rewatching War Stories... by embers

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

rewatching War Stories...

POSTED BY: EMBERS
UPDATED: Thursday, October 5, 2006 07:23
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VIEWED: 6069
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Friday, August 18, 2006 4:29 AM

Last night my friend and I watched 'War Stories'...(she has never seen Firefly before and we are watching one per week)

I had warned her that it was rough, and hard to watch...but it was necessary because there is a lot of character development that is needed for future episodes.
At the end she said she really did appreciate the theme:
because we really did learn a lot about the 'true self' of all of the characters (it was what Niska wanted to learn according to the teachings of Schamue, but he ended up being held over the volcano of his own space station's generator/engine before the show ended - and we learned he runs away).

We learned a lot more about Zoe’s strength and stoicism
About Book’s knowledge of tracking and his willingness to fight
About Kaylee’s fearful behavior in face of danger (later played out more in OiS)

And of course, most important of all: the information about River's training (the show starts off by Simon saying there was a specific purpose to what they did to River...and the end we see her shooting those men with pin point accuracy...).

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Friday, August 18, 2006 6:09 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

I'd never thought of the episode that way before, but you're right. We do learn new things about a lot of the characters, and we get to see how they react under pressure - the doc staying calm and keeping his true feelings down, Book being quite scary, Kaylee unable to handle violence...

Dammit! Now I want to watch it again, and I'm stuck at work!

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Friday, August 18, 2006 6:37 AM

SHROUDED

I agree; you also get to see a little more into Wash and how he isn't his normal cool, calm self all the time - especially ater being tortured.

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 6:45 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

What we learn about Mal is more important. You learn about his generousity to others even in the most trying circumstances. Mal doesn't really care about his own safety - he cares about others. This is also shown in OOG - Mal is not afraid to die - but he refuses to let his crew.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

one of the Forsaken TM

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Friday, August 18, 2006 9:58 AM

SHINYTRINKET

My friend and I call it the "Wash grows a pair" episode. Now if they'd only given him a bigger gun...

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If you eat a live toad in the morning, nothing worse will happen to you all day.

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Friday, August 18, 2006 1:32 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
What we learn about Mal is more important. You learn about his generousity to others even in the most trying circumstances. Mal doesn't really care about his own safety - he cares about others. This is also shown in OOG - Mal is not afraid to die - but he refuses to let his crew.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

one of the Forsaken TM

Interesting point on Mal... it's almost as though he's stopped living since the battle of Serenity and chooses to live through others instead. Like he's given up on himself but can't quite give up on those he's close to.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Friday, August 18, 2006 2:13 PM

KURYA

heyyyy
thanx so much for posting these comments embers & desktophippie and FMF and others! I totally did not see that episode in that way..... its amazing after like 1 year of being a fan I still learn new things!!! I will just have to re-watch the episode again.
Prakash

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Friday, August 18, 2006 2:28 PM

DROCCULARI

Good Thread. I especially like the bit about Niska getting held over a volcano.
One of the things we learn about Zoe is how inscrutable she can be. Did she pick Wash because he was her husband, or because she was already planning a return rescue mission and needed his skill to pull it off? I figure it was some of both, but she doesn't let on.

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:06 AM

EMBERS

I was wondering, Niska cared so much about reputation...what do you think his would be if and when he showed up again?
He ran away saving his own skin, and left all his men to die for nothing (because I'm pretty sure they all ended up dead or dying by the time our BDHs got Mal home).
So who would work for Niska again, with his new 'reputation'?
I'm sure he has plenty of money (probably put in his wive's name for tax purposes).....

just wondering.

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:15 AM

SHROUDED

You're got a good point there, Embers, but I assume Mal simply reused Niska's own tatics against him, with the Shan Yu "discovering the true self." Niska's always had this reputation of being a coldhearted, inhumane torturer, but when put up against some form of danger (which, I assume, he hasn't had the chance to experience before, or no one got it in their minds to have him experience it) he crawls away like, as Jayne would say, an itty bitty bug.

When you can't run, you crawl, and when you can't do that you sit still and watch episodes of Firefly.

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 5:36 AM

AGENTRUSCO

This has always been one of my favorite episodes. I'm not sure why, because it is rather harsh and Wash is not his normal self most of it. He's so "angsty" at the begining. But I love the development of each character.

I love River's parroting of Kaylee's earlier line "no power in the verse can stop me." It so like her, but kinda creepy indeed.

Seeing Kaylee with the huge-ass pistol always kinda breaks my heart. Almost the same feeling I don't get when seeing Wash with the sissy gun. That does make me laugh though.

I love Zoe's unflinching behavior when set with a "choice." It is oft debated whether she chose Wash because she knew he was weak or because she couln't bear to leave him. I prefer to think the latter, but I'm sure there's a bit of both.

I love how Mal keeps Wash alive, but after Wash is gone, basically gives up and dies.

I love Book's reaction to the severed ear. That is the only time in the series that he speaks Chinese, if I'm not mistaken. And its not a nice preacherish phrase either.

What I love most about this episode is Wash's shirt. Seriously. Em... yah.

Good thread.

______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:24 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRusco:

I love Zoe's unflinching behavior when set with a "choice." It is oft debated whether she chose Wash because she knew he was weak or because she couln't bear to leave him. I prefer to think the latter, but I'm sure there's a bit of both.

well I always felt that Zoe picked Wash because the situation was of the Captain's making, not Wash's...
Mal decided to do business w/Niska in the Train Job,
and Mal decided to back out on the deal...
Wash was only a member of the crew, and shouldn't have to pay the price for those choices.

But then (in another thread a year or so ago) someone pointed out that Niska was just kidding around anyway, and Zoe knew that; there is no way Niska would let go of Mal. Niska never really wanted Wash (who had only a reputation as a pilot), he wanted Mal...

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Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:14 PM

AGENTRUSCO

Quote:
But then (in another thread a year or so ago) someone pointed out that Niska was just kidding around anyway, and Zoe knew that; there is no way Niska would let go of Mal. Niska never really wanted Wash (who had only a reputation as a pilot), he wanted Mal...

Indeed that is true. However, I can't help but believe that Zoe picked Wash cos she's married to him. Call me a romantic. No don't. It's not a bit true. It's just all in the character is all. The depth.

______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

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Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:23 PM

GRYFFYD

Personaly, I thought it was one of the funniest eps. I ever did see. But I s'pose you're right. I bought the series and watched them all one after another, it was probably the most informative, sans "Out of Gas" and a few others, when we get into charater development.

Gryffyd

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Saturday, September 30, 2006 4:35 PM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...

This is one of my absolute favorite episodes, so thanks for posting a thread about it.

Zoe was unhesitant, I believe, for a number of reasons. First, she did not want Niska to witness the process of choosing. He would eat it up, enjoying her pain to the fullest. Second, Mal stood a much better chance of surviving the torture for a greater length of time. Enough perhaps to mount the inevitable rescue. Third, she's Mal's second out of loyalty. She's Wash's wife out of love. Love makes us do crazy things.

I do enjoy the many revelations in this episode. River's obvious proficiency with firearms, as well as Book's. Wash taking a serious, balls to the wall stand, as well as his unfounded jealousy of Mal and Zoe's relationship. (the scene where they intend to "get it on" is possibly the funniest scene in the Firefly 'verse) Niska's spineless retreat. He's nothing without his hired muscle. Jayne stepping into what he's made clear is a suicidal mission.

A very graphic, poignant, and revealing episode, not just entertaining fluff, like most of the garbage on the Cortex nowadays.

"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

Rob O.

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Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:24 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
I'm sure he has plenty of money (probably put in his wive's name for tax purposes).....

You think he had more than one wife, then?

(Sorry, I had to say something)
I'm sure Niska's reputation was damaged a bit. As with so many things, it would have been interesting to see what happened. No doubt he would have blamed Mal and Co. for his "fall from grace" in the world of organized crime, and after he fought his way back in to some extent, he would go after them a bit more viciously than before, I think. Probably would have popped up again in season two or three.

This is also one of my favorite episodes. I remember it had to grow on me, bcause the first time I watched it it was really the torture that stuck with me (that and the fact that I thought Niska was possibly the least interesting villain ever; a bully with a weak spine, oooooooo), but then the next time I could really watch and enjoy the episode, see the strength of the characters, ponder all the little details that makes the show so great in general.
As for Zoe's choice, a lot of people argue logic; she knew Niska wouldn't let Mal go, she knew Wash would break before Mal would, she knew Mal had brought the situation down on them through his choices, etc etc etc.... BUT. But she was so swift in her choice, no hesitation, and really not enough time to think "Ok, well, Wash will break before the Captain, and we might have time to get him out later and Niska isn't going to let him go anyway..." and on like that. To me it hit a very poignant note in Zoe's character. She saw someone she loved suffering, and she was not going to leave him behind. She was given the choice to take one of them, and her visceral reaction was "Him!" No time for thought, no hesitation. She wasn't going to give Niska the chance to play with her, and it can be argued that there was logic to her choice, which she probably thought of as she was half-carrying Wash to the shuttle, but her initial choice was from her emotions. Zoe and Wash are my favorite ever TV relationship, and I thought that moment between them was just gorgeous.

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude!

Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Gautama Siddharta

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Monday, October 2, 2006 6:04 AM

RIMGIRL

This is my favourite episode. I agree that we learn so much about every character.

Don't forget Jayne. He says its suicide and smells a lot of if but he's right there, leading the charge. He is much more loyal to Mal than many give him credit for. Plus I love his delivery of "Could be he harbours some resentment, us putting his man through our engine."

I love the quick cut of Mal shaking his head when Wash hesitates about leaving with Zoe. He knows that they need to get out. And I love the commentary when Alan tells Nathan that the hardest thing on the series was to walk away, "with you still screaming like that." It says so much about how close the cast was.
______________________________________________

I have 9 heroes.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 7:23 AM

SMARTBUTDUMBBLONDE

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRusco:

What I love most about this episode is Wash's shirt. Seriously. Em... yah.
______________________________
I cannot abide useless people.

or in my case, Wash's shirt being open...

This is by far my favourite ep, none of the others come close for me. And I love the commentry too, so funny

***************
Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics.
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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