SciFi UK broadcasts censored?? by karr0ck

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

SciFi UK broadcasts censored??

POSTED BY: KARR0CK
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 13:04
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Monday, September 15, 2003 2:18 PM

I just watched my downloads of "Heart", "Trash" and "Message" -- these are the new ones that were recorded last month from SciFi UK and posted to the Internet (I got mine thru eDonkey2K).

Odd thing I noticed is that the love scene between Mal and Nandy was cut down to a kiss. It's not like there was anything overly bad in there, just her bare back facing the camera and maybe a hint of her butt cleavage.

So my question is, did SciFi UK cut the scene to shorten running time or in the name of censorship? I haven't gone over the other episodes scene-by-scene, but I'd wager that there are other little snips here and there.

I also noticed the pitch of all the voices were a little higher than usual, which tells me that they sped up playback speed enough to be audible to my ears... again, likely in the name of shorter play time.

And even though they seem to have played all 13 episodes in the "correct" order, they did not edit out the scene at the end of "Heart" where Inara announces that she's leaving.

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Monday, September 15, 2003 3:15 PM

SERGEANTX

I noticed the same thing about my copies of Trash and Message, but the copy of HOG that I'm in the process of downloading doesn't seem to have the high pitched voice thing going on.

It might be and artifact of converting to various web formats. Hope its not like that on the DVD.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Monday, September 15, 2003 3:59 PM

FFYING2

Are the high-pitched voices eunuque to those few episodes?

Ying/
Firefly Funsite
http://members.aol.com/fireflyfunsite

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Monday, September 15, 2003 4:30 PM

KARR0CK

Quote:
Originally posted by FFYING:
Are the high-pitched voices eunique to those few episodes?

As far as I can tell, yes. I have all the rest from US broadcast and they don't exhibit the same audio problems.

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Monday, September 15, 2003 4:34 PM

KARR0CK

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
It might be and artifact of converting to various web formats. Hope its not like that on the DVD.

I don't expect any issues with the DVD -- I'm sure it was done to either shorten running length or like you said, an encoding issue.

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Monday, September 15, 2003 8:23 PM

SIMONF

I'm not sure but I think episodes shown in the US are longer than the UK because of the TV format. In the UK, shows runs slightly quicker.

But saying that Sci-Fi UK could have cut the episodes.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:25 AM

SARAHETC

I've only seen Trash in the UK format but I immediately thought that the theme song seemed quick. Just maybe 10 beats a minute or so quicker. The Message UK rip is on deck for viewing this morning and I'll listen for it.

Sarah

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 3:51 AM

TABITHA

These are possibly the rips that I made - I didn't notice the cuts that you mention, or the speeding up of voices, but I will double check my copies as soon as I can.

One thing that might be an issue is the 'watershed'. SciFi was airing Firefly eps at 8 and 9. Generally speaking they would re-run the previous weeks new ep at eight, and then the new ep at nine. Perhaps the version that was shown at 8 was cut a little because of the nudity?

SciFi in the UK is pretty bad for having very long ad breaks, but they aren't known for shortening programs in order to jam more ads in, and often will air a short interview or film review in between one hour shows (I assume this is something to do with the limits on advertising minutes per hour that UK channels are subject to). I wish the SciFi UK forum would come back online, it has been defunct for about a month now :(

www.ascifi.com

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 10:49 AM

HJERMSTED

I noticed the pitch issue with my BTVS PAL-DVDs when I played them on my multi-format DVD player. (This was back before any Buffy seasons had been released in the States and I was impatient)

I thought the slightly higher voices had something to do with the NTSC (masters) to PAL (Euro format) back to NTSC (my player) conversion. However I was in Denmark touring last month and caught a Buffy episode at a relative's house. Sure enough, the higher register voices were in effect. So I figure the pitch difference is either due to the initial transfer into PAL or the eps are indeed sped up a tad to shave a minute or two off of the run time.

Considering NTSC and PAL are video formats (audio technology between the regions remains identical), I don't see how the pitch increase could be caused by anything other than speeding up the eps.

mattro

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:00 AM

JOSH294

Quote:
And even though they seem to have played all 13 episodes in the "correct" order, they did not edit out the scene at the end of "Heart" where Inara announces that she's leaving.

In the Objects In Space teaser, Inara says to Mal "I don't know why I haven't left yet." Is she not referring to the final scene in Heart of Gold? I assumed that she was, and she was finding it impossible to break away from Serenity. So Objects In Space naturally followed Heart of Gold as the last episode for me- but some people said they didn't think that comment was a reference to the last scene of Heart of Gold. One person I talked to thought a bigger deal would have been made out of it, but I thought a big deal wasn't made because that is what you would expect from a regular show, and Firefly isn't some stupid histrionic show full of weeping and over-amplified emotions. Plus we don't know how long after Heart of Gold OiS takes place, and as OiS takes place over about one night, there wouldn't be much developement of stories like Inara's within it.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:11 AM

KARR0CK

The biggest faux pax I noticed is in the "previously on Firefly" at the beginning of "Heart" -- they show clips from "Message", scenes that don't chronologically occur until three episodes into the future.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:26 AM

KARR0CK

Quote:
Originally posted by Tabitha:
These are possibly the rips that I made - I didn't notice the cuts that you mention, or the speeding up of voices, but I will double check my copies as soon as I can.

Tabitha -- I'm not sure, but I thought your rips were MPG's right?

The three I grabbed were AVI's that were source-tagged as PDTV.FOV.XVID. I know XVID is the video codec, PDTV is the video source and FOV is the ripping house. They also released an SVCD format file, but it never completed downloading.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:47 AM

TABITHA

Quote:
Originally posted by karr0ck:
The biggest faux pax I noticed is in the "previously on Firefly" at the beginning of "Heart" -- they show clips from "Message", scenes that don't chronologically occur until three episodes into the future.

Errr, but in the UK the air order of these eps was War Stories, Trash, The Message, HoG, OiS. I was watching out for these "previously on" segments, and they tallied okay with the air order.
Also, I agree with the poster above who sees Inara's announcement that she was leaving in HoG as a prelude to her statement at the beginning of OiS - "I don't know why I haven't left yet", or something to that effect. Makes perfect sense to me.

I have since rewatched HoG, and I really don't notice the pitch issue. If anything, I think UK channels are less ad-intensive than US channels (we only have one ad break during a 30 minute show, three breaks during an hour long show), so I really don't think the broadcasters would be shortening the show for advertising purposes.
But then, I am a UK resident, so if there is a difference in pitch associated with the transfer to PAL, perhaps I wouldn't notice anyway!

And yes - my eps were the MPEGs.

www.ascifi.com

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:02 AM

IDEFIX

I don't know about TV EPs but motion films are filmed at 24 FPS (frames per second) because that's the movie format.

NTSC uses 30 FPS and to reach that there's a system called 3:2 pulldown or something. where they show several frames twice to get to 30. it's actually a bit more complex, because TV is interlaced and movies are progressive. but it's the general idea.

PAL has 25 FPS and to reach that they do speed up the tape. so PAL versions of films are a bit faster (about 4%). and to keep video and audio in sync the audio is sped up too and is higher pitched.

if TV EPs are filmed the same way movies are that would be the explanation.

both systems have their disatvantages though. in slow camera moves the NTSC versions aren't entirely smooth because some frames are shown twice.

Idefix

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 2:09 AM

TABITHA

Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:

NTSC uses 30 FPS and to reach that there's a system called 3:2 pulldown or something. where they show several frames twice to get to 30. it's actually a bit more complex, because TV is interlaced and movies are progressive. but it's the general idea.

PAL has 25 FPS and to reach that they do speed up the tape. so PAL versions of films are a bit faster (about 4%). and to keep video and audio in sync the audio is sped up too and is higher pitched.

I was waiting for someone who actually knew something about the answer to this problem to weigh in. Thanks for the info Idefix - very informative.
I guess we really do learn something new every day!

www.ascifi.com

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 6:30 AM

KARR0CK

Quote:
Originally posted by Tabitha:
Errr, but in the UK the air order of these eps was War Stories, Trash, The Message, HoG, OiS. I was watching out for these "previously on" segments, and they tallied okay with the air order.

OK -- well, that explains it... so they still jumbled up the order. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I pulled this off of Fox's Firefly website before they yanked it:

"Serenity"
1AGE00
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/20/02

"The Train Job"
1AGE01
Writers: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 9/20/02

"Bushwhacked"
1AGE02
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: 9/27/02

"Shindig"
1AGE03
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: 11/1/02

"Safe"
1AGE04
Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
Director: Michael Grossman
Airdate: 11/8/02

"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
1AGE05
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Vondie Curtis Hall
Airdate: 10/4/02

"Jaynestown"
1AGE06
Writer: Ben Edlund
Director: Marita Grabiak
Airdate: 10/18/02

"Out of Gas"
1AGE07
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: David Solomon
Airdate: 10/25/02

"Ariel"
1AGE08
Writer: Jose Molina
Director: Alan Kroaker
Airdate: 11/15/02

"War Stories"
1AGE09
Writer: Cheryl Cain
Director: Jim Contner
Airdate: 12/6/02

"Heart of Gold"
1AGE10
Writer: Brett Matthews
Director: Tom Wright
Airdate: ??

"Objects in Space"
1AGE11
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/13/02

"Trash"
1AGE12
Writer: Ben Edlund & Jose Molina
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: ??

"The Message"
1AGE13
Writer: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: ??

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 6:49 AM

SERGEANTX

Sci-Fi UK showed the episodes in the correct order. The discrepancy in the 'previously viewed' sections was an artifact of the jumbled order that they were broadcast on fox. Tim Minear confirmed the following originally intended ordering.

Serenity(pilot)
Train Job
Bushwhacked
Shindig
Safe
Our Mrs. Reynolds
Jaynestown
Out of Gas
Ariel
War Stories
Trash
The Message
Heart of Gold
Objects in Space

Minor edits were made in Objects in Space to solve some continuity problems given that it was aired by fox after War Stories, with Trash, Message, and Heart of Gold not being aired at all. The edited portions of Objects in Space are supposed to be restored on the DVD release.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Wednesday, September 17, 2003 1:04 PM

TABITHA

Yep, there was quite a lot of excitement over the UK air order - I recall reading that Joss himself had made sure Scifi UK had the correct air order.

And I believe the "1AGE00" numbers are with regard to production order - which on many shows doesn't always tally with the air order.

www.ascifi.com

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