GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Last of the Mohicans/Firefly

POSTED BY: THEPISTONENGINE
UPDATED: Friday, March 3, 2006 09:52
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Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:27 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


"Why were those people living in this defenseless place?" Cora Monroe
"The frontier is the only land available to poor people. Out here they're beholden to none, not living by another's leave." Hawkeye

Fits pretty nicely with Firefly, of course we all know the rim is the frontier and the Alliance is back east. That's not my point.

I'm just wondering how touching it would be if there was a Last of the Mudders, or Last of the Browncoats, or Last of the Something. A Last of the Mohicans story set in the 'verse. That'd be awesome.


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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:03 PM

FOLLOWMAL


I agree. And it would fit you know. Really well.

One of my favorite movies..

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:25 PM

HIXIE129


Yeh FM, That was a very good movie and I love Madalene Stowe.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:15 AM

XEROGRAVITY


That movie is my #2 most favorite movie of all time. It's sacred.

BUT... it has xero-resemblance to the original book. I've read "Last of the Mohicans" 2X and the movie is not based on the book. That text you quote isn't in the book. It comes direct from the movie. (in fact, there is no text from the book in the movie, period).

The movie was great, but it had nothing to do with the book.

Someone actually took classic literature, re-interpreted it, and improved upon it. Not to mention the soundtrack is fuckin awesome. Gawd I love celtic orchestras, Enya, and Daniel Day-Lewis with a tomahawk in his hand.

Good stuff!

XG


PS ~ you must love the movie as I do... go read the book and then watch the movie again. It'll really bake your noodle. 2 complete opposites.

Am I Tory or am I patriot?

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:20 AM

FOLLOWMAL



I read the book years ago XG when I was in jr. high. Don't even remember it. So... I'll have to pick it up again at the library and see what I think.

The movie IS sacred, I know exactly what you mean by that. And Daniel Day-Lewis does a masterful job.



" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:44 AM

THEPISTONENGINE


All I really know is I love the movie, haven't read the book. I want to get me one of them Cora Munroe's though. Smart, sexy, loyal, cool under pressure, strong willed.

Oh yeah.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:59 AM

XEROGRAVITY


You realise, of course, that you've just publicly pronounced yourself as an enemy of the crown?

Your marching orders: find all the loyalists you can, come hither to Valley Forge, and tuck away your wife and children with your relatives. The red-coats will burn you out.

The Revolution has begun. General Washington will be expecting you, musket in hand. Dress warm because the farmer's almanac predicts a long, cold winter.

XG

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Monday, February 27, 2006 7:13 AM

THEPISTONENGINE


You realise, of course, that you've just publicly pronounced yourself as an enemy of the Alliance?

Your marching orders: find all the browncoats you can, come hither to Serenity Valley, and tuck away your wife and children with your relatives. The Alliance will burn you out.

The War for Independance has begun. General (ok, you got me there) will be expecting you, assault rifle in hand. Dress warm because the farmer's almanac predicts a long, cold winter.

Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
You realise, of course, that you've just publicly pronounced yourself as an enemy of the crown?

Your marching orders: find all the loyalists you can, come hither to Valley Forge, and tuck away your wife and children with your relatives. The red-coats will burn you out.

The Revolution has begun. General Washington will be expecting you, musket in hand. Dress warm because the farmer's almanac predicts a long, cold winter.

XG


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Monday, February 27, 2006 8:14 AM

MPHILLIPS


My absolutely second favorite movie I've seen in the theater..From the music as it's own character, the stunning photography, the storyline and the actors all top notch..Untill Serenity, LOTM was the movie I'd seen the most times......

Just face north and turn left, sudden like

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:22 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


Somehow I can't believe you've seen it the second most times of any movie.
The line is "Well we kinda face to the north and real sudden like, turn left."

Quote:

Originally posted by mphillips:
My absolutely second favorite movie I've seen in the theater..From the music as it's own character, the stunning photography, the storyline and the actors all top notch..Untill Serenity, LOTM was the movie I'd seen the most times......

Just face north and turn left, sudden like


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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:36 PM

SARAHSMILE


Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
That movie is my #2 most favorite movie of all time. It's sacred.

BUT... it has xero-resemblance to the original book. I've read "Last of the Mohicans" 2X and the movie is not based on the book. That text you quote isn't in the book. It comes direct from the movie. (in fact, there is no text from the book in the movie, period).




Thank goodness for that. I was an English major in college and all around lover of literature, but I find James Fenimore Cooper a bit hard to get through. This is one of those times you have to give credit to the Hollywood version.

Saffron: He's my husband.
Mal: Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Monday, February 27, 2006 2:47 PM

XEROGRAVITY


I will actually amend what I said... don't read the book. It's terrible compared to the movie.

Honestly, it is. The two are so radically opposite in their storyline. It's an intellectual curiosity more than anything else. James Fenimore Cooper was trying to write a novel that would play well on both sides of the pond (Atlantic ocean). The Brits were still pissed about the revolutionary war and the Americans were still clueless rustics (I think we still are, but who knows?).

If you do wanna read the book, then read all 4 of them (the "leatherstocking" books). There's magic in the movie that you'll lose if you read the books (the movie is infinitely better).

If you only want to read one book to get a taste of it, read "The Deerslayer". That's the best one (IMHO).

But I haven't read them in eons (with the exception of LOTM ~ which I read a 2nd time after the movie cuz I couldn't remember the books being as fookin amazing as the movie was).

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:23 PM

XEROGRAVITY


My dear,

You realise there is an 11 second difference between the time you and I both posted our most recent messages.

How strange it is that I already answered your post with my generalization.

XG


11 seconds can be such a curiously long period of time.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:32 PM

SHO


Quote:

Originally posted by ThePistonEngine:
Somehow I can't believe you've seen it the second most times of any movie.
The line is "Well we kinda face to the north and real sudden like, turn left."

Quote:

Originally posted by mphillips:
My absolutely second favorite movie I've seen in the theater..From the music as it's own character, the stunning photography, the storyline and the actors all top notch..Untill Serenity, LOTM was the movie I'd seen the most times......

Just face north and turn left, sudden like




One of my favorite all time movies, as well. I have seen it many more times than Serenity, though, because I am a recent addict and there aren't enough hours in the day.

Oh, I believe the movie line ends: "...real subtle like, turn left", btw.

"We've done the impossible. That makes us mighty"

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:36 PM

SARAHSMILE


Xerogravity: Strange how the time works!

I merely thought it would be polite (before the uninitiated run out to the library) to point out the gulf between the book and movie. No issues with Cooper - he was writing for an audience that had far different sensibilities than our modern one. If you loved the movie, I fear most readers would be a trifle let down by the book!

Saffron: He's my husband.
Mal: Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:46 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


I watched the scene a couple more times. You're right, it is "subtle." Had to listen for it before I heard it.

Quote:

Originally posted by sho:
Quote:

Originally posted by ThePistonEngine:
Somehow I can't believe you've seen it the second most times of any movie.
The line is "Well we kinda face to the north and real sudden like, turn left."

Quote:

Originally posted by mphillips:
My absolutely second favorite movie I've seen in the theater..From the music as it's own character, the stunning photography, the storyline and the actors all top notch..Untill Serenity, LOTM was the movie I'd seen the most times......

Just face north and turn left, sudden like




One of my favorite all time movies, as well. I have seen it many more times than Serenity, though, because I am a recent addict and there aren't enough hours in the day.

Oh, I believe the movie line ends: "...real subtle like, turn left", btw.

"We've done the impossible. That makes us mighty"


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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:01 PM

XEROGRAVITY


No no. I'm not making any accusations in pointing that out. Just pondering the curious marvels of fate.

The odd timing almost makes me want to rethink my atheism. Shit like this keeps happening on a regular basis. The universe is either very quirky or I'm cursed to have to ponder the mathematical improbabilities of my daily life.

XG

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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:07 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


Maybe. Or maybe there are simply so many different ways coincidences like that can happen, they actually occur on a frequent basis.

Quote:

Originally posted by XeroGravity:
No no. I'm not making any accusations in pointing that out. Just pondering the curious marvels of fate.

The odd timing almost makes me want to rethink my atheism. Shit like this keeps happening on a regular basis. The universe is either very quirky or I'm cursed to have to ponder the mathematical improbabilities of my daily life.

XG


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Monday, February 27, 2006 4:19 PM

K4S4EVA


I could really see mal looking at inara and her saying what are u looking at?
MAL: why i'm looking at you

Simon: Can you move your feet? Kaylee. Stay with me. Can you move your feet?
Kaylee: Are you asking me to dance...?

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:10 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Michael Mann's "Natty Long-rifle" from the book's is equal to the original conception of the character in Cooper's books... a hunter, a trapper, a frontiersman "Mann's man" ~ every inch of him is manlike. There ain't no touchy-feely "I just wanna hug you and have deep coversations" here. Just "I'm trying to live free... keep clear of my rifle and don't make war with me".

In the books, Hawkeye was a close friend to Chingatchgook, not an "adopted son". That Mann could even be "allowed" to make this film is a fucking miracle. But he did, and so it is that people like me have something that entertains them. This definately wasn't "Dances With Wolves", yet against all odds it was "allowed" to be made.

I went to see this film expecting it to be average. I was blown away, and kept coming back for encores of it. It never gets old, it just gets better with each viewing. It's one of the best films I've ever seen, period.

Critics hate it, which is all the more reason for me to love it. But (as much as I hate critics) I didn't need critical hatred to know I loved it... I went back to see it again and again at the theatre. Got the DVD, the soundtrack, the whole 9 yards.

It's epic.

I haven't been so in love with a film since "Star Wars", "Raiders...", or "Conan" (the original)...



This ain't the book. This is pure fuckin magic.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "New World" that was just needs conquering.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 5:49 AM

WEICHI


I like the initial post here, the line about the frontier does summons up the firefly verse.

As the only actual James Fenimore Cooper fan to post to this thread so far, a few random remarks and corrections.

First of all, yes, movie totally different from the book. No love interest between Hawkeye and Cora, rather some interesting simmering between her and Uncas. But the book plot would totally not play today, the heroes do not end up together it just does not work in Hollywood.

Second - there are 5 Leatherstocking Tales, not 4. In chronological order of story, the life of Nathanial Bumppo is told in The Deerslayer, The Last of the Mohicans, The Pathfinder, The Pioneers and The Prarie. This is not the order they were written, however.

The Deerslayer is hilariously and brutally poked fun at in an essay by Mark Twain for its heavy prose, and most folks who do not like Cooper share Twain's opinion.

As a history buff, I love the stories, and what they say about America, both in the time of the tales, and the times they were written.

But I loved the movie, changes and all.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:20 PM

XEROGRAVITY


Weichi:

That's a way-too-bold statement to be making ("the only actual JFC fan to post so far...").

I admit I didn't know there were 5 books. I've always assumed 4 because that's all I read when I was a kid.

I've read his naval books (and enjoyed them, more then I did the leatherstocking books). Have you? Of course you have... you're the only one posting in this thread who is a "real" JFC fan. Would you care to debate me on them and be annihilated since you are so infinitely superior as only one true fan?

Please dude I'm fuckin dying to hear you support this argument that you are his only 'one true fan'. Tell us fake fans the real deal.

My all-time favorite naval books are the whole Horatio Hornblower series (please nobody start in on me about the gay-ass name, I know I know).

Best damned novels ever pertaining to life in the navy (any navy).

Single best novel about solo-sailing...

Joshua Slocum's "Sailing Alone Around the World". I built a boat and named it "The Spray"... not up to his specs (significantly worse to be quite honest)... but then it wasn't built to sail the circumference of the globe. I still put tacks on my deck when I'm in the savage ports of NY and Boston (can never be too cautious).

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:34 PM

XEROGRAVITY


and X-tra PS:

to anyone and everyone... check out the Horatio Hornblower flicks (I think it's a BBC thing)... holy fuck what a great series of flicks those are!!

Ioa-aeiou-ioan Gruffa-whats-his-name is a superb, outstanding actor. This guy is like super-duper star potential.

XG

]

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.[/b

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Wednesday, March 1, 2006 3:38 PM

XEROGRAVITY


How in the hell did that "]" end up way over there?

This is a conspiracy!

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Thursday, March 2, 2006 5:15 AM

WEICHI


Sorry to have offended.

By my reading, no one had actually expressed "fandom" for JFC before I posted.

Forgive me for not recognizing that being only one off on the number of Leatherstocking Tales still makes you a fan. In fact, that you knew the term "Leatherstocking" certainly puts you ahead of the curve. I did not read your post to endorse the books. It simply presented some slightly inaccurate info. Most of the posts either criticised the books, or simply praised the movies. Perhaps I am not clever enough to read your comment "dont read the book. Its terrible compared to the movie" and immediately recognize a kindred spirit in Cooper fandom.

Although I have a complete set of Coopers Novels, I am not going to claim to have read them all - I have read one of his sea novels - "The Sea Lions" )and it was very good. I have also read "Satanstoe" and the other "Littlepage Manuscripts" That series was nice, but seemed to repeat alot of the themes as Leatherstocking, with less compelling characters.

I am not going to debate you. I was not trying to attack you. I was agreeing that the movie was very different from the book, and trying to emphasize, that even as a fan of the books, I can still apreciate a great movie, even if it changes, drastically, a story I hold dear.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Friday, March 3, 2006 9:52 AM

XEROGRAVITY


Weichi:

No sir. I don't accept your apology. None should have been given. But I honor you for offering it up.

No apology was required. I'm the one who should apologize. My mind is a little pre-occupied with a bit of siege mentality. I over-reacted, and was the offender. For that, I'm sorry.

My apologies, and my compliments.

XG


No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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