River Review by CellarDoor

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

River Review

POSTED BY: CELLARDOOR
UPDATED: Sunday, April 5, 2009 18:12
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VIEWED: 5992
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Friday, March 20, 2009 2:34 PM

Ok, now that I finally finished up the last episodes I was holding out on, I finally have a slightly better concept of River. Here's what I'm wondering. Was Summer informed about the gist of what River is shown to perceive in OiS? In other words, if I go back through all the episodes watching her in particular in scenes she appears in, will I see expressions or gestures that indicates she's reading? Or does this only happen after Ariel (or some other point)? I do realize that her knowledge of Jayne's fear in Trash is a clear indication.

(to speculate about my own question in part, River acted a little strangely towards the end of War Stories, like she was going to approach the crew--sorry, hazy memory since I've only seen the ep twice--but read something from Kaylee and did a subtle about-face in another direction)

Apologies if this has already been discussed. I'm just wondering if we look back (despite Fox's reordering), can viewers notice more about River as a reader that one might have realized before seeing OiS?

Please note: I have not yet watched the BDM. I only know the generalities of the movie, so I'm mainly talking about Firefly Proper (hehe, seems funny to call it that).

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Friday, March 20, 2009 6:18 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Remember in "Bushwhacked" when she followed the voices and boarded the derelict ship? How about how she reacted when the survivor regained consciousness in Serenity's infirmary?

In "Shindig" she picked up on the fact that Badger was from Dyton Colony and had spent time in jail, something I doubt she could have guess just from his accent.

In "Safe" she knew what had happened to Ruby without being told about it.

Those are just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, March 20, 2009 7:59 PM

BYTEMITE

I heard that one time when some of the cast and crew went out for drinks, Summer Glau made a joke about being a Jedi and pretended to levitate a glass.

So I think she knew there was something supernatural about her character. And there are hints scattered here and there. :)

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Friday, March 20, 2009 8:24 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

I think the very first indication that River's a reader occurs in the pilot episode, when River wakes up scared right before Dobson shows up. Ecgordon's examples are pretty good, too.

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Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:41 AM

ANOTHERSKY

People toss around the word psychic,but so far (not that I've read any dissertations, and excepting on or two anomalies)River's really only been shown "explicitly" as an extreme empath. And I think the 'verse colloquial term of "reader" really reflects this--is she an action reader, face reader, emotion reader, or what immediately comes to mind, a "mind reader"--which takes two forms:

1.) Enhanced empath/intuitive who is also a genius, and therefore can extrapolate *possible* outcomes and actions, as well as "feeling" the emotions motivating them. This is picking up (can't filter) other people's emotions to an advanced degree.
"Followed the voices" is a creepy and extreme example of this--that might be the earliest undeniable, EXPLICIT example of her readerness.

0r 2.) What Jayne seems to simplify it to, what it is in popular culture-- a psychic, future-knowing, literally "I know exactly the thoughts word-for-word in your head, and I also know ominipotent-style things, like the future and the past."

I don't think she exactly qualifies for #2.

Joss seems to be teasing us on her exact abilities if we think of it only in the popular conception. He seems to be showing explicitly
at the end of SERENITY (movie)her psychic-ness when River says about Mal's unvoiced 'rule of flying':"but I want to hear you say it."

HOWEVER:
in OiS etc. it's also very clear that the "thoughts in their heads" are from the waves of emotion/sensation she's getting.

(Zoe and Wash?) those are definately emotions and sensations. It seems they took the idea of an empath and superpowered her.

The entire episode is about picking up on the essence of things, most of the interactions in the crew in OiS are about how they're NOT doing this, or ignoring/denying it for various reasons.
("She understands, she doesn't comprehend." --"Glad we've made that little distinction." Right after his first awkward talk with Inara, and then goes back at the end to have a second purposeless talk with her...)

Simon later saying that very close line could STEM from this emotion River picks up earlier in the Kaylee-and-Socrates-story scene--she has a sense of his character and therefore could "assign lines" to the very specific emotion.

Badger: She's good, she's very good. But half of what she does there (hilarious as it is) could be done by a good cold reader--the kind used by palm readers, street magicians, and spies, which she seems to incorporate (training or just intuition?)with her emotional info.
I still love that scene though.

Nice that the characters, even the "crazy psychic" are never simple stereotypes.

For what it's worth, the one that really, really, really sticks out to me is also in Safe as a possible contradiction.

Remember when she's dancing then bam, dead stop with slight slo-mo(a la any war movie since 2001 when somebody dies)?
I first thought it was in reaction to Shepard being shot--but then two seconds later the "bad men" come for Simon.

Whether she "saw" or "felt" them coming is what's up for debate.

"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."
"Going for a ride."

Another Sky

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

This has been discussed in numerous threads, and if you search for them you'll likely find them, but the BDM spoilers would be the downside (ahem, SOMEBODY already posted spoiler above).

Was able to catch most of these the first time through, then more on repeated viewings.

Pilot. Dobson comes to kidnap River, she awakes scared and asks for Simon, just as Dobson appears and grabs her.

TTJ - red herring when she meets Mal, he leaves, she says "Mal. Bad. In the Latin." And knowing the hands of blue were coming.

Bushwhacked. They meet the ship, she says "ghosts" meaning what's on board. then she follows the voices onboard. She also says they're all screaming, Simon says nobody is screaming, she says "They were".

Safe - talks to voiceless Ruby. At the Stake - Daddy's coming (meaning Mal), and Time to Go as Serenity is about to appear. Also, communing with the cows.

Our Mrs Reynolds - "Thief" to Saffron.

Out Of Gas - "Fire" before the explosion. When she knows Book is afraid of gasping to death.

Ariel - awakes in the hospital, says Copper for a kiss with Jayne present, referring to Judas betrayal of Jesus. And the doctor killing the patient that Simon saves. And going the wrong way, towards hands of blue, and towards the cops when Jayne was betraying them. And going to the correct door just before Mal blew it open.

War Stories - Shooting the 3 bad guys, with eyes closed. Later Kaylee is freaked out by her presence, at the end of the ep - river knows Kaylee doesn't trust her anymore.

Heart of Gold - Who's in there?

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Sunday, April 5, 2009 5:52 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Solly. Are we supposed to put SPOILER notices up before we discuss anything? I will in future, I suppose...

Another Sky

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Sunday, April 5, 2009 6:04 PM

CELLARDOOR

S'ok... :) I have since viewed the BDM finally, so it's no longer a spoiler to me. It's just that I had asked for spoiler-freeness in my first post, but problem solved in this case. Yay for Netflix watch instantly!

As I'm watching the series again with my parents (their first time through now), I'm seeing River in a new light, that's for sure. I can't wait until they see Objects in Space too and I can talk about all the River stuff with them openly. Thanks for the various mentions in posts above about clues to her being a reader! (ack, too many prepositions in that there sentence!)

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Sunday, April 5, 2009 6:12 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Yes, well, I admit to putting my not-as-pretty-as-river's foot in my mouth there.

Sometimes I don't read instructions, and to my mind, that's a heck of a lot more annoying than too
many prepositions.(How'd you get all them little words in there, anyway?)
A masterful sentence.

"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."
"Going for a ride."

Another Sky

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