously respected Joss and Firefly more than the network, because when the box set came out, they put the episodes in the order Joss intended, not the order of the network aired them. Given the DVD sales, I wouldn't be surprised if Fox (the studio) wouldn't have greenlighted a Firefly movie themselves if they could have, but they couldn't because Joss had an exclusive movie deal with Universal. So, they did the next best thing. They sold movie rights to Firefly to Universal, knowing that a successful movie would only continue bolster the series DVD sales.

Make no mistake, Fox (the studio) is already profiting from Firefly, from DVD sales, and from the deal they made with the Sc-Fi channel. A successful movie, will only mean even more sales of the series box set, and even more profits for them, but it won't mean they will have a chance at another Firefly series. There's just to many roadblocks in their way.

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 9:03 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

There's just to many roadblocks in their way.


You know, that's exactly what people said about a firefly movie... innit?

Shall we prepare a plate of crow for you in advance ?

-F

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 11:42 AM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:

There's just to many roadblocks in their way.


You know, that's exactly what people said about a firefly movie... innit?

Shall we prepare a plate of crow for you in advance ?

-F



Not really. Universal wanted Joss working for/with them. They actively persued a movie deal with him. To get that deal, Joss had a simple demand, "Let me make my Firefly idea into a movie". That was typical Hollywood wheeling and dealing. For it to return as a series is much more problematic. Fox Studios has to be involved, and they will WANT to be involved. A network will have to want to carry it. Even if the movie is the big hit we expect, that won't be an easy sell. Network execs know that movies don't always make for sucessful series. My Big Fat Greek Life! Ring any bells? Universal has to approve the series, and they will also want their cut. Joss has to want to return Firefly to the more restictive limits of television. He has to go back to the medium where "no talent" execs second guess his every move, and where production budgets are far more limited. He could have produced an entire season of Firefly for what he shot Serenity for. Lastly, the cast has to want to return to TV. Most probably would want to, but if the movie is a big hit, some could get other movie offers that would preclude that.

Making Firefly into a movie was easy compaired to what it would take for it to return as a series.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong. As much I'm looking forward to several Firefly movies (Serenity and it's inevitable sequels), I'd much rather have 7 full seasons of Firefly. A show would allow for much more exploration of these characters, that movies just don't have the time to include. If I'm wrong, and Firfely does return with new episodes (within the ten year contract deal Fox still has with Joss), I'll happily eat my plate a crows. Unfortunately, being practical and knowing a little about how things work in this industry, it's extremely unlikey.

Anything could happen though. Years from now, when the contracts with Fox have expired, it could return more easily to television, in some form or another. It took almost 20 years for Star Trek to return to TV, but it wasn't really what the fans remembered. In the end, it became a bloated parody of itself. I'd rather that not happen to Firefly.

Do we really want to see the adventures of another captain and crew, aboard the Firefly class transport Serenity-D? "Firefly: The Next Generation". Or "Firefly: Niska's Deep Space Station". How about a show called "Firefly: Lost in Reaver Space" about a Firefly class transport, lost in a dangerous corner of the known verse, trying to get home on half a tank of gas. Lastly, lets not forget the inevitable prequel, "Firefly: The Early Years", dealing with the captain who owned the ship prior to Mal. Okay, extreme examples, but like Star Trek and Star Wars, Firefly could go to the well too many times. If it returns to TV as a (here's that dreaded word again) "Franchise", how much control do you think Joss will be able to maintain? How long before it begins to suck? How long before some pushy network or studio exec., demands alien races and a female character wearing a push-up bra and a catsuit? No thanks! I'd rather not eat that crow!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 10:34 PM

DAZ


"The deal they have with Universal precludes another TV show - so a revival ain't gonna happen. The plan is, if the film does well enough, to have a trilogy of films."
- Source: www.darkhorizons.com/news04/040503c.php

So far no-one in this thread has this pointed out. Correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding, Universal has banned Fox (or any subsequent TV rights holder) from ever exercising their right to make more TV serials while a movie deal with Universal is in place. Sorry to say, but the success of the above petition is close to impossible with this and all other existing legal and resourcing obstacles.

I second the sentiment that it would have been better to continue as a TV show than a movie series. Story and character dynamics between TV episodes would have been more suited to the complexities of this show. And we would have got more stories and screen time.

I also second the sentiment that we should all be happy that we've got a movie and move on. This is the best thing that could ever happen given the circumstances.

Some other moving on tips that I have adopted for myself and suggest to others:
1. Don't get stuck on Firefly. Get stuck on the future work of Joss Whedon. All the other things he creates from now is bound to be good.
2. Also start following the work of other creative minds from Mutant Enemy like Tim Minear and Jane Espenson.
3. Pay special attention when one or more of the original Firefly cast team up with those in the points above for other projects. Bound to be interesting.

Btw MacBaker, that line about "FireFly: Niska's Deep Space Station" sounded so silly it cracked me up. "Star Trek: DS9" was a shocking repudiation of the quality of the show that went before it.

EDIT: Just noticed that the very first poster already addressed the point of the TV series being precluded. Consider this comment as a substantiation.

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Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:21 AM

DAIKATH


You might be right Daz. But Firefly has touched me in a way previous Joss and Minear, etc projects have not done.

I will look forward to new projects of those poeple of course. But I will always want new firefly material as long as I feel there are stories left to be told. Stories true to the nature of the show.

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Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:48 PM

DAZ


Oh but you misunderstand me Daikath! Firefly resonated with me, my life and values almost as much as it did for you. I'm just as obsessed as yourself. I've bought a DVD set for watching, another for posterity, collated every interesting convention footage and show analysis articles as I can from the internet before it all disappears.

The difference I have to the people behind this latest petition is that I put my obsession in perspective. Although they're welcome to try, I think their efforts are grossly misdirected as its all but impossible to revive the TV show. The legal situation has seen to that. All that's left to us are the movies, comics, fanfic and maybe even fanvids to appreciate and contribute to.

Firefly the TV show might have been the equivalent to the aligning of the planets in terms of the talent assembled both in front and behind the camera (ie. once in a lifetime). However, all we can do now is just pickup the pieces (get the DVD, watch the movies), follow what's left (see the FF movie/comics), look to the future (keep a keen eye on Whedon/Minear future works) and move on.

It's very much like involuntarily falling in love with the most perfect girl who, after 3 heart rending dates, decides not to return your phone calls. You mope around for half a year in a daze of self pity. Then you decide there are much more important things you can do with your energy.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:06 AM

QBEAM




I think you've put your finger on something important, here. I think part of what makes Firefly so great requires the TV series format. In the same way that "The Waltons" let you know, and made you feel, like the episode was just one piece of the ongoing life of the family with the "goodnight Johnboy" ritual at the end, something about the "family around the table" on Serenity is going to be lost on people who see the movie without watching the series first. I predict a lot of people whose first Firefly experience is the movie are going to come out saying, "That was pretty cool, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about." For us, it will be like coming home from school, but for them, it will just be another movie.

Great movies revolve around great plots; great TV shows revolve around great characters. Most movies can only spare a few minutes--literally, three or so--for character development. But in TV shows, it's the character development that keeps people coming back. There's just no way for a movie to do both, given today's expectations. Either it will be an action-packed block-buster, or it will be "kinda boring" to people who don't already know the characters. Heck, go back and watch the 2-hr pilot again, and see how much it tells you about the characters--and that wasn't written to stand alone.

So sign me up with the "bring Firefly back to TV" group. For the people who want to dismiss it as impossible, I pitty them--I think it's just a defense mechanism. (Can't get hurt if you never hope for anything.) It's useful to consider what the obstacles are, for the purpose of figuring out a feasible way around them--so far, I haven't heard any that couldn't be gotten around.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:15 AM

QBEAM


"Fox (the network) Can't bring it back either. Once they canceled it, they lost any rights or interests in the show."

Huh? How did that happen? Firstly, that's not how it usually works. But if the contract were drawn up that way, then presumably the rights would revert to Joss. (Theoretically the contract could give them to a 3d party beneficiary, but I can't imagine why they'd do that.)

In short, the TV rights have to belong to someone. There's no legal reason why, whoever that is, they couldn't make a new series. I suspect you're mistaken, and it's Fox, but it could be Joss, who could go to anyone--most likely the Sci-Fi channel. I believe it was you who advanced the theory that they wouldn't do so, because that would increase Universal's profits on the movie. (Apologies if I've got you mixed up with someone else.) The fact that they sold them the rights to the movie in the first place shows that's wrong. So where's the problem?

I'm afraid you sound a bit too emotionally invested in the "not possible" theory. Maybe it was a defense mechanism, but in this post, it sounds more like a "they should get what they deserve for cancelling the show" vibe.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:24 AM

QBEAM


"Even if the movie is the big hit we expect, that won't be an easy sell. Network execs know that movies don't always make for sucessful series."

Oh, come on! Now I know you're rationalizing! Obviously, movies don't always translate into good TV shows, but this isn't just a movie--it's already a successful TV show! In fact, the question is whether this successful TV show can translate into a successful movie.

"Universal has to approve the series, and they will also want their cut."

Says who? Why? Why on Earth would Fox, Joss, or anyone have granted them such rights? And why would Universal want any such rights? It makes no sense to split the rights to future TV shows between two parties that way. If the movie rights alone weren't enough, then do the deal for both TV and movie rights.

I think we need some sourcing for your factual assertions, at this point.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:50 AM

QBEAM


"'The deal they have with Universal precludes another TV show - so a revival ain't gonna happen. The plan is, if the film does well enough, to have a trilogy of films.'"
- Source: www.darkhorizons.com/news04/040503c.php

So far no-one in this thread has this pointed out. Correct me if I'm wrong but to my understanding, Universal has banned Fox (or any subsequent TV rights holder) from ever exercising their right to make more TV serials while a movie deal with Universal is in place. Sorry to say, but the success of the above petition is close to impossible with this and all other existing legal and resourcing obstacles.


I've tried, and so far I can't find a second source for this quote, which was submitted by Garth Franklin to Dark Horizens. I've found this one source quoted dozens of times on the subject, but I can't find any authority to support it, and I can't find any other reporter corroborating it. I'm not saying it's not out there, but, at least so far, I haven't found it.

As I've said in other posts, this makes no sense to me, unless what Garth meant was that the deal precludes Universal (or possibly Fox) from making another TV show. I just can't think of a good business reason why such a deal would preclude anyone from making more TV shows. But I suppose it is possible--I'm no network exec. Still, if it were true, you would think that someone other than Garth would say so. Can anyone just ask Joss, strait up?

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:27 AM

DAZ


Hey Qbeam. I was about to write again that Fox had the TV rights, Universal the movie rights and that Universal is locking down Fox from reviving the TV series. And that Fox wasn't going to sell their TV rights to anyone until it expires in 10 years. Then I found this:
http://whedonesque.com/comments/6152

So the legal/contractual situation appears to be decidedly grey, not black and white as I previously thought.

Also as a bonus, you have the answer directly from Joss to the question you wanted to ask. But then again, his answer is decidedly non-committal. Still, good enough to instill hope in the TV petitioners.

But (and this is now just a personal opinion) I don't think the TV show will come back for all of the practical reasons already put forth by alot of people, authorative or otherwise.

I guess we'll see but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:40 AM

DAZ


More "might, might not" speculation. This time from a more (though not the ultimate) authorative source and Hot Off The Press:

http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&
action=page&type_id=&cat_id=270355&obj_id=49138

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:35 PM

DAZ


More befuddlement (and more than just a hint of resignation):
http://whedonesque.com/?comments=7187

Take it as you like.

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Tuesday, July 12, 2005 7:48 PM

CALHOUN


TV rights... Movie rights... legalities... pfft!

Why dont Joss and co just move to Switzerland or some other neutral country and make more Firefly TV there? It would be a bugger to watch with subtitles but hey..

Seriously though, I understand Firefly isnt very likely to have a TV revival but I have no problem in holding onto hope. Sometimes unlikely things happen.

P.S I see more and more Uber-Dweebs frequenting this site lately, whats with that?

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Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:58 AM

QBEAM


I see a number of practical problems, I agree. But nothing looks insuperable to me, and this one seems fighting for.

I was a fan of Buffy and Angel, but honestly, Firefly blew both of those away. And Firefly has far more commercial potential, because it's got a wider demographic. Battlestar Galactica is mostly going to play to men. The genuis of Buffy was that it played to both men and women, but mostly in the 15-30 age group. What prompted me to go out and buy Firefly were three separate glowing reviews, from a hard-core sci-fi fan, a 20-something single girl, and a 50+ married woman.

When I was leaving the theater after Dune, I overheard a guy telling his date, "If you liked Robin Hood, you'd like Star Wars, but you had to be a real sci-fi fan to get that [Dune]." Firefly has StarWars demographics--and much better writing.

Put that kind of money-making potential together with Joss's apparent devotion to the project, and I don't see any reason why another Firefly series is unrealistic. The most serious practical problem is keeping enough of the orginal cadre of actors involved.

I only saw Firefly on DVD, and so I was startled how many actors were recycled in other M.E. shows. After becoming a Firefly fan, I think I understand why--Joss was keeping the actors in a holding pattern, while he shopped Firefly around. I don't see those actors in a holding pattern any more, so the odds of putting all the pieces back together seem longer. But then, maybe I'm wrong; are they under a contract to make the subsequent Serenity movies? On the other hand, it wouldn't take all nine of them to keep the show going, right? Heck, Joss has quite a history of killing off major characters, anyway. I was a little startled we made it through 15 episodes without losing one. (And it looked like we might be losing Inara, at that...but I wasn't buying it... "You keep telling yourself that, Inara...")

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Saturday, July 23, 2005 12:02 PM

SCREWTHEALLIANCE


I refuse to accept this. Legal issues are tangled, it is true, but just lok at the Disney/Pixar problems that are being untangled to produce sequals to Incredibles, Toy Story, et. al. If there is cash to be made -- and as much as a DVD of Serenity will pull in, TV Box sets ala Buffy and Angel have proven far more lucrative than the a single theater released movie -- they will find a way to hack through the legal problems and make it happen. It will probably involve Fox taking a cut, or selling outright to Universal, the TV rights, but it will happen.

Especially if we plauge everyone involved. Fox, Universal, Joss, the actors, if we raise enough of a fuss, they will find the will to do it.

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Saturday, July 23, 2005 1:35 PM

FALLENANGEL


I signed it.I'm number 99 Tehehehehehe.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2005 4:37 AM

ZEYLON


Keep this BUMPED please.

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