When Simon gets hit . . . by Starrbaby

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

When Simon gets hit . . .

POSTED BY: STARRBABY
UPDATED: Sunday, August 19, 2007 07:05
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7769
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Thursday, April 26, 2007 4:49 AM

Why is it, that I get a case of the giggles and smugness when Simon gets punched? I'm not a fan of violence, and I tolerate Simon's character. However, I have to fight the urge to point at the screen and laugh "Meh-heh" like Nelson off the Simpsons.

I've also wanted everyone from teh crew to get a crack at him. I'd especially like to see Kaylee deck him after he says something stupid.

Wow, I must have some supressed anger issues. lol

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:45 AM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

I don't really know about wanting everyone to punch Simon...but I do find it kinda funny how he gets punched in the face more than almost anyone else, and he's not even the one who does the dangerous stuff! Haha...poor Simon...

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"I don't want the world to see me, 'cause I don't think that they'd understand."

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:20 AM

STARRBABY

Like I said, I don't know WHY I think it's funny when it happens. But I do.

It just seems that if someone's gonna get slugged, it's him. I wouldn't find it too wired if two random people were fighting, and he was just standing there .. .and POW . . .he gets it in the kisser.

You know those "kick me" signs people hang on people's backs? I think Simon has a "punch me" sign on him.

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:17 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

Oh no...don't hit the Simon!

Hee...

Starrbaby!!! I haven't seen you in forever! I shall have to email you just to catch up after I get back from Iraq!

I have news...Muwahahah...a...

Well, it's not really news if you even seen me around any lately. I'm not so quiet about it.

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

http://manwithpez.livejournal.com

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:27 AM

STARRBABY

It's hard to find time to get on here with two 1 1/2 year olds and one one the way. (We're going to name her "oops")

I've stalked your LJ a couple of times, but I'd love to hear from you. Be safe in Iraq, and I'll send good thoughts your way.

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:50 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Well, Simon doesn't understand the world he's thrown into, doesn't have a lifetime of experience dodging punches like most of the crew (or cool punch dodging superpowers like his sister) and doesn't come accross as hardened like Mal or physically agressive like Jayne. Stands to reason he winds up on the business end of the punches more than the others. He's more likely to say the wrong thing (accusing Mal of working for the Alliance in the pilot), more likely to be threatened by others (was threatened by Stitch, repeatedly threatened by Jayne) and less likely to recognise that threat in time.

Can't say I enjoy seeing him getting punched! Maybe because I admire the character a lot and think he's a hell of a lot tougher, braver and more selfless than people give him credit for. And Kaylee wouldn't thump him, she's not the agressive type. When she's hurt she retreats and stays quiet, although that may change as she gets older.

I have to say, for someone whon had a pampered upbringing Simon copes with violence remarkably well. He's more than willing to stand up to Mal and Jayne (which doesn't help him avoid the punches) and while he only gets involved in fights when someone needs him (like helping to rescue Mal from Niska's space station) he's always shown to be very calm and collected in dangerous situations - calmly delivering a baby while a gunfight raged around him in 'Heart of Gold' for example.

Banners, Avatars, LJ Icons and other fun stuff at www.desktophippie.com

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:08 PM

ROMANCEGURU

I always feel bad for him. Mal's a bit punch happy.

*************************************************
What we need's a diversion. I say Zoe gets nekkid.

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 1:34 PM

DONCOAT

Well, he did get to deck Mal in the BDM.

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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 1:49 PM

STARRBABY

See, Hippie, that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. I agree that he's alot tougher than meets the eye. He's very cool under pressure. So what is it that I find so funny about him getting decked?

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Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:06 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Ooh, I thought I was the only one, glad I'm not. Then again I was never a Simon fan and still am not, however I do admit to gaining some respect for him in Bushwacked, and I was starting to sloooowly warm to him in the later episodes, then the movie came out and my dislike turned straight to hate. Sorry Simon fans, but I would have rathered he died instead of Wash. Maybe if there's a sequel.

And my laughing at Simon getting hit is similiar to watching Tasha Yar dying, it's pathetic, and sad and just hilariously funny. You know the only show that has made me feel for people I dislike when they die is Heroes, don't know how they do it but the three people I disliked the most (Eden, Simone, an Issac) had deaths that made me sniffle. Amazing show.

Now let's get rid of Niki. Maybe I'll laugh that time. Yes, I can be sadistic.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm the leader of the free world,
I'm the most important person there is."

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:29 PM

SINGATE

Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Now let's get rid of Niki. Maybe I'll laugh that time. Yes, I can be sadistic.

I'm so with you on that one. Swear to god I may even do the happy dance if they off her.

As far as Simon goes it is understandable that many enjoy seeing him take a punch. After all he is smug, pretty, and a doctor. Most people would say he needs to be knocked down a few pegs every so often.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:56 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
As far as Simon goes it is understandable that many enjoy seeing him take a punch. After all he is smug, pretty, and a doctor. Most people would say he needs to be knocked down a few pegs every so often.

Jubal Early seemed to think so, anyway.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:57 PM

REGINAROADIE

I dunno. I'm the opposite. I hated seeing Simon be a punching bag in the series, mainly because Simon was the character I identify with the most. You know how all viewers project themselves onto characters that have some of the same characteristics as you do? Well, I identified with Simon a lot, thus he was my favorite character. So it kinda unsettled me when he'd get punched beat up.

One thing that I absolutely loved about Simon in the movie was that Joss toughened him up. That when he got punched, he punched back at least.

**************************************************
"Have you ever fired two guns whilst jumping through the air?"
"No."
"Have you ever fired ONE gun whilst jumping through the air?"

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Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:44 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
As far as Simon goes it is understandable that many enjoy seeing him take a punch. After all he is smug, pretty, and a doctor. Most people would say he needs to be knocked down a few pegs every so often.
Jubal Early seemed to think so, anyway.

OH! So it's really peoples' insecurity that has them react with aggression to someone accomplished and noble?

That'd explain it. Someone sets a high standard so he needs to be "knocked down" because it makes others feel bad.

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Sunday, April 29, 2007 12:24 PM

STARRBABY

Quote:
Someone sets a high standard so he needs to be "knocked down" because it makes others feel bad.

That may be it. Actually, I think I may have figured out what the deal is with *me* getting akickout of seeing him get whacked. On a similar (yet different)plane as RR, I see alot of myself in Simon. However, I see my BAD qualities in him. I have my good qualities, and so does Simon, but they are not even similar. however, our bad qualitiles are identical.

Perhaps I'd like to beat the crap out of the uppity rich snob in me who thinks I'm smarter than everyone else.

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Sunday, April 29, 2007 3:08 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

I just like to see him get beat because I dislike him, and he was and is an ass to Jayne and Mal.

More Simon beatings, I need a chuckle.

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Sunday, April 29, 2007 8:39 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:

Perhaps I'd like to beat the crap out of the uppity rich snob in me who thinks I'm smarter than everyone else.

But is Simon actually an uppity rich snob?

We know he's no longer rich and he never acts as if he is, demanding special treatment or such.

He has one moment of pretty justifiable snapping temper, which is sadly directed at the wrong person (Kaylee in "Safe") but Mal has that pretty much all the time.

The only thing I can think of that might be "uppity" is that he tends to second-guess Mal's decisions, but that is also very understandable because Simon's priotity (River) is not the same as Mal's priority (Serenity's crew), and until "Safe" he doesn't have much reason to really trust Mal.

After "Safe", Simon's second-guessing goes down quite a bit because Mal proved trustworthy. And I don't think Simon can be blamed for being upset that Mal is taking River on a job...

I don't don't see where this perceived arrogance is going on?

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Monday, April 30, 2007 2:21 AM

CERES

Giles was always the one who got knocked out in Buffy so I think it might be Joss who thinks the educated, unemotional one should take a few knocks. Whether that’s because it shows they’re a better person for being able to accept it or not I don’t know.

................................

You can question the meaning of life on a floaty
island of your own for a while.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 4:28 AM

STARRBABY

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
[B
I don't don't see where this perceived arrogance is going on?

That's something neat about Joss' creations. Different Chaterers percive them differently, but the different viewers perceive them differently also.

That's not very common in TV land.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 5:13 AM

AGENTROUKA

It does appear that a large part of perception is projection.

Do you have a moment where you feel he is particularly snobby/uppity and arrogant, anyway? Because part of me is really curious to at least try and understand, since a lot of people ascribe these characteristics to both Simon and Inara, and I can't help but think it's a presumptive leap from wealth to arrogance that's not really supported by the show.

Same as the leap from Core world childhood = boring. Core world parties = stiff and no fun. Core world people = repressed, mindless and arrogant. There's a lot of black and white thinking that comes across in fanfiction and dicussion threads that surprises me.

And then I wonder what the root of that gut reaction is. It's the stillborn anthropologist mutation inside of me.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 5:55 AM

STARRBABY

I can understand your annoyance. I feel the same way in "real life" when people assume that becasue people are wealthy that they are uppity jerks with everything handed to them on a silver platter. Not that they worked hard and are good people.

Anyway, back to the task at hand - Other than his gripe fest about Serenity in Safe, I don't really think he *said* anything to make me feel he was uppity. However, at the begining of the series it was more facial expressions and non-verbal reaction to the crew. I expected him to whip out hand sanitizer after shaking people's hands.

He seemed to outgrow this as the series progressed - as shown when he'd lounge on the couch w/ Kaylee or unbutton the top button of his shirt and roll up his sleeves to play cards.

As mentioned before, I don't despise Simon. He has many good qualities. I'm also not usually terribly entertained by violence. However, for some reason (that I'm trying to find out on this thread) I find it *funny* when he gets hit. Perhaps it's that it messes up his hair, or maybe it's the way that Sean plays Simon and flails a little bit when he gets decked. (I'm sure "simon" would be mortified if he knew he flailed, which makes it funny when Sean does it)

I find more humor that satisfaction in it.

Perhaps Mistressahara can elaborate more and giveyou a better example of Simon's arrogance. She seems to dislike him more than I. With thought, I've decided that my glee in violence towards him is more humor based than animosity based.

*Wow - sorry that was so long. I sort of rambled while I brainstormed my thoughts and my stream of conciousness*

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Monday, April 30, 2007 6:30 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:
Perhaps it's that it messes up his hair, or maybe it's the way that Sean plays Simon and flails a little bit when he gets decked. (I'm sure "simon" would be mortified if he knew he flailed, which makes it funny when Sean does it)

I'm totally gonna go watch these scenes again - I hadn't noticed the flailing, but I can see your point... and it sounds wicked funny!

You know, I keep thinking of some movie reviewer talking about Julia Roberts, how she always plays these characters who gets their feelings hurt and we, the audience, *love* that. She does this silent, classy suffering that makes us feel for her and keep watching until she gets the happiness she deserves... (remember, the reviewer said this, not me! I'm not much for Julia, but I can see the point.)

Simon has that. He takes the abuse quietly, though he doesn't really deserve it, it's just the circumstances. It makes us want to see him get some comfort.

As for it being funny, part of Joss's genius is taking an overdone characterization (the nobly suffering rich boy with more depth then the other characters realize) and playing with our expectations. Maybe even making a bit of funny in the middle of a tense dramatic situation. I'm not sure how Joss does it, but he does.

Yeah, hard to talk about this without getting all serious and wordy, huh?

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 6:42 AM

LAWMAN

what's with all the simon bashing. i think he's a decent fella, top 3 in his class, he ain't weak, and that ain't nothing. shoot, he is the best dressed in firefly series. and not that i have a man crush on the doc, but he looks to be in incredible shape in the bdm. ok, so he's abit of a social ignoramus. but jayne ain't gonna give any etiquette tips in the verse.
consider that his own parents basically abandoned simon and river.

i'm a traditionalist

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Monday, April 30, 2007 7:24 AM

STARRBABY

Okay, I need to clarify my point again. This isn't meant to be a "I hate Simon" thread. All off our BDH have good points and bad points.

My reason for starting this thread is to figure out why it's so *FUNNY* when Simon gets hit. Whatever it is also makes it so much fun for the other chracters to play mean pranks on him such as Kaylee tricking him into thinking they'd slept together . . .or Mal telling him that Kaylee was dead. If life were a slumber party, Simon's knickers would be in the freezer in half a second.

Why is that?

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Monday, April 30, 2007 7:32 AM

LAWMAN

well ok then. simon does get shot in ois.
he's a good foil. cause he stands for what the alliance is at its best. which is why we love seeing him getting knocked down a few pegs. the one thing i think is never addressed in the series is the concept that when a privileged person is knocked to the ground, very few people have compassion. there's no empathy, cause most folk are regular folk. can't feel empathy for someone you can't relate to. even though, at the end of bdm, when jayne passes his bottle to simon, it appears that there's enough empathy to go around.

had a kind of poetry to it

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Monday, April 30, 2007 8:38 AM

NBZ

Jumping in with both feet, I blame it on fanfic.

Before all you writers try to crucify me (probably rightly), I will clarify a little. try to defend my position before you fortify the hill.

In the Series I liked all the characters. Same with the comic and the BDM.

But in fanfic I started to detest his character.

It is hard to do Simon justice.

He is both a certified genius and a little dumb. A bona fide martyr, but also an obstacle to heroism.

He is more than just his interactions with Mal Kaylee and River - this is something which can be sorely lacking.

The aspects focussed on in fan fic can be a bit... whiny.

After saying all that, to placate the writers (call it a bribe) I would reccomend this fic by Tzegha:
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1217106/1/

(make sure you have the "/" at the end of the link or it will not work)

Beware it may make you hate Simon even more! Or it may change your opinion of him.

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Monday, April 30, 2007 6:44 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Quote:
Perhaps Mistressahara can elaborate more and give you a better example of Simon's arrogance. She seems to dislike him more than I.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Elaborate, why do I need to elaborate? I just don't like him. No fault on the actor he's just one of the character's that never appealed to me (River as well but I like her a bit more, just. Let's not go there)

I can't explain it and I won't, just as with any show or movie there's always going to be one person you really can't connect to. As I said, if there is a sequel and he dies, I won't mourne him.

As for fanfics, the only one I've read is my own, and it's not very good, but I write Simon in a good way. I can't say it's arrogance or feeling he's better than the crew, I just personally don't like him.

Next question?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I'm the leader of the free world,
I'm the most special person there is."

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Monday, April 30, 2007 10:21 PM

CERES

I think that’s so true LAWMAN. In most movies/shows the audience is given obvious reasons why they’re supposed to empathise with a character, the problems they’ve gone through or the relationships that have failed. Simon never seems to feel sorry for himself, he’s a very strong person and so it’s harder for him to attract the sympathy vote.

........................

You can question the meaning of life on a floaty
island of your own for a while.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 3:09 AM

SAVANTE76

Well, he doesn't need the sympathy after all. He's a rich, sexy doctor - and in the top 3 percent.

But that doesn't mean I like to see guys whaling into my poor Simon. Really, he's had to deal with a lot of change - and sacrificed a lot along the way. And though he does get beaten up quite often, he does stand up which makes him more of a man than many.

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Saturday, August 18, 2007 2:48 PM

MOBBEX

"Storm's getting worse."

I don't see it, realy. Simon gets punched because his talent for alienating folks in near' miraculous That pretty much says it all for me. On a more serious note I guess you could say that he lacks social intelligence, i.e. dealing with people (alive ones) isn't something that comes naturally to him.

Personnaly, I think Simon rocks. Well, as do all our BDH's but thats beside the point... Doc's got his heart at the right place, and he stays true to it. He's... virtuous. Noble. Kind of a throwback to our more usual sci-fi hero Still he is more complex than you are initally led to believe. I like that in a hero

I just don't see it!

"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Saturday, August 18, 2007 4:00 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

I think why Simon gets hit so often is because he's not willing to change how he acts for anyone else((Or not able to, due to lack of social intelligence)). This is a strong quality, which does often have him saying the obvious thing that no one wants to mention and therefore leads to his being punched. I love the interpretation that he would be terrified to know he flails when punched, and I'm now going to pop in Firefly to watch and enjoy that little extra depth that we either see or Sean actually brought to the character.

I think we laugh when Simon gets punched because; a. its slapsticky the way Sean moves in response, and slapstick humor is virtually universally appreciated; b. we either were expecting it or would have done it ourselves, which is vindicating and emotionally rewarding, hence laughter; or c. He deserved it, as a character. If you look at it, Simon gets punched when someone bad ((Or at least sorta-bad, like Mal.)) is threatening him and he refuses to yield to them. I think this shows up most in Jaynestown, because at the begining of the episode Mal describes him as essentially a dandy who wouldn't know how to survive in the real world, but when he is accosted by Stitch, he doesn't adopt a manner of talking down to him and when he's attacked he defends himself, albeit badly. He surprises me with his tenacity and his deep sense of self.

I'd just like to tangent a bit here and say how good our BDHs are as actors. Their characters are believeable, multi-dimensional, and feel real. I think thats why we have people who love the show, but personally dislike a character. It's not that the acting is bad, but the person being portrayed isn't liked, and I as an actor would hope that my performances would arouse emotion because of the character portrayed, and not the portrayal. Does anybody know if any of the cast are trained in Method, because they all seem very in the moment and in the character whenever they're on screen, wheather they're the focus or not?

Any ways, I think that seeing Simon punched arouses laughter mainly for the slapstickyness of it, at least for me personally.

((Edit: I think I hath said I think too much.))

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

"To have ruined oneself for poetry is an honour." - Lord Henry, Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray

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Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:05 AM

DONCOAT

On seeing this topic bumped, and not having read it in a while, I misinterpreted the title as referring to Simon getting "hit" (aka shot) in the BDM.

Then I reread the initial post with that in mind, and was a bit startled to see someone saying they giggled about it...

So I'd like to point out that Simon getting shot was very, very far from amusing. We may get a bit of snarky satisfaction when he catches a fist, but I'd say our real feelings about him come to the fore when he catches a bullet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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