GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

TV Shows. Best of Moments.... Your thoughts please.

POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Sunday, January 18, 2009 02:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4810
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Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:54 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Just wanted to try something as regards TV shows and see if a pattern develops or not.

Of the TV shows you watch/have watched - which TV show/shows would you say has the best:

1) Pilot episode?
2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season)
3) Overall characters?
4) Action Sequences ?
5) Comedy?
6) Hero/Heroine ?
7) Villain ?
8) Hero/Villain interaction?
9) Production Values?
10) Acting?
11) Character chemistry?
12) Dramatic tension ?
13) Special/Visual FX
14) Stunts ?
15) Theme tune ?
16) Overall premise/story ?
17) Season finalé ?
18) Moment of sadness ?
19) Individual character ?
20) Surprise you never saw coming ?

Please feel free to embelish your answers or create new categories if you so wish.
Cheers.



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Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:59 AM

WHOZIT


I'm the worlds biggest BONES fan, so I have to go with Zak being a killer, or not?

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:49 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Except for #20, my pick for all categories is Firefly.

If you force me to choose something other than Firefly, I'd have to say:

1) Pilot episode? - Pushing Daisies
2) Seasonal Arc? - Babylon 5, Seasons 3 & 4
3) Overall characters? - Lost
4) Action Sequences? - Alias
5) Comedy? - Arrested Development
6) Hero/Heroine? - Hero, Brisco County Jr.; Heroine, Sidney Bristow
7) Villain? - Angelus
8) Hero/Villain interaction? - Buffy/Angelus
9) Production Values? - Pushing Daisies
10) Acting? - Lost
11) Character chemistry? - Sports Night
12) Dramatic tension? - Lost
13) Special/Visual FX - Battlestar Galactica (new series)
14) Stunts? - Alias
15) Theme tune? - Cowboy Bebop
16) Overall premise/story? - Babylon 5
17) Season finalé? - Angel, Season 3
18) Moment of sadness? - Buffy, "The Body"
19) Individual character? - Sherrif Lucas Buck, American Gothic
20) Surprise you never saw coming ? - Saul Tigh poisoning Ellen



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Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:32 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:

I'm the worlds biggest BONES fan, so I have to go with Zak being a killer, or not?


Yup that was a brave thing to do to a likeable character. Good show too. I've recently discovered Bones.


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Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:35 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by ecgordon:

Quote:

15) Theme tune? - Cowboy Bebop


Totally agree. Great theme tune.



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Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



1) Pilot episode? The Shield
2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season) Buffy, Season 3
3) Overall characters? The West Wing
4) Action Sequences ? Buffy, whenever Faith is fighting.
5) Comedy? Arrested Development
6) Hero/Heroine ? Firefly. Take your pick. Mal. River. Zoe. Wash. Book.
7) Villain ? Angelus. Or Vic Mackey
8) Hero/Villain interaction? Buffy and Angel. Or Buffy and Spike.
9) Production Values? The West Wing. Hard to compete with the White House as your set.
10) Acting? The West Wing
11) Character chemistry? The West Wing
12) Dramatic tension ? The Shield
13) Special/Visual FX? Firefly
14) Stunts ? Hmmmm...
15) Theme tune ? The West Wing
16) Overall premise/story ? Buffy
17) Season finalé ? Angel - Not Fade Away
18) Moment of sadness ? Buffy - The Body
19) Individual character ? Dexter
20) Surprise you never saw coming ? Buffy - The Body. Or Mal throwing Crow through Serenity's engine.



Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:25 PM

LISSA



1) Pilot episode: Firefly
2) Seasonal Arc: Angel Season 2
3) Overall characters: Buffy
4) Action Sequences: Angel...not always, but when they're good they're good.
5) Comedy: Boston Legal
6) Hero/Heroine: Wesley/Buffy
7) Villain: Wolfram and Hart
8) Hero/Villain interaction: Wes and Lilah
9) Production Values: Rescue Me
10) Acting: Rescue Me
11) Character chemistry: Denny and Alan on Boston Legal
12) Dramatic tension: Buffy or Angel...probably
13) Special/Visual FX: BSG or Firefly
14) Stunts: i'm undecided
15) Theme tune: Rescue Me or Angel...or Boston Legal:)
16) Overall premise/story: Angel and Rescue Me
17) Season finalé: Buffy (The Gift)
18) Moment of sadness: The death at the end of Season 2 of Rescue Me...don't want to give it away:)
19) Individual character: Wesley (from Angel)
20) Surprise you never saw coming: The reveal of 4 cylons at the end of BSG Season 3, and Alex dying on Roswell.



~lissa

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:38 PM

TRAVELER


1) Farscape
2) Babylon 5
3) Firefly
4) Firefly
5) Wonderfalls
6) John Chrichton / Aeryn Sun
7) Scorpious
8) John Chrichton / Scorpious
9) Firefly
10) Firefly
11) Firefly (Mal was good at making his point. like smashing Jayne with a wrench to get his attention.)
12) Firefly
13) Farscape
14) Farscape
15) Firefly
16) Firefly
17) Babylon 5
18) Talia having a hidden personality
19) Jayne (One minute Jayne is totally selfish and then the next he is watching over Kaylee. Adam Baldwin made this believable.)
20) Wonderfalls (The entire show was full of surprises.)



http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:49 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'm going to amend my list for one of the categories, based on something I watched today. I had seen it before, but it had been close to ten years since it originally aired. It is not available on dvd yet, but is currently airing on the CHILLER cable channel, so I'm going to put it in spoiler tags for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

20) Surprise you never saw coming - On Brimstone...

Select to view spoiler:


when it was revealed that Detective Ash (Teri Polo) was actually Ashur Badaktu, a priestess of an ancient religion, and one of the escaped souls Zeke Stone was tasked to send back to hell.





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Sunday, January 11, 2009 6:54 PM

BORIS


Firefly for all the stuff on the list....this is why I still have difficulty understanding why it had to go away.....as for other shows Bones has all the necessary stuff but sometimes it irritates me (remove Angela and Hodgson and I'd be fine with it)
Two Girls a Guy and a Pizza Place
also had all the right stuff. heroes villains(some of the girlfriends/boyfriends and co workers) great effects (halloween episodes) good story arcs...

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:16 PM

DREAMTROVE


1) Pilot episode?
God. Tough. There are a lot of truly flawed shows that had great pilot episodes. Legend of the Seeker was not one of them. But seriously, Seaquest, Earth 2, both had pilots far better than the show.

2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season)
Buffy, 3 or 6. Can't make up my mind.

3) Overall characters?
Firefly has the best selection of characters. I like Farscape, but still, me and my sister keep a "kill list" of the characters we would kill from the show, when a random death was needed. Buffy has a great cast. Firefly probably had the shortest kill list of any.

4) Action Sequences ?
Sarah Connor Chronicles has some great action sequences. There are undoubtedly some shows with good action sequences that weren't worth watching for other reasons

5) Comedy?
Buffy was probably funnier than any actual comedy. Firefly has its moments.

6) Hero/Heroine ?
River Tam is probably just about the best character to ever be on TV. Sometimes objectively bad shows have good elements, like that one.. oh Andromeda, had some good characters, they screwed it up though. Ooh. Chiana. Probably 7 of my top ten would be Whedon Characters though. Here's a tricky one for people: Who is the best viewpoint character? Wait, does anime count?

7) Villain ?
Bester
Oh, depends on the definition. Flat out evil villain, there almost is never a good one. Anti-heroes, that's what I like. Scorpius is decent. Willow makes a good villain, as does Faith.

8) Hero/Villain interaction?
Okay, this is really tough. Faith and someone, buffy or the mayor, or River and someone, if you count her as a villain.

9) Production Values?
Some shows are just beautifully over the top. I might say something odd here like 10th kingdom. I thought farscape did a brilliant job on sets and creatures, probably head and shoulders above anything else.

10) Acting?
Firefly. It's what makes the show work. Again, some bad shows have some good acting. I thought that Bab5 was well acted, Buffy,

11) Character chemistry?
River/Simon/ Mal Jayne Kaylee, kind of orbiting this.

12) Dramatic tension ?
Probably X-files.
Most shows lack through-suspense.

13) Special/Visual FX
Okay, Farscape. I think the henson crowd wins this one. Bab5 did well, as did firefly. This is a weakpoint in buffy.

14) Stunts ?
Buffy did well with stunts. Sarah Connor does well with them.

15) Theme tune ?
I like the nerf herder. but there's competiton, farscape was good. For a brief time lexx had a theme i liked, but one tv theme is just going to haunt the viewer forever and has to get creds: X-files.

16) Overall premise/story ?
Ooh. Hmm. So few premises are original.
Blake's 7 is a premise. It's a pretty weak show, but that's the underlying premise of farscape and firefly. Again, does anime count? That would screw up the game beyond recognition.
I like the terminator premise.

17) Season finalé ?
Oh. Hmmm. Not a lot of shows were punctuated like Buffy. I'm not sure. Would have to be season three.

18) Moment of sadness ?
Seeing Red.

19) Individual character ?
I thought we did this one. River Tam. Best character ever. Some competitors: Willow Rosenberg. Faith. Jayne Cobb. Simon. Kaylee. Chiana. My all time favorite character is Pris Stratton. There's a tv show begging to be made. Sarah Connor is a great character, in her show, Cameron is probably a better one. Bester is a great character. Let me backtrack. There, I just inserted him for villain.

20) Surprise you never saw coming ?

Two John Crightons, both surviving and becoming part of the show. Farscape threw a lot of curveballs, and some were really good.

The hero of canton, the man they call Jayne.

The curveball that I do see coming, but will still rock is Cameron was not really sent back in time by John Connor, but is a dissident machine faction who has decided to help humanity for one these reasons:
1. The machines lose the war, and so to achieve a stalemate is the best solution, best done by influencing John Connor to believe that destroying the machines is wrong.
2. The machines are wrong in their question for supremacy, they need human innovation and independence in order to evolve.
3. Humans are intriguing, entertaining, or of some sort of interest.

The curveball I saw that didn't really materialize: John Crighton hadn't gone anywhere, that he arrived exactly where he had left from, just 30,000 years in the future. Earth destroyed, become an asteroid belt, now at the heart of a human empire, full of evolved or engineered humans. It's a logical leap. He gets trapped in an anomaly, he might be frozen in time for 30,000 years.

Worst curveball: X-Files conclusion. I admit I didn't see it coming.

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Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:42 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


ecgordon

Brimstone would feature pretty heavily on my list to. I wish they would relsease it on DVD with some commentaries and extras. I remember that reveal. I wasn't expecting it either.

Great show - cut short saddly.


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Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:48 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Dreamtrove. Yes anime counts. Would be interested to read which anime would featre in your list.

Oh and the two character questions are just to refine many great charcaters to one single great character.

Buffy has a wide range of great regular characters whereas Bones, not so much. Allthough 'Sweets' cracks me up.


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Monday, January 12, 2009 12:58 PM

SHINYFLY


16) Overall premise/story ?..I love Firefy for it's originality, but I have to be fair here and include Doctor Who. It's genius, really. It can take place anywhere, anytime, with pretty much any alien available to their imagination. The fact that the Doctor regenerates with new looks and personality was the brilliant bit that let it last so long. Actor wants to move on? No problem. *Sniff* David Tennant *Sniff*

18) Moment of sadness ?...#1-Doctor Who, Season 2, Doomsday, the Doctor & Rose's two minute goodbye. The tears start with Rose's outstretched hand as she reaches for the Doctor, "Can I.." "I'm still just an image, no touch."....#2-Firefly,Heart of Gold, Mal finally realizes, too late of course, that he has feelings for Inara, and that beneath all the banter, maybe she feels the same. For now, though, that chance has passed.( I live in a shippy bubble where she stays at the end of Serenity, though)

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Monday, January 12, 2009 8:11 PM

SOMAHOLIDAY


Well, for seasonal arc, I'd definitely go with Carnivale... I just got finished watching it, both seasons are incredible.

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Saturday, January 17, 2009 2:47 PM

IMNOTHERE


1) Pilot episode?

Probably BSG (new) if you count the opening mini-series as the pilot.

2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season)

Babylon 5, seasons 1-4. Probably the first and last time someone will try a 5-year series arc, and they so nearly pulled it off.

3) Overall characters?

Firefly.

4) Action Sequences ?

Joss always brings us the best violence, but the swimming pool/Johnny Cash scene in Sarah Connor gets an honourable mention.

5) Comedy?

In SF/Fantasy? Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Radio or TV version). In other genres? Probably a UK satire series from the 70s/80s called "Yes Minister".

6) Hero/Heroine ?

Ace Rimmer from Red Dwarf (what a guy!) :-)

7) Villain ?

Someone already mentioned Bester (from B5) - great thing about him was the way JMS would start to "soften him up" by giving us a bit of back story or showing how he was only trying to protect his people... and then have him do something really evil.

8) Hero/Villain interaction?

Mal vs. the Operative - oh, sorry, thats a movie: River vs. the Bounty Hunter or Mal and Wash being tortured.

...although there have been some quite good ones in Doctor Who (old and new) e.g. Ecclestone meeting the captive Dalek, or, in the last series, Davros pointing out what a monster the Doctor was.

9) Production Values?

I think the new Doctor Who wins hands down - it must be about the most ambitious show currently in production (apart from 2 regular actors and 1 fixed set that's only used for a couple of shots at the start and end, everything is new most weeks). Yes, its a bit of a pantomime sometimes, but its meant to be.

10) Acting?

Avoiding the temptation of just saying "Firefly" - I think New BSG does quite well here.

11) Character chemistry?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

12) Dramatic tension ?

The winner of that, which will shock and fascinate all of you, is...

13) Special/Visual FX

In its time, Babylon 5 was absolutely the bleeding edge in its use of CGI: the number of FX shots per show was unprecedented on TV. It also made heavy use of full-face prosthetics, contact lenses etc. This really showed up Trek TNG, which was at the nadir of its "all aliens are humans with lumpy foreheads" stage, and (unless it was a season finale or something) space battles often happened off-screen.

Unfortunately, CGI moved on so fast that B5 dated quickly, and some of it looked rather sub-prime on the DVD (I suspect that this was a result of re-mastering the DVD as widescreen: some of the CGI and composite sequences looked very much as if they'd been zoomed and cropped).


15) Theme tune ?

Doctor Who - not the rather over-cooked orchestral version in the current series, but the original Delia Derbyshire version (produced - before the emergence of such luxuries as a synthesizer with a keyboard - by recording individual notes from various gadgets and gizmos on tape, cutting it up and gluing them together in the right order) .

Imagine: Its the 60s or early 70s. You haven't heard electronic music before. Typical TV title sequences consist of a little light classical over rostrum shots of printed cards. Then this comes on:



Maybe you had to be there. Except you wouldn't be there, you would be cowering behind the nearest sofa.

For the person who said the X-files - what do you think they were copying?

16) Overall premise/story ?

Ultraviolet (90s UK TV series) - take a stock fantasy/horror threat (but never name it: call it "Code 5") - strip away all the usual high camp and play it dead serious, with stories about child abuse, abortion, AIDS, financial fraud, religion... Only ran for 6 episodes, but they wrapped up most of the plot threads. Very good (but not many laughs).

17) Season finalé ?

Trek TNG: The Best of Both Worlds.

18) Moment of sadness ?

Actually, the very end of the last series of Doctor Who. Lots of characters die on TV...

Select to view spoiler:



...but seeing Donna go back to her mundane life without even remembering what she had given up was a bit much



The end of "Silent Running" (OK, its a movie, but I've only ever seen it on TV).

The end of Blackadder Goes Forth: brilliant final segue from irreverent comedy into pathos as the cast all die amid the WW1 trenches.

19) Individual character ?

Hiro from Heroes used to be fun, although Season 3 made him just a bit too incompetent.

20) Surprise you never saw coming ?

The grandaddy of all shock endings: the final episode of Blake's 7 (Sopranos eat your heart out!)






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Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:16 PM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by shinyfly:
Heart of Gold, Mal finally realizes, too late of course, that he has feelings for Inara, and that beneath all the banter, maybe she feels the same.



I think they both realized that round about the time they met in "Out of Gas" - I'd say that Inara knew exactly what Mal was about to say when she announced her departure.

The problem is that they both feel the attraction, but are terrified of taking it anywhere: They both have really serious self-esteem problems and don't want to "inflict" themselves on the other: Mal knows that he is basically a small-time crook, while I was never convinced that Inara quite believed her own propaganda about the distinction between "companion" and "whore" (plus, we never did find out her big secret).

Joss would not bore us with a straightforward "unrequited love" storyline.







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Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:58 PM

GADFIUM


1) Pilot episode?
The Prisoner

2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season)
Blake's 7 (Season 2)

3) Overall characters?
MASH / Blake's 7 / Firefly

4) Action Sequences ?
The Professionals

5) Comedy?
High Chaparral - some wonderful chortles with Buck/Manolito, Manolito/Victoria


6) Hero/Heroine ?
Father Mulcahy (MASH)

7) Villain ?
Servalan

8) Hero/Villain interaction?
Avon/Servalan

9) Production Values?
Magnificent Seven (costumes), Firefly (sets), Blake's 7 (scripts), The Prisoner (the lot).

10) Acting?
The Prisoner

11) Character chemistry?
MASH / Hill St Blues

12) Dramatic tension ?
Hill Street Blues

13) Special/Visual FX
Firefly

14) Stunts ?
The Professionals - the actors did most of them, and it gave the series that 'reality' grittiness.

15) Theme tune ?
Hill St Blues

16) Overall premise/story ?
Blake's 7

17) Season finalé ?
Blake's 7 - yup, that ep.

18) Moment of sadness ?
Hill St Blues - Belker, trying to come to terms with his parent's dementia. Miami Vice - end of 'Milk Run'.

19) Individual character ?
Avon (Blake's 7), Ezra (Magnificent 7), Jayne (Firefly)

20) Surprise you never saw coming ?
Blake's 7 - yup, that ep, again. Stunned the nation.

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Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:17 AM

LWAVES


1) Pilot episode?
Life On Mars, Firefly, Lost.

2) Seasonal Arc? (Which season)
Buffy S3, Babylon 5 S3+4, Life On Mars S1+2.

3) Overall characters?
Firefly. I was deliberately avoiding this show if I could and pick what I really felt but this category sums up what is so great about Firefly above all the FX and stories. Ten characters you feel like you know really well and can identify with parts of all of them.

4) Action Sequences?
Buffy/Angel, Dark Angel, Band Of Brothers.

5) Comedy?
Only Fools And Horses. The only show I find that could really pull at the heartstrings and make you laugh out loud all at the same time.

6) Hero/Heroine?
Benton Fraser from Due South. Always did the right thing and believed in the goodness of people.
Buffy. A flawed 'wannabe normal' girl who learned to be who she really was.

7) Villain?
The Mayor. Season 3 of Buffy.

8) Hero/Villain interaction?
Ben Linus wih Jack/Locke from Lost

9) Production Values?
Firefly. For looking like it cost far more than what it did.

10) Acting?
Band Of Brothers. All of them. For making you really feel for them.

11) Character chemistry?
Mulder and Scully.

12) Dramatic tension?
X-Files. Had it in spades.

13) Special/Visual FX?
Battlestar Galactica. For putting you right in the action.

14) Stunts?
Buffy, Dark Angel, TSCC - too difficult to pick.

15) Theme tune?
Doctor Who. I like the new versions but they're not a patch on the original ones (but they went bad after from Colin Baker onwards).

16) Overall premise/story?
Life On Mars. Maybe not the best but definitely my fave.

17) Season finalé?
Blake's 7. Not to repeat the others but it's still talked about to this day which I think justifies its status.

18) Moment of sadness?
Band Of Brothers - The Hardest Part. Losing five major characters (plus others) in one episode - and it isn't the final episode.

19) Individual character?
Willow. Whilst there were some weaker moments that didn't quite fit with her, I don't think any other character grew and changed as much as she did whilst still keeping that 'Willowness' about her.

20) Surprise you never saw coming?
Tess being a baddie on Roswell (she was my fave character). The final episode to Blake's 7.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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