War Stories and Zoe's choice by usagivindaloo

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

War Stories and Zoe's choice

POSTED BY: USAGIVINDALOO
UPDATED: Thursday, August 17, 2006 15:53
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Thursday, April 6, 2006 3:07 PM

Apologies if this has been raised before.

I just watched War Stories with the commentary after having watched it normally a few days before. For me, one of the most powerful moments is when Zoe arrives to barter with Niska and ends up choosing Wash (actually that entire act is very powerful, what with Wash telling her to run and the quiet, gentle comfort she offers him in the shuttle afterwards)

So here's a question for you. Do you think Zoe chose Wash out of romantic reasons or out of practical reasons? Do you think she just automatically chose him because he was her husband, or do you think she chose him because, as Alan suggested in the commentary, he is weak and was likely to die under the torture (ie she knew that Mal could handle it until rescue arrived)?

Alan seems to think the latter, that she made the decision based on who was more likely to survive. And far be it for me to argue with the actor himself. ^_^

I, however, like to think that her reasons were solely emotional and

. I believe this because in a lot of ways it brings the Wash/Zoe arc full circle. Wash was afraid (with some reason) that Zoe, in a lot of ways, was closer to Mal and cared more for him than her husband. Not that I think he doubts Zoe's love, only that he has reason to believe that Zoe is a soldier, MAL'S soldier, first and foremost. But if Zoe chose him solely out of a wife's desire to save her husband from pain... well, that's damned romantic, and I think it proves to Wash and the viewers that there are, indeed, some things more important to her than being a soldier and being loyal to Mal.

What do you guys think? Do you think she chose Wash to save her husband, or do you think she chose him out of a strategic decision?

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:43 PM

CHINDI

I think it was both. Zoe knows Mal can handle it; but Wash is her husband. She answers Niska before he even finishes asking...

no way she would leave Wash there.. and there is a chance that Mal could endure.. but even if he could not, I think Zoe would have still chosen Wash. He is her husband. She loves him.

Chindi

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:51 PM

FOLLOWMAL

I agree with Chindi.

She knew that Mal could survive and she knew that Wash could not.

She loves Wash, therefore first choice and then she'll come back for the Captain.. and if he doesn't survive.. she still has her husband.
Although, I believe that Zoe knew that Mal could survive.. I think she even knew that if he did die, Niska would revive him over and over.

It's equal parts love and practicality... like a lot of life.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:05 PM

USAGIVINDALOO

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

I agree with Chindi.

She knew that Mal could survive and she knew that Wash could not.

She loves Wash, therefore first choice and then she'll come back for the Captain.. and if he doesn't survive.. she still has her husband.
Although, I believe that Zoe knew that Mal could survive.. I think she even knew that if he did die, Niska would revive him over and over.

It's equal parts love and practicality... like a lot of life.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

Heh, I can see that for sure. I suppose I just wish it was more purely emotional, that Zoe made the choice based on her love alone rather than "knowing" that Mal would survive. I dunno, I think it makes it more romantic.

Luckily, of course, she got them both back in the end.

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:29 PM

NOSADSEVEN

I think it was out of loyalty. Both to Wash and to Mal. It's Mal who made the decision to take the job from Niska, to return the stolen meds, and to put his man through their engine. Mal had Niska's revenge coming, and he surely knew that. It probably rested Mal's conscience a bit, knowing that Wash was brought to safety - not just because Wash wasn't involved in the decision making, but also because of what Wash means to Zoe.

As for this scene bringing the Wash/Zoe arc full circle, I believe it absolutely does, but not in the way you suggested. I think the more significant arc is between Wash and the Mal/Zoe relationship. It's not as much that Wash knows that Zoe chose him over Mal, it's more that Wash now truly understands Zoe's loyalty to Mal. Mal is an integral part of who Zoe is, and for such a long time Wash didn't understand that aspect of his wife and felt threatened by it. Ironically, by enduring the ordeal with Mal, Wash has gained a more fudemental connection with his wife. The issue has been resolved because he realizes not that he won the competition, but that there never really was a competition.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 6:00 PM

EMBERS

Nosadseven:
I really agree with you...
I think Mal, as Captain, had the responsibility for the situation and the responsibility for his crew (so if Mal had had to choose he would have sent Wash back to the ship too).

Zoe's choice worked perfectly on every level:
as the Captain's second in command she knew that the crew had to be protected,
her husband wasn't strong enough to survive,
and Mal was not to be coddled...he must be allowed to be the leader in this, just as he was in gettng them into the situation in the first place.

I don't think it is necessary to have the scene only work in one way in order for it to be romantic, or funny (because it is such a typical scene...Zoe picking so fast really made me laugh even though it was just a painful and intense scene).

I don't like the torturing thing...but I do love this episode because of this great scene...
and the crew staging a rescue
and Jayne joining at the last moment
and River's shooting
and so many great moments.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 7:38 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Niska was not offering a choice - he had no intention of giving up Mal. Zoe's choice was to play Niska's mind games or start one of her own. Of course, she made the right choice, to counter the gambit, just as she did in receiving the severed ear with tenderness.

Embers: I agree that Minear's interpolated scenes of torture as entertainment threaten what is otherwise a pivotal episode.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 4:25 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Niska was not offering a choice - he had no intention of giving up Mal.

this is a really good point, to look at the situation from Niska's POV...
it shows how well the scene was written, because it really works well on so many levels.

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Of course, she made the right choice, to counter the gambit, just as she did in receiving the severed ear with tenderness.

that is funny, I didn't see her reaction as 'tenderness' as such... I saw her repressing any response because she refused to give Niska the satisfaction.
A lot of people complained about Zoe's response in 'Serenity' (er, are we still worrying about spoilers here? Oh well...just in case):

Select to view spoiler:

When Wash died Zoe didn't respond as emotionally as many fans thought she should, but I saw her reaction as totally consistant with what we had seen before from her, and this scene with Mal's ear was a perfect example, IMO. Zoe is not one to allow her emotions to have the upper hand... but I do think they catch up with her (you can only repress for so long).

man I'm longing for a sequel...
or just the next comic book.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Friday, April 7, 2006 5:13 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

It seems to me that Zoe would also feel that it wouldn't be fair to make Wash suffer for Mal's decision to renege on the train job. Even if it were, say, Kaylee who was captured with Mal, I think she might choose to rescue Kaylee first.

Indigo S.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 5:21 AM

SAB39

Good point, but Kaylee's a bad example. Anyone wouldn't rescue Kaylee first don't have a heart...

Jayne... well, Jayne...

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Friday, April 7, 2006 6:05 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by sab39:
Good point, but Kaylee's a bad example. Anyone wouldn't rescue Kaylee first don't have a heart...

Jayne... well, Jayne...

LOL
yes, choosing between Mal and Jayne...
Zoe might just have made a different choice.
LOL

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Friday, April 7, 2006 6:40 AM

WHOME

Quote:
Do you think Zoe chose Wash out of romantic reasons or out of practical reasons?

Yes.

It's nice to say, "Oh, she picked him because he's her husband." But Zoe's the practical sort, and the fact that she knows Mal can handle torture a little bit better would definitely have played into it. As a soldier, Mal probably would have had some training in how to handle being captured, and Zoe, of course, would know that.

The choice was pretty easy, really. If, say, Wash was still in good shape but Mal had been tortured nearly to death, then it would have been a different story.

Quote:
I didn't see her reaction as 'tenderness' as such... I saw her repressing any response because she refused to give Niska the satisfaction.

That's a good point, embers. He wanted her to fret and be emotionally torn, but she made her choice pretty calmly. And a little snarkily, too, I might add.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 7:44 AM

PURPLEBELLY

If Gina put a piece of my flesh inside her blouse, I'd consider it a tender gesture - is all I'm saying

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Friday, April 7, 2006 4:20 PM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:

Embers: I agree that Minear's interpolated scenes of torture as entertainment threaten what is otherwise a pivotal episode.

I'd have to disagree. While I know not everyone can handle torture, I think what's said during the torture scene is still important to the episode. And besides, that has to be one of the funniest moments in Firefly.

Wash: Screw you!

Mal: Get in line!

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Friday, April 7, 2006 10:16 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Torture can be so much fun if approached with a sense of humour. Free Charlie Grainer now!

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 2:29 AM

J6NGO1977

Zoe's choice huh? I like to think she chose Wash because of love. A hypathetical situation would be a friend from my team in work (7 people who I love very much who I would gladly stand up for in any situation)or my girlfriend where in a life and death situation and I had to choose. I would choose my girlfriend everytime. This is the woman who knows my every thought and my inner soul a woman I want to marry (if she will have me lol). So Zoe has that choice which is hard. She is loyal to both Mal and Wash to the death, however wash is her true love, the other half of her soul. It wasn't an easy choice but it was the only choice.

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Saturday, April 8, 2006 3:53 PM

DONCOAT

We can take this topic one step further.

Zoe went in hoping to buy both Mal and Wash. Niska quickly denied her that, but did allow her to take Wash out.

Now, some folks in this thread have suggested that she selected Wash out of love and/or knowledge that Mal could better cope with torture, and that she then intended to return to rescue Mal.

But did she? Her buyback strategy had failed (partly). As far as Zoe was concerned, that may well have been the end of it.

Let's not forget: it was Wash who made the decision to rescue Mal, not Zoe. So Zoe's decision was even more drastic. It wasn't "buy now, rescue later". It was "get out with what can be salvaged". Zoe made her choice for keeps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 1:39 PM

LADYKNIGHT

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
We can take this topic one step further.

Zoe went in hoping to buy both Mal and Wash. Niska quickly denied her that, but did allow her to take Wash out.

Now, some folks in this thread have suggested that she selected Wash out of love and/or knowledge that Mal could better cope with torture, and that she then intended to return to rescue Mal.

But did she? Her buyback strategy had failed (partly). As far as Zoe was concerned, that may well have been the end of it.

Let's not forget: it was Wash who made the decision to rescue Mal, not Zoe. So Zoe's decision was even more drastic. It wasn't "buy now, rescue later". It was "get out with what can be salvaged". Zoe made her choice for keeps.

I've never really thought of it that way. I've always thought it was a combonation of "Mal could survive longer" and "I love Wash" This makes sence and really makes her decision so much more about Wash then her being a soldier.

I still think that the Mal can endure more thing came into play quite a bit. But...perhaps...not quite so much as I origionally thought.

- I have a friend who INSISTS Zoe choosing Wash wasn't stratigicly sound. Now her perspective makes sense. Then again...Wash IS the pilot...

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Monday, April 10, 2006 9:45 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Okay, here's the thing that makes me think it was purely a decision of the heart. She doesn't pause, doesn't consider, doesn't hesitate, she choses the man she loves. She does it all stoicly because that's how she handles things, esspecially in enemy territory, but she doesn't stop to think about it. And, something that a lot of people aren't taking into account is the exchange between her and Wash once they get to the shuttle. He's talking about Mal being crazy and refusing to break. Okay, so *maybe* she knew Mal was like that and could handle it better, but she seemed a little taken aback to me. I don't think she was sure about Mal. She probably *was* sure that Wash *couldn't* take it and didn't want to think of him being in pain. The whole episode was about Wash and Zoe, and him feeling that she sided with Mal all the time. Her choice was proof that she really was devoted to him. It even tied in with Mal's comment about loyalties being split.

Select to view spoiler:

And...just for the record, I think her reaction to Wash's death in the movie was perfect. Begging him to get up, she was desperate, screaming, and obviously in pain before she tamped it down. And the way she threw herself into the fight afterwards was very telling. She was basically suicidally seeking revenge and a way to unleash her grief. It was very passionate, very in keeping with her being a warrior woman, and it makes me cry just to think about it. and her line at the end, "She's tore up plenty, but she'll fly true." I found very touching. Really her way of saying "I feel like hell right now, but I'll keep going. Keep flying." Yeah, it was a little understated, but what else do we expect?

*************************************************
Bible's broken. Doesn't make sense.

Zhu fu ni, mei-mei

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Monday, April 10, 2006 11:27 PM

FLETCH2

Appearence is everything to Niska, he has an almost pathological interest in his reputation. In the "Train Job" he tells Mal that Mal was developing a reputation and that was why Niska had selected him to do the job.

When Mal didn't follow though, when he killed Niska's man he damaged Niska's reputation by standing up to him. There was no way that Niska could let that stand.

So Niska needed revenge to regain his reputation, in addition he needed to make an example of Mal, to show other low life's what happens to people that mess with Niska. So when Niska went after Mal he already had a very long and very painful death worked out for him. Wash was not part of that plan, he was if you like an unexpected bonus.

When Niska refused the money Zoe knew two things.

1) He was going to kill Mal. No amount of money would pay him back for the loss of face.

2) Consequently Mal couldn't be ransomed, Wash on the other hand could be bought back because he was an extra and unimportant to Niska.

3) Niska had good reason to keep Mal alive and in agony for as long as he could, because he wants to show people just how bad it is to cross Niska. On the other hand Wash is a nobody, Niska wouldn't care if he killed him or not. Consequently Mal actually had a better chance of staying alive a few more days than Wash had. Zoe knew that if she took Wash now she could save him, she could not save Mal, but she had a couple of days to try and work out a rescue.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:13 PM

ELOISA

I personally go with the combination of emotion and logic. I had, though, wondered earlier about the fact that Zoe seems to treat the ransom/rescue attempt as a oneshot chance of getting the men to safety and Wash's flying skills are absolutely pivotal to the second attempt. I'm not quite with Doncoat in thinking Zoe didn't have a hope of getting Mal back when she took Wash out - consider the way she tells Wash in the shuttle that they basically have time to think of something else because Niska won't kill Mal immediately. I doubt she was using some kind of reverse psychology to get him to think of a route to fly in because she couldn't see how.... though anything is possible.

***
http://forums.ffonline.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Creative Writing

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:47 AM

VTBROWNCOAT

Zoe is extremely smart and a real tactical thinker. While on her way to speak to Niska with the offer to buy back the men, she's studying the layout, counting heads, assessing everything.

She's already planning for the assault she hopes she doesn't have to stage.

When Niska tries his mind game to make her choose, she immediatly chooses Wash. While love would have played a role in the decision as well as Mal probably being the one more likely to survive longer she also recognized that to get both men back she would need Wash.

Strange as it may sound, the chance of success in getting the second man back would have been lessened if she had chosen Mal.

While Mal would go back for Wash without a doubt, the rescue plan (silently drifting up to the skyplex) wouldn't have worked without Wash. Besides, Mal clearly lacks the personality for stealthiness (Serenity pilot). Mal would have led, there would have been no element of suprise. And Wash would be dead.

To Zoe, Wash was a tactical asset in this instance. No one else could have flown Serenity in the assault on the skyplex. In addition to being her husband.

Oh, I got heathens aplenty right
here.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:54 AM

PENGUIN

Zoe had no choice to make...she's married to Wash and without hesitation chose him.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:11 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by VTbrowncoat:
Zoe is extremely smart and a real tactical thinker. While on her way to speak to Niska with the offer to buy back the men, she's studying the layout, counting heads, assessing everything.

It's obvious; she didn't expect Niska to let Mal go.

On the other hand, the snarky way she didn't let Niska gloat over forcing her to chose, probably cost Mal an ear (at least temporarily). Clearly Niska wasn't thinking of this until Zoe interrupted him and turned it into a contest of sang-froid. Point of interest: it transliterates as "cold blood", and means "the ability to stay calm in a difficult or dangerous situation".

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:51 AM

ROCKXWL

Quote:
Originally posted by VTbrowncoat:

To Zoe, Wash was a tactical asset in this instance. No one else could have flown Serenity in the assault on the skyplex. In addition to being her husband.

I like all that logic and agree with it. It was something I had never thought of before. Besides the above, Zoe would have chosen Wash whether or not they were married. I don't think her emotional attachment to him was a factor in any way at all because that is not how Zoe thinks in those types of situations. She is able to remove herself emotionally from any situation as is essential in times of war.

If she chose Wash out of her love for him then when he bites it in "Serenity" she wouldn't have been so believable in her reaction, or rather her lack of one. Zoe is a warrior in every sense of the word. Logic always rules above passion.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:33 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.

I just wanted to point out that Mal was in the process of escaping at the time of the rescue. Yes, the rescue was the distraction he needed; but, he would have siezed any opportunity. Wash was actually a liability in that capacity. A liability Zoe removed from the equation and applied as an asset to her rescue operation.
Zoe knows better than anyone how tough Mal is. She did the right thing for both men.

22

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Saturday, July 22, 2006 10:14 AM

LISSA37

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
We can take this topic one step further.

Zoe went in hoping to buy both Mal and Wash. Niska quickly denied her that, but did allow her to take Wash out.

Now, some folks in this thread have suggested that she selected Wash out of love and/or knowledge that Mal could better cope with torture, and that she then intended to return to rescue Mal.

But did she? Her buyback strategy had failed (partly). As far as Zoe was concerned, that may well have been the end of it.

Let's not forget: it was Wash who made the decision to rescue Mal, not Zoe. So Zoe's decision was even more drastic. It wasn't "buy now, rescue later". It was "get out with what can be salvaged". Zoe made her choice for keeps.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

I looove what you said here. How true it is. Another reason I love this episode, among the many: Wash gets to play the hero for a little bit.

I <3 Wash.

As for my take on Zoe's choice... I see how some people think she might've just used logic to do what was best. It makes sense to say Wash might not have lived while Mal could hold his own. It makes sense that Wash was a bit of a fish out of water and perhaps a danger to any plan Mal (or Zoe) might come up with for escape (or rescue, if Zoe).

But, I guess I'm too much of a romantic to believe she didn't pick Wash based on her love for him and her devotion to him. I just can't truly believe that it was logic speaking when she, without hesitation, chose her beloved husband. I just can't. I believe it was an act of love. <3

Zoe's tough and she certainly is a warrior, but she's not without a heart. Even the toughest and most independent people need love and their loved ones in their life, I believe. And, I think that love is what motivated Zoe to make her choice.

*****
"I'm a leaf on the wind..." - Wash

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Saturday, July 22, 2006 11:56 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Probably one of the greatest strengths of Firefly as a series, and the episode War Stories in this particular instance, is that the writing and characterizations are so complex and intricate that almost every opinion expressed on this thread is true to a certain extent. Well, except for this one:

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
…Minear's interpolated scenes of torture as entertainment threaten what is otherwise a pivotal episode.

That would only apply if Tim Minear wrote it, but he didn't. Cheryl Cain did.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:42 AM

WEICHI

War Stories is my favorite espisode, for reasons I have stated in other threads.

As for Zoe's choice, I think everyone has mentioned factors in the calculus - Mal can take it, Mal would have wanted that choice made, Niska would not have given up Mal anyway.

This was a recon mission. Gina Torres is brilliant in this sequence - watch her eyes, she is totally planning phase 2 of this operation from the moment she walks in. She has a job to do, and playing Niska's game is not a part of it. She is going to get out of there, and give Niska the least amount of pleasure doing it.

Don't think love played a huge part here - may have made the correct choice easier, but that is about it.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:48 AM

PURPLEBELLY

^^ Check your sources. Cain is the credited writer, but the interpolations were by Minear.

Quote:
Minear in Cinefantastique - 10th December 2003:
We brought back Niska from “The Train Job.” This was another late script that we had to sort of pitch in on at the end of the day. I remember Joss wrote the teaser and the first act and it was a really long teaser. I remember looking at the cut and saying, “The teaser’s kind of boring with all of these people talking. What if we move this into the teaser and made this the first scene of act one and dropped this all together?” He totally went for it. And in the interrogation scene where Mal and Wash are being tortured, I took a pass at that and was trying to write Wash as sort of Woody Allen.

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Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:02 PM

TERRI

I'd go so far as to say we don't really know what Zoe's intentions were. Sure, Wash makes the first steps to going after Mal, but I have a distinct feeling that is what Zoe had in mind. Her 'leave no man behind' mentality that is still prevalent in the movie would certainly have played a role. I'm not so ready to dismiss off hand the fact that she would be going back. I don't even see how someone could seriously suggest that going back for Mal wasn't in her immediate plans. What would be the point of carefully noting the layout to Niska's lair, were she not going back for Rd. 2? Zoe's a smart gal, and I'm positive that she had something that Mal didn't always plan for, a plan B. In fact, I could take it one step further and say that her taking what was part of Mal's ear back to the ship, indicated her intentions. Wash was in an fragile emotional state, she would have wanted him to feel like the hero, even in the tense situation they were in. The bottom line seems to be this: Would Zoe, having just rescued her husband, Wash, have risked his life, and her own, in addition to everyone else's on the ship to go save Mal, even with the idea that wouldn't be succesful, that they would lose the ship, and the crew, and possibly be killed or worse, caught and tortured by Niska? You bet she would, probably wouldn't even give it a second thought.

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Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:20 PM

JOSSISAGOD

I think it was a bit of both, Zoe loved Wash and didn't want to see him harmed, but at the same time, I think she new Mal could handle the torture for a longer period. I think Zoe's decision was based more on her love for Wash than the fact that he's less accustomed to pain.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Tuesday, August 8, 2006 7:46 PM

TERRI

Okay, I'm soooo cereal you guys, this is my last ranting about the matter. I think I'm going to break it down even further (IMHO). I think I'm bothered by the fact that the question becomes not who can last longer under Niska's torture, but who does Zoe love more. And I don't know if I think that she loves Wash more. Maybe I'm missing something, but I come away with the distinct impression that while Zoe loves Wash and Mal differently (feelings wise), she loves them both the same (amount wise), not really holding one above the other. I don't really see Zoe forsaking all others for Wash, just as I see her following her heart and romantic love with Wash. So, that changes it back into a temporal thing. Maybe most of you think I'm dead off, but that's what I reckon.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:02 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

I was watching Zoe's face the last time I watched this ep, when Wash is saying "Bastard's not going to get days". It occurred to me that Zoe had always intended to go back for Mal militarily if the payment didn't work, but what caught her a little offguard was Wash's determination to do it with her.

I think she originally thought that, having gotten Wash, she would send all of them (except maybe Jayne) off to hide somewhere safe, and try to go in herself (with Jayne, if he was willing). When Wash indicated he wanted to go in, she had a flash of fear of losing him -- he doesn't seem that adept at combat -- but she wasn't going to stop him from doing something he needed to do.

So she really makes two choices. First, to save Wash, and second, to let him risk his life to do something right.

Indigo S.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:14 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I think it was an emotionally, practical and loyal decision for all the reasons my brilliant co-browncoats have mentioned.

Even Wash admitted that he would not have survived, and Mal would not have let her choose him (Mal). Plus OF COURSE she would choose her husband.

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:26 PM

DONCOAT

Okay, I'm totally buying the Plan B idea. Zoe's casing the joint is a pretty convincing piece of evidence.

Of course, she might have done that even if she was planning for contingencies that might occur on that first visit -- say, if she got a chance to grab Niska himself as a hostage and get them both out that way.

But I concede that it's more likely she had a second assault in the back of her mind all along.

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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Monday, August 14, 2006 8:33 AM

WORDSLINGER

It might be that hopeless romantic in me but i think it wsa her love for him.

If I saw my girlfriend beatten to a pulp and (If i had one) army buddy that i trusted and cared for, I'd pick my girlfriend.

I know I would not be able to bear witness to the suffering of my loved one.

But like I said, that might be the hopeless romantic in me.

I am a large, semi-muscular man, I can handle it...

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 3:53 PM

QWERTYUIOPASD

well, one thing wordslinger, you're not a battle-hardedn commando B*tch.

Mal and Zoe knew Niska, and with both Mal and Wash kidnapped, I think Zoe anticipated NIska making her choose. so as a way of defeating him, she decided to decide quite beforehand. so there may have been some conflict before she entered, but I doubt it. Mal is a solider, Wash isn't. Wash is her husband, Mal isn't. obvoiusly it wasn't purely practical, she loves Wash, but would ANYONE leave Wash to be tortured and let Mal live?

___________________________________________________
"Do what you want to, but know what you should do"

Blarg!
I think Blarg means yes.... does blarg mean yes?
Blarg.
yes! I'm so good! unless blarg means no. I don't think it does... am i right?
Blarg.

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