The best villains in firefly- who gets your vote? by Stubbs

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

The best villains in firefly- who gets your vote?

POSTED BY: STUBBS
UPDATED: Thursday, May 3, 2007 04:45
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 28570
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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:18 AM

i dont know if this has been done before but im new so forgive my ignorance. I think we should have a debate over who the best Firefly villain is. The nominees are-
Jubal Early
Niska
Saffron
Patience
The reavers
and any others you can think of (even Jayne if youre feeling fruity). I personally would go for Saffron because shes such a bitch! she is excellent at her job and just when you think shes shown signs of humanity she turns out to be that bitch again. So, best villains

Stubbs

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:22 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Jubal Early. That scene with Kaylee in the engine room is forever burned into my memory. I think I can pretty much quote it word for word, and it still makes me shudder when I watch it.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:23 AM

MATTCOZ

Two by two...

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:27 AM

STUBBS

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Jubal Early. That scene with Kaylee in the engine room is forever burned into my memory. I think I can pretty much quote it word for word, and it still makes me shudder when I watch it.

When he says have you ever been raped i was almost as afraid as her. Kaylee is so vulnerable in that scene. Jewel Staite plays it so well

Stubbs

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:27 AM

CHRISISALL

Man is by far stronger than woman, yet only woman can make a child; that seem right to you?

It's Jubal Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:50 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
When he says have you ever been raped i was almost as afraid as her. Kaylee is so vulnerable in that scene. Jewel Staite plays it so well

Jewel was incredible in that scene. I've never been able to forget the look of terror on her face during that scene.

Kaylee: The c-captrain is right down the hall, the can h-hear you...
Jubel: The captain is locked in his quaters. Same as the rest of the crew. There's no one can help you. Say it.
Kaylee: (crying) There's no one can help me...

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:23 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD

Not sure if Badger counts, if he does I'd have to say he's my favorite. You know, fancy hat, roots in the community and such.
Another villian I have to give credit is the Operative. I can't say why I like him, maybe cause he's so calm and intelligent. In the BDM when Mal first meets him the Operative is great. Mal questions his tactis and the Operative explains exactly how Mal would respond very quickly. Then of course claims he's unarmed and is shot is quite hilarious.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:33 AM

MATTCOZ

Jewel is a fantastic actress, really a shame she doesn't get more roles.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 7:34 AM

NUCLEARDAY

That's one that seems to get tougher the more I think about it...

Jubal's one of those villains that I'd love to hate. Just wanted to rip his lungs out after that scene with Kaylee, but by the end of the ep, I was sort of wondering if he'd somehow manage to survive and show up later on in the series.

And you can't forget about Badger... ;p

Really, really liked the Operative, though. (Chiwetel Ejiofor is a really great actor anyways, so that helps.) Sort of a sympathetic villain, really. Agreed, it's hard to put my finger on it, but there's that sense of compassion and intelligence about him... quite possibly the last man in the 'verse I'd want gunning for me.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:00 AM

THIEFJEHAT

The Bounty Hunter philosopher is by far the most well written villian since the Mayor in season 3 Buffy.

Jubal Early. #1

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:11 AM

LEIGHKOHL

For my money, it's Saffron. She is so manipulative and hilarious! She's the best kind of villian because you seem to be rooting for her, even when you know she's a complete liar and a bit of a sociopath. Jubal would have to be my second favorite, he's just creepy.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:44 AM

STAKETHELURK

If we’re talking only about “Firefly,” which I think we are, Jubal Early gets my vote. Smart, scary, philosophical, and more than a little nuts--he’s got it all.

But if we threw in the BDM, it’s the Operative, hands down. “Secrets are not my concern. Keeping them is.”

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:20 AM

DONCOAT

I'm not saying he's my all-time favorite, but how's about a little shout-out for Crow?

He at least had the most memorable comeuppance of any of our BDH's antagonists. He even shares famous-last-words honors with Early.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I know Jubal Early is alive." -- Joss Whedon

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:34 AM

SINGATE

A lot of people have been up in arms about what Early said to Kaylee. Everything he did aboard Serenity was for one purpose: to get at River. I don't believe he had any intention of harming Kaylee. He just needed to scare her so much that she wouldn't try to hinder him. From what Joss said in the commentary Early was intuitive to the point of almost being psychic. Therefore he has an understanding of how to best deal with each crew member. Remember, he could have killed anyone on board but he did not. He knocks out Mal, then locks the majority of the crew in their quarters. He goes on to scare Kaylee in the worst way he can and later uses her to gain Simon's compliance. Everything he did was calculated to get at River with the least amount of resistance as possible. Not the actions of a nice man but certain not the worst villain our BDH have encountered.

My vote goes to Niska. That man is truly evil. Anyone would torture someone to death only to revive him with the sole purpose of making him suffer further is a bad MF.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 10:34 AM

ZORPRIME01

I vote for Saffron, followed closely by Early.

I can kill you with my brian.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:23 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
I don't believe he had any intention of harming Kaylee.

I respectfully disagree. Jubal didn't hurt the crew as much as he could have, but he was still an evil, nasty person who I think would have enjoyed hurting them very much. He says to Simon that he would "take no pleasure" in hurting Kaylee, but River sees right through this, letting us know just how depraved he really is.

Jubal says he only hurts people "when the job requires it", but River lets us know that this isn't true. "It's why you took the job." She makes it very clear that Jubal has been hurting things since childhood - the description of how he killed the dog that didn't like him and "cleaned up after" is downright disturbing. Remember too that in that scene we get a glimpse of the monster under that calm exterior, when we see Jubal's calm face intercut with his true reaction to River's words.

I think Jubal was determained to get River and his reward, but make no mistake - he would have had no qualms about hurting Kaylee. He would have enjoyed it.

I really don't like him!

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:25 PM

AGIRLYMAN

He may not be the worst villian, but he is the one I hate the most, yet I don't know his name. He is the Captain that shot Mal in "Out of gas". I even tried to listen to it, and I would like to see that guy get what he deserved.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:35 PM

JCW

...hands of blue

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:37 PM

PERSEPHONE736

Niska, without a doubt.

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:49 PM

THEREAVER

Quote:
Originally posted by Persephone736:
Niska, without a doubt.

Agreed. There's one line that does it for me. It goes something like:

"My wife's nephew. I get talking to at dinner but this is unavoidable."

-----------------------
I'll rape you to death.
I'll eat your flesh.
I'll sew your skin into my clothes.
If you're very very lucky, I'll do it in that order - TheReaver

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Wednesday, March 15, 2006 5:23 PM

ZAKNRFAMA

Got to say Niska, with Badger coming in at second (even though he's not on the list). Niska is just so very evil. His cruelty actually surprised me, I didn't think he'd go so far. And Badger's just really damn cool. I love that hat.

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Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:40 AM

GARYPRYKE

Blue Gloves.

Oh and are you counting The Operative?

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Friday, March 17, 2006 6:18 AM

RHODRI

Niska is the most evil B#@%#*d of the lot.

Let's face it - nobody would want to be in his clutches! Saffron's yes, but definitely NOT Niska!

BigDamnVillain #1

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Friday, March 17, 2006 6:31 AM

ARCADIA

I don't think of myself as a lion. You may as well, though: I have a mighty roar.

Jubal Early, a villian of my heart.

He's my favorite because a) his dialogue is existentially awesome b) he is scary as hell [Kaylee's near-rape scene, ah!] c) he is by no means a stupid villian. We really should be afraid of him. If he had been after anyone how wasn't a psychic, they would have been gone.

I've no sure if he is the most evil. Niska is probably eviler, but Early is definately the coolest, most interesting villian. I'm so sad we won't see more of him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Friday, March 17, 2006 10:26 AM

LADYSERENITY

I do agree that Jubal Early is a great villain. Tha scene with him and Kaylee in the engine room makes a chill go down my spine every time I watch it. And the part on the bridge where River is talking about his dog and his mother and the scene cuts to him screaming and shaking his head and going crazy? Freaky. But I can't shake "two by two hands of blue" The blue gloves in "Ariel" really make me shudder. They just sit there and calmly pull out this weapon that makes you bleed out all your orifices. Ewww. And insanely creepy. Evil if you ask me. Goes along with how the Operative would ask how you are then run you through with that sword of his.

"Serenity part one"
Kaylee:I love my captain.

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Friday, March 17, 2006 10:27 AM

LADYSERENITY

I do agree that Jubal Early is a great villain. That scene with him and Kaylee in the engine room makes a chill go down my spine every time I watch it. And the part on the bridge where River is talking about his dog and his mother and the scene cuts to him screaming and shaking his head and going crazy? Freaky. But I can't shake "two by two hands of blue" The blue gloves in "Ariel" really make me shudder. They just sit there and calmly pull out this weapon that makes you bleed out all your orifices. Ewww. And insanely creepy. Evil if you ask me. Goes along with how the Operative would ask how you are then run you through with that sword of his.

"Serenity" part one
Kaylee: I love my captain.

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Friday, March 17, 2006 11:26 AM

20THCENTFOXHATER

i would go for either Niska or the Blue Hands. The Blue Hands are soooooo Joss Whedon scary. They're mysterious, and are very original in premise. But Niska is just plain ol' Nazi freaky, which is pretty scary being that you probably wouldn't want to be tortured.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Friday, March 17, 2006 1:32 PM

DONCOAT

Yeah. Pain is scary.

I heard that someplace...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Monday, March 20, 2006 6:40 PM

JOCKOCKEYOCK

um you forgot the entire Aliance people...

Saphrons not a villan but a vixon

Niskas just old a grumpy

Earlys not right in the head

Patience was a power mongol and had to feed her people more than half a moons worth

The Reavers well their canibles they got to eat something and have hobbies

Jayne well hes in love with money not a villan

The agants with gloves were just doing thier jobs covering up the mess that River leaves in her wake or rather killing all the people that she has contact with

can we concider bager to be a villan? he is an agravating antaganistic lying cheeting peice of gosa

The best villan would be Shun Yu or how ever you spell his name. he put people in valcanos for fun... now thats evil... specualy when you live in the middle of a desrt...

The court of this obsession, is abstracted from possession which when the worlds of outside in fall.

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Tuesday, March 21, 2006 1:14 PM

NATEM

I was just thinking about on one of the special features one of the characters quotes Willem Defoe saying there is no difference between hero or villain because both think they are right, that they are justified. That being said I think the Operative would be best because he new what he did was evil but he still did it for a greater good. So he was sacrificing himself for what was "right" which is a heroic quality even if he is a villain.

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Sunday, March 26, 2006 12:46 AM

J6NGO1977

Definately the Reavers. They are bad. I don't see Badger there? but I guess he isn't really a villain. Saff she is bad but that's what's so damned sexy about her :)

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Monday, March 27, 2006 5:01 AM

GREATBLACKTHORN

The Operative, HANDS DOWN. Simply cus he's so gorram cool. Niska, I just hate, alot...

Any villain that uses a sword wins, fact. Jubal doesn't want to kill most of the time by the looks of it, Niska loves to kill and is a twisted son'bitch, but the Operative kills and doesn't flinch. He even knows he's a monster...OPERATIVE FOR PRESIDENT!! >_>

She'll turn you in before you can say "Don't turn me in...lady..."

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:58 PM

MILFORD

What about Badger? If it wasn't for him, we'd miss out on a couple of the best episodes in the whole series. I also like him because he's the only person in the whole verse not put off by River. She seems perfectly normal to him. That is at first hilarious and then creepy. Beyond him I'd have to go with Jubal and then the two by two guys. They're both creepy. But as for pure villainy, Badger gets my vote.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.

Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre

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Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:53 PM

USAGIVINDALOO

Oh wow... that's a tough one. I think I'd have to hand it to the Two By Two Hands of Blue people, they were just SCARY. Even in their very first appearance at the end of the episode, they gave me the chills; River's obsession over them alone freaked the heck out of me. I remember thinking that if she was so fixated on them, they MUST have done something truly horrible. I can't wait to get my hands on the comic about them someday.

To be honest, the fact they didn't use those two initially prejudiced me against the Operative ("Why make a new character when you had great villains already?") but that didn't even last past the first viewing. The Operative was wonderful, so ruthless and yet admirable in a way in his focus. He was wonderful and almost on par with the Hands of Blue.

I also loved Early and would put him at about the same level as the others. My love of Law and Order aside, he just had the best lines, absolutely hilarious, yet that scene with Kaylee made me want to scream. I hope that he survives to return in future installations!

EDIT: And OMG, how could I forget the Reavers? Bushwacked (the one with the derelict, right?) was an exercise in creepiness, and that survivor... SCREAM. I also thought the first pass through Reaver space in the BDM was freaky with the screaming over the radio.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:51 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

I'm picking Rance Burgess from Heart of Gold as the best villain for three reasons.
1. He truly is quite villainous.
2. Any Man who worries our Captain must be someone to be reckoned with.
3. And finally, because no one else has picked him yet.

De-lurking to stir stuff up

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:06 PM

TARRISH

I'd have to say my favorite villain from the entire show would have to be Jubal Early. He was funny, crazy, and smart all at the same time. The guy was written in such a creative fashion. I loved how he philosophized everything. Bounty Hunters are some of the coolest villains when they are put in that category.

The two other villains that tie in second are The Reavers and Hands of Blue. The Reavers were wicked, and I wish we could have got a better look at them. The Hands in Blue were just creepy. They reminded me of the silent men from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Just plain creepy, and River sure didn't take a liking to them.

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 2:50 PM

JOSSISAGOD

The Blue-hands men get my vote. They're ruthless and probably one of two types of beings in the 'verse that would give River a fight, before she gutted them! the other being The Operative.
Niska's a close third.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:12 PM

SPACECOWGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
My vote goes to Niska. That man is truly evil. Anyone would torture someone to death only to revive him with the sole purpose of making him suffer further is a bad MF.

I have to go with Niska also. Jubal Early was scary too--but at least we knew he was mentally disturbed. Niska was just evil, and he enjoyed it.

Certainty of death, small chance of success--
What are we waitin' for?

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 3:12 PM

SPACECOWGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
My vote goes to Niska. That man is truly evil. Anyone would torture someone to death only to revive him with the sole purpose of making him suffer further is a bad MF.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:38 PM

KIZYR

This is tough... real tough.
I mean, all the villians in Firefly have their own points where you just love to hate them.

After mulling it over, I'd have to say that the Operative is at the top of the list. He just didn't slip up; he had no qualms about being evil--even owned up to it--but had a whole ends-justify-means philosophy that was his guiding principle. He was someone entirely unencumbered by any other considerations to get to his goal.

He's the kind of villian where you can't find a weak point. You can barely stay one step ahead of him, if ahead of him at all. The only reason Mal won was... well... he had a psychic on his side and was just that much faster.

As far as the regular series goes, I originally thought Niska, just 'cause of how downright evil he is. But then, I'd have to settle on Badger. He's a sad li'le kind of a sad li'le hill, you just want to knock his teeth in so much, but he's surrounded by 4 armed guards and is your only meal ticket, so you gotta put up with him. KF

~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

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Sunday, April 2, 2006 11:25 PM

MAGHAFFAR

My votes goes for Niska, and here's why.
The scene in "War Stories" where Zoe goes to
pay Niska for Mal and Wash's release, Niska starts to
make Zoe choose only one --
notice how she's all military in dealing with him?
Great in-character stuff for her --
but after she picks Wash, Niska is THINKING
"How can I hurt them and Captain Reynolds?"
So he tells her she's paid too much and is getting a refund...
So he can cut off Mal's ear. Now THAT's evil.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 12:40 AM

REAVERMAN

I think the Operative is the best. He's polite, intelligent, compassionate, and completely ruthless. He will not hesitate to kill, but will apologize and try to comfort who he's killing at the same time. He's also great because he's a mirror of Mal. He believes that what he's doing is best for everyone, and will stop at nothing to finish it. He only wants to make the 'verse a better place.

Niska comes in second. He's got that Grandfatherly look, combined with the strange accent, combined with sadistic psychosis. Plus, he gets all philosifical(is that a word?). What's not to love?

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Monday, April 3, 2006 2:37 AM

JONUS

HANDS OF BLUE! The coolest villains in the show. Too bad they weren't in the film. There just wasn't enough of em.

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 8:38 AM

MACQYVER

Please do not judge me by this next sentence: My favorite villain would have to be Simon Tam. Yes, I know he's one of the good guys, but to quote Sir Alec Guinness "Many things that we consider true depond on ourpoint of view". You see, from the aliances perspective Simon and River are outlaws, bandits, vandils, villains, desperado's..., but my point is that acording to the aliance the Tams are villains. But that Doesn't really fit the question.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't have some pretty strong feeling about Early. I don't mean "Boy, I sure wish that he would come back in another episode" feelings, I mean "Boy, I sure wish that Early had died a more humiliating death". You see, when I saw the engine room scene of Objects In Space, where he threatens Kalee, my blood started to boil. The thing is one of my freinds is the spitting image of Kalee. Believe me when I say she could pass for Kalee's younger sister. She has the same hair color and hair style as Kalee, along with a face that is pretty simalar to Kalee's. Plus she has the same cheerful disposision. I can easily see why Simon's got the hots for her. Anyways, I despise Jubile Early as much as I like my freind who might be related to the enginear. If I lived in the 'Verse, I can garantee you that if I ever ran into Early there would probably be a fight and I would probably walk away with a few injuries, but Early would carried to boot hill with a 12-guage three inch magnum round of "OO" buchshot in his gut, with the permission of the Captain of course. Early deffinately gets my vote for the villain I love to hate.

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 9:17 AM

MACQYVER

Also, if the Fedral Government is monitoring this site I would to emphasize that my previous post was not a threat of any kind, nor was it directed at anyone whatsoever. I was simply trying to convey how much I dislike a Fictional character on a television series.

this is my one version of the screen play for Rambo First Blood:

(sherif)

(Jon Rambo)

[rambo escapes to woods}
(Jon Rambo)

(deputys)

(Jon Rambo)

This pretty much sums up the shooting, swearring and hand to hand combat in the movie.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:02 PM

LADYKNIGHT

...nothing scares me more then Reavers. Nothing. From my first introduction to the show VIA the Reavers...I was horrified of them. While the first time I watched Bushwacked I wasn't too scared because of the whole oh-so-happy-to-finally-have-the-DVD's...but after that...

Now, if we're talking humans, I gotta say, I have to go with Badger. He's at the centerpeice of a chapter of a story a friend of mine and I are working on. (No, it will never get poasted...it's a mass crossover and a HORRABLE example of self insersion at it's most blatiant) not to mention my debates with Cryx about Badger's very EXISTENCE! (don't ask...long story. Actully, short, but bizzare)

HOWEVER...the Oprative is increadable. My favorite quote from the movie commentary is about him...sadly...I can't remember it terrablly clearly off the top of my head.

Gorramit.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:22 PM

KILGORETROUT

If we are counting the film it has to be the operative he just rules and is one of the most believable villians ive ever seen in a film his justification for his actions sound like the reasoning of a sane man in control who knows what he does and why he does it "i am a monster" scene is classic i was half convinced by his arguement and plus "this is a good death" scene is probaly the most creepy and gloriying way to die. Plus minor showing off but i know the actor who plays the operative so a he just happened to be a family friend and i didnt know he was in the film and then i saw it and i was pretty darn shocked anyway havent seem him since and i really want to drool on him or something so bit byest but he does rule like no other.
IF tv series alone has to be early crazy but just sane enought to be really crazy (if that makes sense).

"am i a lion" - early

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:18 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

Early. He's one of the few villains I want to really really really see come back. Yeah, it would be interesting to see a story arc involving a "rehabilitated" YoSaffBrig, and surely Niska, but He's in my mind by far the coolest. The other two are the Hands of Blue and The Operative, but its for sure Early.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:11 PM

EARTHTHATWASWOLF

I don't know if there actually was a poll at one time that I missed, but I'll give you my opinion anyways hehe

The Reavers get my vote as the best villains. They're truly terrifying. Early would have this slot, I mean he has a choice in what he does, in what he's become. I don't think the Reavers have that much soul or mind left to do so. But Early, he's so horrible I can't bring myself to give him the vote. Somehow in my mind that would be like a reward for him, just can't justify it.

So really I vote Reavers to spite the character Early, who should really get it.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:27 AM

COOKIEJAR

This is gorram hard. I think though that I will go with Jubal. He's the one villain that I both hate and love. I love how just strange but really facinating he is. His whole dialog about the room is brilliant. But I also hate him for his threating of Kaylee. I love Kaylee, and seeing that scene in the engine room almost made me cry. You should have seen me, I screaming at the tv (well monitor :-) "NO!!! OH GOD NO!!!!" That moment was so well written and acted it gets me every time. So Jubal wins my vote. Plus how can you forget, "Am I a lion?" Good times.

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Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:51 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Jubal Early: The guy who played Early (can't remember his name, sorry) was also in Good vS. Evil and guest starred in an episode of Brimstone. It's funny though, he always seems to appear in series that get cancelled.

YoSaffBridge: How can you not love the woman? And the crew's reactions to her are priceless.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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