GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Ok how about some negativity.....Yes towards Firefly!!!!

POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Friday, April 23, 2010 15:56
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Monday, April 12, 2010 9:57 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Well I was wondering....

Are there things that bother you about Firefly? The amount of killing without remorse perhaps? Zoe refering to the captain as 'Sir' even though the war has long since ended and she now has a husband. Inara parading around in those fancy dresses all the time? I mean sometimes they are weeks away from a planet... Can she not just chill in some tracksuit bottoms or something? How about a no make up day!? And Kaylee.. Always expecting Simon to moon over her and when he doesn't she gets narky!

... and the like.

Anyone have anything to add?



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Monday, April 12, 2010 10:13 AM

MINCINGBEAST


negativity is my specialty, and there is nothing that occasions more negativity than the things that i actually enjoy. your list is a fine start, but i would add:

1. everything about kaylee

2. the browncoats putative identification with the confederates.

3. wash's "zany" sense of humor

4. book's statement equating child molesters with people who talk during theatre.

5. Inara and her tea

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Monday, April 12, 2010 10:39 AM

BYTEMITE


I think Book's joke was more of a murder arson and jaywalking joke that it was saying child molestation is a frivolous offense.

My issue: No showers, and they still look the way they do. Even Jayne, though at least they complain about how he smells.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 10:56 AM

ZEEK


None of the ones listed so far bother me.

The things that top my list are:
I can't remember where it's from, but they talk about "capitol city". Come on is this the simpsons or something? Create a real name for the city.

Bushwhacked has a number of issues. The guy who sees reavers and then tries to become like them just seems like a bad plot device. I can only hope that Mal's reasoning wasn't the real reason he turned. Maybe he got infected with whatever the original cause of the reavers was going to be. Then there's the whole "he'll look for familiar ground to start hunting. How would he find that exactly? He was knocked out most of the time he was moved around. Then there's the whole "oh you saved my life. You're free to go". Not buying it. A real alliance captain would find a way to rationalize being a stickler about the rules IMO.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:02 AM

AGENTROUKA


Whee!

3 things that might have potentially been redeemed in later episodes by leading to actual consequences:

- the way Zoe tends to dismiss Wash's concerns

- Mal's wonky logic about respecting Inara

- Kaylee's occasional blindness to Simon's situation (Romancing her - not his priority!)

Things that are irrevocable annoying to me:

- Yes, the gratuitous, glorified violence

- Alliance people are all bad and incompetent, Mal knows everything better. *yawn*

- Inara's silly outfit during the Reaver fight. Come on, that was gratuitous. And btw, a BOW??

- River in the movie. They mostly removed her personality and replaced it with fetish fuel.




Actually, this makes me want to list all the small details I love about the show.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:05 AM

BYTEMITE


Fanwank ahoy!

Bushwhacked was more intended to be a space horror than anything specific or explainable, much like the Reavers themselves. Reavers are boogie-men, and Mal's description of looking into the darkness and going mad is very lovecraftian.

Also suspiciously informed, based on what happens in the episode. So I like to think Reaverism is caused by two main factors.

First, exposure to PAX, which the Reaver ships might be carrying on their air processors. Assuming that the chemical doesn't decay, they might be continually exposed to it, and so would any of the victims they take back to their ship... And any of the ships that they docked with.

Second. Post traumatic stress disorder has been actually shown to permanently change brain chemistry and structure. It causes the brain to produce too much adrenaline and engages the HPA axis constantly, which governs aggression. So you have a traumatic experience, your brain changes.

Trauma + Pax = well, you know the rest.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:09 AM

BYTEMITE


But, AR, Inara had her most sensitive and most important vital assets covered! Everyone knows according to movies, tv and comic books that if a woman armors her breasts and crotch and leaves everything else exposed, nothing can hit her!

Look at Kaylee, she dressed normally, and got hit by a dart, and Zoe got slashed down the back. Only River got away with dressing fairly normally, but then she's a loveable (and interesting) Mary Sue.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:13 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
But, AR, Inara had her most sensitive and most important vital assets covered! Everyone knows according to movies, tv and comic books that if a woman armors her breasts and crotch and leaves everything else exposed, nothing can hit her!

Look at Kaylee, she dressed normally, and got hit by a dart, and Zoe got slashed down the back. Only River got away with dressing fairly normally, but then she's a loveable (and interesting) Mary Sue.



agreed! it is well established that the only thing on a woman worth protecting are her, you know, breast and crotch area. to armor anything else would be superfluous.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:16 AM

AGENTROUKA


Byte, your logic is difficult to counter, especially since you prove it with statistics!

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:29 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

But then, it's justified, because...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShowSomeLeg

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DistractedByTheSexy



But Reavers aren't that shallow! They'll want to consume your innards, wear your skin and do unspeakable things to your carcass no matter how you are dressed! It's your inner (nutritional) value they care about!

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:29 AM

PENGUIN


Mal should have closed Tracey's eyes...





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:43 AM

BYTEMITE


We have data to indicate that the more enticingly a woman is dressed, the less likely she is to be hurt by monsters (River - fetish fuel in a billowy sundress). Paradoxically, through other examples, she is MORE likely to be abducted and secreted away by the monster to their castle/tree-top home, and develop Stockholm Syndrome.

But for this, we only have a sample size of four.

I propose we do science! Let us unleash a murder of Reavers on women dressed normally, and women dressed enticingly. I'm not sure what to watch for, but I'm sure if we record the proceedings we'd have a blockbuster hit on our hands.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 11:58 AM

MINCINGBEAST


as a control group, women who are not dressed at all must be introduced into the study.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:10 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
None of the ones listed so far bother me.

The things that top my list are:
I can't remember where it's from, but they talk about "capitol city". Come on is this the simpsons or something? Create a real name for the city.



Well good point but in Joss' defence lame names occur in real life. Look at New Foundland. How lame is that!!?

"Look land!"
"Really? What kind?"
"Well it's new"
"Ok..."
"..and we found it.."
"So what's it gona be?"
".... Er New found land...?"
"Perfect! We'll go with that!"

Lacking in immagination somewhat don't ya think?


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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:10 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Balls! Double post!!!

*whistle it off and no one will notice....*

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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:20 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Hey AgentRouka - Long time no see.

Quote:

- Mal's wonky logic about respecting Inara


Seconded!

Quote:

- Alliance people are all bad and incompetent, Mal knows everything better. *yawn*


Thirded! (made up word)

Quote:

And btw, a BOW??


Hmmm - why does this bother so many ?

Quote:

Actually, this makes me want to list all the small details I love about the show.


I think for the sake of universal balance and equilibrium you should do just that. Let's have a list of things you love about Firefly.

Quote:

Whee!

Could be that it's late but this made me laugh and snort tea out of my nose!


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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:23 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

as a control group, women who are not dressed at all must be introduced into the study.


Good idea. The more X-rated we can get, the better.

And for kicks and giggles, let's give one of the girls a bow.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:24 PM

BYTEMITE


And with that, AR, I give you the rationale for Inara's outfit during the Reaver fight sequence.

Everything else was cut from the final edit of the movie.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:29 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by Bytemite:

Quote:

Fanwank ahoy!

Funny!

Quote:

Trauma + Pax = well, you know the rest.
but what of the ones who didn't endure any trauma - as on Miranda? Are they half a reaver?


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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:33 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

And with that, AR, I give you the rationale for Inara's outfit during the Reaver fight sequence.

Everything else was cut from the final edit of the movie.



I thought it was only Inara's arms and shoulders that were exposed. Didn't she have a long flowing dress or somesuch. Hardly exposure?


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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:34 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by Penguin:
Quote:

Mal should have closed Tracey's eyes...


nice.


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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:51 PM

BYTEMITE


No no, think about it. You're on Miranda. Kids go first, they're littler so they'll have a higher concentration of the kill dose of the Pax in them. You loose your children, start stressing out. The trauma changes your brain chemistry and makes you immune to the pacification effects, it goes the other way instead. Pretty soon everyone around you who wasn't personally affected by the initial wave of tragedy is dying also, you see your entire world die, horrifically and inexplicably, and you don't know why you're still alive or when you're going to go also, and you snap, and whammo, Reaver-time. Constantly escalating adrenaline feedback loop. Plus Pax.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:52 PM

NCBROWNCOAT


Mal's tight pants. Unless there was quite a bit of spandex in them, they would split every time he bent over. Heard that actually happened during the filming of the pilot.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/








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Monday, April 12, 2010 12:55 PM

BYTEMITE


She stole it from one of the other girls after they fell, thinking she would be more protected. Fortunately for her, she was kneeling behind some cover and the Reavers could only see her upper half, not her well-covered rage inducing lower half.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 1:48 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Some of mine:

1. Those small, golf cart-like futuristic cars.

2. "Heart of Gold" - just throw the whole ep into the nearest black hole.

3. The general store guy in "Safe" should have said something.

4. That scoop-less Bobcat in "Jaynestown". How's it supposed to do ANYTHING?

5. The sword fight in "Shindig" was kinda lame. Maybe in the future even sword experts aren't that good.

6. The new Mule. Is that whole front end thing *really* necessary? Seems like a waste of space. I'm still not sure where they stored the "payload". Those rear hatches weren't very big.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Monday, April 12, 2010 1:54 PM

BYTEMITE


As I recall, the back seat is elevated compared to the front seat, which probably means there's some room between the lower chassis and hover-inducing parts and the chairs. Smuggling compartments!

Good points. Though Heart of Gold is a kinda nice one for Inara development. Even if the villain is over done and the aesop is anvilicious.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 2:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Mine's more of a problem w/ the way a scene was shot, and less so with how the characters acted.

The chase scene in Heart of Gold bugged me to no end. Where Mal takes a horse and 'rides down' Rance, who is driving a hover craft..... while I did chuckle at the 'low battery' bit with Rance's laser gun, I think the whole sequence could have been shot MUCH more convincingly. I take it Joss was going for an Indiana Jones type moment, but it looked really contrived and goofy. For being such a wizard of making more out of less, Joss and Co. really underwhelmed me w/ that effort.





Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor


Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Monday, April 12, 2010 3:14 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


My negative comments about Firefly:

1. "Shindig" - the duel was poorly staged. We know Mal is no good with a sword, but Atherton was supposed to be expert. He didn't look it. And that fog? Lame.

2. "Ariel" - we are expected to believe that no one else on the ship heard Mal and Jayne's argument.

3. "Heart of Gold" - very weak villain.

4. "Objects in Space" - a near perfect episode, my favorite. But how did Jubal get inboard without setting off an alarm? And why wouldn't the airlock be inaccessible from outside during flight?




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, April 12, 2010 7:42 PM

OPPYH


Happy Mal(in the heat of battle) first five minutes of Serenity pt. 1. Waiting for Happy Mal to return for the rest of the series, or even the BDM..................ummmmmmmm still waiting.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, April 12, 2010 10:57 PM

AGENTROUKA


Hey Somnbabulist, nice to see you, as well!

The bow thing bothers me because it'a an inefficient weapon compared to her choice of guns available. No matter if it gave her a zen boost or she had more practice with it... she can shoot a gun, and a gun is a lot less difficult to handle than a bow. Less sitting straight up and exposing her entire upper body, basically.


But yay, we agree on a lot!




Auraptor,
word on the HOG chase scene. There were a few flaws in that episode, but the chase is the one thing I find unbearably embarrassing to watch. So I never do, ever.



Byte,
science and logics win again!!

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:27 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Firefly episodes are just too good for me to nitpick them.

BDM - some questions/problems:

Reavers :
30 million population Miranda
30,000 Reavers = 1/10 of 1% population
So, did at least half of the 30,0000 Reavers start off as women and children? Can females be Reavers? Would they rape and kill men? Would they have been raped, killed and eaten by male Reavers? What about kid Reavers? How did they fare? And their ships....they're running without containment, or running with thick smoke as exhaust. After 10 years how could those ships still be operating?

River's "conditioning" doesn't make sense to me. She's triggerred by subliminal sounds, then she goes into attack mode, indiscriminately beating and killing all around without knowledge or regard of who they are....well how would that ever play out in a real world situation? Then we see at the end of the movie she herself has the ability to just "turn it on" or off by her own will? Just doesn't tie into the beginning very well for me.

Most of the Operative thing is a problem for me as well. He strolls into the facility without anyone stopping him, and then proceeds to kill everyone, except maybe the young miss. Well, did she and the others there all go home early that day? Did they file a report to the police or something that a man came in and killed the top scientists there? What did they do the next day? Continue to torture other poor souls like River being held there?

This Operative, who has no name or rank, is able to command a fleet of Alliance starships? And they take command orders from him, a civillian? And when he uses an escape pod, it's just so conveniently takes him to Mr Universe's place? And why would he need dozens of spaceships to confront Serenity, an un-armed cargo ship?

Why did the Operative's computer read-out on Mal Reynolds indicate he was awarded a Medal of Valor? Losing army's heroes don't win medals from the victors, and losing army's medals are not known or accepted by the victors.

Those are some of my concerns with the BDM. Other prooblems for me are:
Simon's realtionship with Mal and crew...totally different than the series.
Why wouldn't the mighty Alliance just wipe out all the Reaver ships around Miranda, clean up the bodies, and start fresh with a new population? Big investment there just to have it rot away.
How could the Operative have found out so quickly and easily all the safe havens for Serenity, and then killed them all? Seems a tad far-fetched to me.
Why did all the crew just go along with Mal for the suicide run to Miranda? Seems like he had snapped over Book's death, and was making them now choose being abandoned there or going along to their death. Mal was not thinking of his own crews' well-being, and that was not in his character.
Why did patrons at the bar continue to engage and fight River? After she attacked and knocked out the first few, you would think the rest would just get the hell out of there, but more and more kept fighting her.
And the Operative was seeing this either live or later on tape? How many bars are there in the Alliance? How long would it take to go thru security feeds from all public establishments before finding the River incident?

There's more, but enough for now. I still love the BDM; it is what led me to Firefly. I watch it several times a year just to relive all the great parts about it that I love.











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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:41 AM

BYTEMITE


1) There was a female Reaver shown in the movie, I believe. The Reavers seem to develop a pack mentality and don't attack and kill other Reavers, since you'll notice Serenity, tiny compared to the Reaver ships it was passing through, was not attacked (or at least, not until Serenity attacked them and ruined the disguise). Being Serenity was so small, she would have been easy pickings if this was how Reavers operated. Also, the airspace above Mirana would be a constant battleground. It appears Reavers are capable of cooperation, but only with other Reavers.

Kid Reavers would be as aggressive and violent as adults, but probably be dominated by the adults, and the strongest of the adults would get the best pick of food and loot. Kids would eventually grow up, however, they may not go through puberty if they've been sterilized by the radiation. By now, due to exposure to radiation, probably most of the Reavers are sterile.

The Reavers seem capable of both flying and apparently maintaining their ships. It could be flying without core containment was a choice, and they stripped all safeties and failsafes from their engines so their engines would continue to run no matter what happened. It might also let them push the limits of their engines, when they might normally shutdown.

2) I assume the the subliminal message contained more than just a trigger, but also an instruction. Otherwise it would be worthless for controlling agents and sleepers in the field. The instruction was to beat the living bejesus out of everyone in her vicinity and be recorded doing it, to create a local newsworthy incident and reveal her location.

3) The Operative IS the police. And also a spy. And it's also likely he killed the young miss after he got what help he needed from her. It's very important I imagine for the Alliance government to have the general illusion of being perfect. The Alliance would make a cover story for the dead people, and send it out, and that would be the accepted, official story. And if anyone questioned it, they would fall under Alliance scrutiny. If the person under scrutiny seemed like they could prove a threat to the established order, then they too would be killed or imprisoned. See 1984 by George Orwell for how this would work. I imagine after the reader project inadvertently caused a leak of sensitive government information, it was immediately terminated. Everyone involved would have died. Blue Sun still wants River for further research, though, and the project might restart under other names.

4) The Operative is a Special Agent, not a civilian. He calls himself rankless, but his title is Operative of Parliament. Think of him like James Bond, only instead of the Double-Oh Agent designation, his designation is Operative. James Bond seems to be able to give orders to everyone up to Admirals or Generals, who he seems about peer to, but on occasion his orders can even supercede theirs.

5) Serenity Valley was a major loss for the Independents, and the forces at Serenity Valley did surrender, possibly at an order from High Command. But there are some strong indications that the Independents as a WHOLE did not surrender at Serenity Valley, and that there were a few minor skirmishes before the Independents surrendered completely. It's also likely that the ultimate surrender was after the Alliance destroyed Shadow, similar to the surrender of the Japanese in WW2. As such, it's likely that that Mal was awarded that medal while he was imprisoned, but before the war was over, and the medal was put on Mal's war record by the Independents. The Alliance probably seized those records and kept the information about medals and such to look for war criminals.

6) Wiping out the Reavers would require the Alliance acknowledging that Reavers exist and that Miranda happened. Even if the Alliance tried to play off the Reavers as a rebellion, any soldiers they sent out to destroy the Reavers would figure out pretty quickly that something was very wrong. And if word ever got back about what Reaver extermination crews had seen, the Alliance would be in serious trouble. So it was better to just manipulate events to start a war to distract everyone, and then deny deny deny about the Reavers.

Quote:

Why did all the crew just go along with Mal for the suicide run to Miranda? Seems like he had snapped over Book's death, and was making them now choose being abandoned there or going along to their death. Mal was not thinking of his own crews' well-being, and that was not in his character.


YES. Thank you. What he did there was horrible. But I actually like that part, and I actually think it is VERY in character for Mal. He is not always a perfect captain, look at how he tried to order Zoe to not marry Wash; Mal was being selfish, and was afraid he was losing Zoe. And in the comic book Better Days, it's pretty strongly suggested that he gave up a fortune that would have made the crew's lives better because he was afraid they would all leave him.

Why did the crew follow him, even though he was scaring the hell out of them and upsetting them by not letting them bury the bodies of their friends? Because scary as he is sometimes, they all care about him in their own way. And when they did see Miranda, it kinda justified his behaviour after-the-fact. When he went to Mr. Universe's moon, he was still operating on righteous fury and revenge, but by then, that had rubbed off on the rest of them over Miranda, and they wanted to do the right thing and get the message out.

The Operative found the live feed because it was intended to create a newsworthy incident. "90 Pound Girl takes on entire bar, disables everyone inside with no casualties. 'She was like a force of nature.'" -Side note: the crew speculates about whether or not River actually killed anyone. The DVD extras state that she didn't.


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:11 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Thanks a lot Bytemite for taking the time to respond to my questions. It's fascinating to me how you and others can draw from other sources, or create your own rationale and logic to justify situations that seem confusing or conflicting to me. I salute you!

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:10 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Happy Mal(in the heat of battle) first five minutes of Serenity pt. 1. Waiting for Happy Mal to return for the rest of the series, or even the BDM..................ummmmmmmm still waiting.



That though is the point of Firefly. Mal was never going to be that person again after that defeat. His spirit was crushed, his hope gone and his faith lost. The journey then becomes : Where does a man with nothing, go?


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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:57 AM

MINCINGBEAST


byte, mal drawing on his crew, and casually shooting the alliance pilot, is one of the best of all firefly moments. just in case you were afraid that mal was a good guy, he goes and makes himself interesting.

in fact, i actually enjoy all of the heartless violence and darkness. it is, however, sort of undermined by a few futile jabs at dork humor (i.e, pretty much everything out of wash's mouth).

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:14 PM

GOLDBRICK


Well, its annoying that the Firefly crew keep their plans too secret, resulting in various tragedies. End of episode twists are very entertaining if done well, but often in Firefly they come off a little lame. Example: Tracey died unnecessarily in "The Message" because no one took 10 seconds to explain the plan. (Retitle that episode: "The Mess")

And on a further negative note, if the series had lasted for years we would inevitably have seen some Whedon retread plots of which he has been seen to be overly fond.

Somehow the entire crew would lose their memories all at the same time (as happened in episodes in both Buffy and Angel -- and he kind of went off the deep end with this shtick in Dollhouse). Hilarious hijinks ensue as no one remembers how to fly, repair the ship, or heal the crew.

Mr. Whedon is not fond of persistent, thriving relationships, so over the course of several years we would have had to endure Wash and Zoe breaking up, Mal and Inara getting together and breaking up, and Kaylee and Simon getting together and breaking up.

Shuffle the deck and repeat, of course, so that we would get Kaylee and Jayne together and breaking up, Mal and Zoe getting together and breaking up, and so on.

(And of course we saw this temporary relationship thing also turned up to 11 in Dollhouse.)

Maybe we'd have seen an alternate universe Serenity where the ship is named Nervous Jitters and the crew acts pretty much the same except for Kaylee who's really depressing and the guys all have beards to show they're mostly evil and of course they all get killed.

Other annoying stuff:

Simon and River are considered part of the crew one episode and not on the crew the next. Make up your minds, guys!

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:15 PM

GOLDBRICK


Sorry, posted twice.

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:26 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Quote:

Originally posted by Goldbrick:
Sorry, posted twice.



Don't ya just hate it when that happens?

Kinda like storming out of a room with your point made and then forgetting you left your wallet!

But certainly you make some valid points about the relationship issues. That did bug me about Angel in particular.


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:46 AM

CHRISISALL


Only ONE thing bugs ME: leaving out the "whiner" line & Sheppard Book's passage reading voice-over from the BDM.



The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:00 PM

DEEPGIRL187


I think the biggest thing that bothered me was the lack of character development for some of the characters. And while I certainly acknowledge that there wasn't much time (stupid FOX), I guess I feel like they could have done a little bit more than they did. Zoe was the worst, I think; I always wanted to know more about who she was, other than the fact that she was Mal's second in command during the war. It seems like you knew more about what type of person the other characters were. But with Zoe, everything was a mystery.

****************************************************

"This isn't funny, Dean. The voice says I'm almost out of minutes."


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:11 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I always wanted to know more about who she was, other than the fact that she was Mal's second in command during the war.

She had been close to some during the war, those some getting killed in action. She swore off love with military types, knowing she'd eventually lose them to a bullet or a bomb.
Then came Wash, definitely not the fighting type, definitely not to be killed by a bullet or a bomb. He was safe to love.*


*Just my opinion is all- not cannon.


The laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:43 PM

DEEPGIRL187


I like your idea, Chrisisall. Even just one line like that would have been helpful, IMO.

****************************************************

"This isn't funny, Dean. The voice says I'm almost out of minutes."


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I like your idea, Chrisisall. Even just one line like that would have been helpful, IMO.



Except that *no one* is "safe" to love...


The not-laughing Chrisisall


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Tuesday, April 20, 2010 3:20 PM

REENACT12321


I'm sure Zoe would have had her moment under the microscope, but as we all know only too well, the series was cut short.

A lot of what you guys have listed about the BDM are things that bothered me, but were placed for the sake of smoothness to an audience who had not seen the series. (ie something of a character arc reboot for Jayne and the relationship between Simon and Mal).

A lot of things bothered me about the train job. But, justifiably so, it had been written in a weekend with Joss's hand forced by Fox execs.

However, the influence they had on the overall curve of the series (Mal not being a complete soul sucked individual in particular) I thought actually helped the series. Joss likes to take his sweet time and drive down his own road, which is what makes some of his work fantastic, but every once in awhile he needs a prod or two to keep him from crossing over into oncoming traffic. I think the interjection of some humor earlier (which I think he planned to do eventually, but not early when Mal was still broody) made the series as it was and as it would have been had it continued, far more endearing.

And on that note, the pilot was great. Some of the budgety things bugged me, the clear "Triton" label on containers and some of the inability to hide the budget's shortcomings (rubber guns) early on were kind of stingers (and which ever episode had them actually using an original 1800's style wagon, the clip of which was used over and over in the intro "when earth that was....")

Bushwacked... I don't know if anything bothered me so much as the episode was just rather.... disjointed, it never really had a direction. It also smelled of the really heavy space-drama the series might have completely consisted of (see: Early episodes of Lost-In-Space) had the interjection of humor not made it. And if you want to do a scary perilous episode, great, but the episode never really made you fear for the crew either.

Shindig, I love. Very little to criticize, except the lack of sword play you already mentioned.

Safe, is another favorite, the whole thing comes together, expands the universe, explores the characters, advances the arch of Simon-Mal warming up to not hating one another (the fact taht this was not solidified in later episodes, doesn't bug me as it does others. Just because you're willing to not let someone be stranded, doesn't mean you're always going to be bosom buddies).

Beyond that, I can't think of too many things. Oh one overarching thing, perhaps this is my induction into "Roddenberry-ish" sci-fi as a kid, they never show how anything works (even with pretend concepts), or explain the layout of their solar system (having a basic understanding of solar bodies makes this maddening. Galaxy? System? super system? where are they????(and yes I know about the piece-meal 'verse in numbers and QMX maps, but I wanted Joss to tell us) While the story really doesn't pivot on this, it being a western and the planets being symbolic of towns, it just bugs me. lol





"...we need a hood ornament..."

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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:27 PM

BORIS


The only thing that bugs me about Firefly is how insanely good looking they all are...I wish someone would have the balls to use brilliant but plain looking actors...not that I don't love the actors in question. But I'd like em just as much...no actually more if they were normal looking or even what society considers ugly. Obviously Inara has to be a stunner considering her job, and I do like that she's an exotic rather than a typical beauty.
I also like the multicultural aspects of the show...but noticed an extreme lack of people with disabilities whenever they were on different planets etc...or maybe those people were so well included in the scenes I never noticed them.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 1:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Dunno, sounds to me from that letter like Jayne's little brother is a lunger. And River has some severe disabilities. And there was the mute girl on Jiang Yin, and Jayne's former partner was missing an eye, and for some reason I seem to remember the lady who took in Simon and River in safe was blind, but maybe not.

But you're right, some of it isn't obvious, and it's often not main characters, and for seeing the aftermath of Civil War style carnage and lack of medical care on a solar system scale, there really aren't a whole lot of prosthetics or wheel chairs or crutches.

Hell, in the series Mal doesn't even have any scars, and in the movie they retconned a few minor ones, but in all honesty he actually probably ought to be a MESS. At one point he supposedly got shrapnel in his back, and who knows how many gun shot wounds and knife wounds he's had, and if he was a POW after Serenity Valley, there's a good case to give him some scars from that time too.

I pretend that the scars are all just very light and faded and so you can't really see them unless you looked close, but yeah.

Zoe's a similar story, but then we don't see as much of her uncovered.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by boris:
The only thing that bugs me about Firefly is how insanely good looking they all are

"Insanely??"
Joss purposely casts his characters in an acceptable (by Hollywood standards), but oblique way. Cordellia on Buffy/Angel was the ONLY ever dream chick/dude he let in. No other character EVER in his shows was typical beef or buff cake. Nathan comes closest, and maybe Adam, but even THEY have quirks in their looks that have kept them from true stardom (until now, hopefully). Joss breaks ground, and if Nathan gets a shot at the Indy role in future, it will be BIG for non-classic types for decades to come IMO.
We need these looks, we need real-er-lookin' peeps in front of cameras.
"Insanely?"
Check that dimwit chick in Transformers for that.



The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 2:21 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Zoe's a similar story, but then we don't see as much of her uncovered.

Zoe is full of scars. Inner ones. Wash took them away for a bit, but they're back. She never got obvious ones (until her Husband died, that is), because she's the best at what she does: surviving. Saving her foolish Captain. Sublimating pain.

IMHO anyway.



The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, April 21, 2010 4:53 PM

BORIS


I guess we all have our own ideas about looks and terms of measurement. Compared to me and the folks I hang with the BDH's are spectacurlarley aesthetically endowed in the looks department. I used the word "Insanely" poetically to highlight my own perception. I happen to think Nathan Fillion, Adam Baldwin and Sean Maher have classic movie star looks. Maybe what they are lacking is the hollywood El fake-o gloss that appeals to so very many people. Friends of mine who are not Firefly fans(sharp painful intake of breath coz i don't understand why) only watch Castle because they think Fillion's a beefcake (it makes me shudder when they talk about him like that and completely discount his talent and wit). The ladies of Firefly as far as I'm concerned have looks that are right on up there with Cate Blanchett, Catherine Zeta Jones,Audrey Hepburn,etc etc. That's just the way I look at it. And no offence even though the characters are very credible and real only Wash and Book have what I would consider to have Realish blend in with the crowd looks. if I saw the others on the street without knowing who they were, I would probably stop and say to myself "damn they're pretty".
ps: I don't have anything against pretty people, I would just like to see more unpretty people promoted for us to admire. e.g. I'm not a looker but like most people have a personality that attracts people and would like to see more of that in films and TV though i know that's an unrealistic expectation coz we humans are a fickle bunch
ppss regardless of everything I've said I still love our BDH's coz we know their personalities far outweigh their looks.

oh yeah and as for other Whedon shows...How are David Boreanaz and Marc Blucas not classic buffcake? many of my female (and some male)friends only started to tune into Buffy to score eyefuls of either of them shirtless! And Eliza Dushku is not only loved by sci-fi or Joss Whedon fans...she's the fantasy dream babe for many men (and some women) I know

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