'Firefly' TV movies? by whozit

Why do we even need to worry about this? There was clearly a time gap between the end of the series and the movie. There's no reason we can't pick up where the series left off and fill in the gap. After that's done, then we can worry about what to do with the deceased characters.

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Wednesday, December 23, 2009 1:01 PM

Well, um, according to canon that time gap was two months, and there are already two comics set in that time period. I say maybe you could get away with two more before we're talking serious plot time compression issues.

I've never understood why the movie can't be ret-conned. It happens all the time in other franchises.

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Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:29 PM

Comics? Lol please don't tell me we're worried about compromising the story line of comics. As far as I'm concerned, they stand apart as their own (and very lame) thing. As you may have guessed, I don't read comics. But then I'm 27 and never really was into them even 20 years ago.

As for the number of movies that could be fit into the game. The possibilities really aren't all that limited. Never mind the sort of Star Trek-like tricks you could do with time, let's not go there, you could potentially have a movie with a time frame as small as a day quite easily.

I still think that Sy-Fy would be smart to try to resurrect the series itself. Fox didn't want it, but I think Sy-Fy would do at least as well with it as they did with Battlestar Galactica. Besides, they'll be looking for something to take it's place as the flagship series.

I assume by re-conned you mean retconned, which is certainly another possibility. Apparently Georgle Lucas retconned the opening credits to Star Wars after The Empire Strikes Back was released and it was clear a complete series would be a possibility.

One more question. Who or what is canon?

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Wednesday, December 23, 2009 7:05 PM

Actually, the comics are pretty much stand alone, so no, that's not what I'm saying. But what is canon is two months between series and movie. That's not much time.

I care about canon. I actually like the movie fine and wouldn't mind stuff set after it, but a lot of people don't because of what happened in the movie. The only viable options I see are after the movie, or starting at the end of the series and ret-conning the movie.

Also: ret-con = short for retroactive continuity. You know what I meant, and hyphens are just one way to abbreviate a word.

Canon is what is established story-wise and generally understood and considered to be official. But I think you know that as well.

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Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:50 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

I'd watch, whatever form. I'd subscribe to a cable service just to watch.

Not clear on the subject of Ret-con. Never heard of it. The definition " retroactive continuity" doesn't help either. Somebody 'splain? In small, simple words, with examples, like Firefly/Serenity related, please? Thank you.

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Thursday, December 24, 2009 6:39 AM

Continuity refers to the story itself and what's canon, so retroactive continuity is when the creator (and/or writers, if there's multiple people on a project) go back and fix something in a storyline.

This happens four ways: explaining what REALLY happened that we didn't see the first time, declaring that the event in question didn't happen, rebooting the franchise, or by unintentionally forgetting what had already happened in a complicated story and writing something different. The last one often prompts another ret-con when they realize the mistake. Fans usually let them know.

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Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:41 PM

Actually I didn't know what canon meant in this context so thanks. And I agree with you on the movie front. I wouldn't want to disregard what happened in it, I loved it. Sure beloved characters died, but that's part of what made it so powerful. It is a great film in my books, and it was what introduced me to the series. I missed the shows all too brief run so it was the movie that actually pulled me in. I've obviously gone back and eaten up the series, watching the episodes multiple times, wishing there was more.

At any rate I think we are pretty much in agreement.

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Monday, December 28, 2009 4:17 PM

Yeah, I think so. Are you new here? I wasn't sure, which is why I posted that stuff about "I think you know that." Just hedging my bets in case you did, didn't want to cause offense.

Anyway, if you are, welcome. :)

(Also, the site is back. Rock sauce!)

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:58 PM

Yup I'm new. I'm just really hoping now that Dollhouse is done, maybe Joss will try to get something done on the Firefly front. I think it was by far his best creation.

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 1:28 PM

He has said he's going to announce his next project right after the last episode of Dollhouse airs. That's pretty quick if it's not something he had in mind already... I'm hoping for something Firefly related too. Fox's franchise rights are almost up, and who knows? Maybe Whedon producing Dollhouse for Fox had a kind of hidden deal attached to it, if Joss made them another show, he could get the rights back or something.

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Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:53 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Not clear on the subject of Ret-con. Never heard of it. The definition " retroactive continuity" doesn't help either. Somebody 'splain? In small, simple words, with examples...

The best and most recent example I can think of is not from Firefly but the new Battlestar Galactica.

Chief Tyrol and Callie have a son named Nicholas. Then it is learned that Chief is really a Cylon. But it had already been established that Helo and Sharon's daughter Hera was the one and only genuine authentic human/Cylon hybrid child. So they ret-conned that Chief wasn't actually Nicholas' father, Hot-Dog was. Yeah, sounds lame doesn't it? About as lame as most of that show's final season.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 4:45 AM

KRELLEK

I would love to see some Firefly/Serenity tvmovie

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Monday, April 5, 2010 7:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I've never understood why the movie can't be ret-conned. It happens all the time in other franchises.

Yeah, but it happens with franchises where writing are..... probably the lowest concern. Not so with Firefly.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 5, 2010 7:34 AM

Quality of writing might be a little harsh. Now, QUANTITY, that has an effect. If you get a large enough collection to gather from, eventually continuity errors will creep in. Happened in Star Trek, and some parts of the prequel episodes of Star Wars retconned stuff in the EU and even the original trilogy.

Doesn't necessarily have to mean bad writing. If Joss happened to write himself into a corner with some of the character deaths, I could accept a retcon. There's pros and cons to the character deaths, and pros and cons to writing them so they didn't happen. I'm for whatever makes it easier for Joss to tell more stories. :)

It's not like he never resurrected anyone in Buffy. Of course, this is more realistic sci-fi, it'd be hard to pull that off believably. But I don't know that it's impossible or forbidden within the constraints of the story or setting, either.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 8:20 AM

I guess we're also talking the degree or meaning of retcon.

I consider a retcon to be a full on change - Suddenly saying there were (for instance) two years between Firefly and Serenity instead of the two months mentioned in the film would be a retcon to me. There are several examples in the Star Wars prequels as well.

The example with Tyrol's daughter on BSG as cited above, I don't consider to be a retcon - as it's just new info that changes how we view what came before. The reasons behind such a plot development might be the same as a full retcon (whoops - we messed up), but it still fits within the framework of what's been established.

Bringing back Dobson (as the comic did) I wouldn't call a retcon - we just didn't see the means by which he survived, and as improbable as it may have been, it is possible to survive such a wound.

Now, had he brought back Crowe.... that would be a pretty big one.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 5, 2010 8:57 AM

Theoretically Dobson shouldn't have survived a pointblank shot to the eye from a gun that also clearly could put down a horse. It would penetrate to the brain. Maybe that's why he became so revenge obsessed... Brain damage to the frontal lobe (anger moderation and etc). Still, he shouldn't have survived. He did, because of rule of funny.

On the other hand, sci-fi.

Have you ever gotten the feeling that some of the ideas Joss had for Dollhouse, he was planning to use for the Alliance/ Blue Sun experiments? I do.

Wash might be hard to resurrect, especially because it seems clear to me that Wash dying would have been concentrated character development for Zoe in any sequels. But Book telling Mal to believe, that might not necessarily preclude Book coming back in some form later on. Hell, it'd seem like a miracle, which plays right into the storyline, and look at all the possibilities. Law enforcement, at one time important to the Alliance?

I've often thought, it'd be interesting if Operatives came in model numbers, and each new Operative is a clone of his predecessor. Of course, you can't grow memories with cloning, not unless memories can be entirely described by the minute neural connections between axons and the Alliance had the technology to both create brain scans down to that level of detail, then are able to GROW neurons to that exact specification. Or there could be Dollhouse style memory storage. But even if you had none of those, with a "clone" you could still have a storyline about repeating history and such.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 5:52 PM

DMI

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Have you ever gotten the feeling that some of the ideas Joss had for Dollhouse, he was planning to use for the Alliance/ Blue Sun experiments? I do.

Yes, yes and hell yes! I never actually thought about it but now that you've pointed it out I think I just got to liking dollhouse a little more.

I kinda figured that Wash and Book would find there way back in to the show as figments of river's imagination alla Six in Gaius Baltar's head. Or maybe, if we ever got more filmed firefly, they just wouldn't come back. I'd trust Joss to make whatever he tried work.

I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

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Monday, April 5, 2010 6:56 PM

If you think about it, River is essentially Echo, only she doesn't need a chair, can distance steal memories/skills, and is generally more powerful.

Simon is a less cynical and not-romantic interest Ballard character.

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Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:54 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by beatupplenty:
Regarding the suggestion that Sy-Fy bring back Firefly. I would have to see a more out of that network before I would trust them with Firefly. Have we all forgotten all those fantastic Saturday night movies that were better than average for the first 2/3 to 3/4 only to crap out completely at the end? My husband and I used to watch them when nothing else was on and place bets on how long the movie would run before the story took a complete dump. I hate to be so blunt--but that channel has a lot to prove before its worthy of picking up where the Serenity film left off.

All too true...

In their favor , they DID do a fair job with the Galactica franchise re-boot...

If the network would commit $ 50 million I could see that they were serious...

Being that 'SyFy' is an NBC/Universal property , it could even give them a two-fer...First run in primetime on NBC , then the re-run on a weekend night on SyFy...

They are not that smart , though...Remember the debacle with Conan and the sinking of the Leno Tonight show franchise ? With 'management' like that , no wonder that parent company GE is thinking of ditching their networks...

Last thing I wanna see is Firefly dying an undignified crash/burn death on a cheap-ass network...

Be much better to see a 14-hour miniseries on HBO or Showtime , every year...

Still flying...That's enough...

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Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:21 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

In these financially troubled times... seems like perfect times for a Firefly reboot. Who wouldn't relate to a *family* trying to scratch out a living any way they can? And they can have a little fun thinking of themselves as outlaws at the same time.
I would think Skiffy would be hungry for a new universe to explore - the Firefly 'Verse is perfect, even if they go with different characters, and as mentioned, they kind of own the rights to it already.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by beatupplenty:
Regarding the suggestion that Sy-Fy bring back Firefly. I would have to see a more out of that network before I would trust them with Firefly. Have we all forgotten all those fantastic Saturday night movies that were better than average for the first 2/3 to 3/4 only to crap out completely at the end? My husband and I used to watch them when nothing else was on and place bets on how long the movie would run before the story took a complete dump. I hate to be so blunt--but that channel has a lot to prove before its worthy of picking up where the Serenity film left off.

They make those Saturady movies intentionally bad. Do you really think they're shooting for quality with Mansquito??

Their series have faired pretty well, though. Some bad, some great, some in between. Just like every other channel.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:50 AM

OUT2THEBLACK

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
In these financially troubled times... seems like perfect times for a Firefly reboot. Who wouldn't relate to a *family* trying to scratch out a living any way they can? And they can have a little fun thinking of themselves as outlaws at the same time.

I would think Skiffy would be hungry for a new universe to explore - the Firefly 'Verse is perfect, even if they go with different characters, and as mentioned, they kind of own the rights to it already.

You are right...Firefly is more relevant than ever...Subversive , though .

Can't have the commoners running around with guns , and in their very own spaceship(s) too , now can we ?

'Skiffy' isn't even skiffy , anymore...If they cannot be true to themselves , can we trust them with our beloved ?

Whut wuzz up with wrasslin' on Sci-Fi , anyway ?

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Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:28 AM