They finally did it... by whozit

Yeah. I was watching it peripherally while playing an MMORPG and rolling my eyes a lot. Way to derail Beckett's character and motivations. And you just know they're going to backpeddle somehow by the start of next season.

But then I guess the people who watch regularly probably aren't going to care about any of that, so, they probably enjoyed it, who am I to judge.

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Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:20 PM

I think you have to be one of those people who like the endless couple gossip of who is with who today to like that kinda thing. I never could watch soap operas (sorry Nathan, I know that's where ya got yer roots). I could take it once or twice but story and character development is the main thing I watch shows for. Wish there was more of that these days...

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:54 AM

No more running. I aim to misbehave.

Sorry everyone I disagree. Are you planning on watching Castle like it was indefinitely? Characters have to change and grow in order for the story to continue. Castle and Beckett are growing in ways that you personally don't like but that doesn't make it wrong. There are patterns of activity in life. Times that are full of change and others that are quieter, where things fall into a steadier pace. This currently is a high level of change for our characters.

I sincerely hope that there is no back pedaling next season. When they find a way to deal with the crazy dude, things will slow down a lot. So much has changed. Everyone will need to take a quick glance in the rear view mirror and think "Damn. WTF just happened." Look around them make sure everyone they care about is still along for the ride and start slowly moving forward down the next stretch of road.

From things I have read and heard from less regular viewers the continuing story is helping to gain more regular viewers but the show runs the risk of losing the sporadic viewer ship. Some of the specific cases themselves have been lacking. Just a little bit. As a regular viewer, I find myself enjoying the cases Andrew Marlowe took a hand in writing most. I can tell the difference. Marlowe knows how to give a case that extra twist you don't normally see in other shows. The show will need that chemistry, those "smart" cases to keep things going or at least Marlowe's hand to guide them.

Ironically, I have had a couple of really busy days myself. I realized I need to glance in my rear view and say "WTF just happened?" Take an assessment and go from here too. Interesting...

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 3:06 AM

No more running. I aim to misbehave.

You're just jealous Whozit!

Some days this song just fits me.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 3:29 AM

Clearly this thread needs more snark.

I hope next season opens at the altar! There will be sparkles everywhere and a super glam dress! Someone will get shot! Again! It's four funerals and a wedding!

Seriously, BUP, you've mistaken me for someone who gives a damn, and I have not had any damns to give since the end of the second season. I'll randomly catch the end of an episode now and then, which is what happened this time.

If you think I'm complaining that they can't drag out this farcical will they won't they plotline for another few seasons then you've got me ALL wrong. Four seasons of it is quite enough. TWO seasons of it was enough. But from what I saw, that hook-up was pretty weakly justified and the storytelling/characterization was kind of botched.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 8:21 AM

STEGASAURUS

My wife actually screamed with excitement when it happened. I thought is was done just fine. I watch Castle purely for entertainment, not to disect and argue about. I just figured it was about time.

-Steg

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 8:39 AM

Quote:
I just figured it was about time.

Sure, but that doesn't mean they should do it just any old way. Especially when it means seriously disrespecting one of the characters involved.

Beckett hangs off the side of a building. There's scaffolding stairs like five feet off to her side. She can't shuffle over to them despite us knowing she's supposed to be in good shape. She has to hallucinate she hears her love interest and call out his name, and slowly lose her grip when her cop buddies catch her.

I give them credit for them not having Castle stalk her until she gets in trouble and go to her rescue, but it still doesn't fix that problem, or these...

1) Why does Beckett have to be humiliated and proven wrong and Castle proven right about the fight she had with him about her safety? 2) Have to abandon her concern (which certainly won't stick) about her mother's murder, a driving motivating factor for her, in order to come to terms with her feelings? 3) Not to mention that whole thing about Castle trying to keep her safe, which is beyond messed up (she's a COP, he's a WRITER) and she had every right to remain pissed off, which as far as I can tell really shouldn't lead to romantic interludes.

Writing just did not work.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:47 AM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by BUP:
You're just jealous Whozit!

Some days this song just fits me.

Fact: Sex is a leading cause of coodies, also "Castle" won it's time slot with over 12 million viewers beating the hell out of 5-0!

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:55 AM

Whozits nice comment about Castle winning it's time slot prompts me to say that I do actually wish Nathan and the crew on Castle every success (certainly the actors do a good job and do their best to make the characters fun), and that I don't begrudge anyone their enjoyment of Castle.

I should try not to do so much literary critiquing here.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:58 PM

No more running. I aim to misbehave.

You aren't getting the cooties from C or B...why are you crabby? Jeal-ous!

I'm not jealous. Why are you?

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:07 PM

No more running. I aim to misbehave.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
I just figured it was about time.

Sure, but that doesn't mean they should do it just any old way. Especially when it means seriously disrespecting one of the characters involved.

Beckett hangs off the side of a building. There's scaffolding stairs like five feet off to her side. She can't shuffle over to them despite us knowing she's supposed to be in good shape. She has to hallucinate she hears her love interest and call out his name, and slowly lose her grip when her cop buddies catch her.

I give them credit for them not having Castle stalk her until she gets in trouble and go to her rescue, but it still doesn't fix that problem, or these...

1) Why does Beckett have to be humiliated and proven wrong and Castle proven right about the fight she had with him about her safety? 2) Have to abandon her concern (which certainly won't stick) about her mother's murder, a driving motivating factor for her, in order to come to terms with her feelings? 3) Not to mention that whole thing about Castle trying to keep her safe, which is beyond messed up (she's a COP, he's a WRITER) and she had every right to remain pissed off, which as far as I can tell really shouldn't lead to romantic interludes.

Writing just did not work.

There is no problem with what you are saying.
I disagree. For four years we have had this elaborate dance charged with all kinds of emotions. If one person wasn't sad, hurt or wondering about the relationship the other one was. Countless ups and downs.
1) That is part of the story. Beckett is so lost in her emotional turmoil she isn't thinking straight even when the fire escape is only five feet away.
2) Sometimes a REALLY BIG WALL (caps for emphasis--I'm not yelling) has to fall on a person for them to even stop long enough to realize what they are doing. To get past it.
3) Castle was only picking up where Captain Montgomery left off when he tried to steer her in other directions. There are all kinds of romantic interludes and from time to time they can be motivated by anger or near death experiences.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:28 PM

Quote:
1) That is part of the story. Beckett is so lost in her emotional turmoil she isn't thinking straight even when the fire escape is only five feet away.

...yeah, no. In that situation she'd be thinking about SURVIVING, and it is just plain bad that she did not go for the obvious solution. This is someone who took shelter from a bomb in her bathtub. This is nowhere near that obscure.

Quote:
to even stop long enough to realize what they are doing. To get past it.

Shouldn't have even have come to that. It was pure idiot plot. And reconciling on the grounds that she's wrong about her mother's murder being a big deal? What? Just a bizarre approach and rationale.

Quote:
motivated by anger or near death experiences.

The episode tried to pass it off as dangerous, but the stairs were RIGHT THERE. Its not believeable as a near death experience.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:45 PM

I liked it and I thought it nicely done. I particularly liked the way Rick, in his frustration, told her how he felt. Nathan did that well.

You guys can sometimes get really snippy. It's just entertainment.

If you want some pseudo intellectual mannered crap there's plenty out there for you to glance over.

...Well here I am.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:23 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?

my wife is waaay more serious about Castle than I am...and she was ready to write a letter or shoot the TV set if they didn't finally hook up Kate n Castle..so she was ready for it.

frankly.. I'll be surprised if the show gets a next season..and I'll be even more surprised if I get roped into watching it...

there have been some good episodes that I've enjoyed...Zombies last week was light watching fun for example.

but much of the show's efforts at an ongoing underlying theme have been too tedious and in enough cases, the liberal mindset of the network and writers have taken a plot in a direction that I just can't buy into.
all that to say I'm very happy that another Joss character has done so well and I'll put money on a bet any day that Nathan and the cute little strawberry daughter are spending a bit of time in their studio trailer..he seeems to really enjoy his hug scene moments.. (LOL)

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:54 AM

The few things I like about the writing of the show is the side characters, the jokes, and the way they deal with cultures and subcultures pretty evenly for a cop show. Other cop shows would look at geek culture stuff and consider everyone deviant and automatically evil.

But the long term underlying plot and character development is kind of not good. And the will they won't they became ridiculous a long time ago, and actually detracts from the show.

Quote:
but much of the show's efforts at an ongoing underlying theme have been too tedious

Exactly. It's an excuse plot as a vector for unresolved tension. I suppose you can't expect too much considering that's the end goal, but at the same time, it doesn't make the bad writing okay. And that hook up was pretty badly written. A good hook up shouldn't have you saying "what" at the screen, shaking your head, rolling your eyes, or giving yourself a headache because it's such an outlandish and nonsensical situation. Everything that could have been applicable, like seeking life affirmation from a near-death experience, it was applied WRONG and writing wise was just plain not executed well. It's a credit to the actors if they made it work on any level.

Quote:
I'll put money on a bet any day that Nathan and the cute little strawberry daughter are spending a bit of time in their studio trailer..he seeems to really enjoy his hug scene moments.. (LOL)

He's been mentoring her, she's says it's a very father-daughter relationship.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:55 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

The only reason I've ever watched Castle is because of Nathan. Some of their episodes have been okay; the Halloween one where he wore Mal's outfit, the steampunk ep, the zombies, Adam's guest shot, etc. Most of the time it's dreary procedural crap I don't care about. I knew Caskett was just a matter of time, but they will either have to backtrack from that and throw some roadblock in their way, or else completely revamp the show into one where Beckett stays off the force but continues her pursuit of her mother's killers.

Even though it has not been announced yet, I would be extremely surprised if it is not renewed. It almost always wins its time slot with a respectable viewer number.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
I liked it and I thought it nicely done. I particularly liked the way Rick, in his frustration, told her how he felt. Nathan did that well.

You guys can sometimes get really snippy. It's just entertainment.

Nathan's acting was spot on, I will give you that...The man has talent.

I understand where Byte's comin from though, Yeah, it's entertainment, but we have high expectations from our Crew. I felt like they based the whole hooking up thing on flimsy plot myself. I mean, I know better than most a woman can change her mind with the wind...but, I didn't buy it. It was just too easy, too convenient. But then, I've said all along it's New York and two hot adults taking three years to get busy???? Please. This day and age somebody would've been naked by the end of the week, I'm sure.. And the stairwell was pretty distracting, too. They did the whole "I'm falling one finger at a time" thing always reminds me of people drowning and holding up five fingers, then four, then three....Cheezy!

I love the fun of the show, and the subculture, but I hate that it feels dumbed down and flippant to viewers that pay attention...

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:47 PM

Hey Wishimay

Quote:
Nathan's acting was spot on, I will give you that...The man has talent.

Doesn't he just. He's awesome.

Quote:
I understand where Byte's comin from though, Yeah, it's entertainment, but we have high expectations from our Crew. I felt like they based the whole hooking up thing on flimsy plot myself. I mean, I know better than most a woman can change her mind with the wind...but, I didn't buy it. It was just too easy, too convenient.

I understand where the frustration is coming from but these are the mechanics of the show. It has been like that since day one. So I personally saw nothing that was out of context with the 'ethos' of the show so it didn't bother me.

Quote:
But then, I've said all along it's New York and two hot adults taking three years to get busy???? Please. This day and age somebody would've been naked by the end of the week, I'm sure..

Again, this is contrary to the style of the show. What you speak of is something more akin to Sex and the City. You're absolutely right of course and spot on but it has no place in Castle and in particular to Kate and Rick's relationship. Their relationship is supposed to be something odd and difficult and, for want of a better word, exceptional. (and yes I realise how cheesy that sounds :)) But that's the rub.

Quote:
And the stairwell was pretty distracting, too. They did the whole "I'm falling one finger at a time" thing always reminds me of people drowning and holding up five fingers, then four, then three....Cheezy!

Ok well, you know I guess this is indefensible to an extent :D. I can only say that here what you're dealing with is 'classic' cinema/TV. It is cheesy you're right, but these creatives do tend to do this kind of thing. Chances are Andrew Marlowe is a fan of Hitchcock and in particular Vertigo, because it has all the motifs employed in that film. That I guess is just a writers privilege if you will. But fair enough you point out it's flaws.

They all do it. Joss does it with Buffy when Tara runs away from the Gentlemen then inexplicably trips over flat grass! It's just the language of the medium. *Shrugg* But I can let it slide personally (sometimes) because it's all about entertainment.

Part of me actually thinks that your frustration is exactly what the writers are going for. You clearly (myself included) have a vested interest in the characters and that's kind of the point. You care enough to be frustrated by it, which as a writer I would count as a success. A reaction, however negative it may seem, is better than no reaction at all.

Quote:
I love the fun of the show, and the subculture, but I hate that it feels dumbed down and flippant to viewers that pay attention.

I don't see why if you don't like something it is somehow dumbed down. I hear that phrase a lot and I think it's overused. But that's just my opinion. I think they did a great job; but I've always felt there was never going to be a satisfactory way to realise Kate and Rick's relationship. It had, as all these things do, become to big to pacify and it was always going to seem awkward. A bit like the ending to Lost; there was nothing grandiose enough to bring that to a satisfying conclusion.

°...Well here I am.°

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:56 PM

Oh and I've just read. Castle has been renewed.

°...Well here I am.°

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Friday, May 11, 2012 6:22 AM

Quote:

Ok well, you know I guess this is indefensible to an extent :D. I can only say that here what you're dealing with is 'classic' cinema/TV. It is cheesy you're right, but these creatives do tend to do this kind of thing. Chances are Andrew Marlowe is a fan of Hitchcock and in particular Vertigo, because it has all the motifs employed in that film. That I guess is just a writers privilege if you will. But fair enough you point out it's flaws.

They all do it. Joss does it with Buffy when Tara runs away from the Gentlemen then inexplicably trips over flat grass! It's just the language of the medium. *Shrugg* But I can let it slide personally (sometimes) because it's all about entertainment.

True. I just got through a conversation in another thread about how River could jump off Serenity at her withers... Fifty feet from the ground above the cargo bay airlock.

We speculated it was either lower gravity or that River might also be telekinetic.

I suppose maybe being kicked out of immersion by the cliche slowly losing grip fall catch with the nearby fire escape made me more able to notice the other writing character motivation problems and if I'd been more into the show I might have been able to overlook all the rest.

But since I wasn't, I can't.

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
I love the fun of the show, and the subculture, but I hate that it feels dumbed down and flippant to viewers that pay attention.

I don't see why if you don't like something it is somehow dumbed down. I hear that phrase a lot and I think it's overused. But that's just my opinion. I think they did a great job; but I've always felt there was never going to be a satisfactory way to realise Kate and Rick's relationship. It had, as all these things do, become to big to pacify and it was always going to seem awkward. A bit like the ending to Lost; there was nothing grandiose enough to bring that to a satisfying conclusion.

The show is about a DETECTIVE and a WRITER. It should be smarter than yer av-er-age bear. Instead, I get the feeling it's more for people who aren't picky or for teens who haven't seen every other crime show in the last twenty years. They are re-hashing every plot point ever written, putting it in a tumble dryer, pulling it out and pretending that it's fresh, which for a few, I guess it is...Just not for me. To ME it feels dumbed down. But then I've read or seen just about every thing crime-wise out there at some point, as there isn't much else to do here. I've just recently gotten into the new Sherlock Holmes on PBS, and the writing on that blows Castle out of the water (granted Sherlock is supposed to be superhuman and Beckett ain't). If you haven't, I recommend "Scandal in Belgravia" the ending was epic! I woke up still figuring out the bigger plot points and giggling to myself. Watch THAT and tell me there isn't a vast-y difference here....

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:33 AM

To be fair, you're comparing stuff based off a classic literature character to popculture television.

(<3 Sherlock Holmes)

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:28 AM

Hello again Wishimay.

Originally posted by Wishimay:

Quote:
The show is about a DETECTIVE and a WRITER. It should be smarter than yer av-er-age bear.

Well it is.

Quote:
Instead, I get the feeling it's more for people who aren't picky or for teens who haven't seen every other crime show in the last twenty years.

Again I still don't see the need to put down the people who enjoy this kind of thing. Can people not just enjoy it without be categorised as 'less' intelligent? I know that when my girlfriend and I are done with work and we're back home after a long day, we're just happy to decompress over a tv show. There aren't many that we like to watch as a couple as our tastes vary, but with Castle it's something that we can both engage with and have a giggle along the way and just let the difficulties of the day wash over us. I just find it sad that this genuinely pleasant routine is considered dumbing down. But so be it I guess.

Quote:
They are re-hashing every plot point ever written, putting it in a tumble dryer, pulling it out and pretending that it's fresh

How are they pretending it's fresh exactly? I can't believe any producer of a TV cop show is thinking they're content is unique.

Quote:
I've just recently gotten into the new Sherlock Holmes on PBS, and the writing on that blows Castle out of the water (granted Sherlock is supposed to be superhuman and Beckett ain't). If you haven't, I recommend "Scandal in Belgravia" the ending was epic! I woke up still figuring out the bigger plot points and giggling to myself. Watch THAT and tell me there isn't a vast-y difference here....

I take it we're talking about the BBC version. Here in the UK we're really saturated with Cop/Crime/Forensic type dramas, as well as period drama's so for me personally I'm over it. The character is a classic and during my lifetime I must have seen Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Basil Rathbone, Jeremy Brett, Michael Cain and a few more play this character, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart I've always found the guy ludicrous and hokey! The character is so over the top I just want his face punched in. In fact most of the time I want him to get it completely wrong and be made a fool.

Now that doesn't diminish the quality of the writing and Steven Moffat (Writer of the present incarnation of Holmes) is one of the best writers for TV that we have in the U.K. at the moment, but I just don't like Sherlock Holmes. He's a ridiculous character that can only be appreciated if you really, really dispense with reality.

There is a Vasty difference you're right, but it's not as vast as you think.... At least not for a Brit watching yet another rendition of a hyperbolic super sleuth.

Also it should be noted that here in the U.K. a season is generally only six episodes (though I don't know if this is the case with Sherlock Holmes) so the pressure to produce quality & content is less demanding. Given a season of Castle is 22/23 episodes it's no surprise it may not match up to six episodes of Sherlock Holmes for quality....

°...Well here I am.°

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:47 AM

Hello again Byte,

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Quote:

I suppose maybe being kicked out of immersion by the cliche slowly losing grip fall catch with the nearby fire escape made me more able to notice the other writing character motivation problems and if I'd been more into the show I might have been able to overlook all the rest.

But since I wasn't, I can't.

I think that's the crux of it really Byte. I think it is about being into the show. You make concessions for a show if you've followed it along the way more so than someone who may be sitting on the fence over it.

°...Well here I am.°

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Friday, May 11, 2012 11:55 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Moffat's Sherlock Holmes has been three episodes each season, but they are double-length, more like a mini-movie than a typical episode.

Som, I'm curious if you watch, or have watched, The Mentalist. Patrick Jane is essentially the same as Holmes, a hyper-alert meticulous gatherer of information. Neither are normal characters, but neither are ludicrous either. Both are superior thinkers and are well aware of their abilities, and thus can seem extremely full of themselves.

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Friday, May 11, 2012 12:34 PM

Hi EC.

No I haven't watched The Mentalist. I probably should at least try it. My brother keeps telling me to watch it. You recommend it then...?

Thanks for the info on Holmes. I had watched the first one and it was really clever, but I just found Holmes hookey. Martin Freeman's Watson was great and really he's the character designed to relate to, but I just could not get into it and I must admit to being really disappointed with the reveal.

But you know I just have a problem with that character. Totally all my hang-up I'm sure.

°...Well here I am.°

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Friday, May 11, 2012 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:

Again I still don't see the need to put down the people who enjoy this kind of thing. Can people not just enjoy it without be categorised as 'less' intelligent?

[lifetime I must have seen Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Basil Rathbone, Jeremy Brett, Michael Cain

.... appreciated if you really, really dispense with reality.

1. If we were talking about the people who enjoy Jersey Shore, would you still stay the same thing??

Really, I'm glad you and yer GF are happy with watching Castle, I know it's hard to find things to do as a couple.

2.You forgot Robert Downey, Jr.

3.I thought that WAS the point of TV and entertainment...

I'll just agree to disagree. You can watch Castle and I'll sit around and go PFFFT!ARE THEY EVEN TRYING?? and I will watch Sherlock and you can sit around and say GRR, THAT GUY IS A POMPUS ASS!! I'm guessing you don't like "House" either.

Agreed?

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Friday, May 11, 2012 1:55 PM

Originally posted by Wishimay:

Quote:
1. If we were talking about the people who enjoy Jersey Shore, would you still stay the same thing?? Really, I'm glad you and yer GF are happy with watching Castle, I know it's hard to find things to do as a couple.

I don't know what Jersey Shore is, but I'm guessing it's something pretty awful right :D? You know there are people out there who regard watching Sci-Fi as dumbing down, or that a Stephen King novel isn't really literature or that playing a computer game is redundant.... Point is I don't think it even handed to judge people on what they individually like from entertainment. It's all very personal and there can be many a reason why people watch what they do.

Fair enough you/I don't necessarily share the same sentiments regarding Castle and I'm not challenging that, but would you really disregard me if we met somewhere and it came out I watch Castle. Could you really decide there and then that, you'd be wasting your time talking to me and that I'd have nothing worthwhile to offer in conversation because by your standards I watch a dumb show...?

Quote:
2.You forgot Robert Downey, Jr.

A good Sherlock he is too, and yes I did. Sorry.

Quote:
3.I thought that WAS the point of TV and entertainment...

So an intelligent show can veer from credibility then?

Quote:
I'll just agree to disagree. You can watch Castle and I'll sit around and go PFFFT!ARE THEY EVEN TRYING?? and I will watch Sherlock and you can sit around and say GRR, THAT GUY IS A POMPUS ASS!!

Indeed :D Only I'd say Arse because I'm half English

Quote:
I'm guessing you don't like "House" either.

Actually I liked House a lot and I love Hugh Laurie, but I'm no good with medical dramas as brilliant as that show is. (My kink I will concede)

Quote:
Agreed?

Agreed :D

By the way you know we both Love Firefly right.

°...Well here I am.°

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Friday, May 11, 2012 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:

Fair enough you/I don't necessarily share the same sentiments regarding Castle and I'm not challenging that, but would you really disregard me if we met somewhere and it came out I watch Castle. Could you really decide there and then that, you'd be wasting your time talking to me and that I'd have nothing worthwhile to offer in conversation because by your standards I watch a dumb show...?

You prolly oughta know I married pretty much my opposite in every way, heh. THAT'S how much I value difference of opinion.

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:54 PM

:D
Nifty

°...Well here I am.°

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:40 PM