Not Again!!! by Cybersnark

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Not Again!!!

POSTED BY: CYBERSNARK
UPDATED: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:37
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Monday, October 18, 2004 8:43 AM

Problems Crop Up in Fla. Early Voting
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=1&u=/ap/200410
18/ap_on_el_pr/voting_early

Quote:
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - With memories of 2000 and the state's bitter fight over ballots still fresh, Floridians began casting votes Monday and within an hour problems cropped up.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 12:04 PM

BIKISDAD

I really don't mean to offend anyone from Florida, but why is it that people all over the rest of the country can figure out how to fill these things (ballots) out, and they can't? Or is it just the West Palm Beach people who have "problems"? People from that area must embody the three R's: Rich, retired, and retarded?

Sorry, if you're a Browncoat from West Palm Beach, I'm sure that you're plenty capable of filling out a ballot, but you really ought to do something to help out your less able neighbors.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Monday, October 18, 2004 12:28 PM

TALLGRRL

it's not that anyone can't figure out the ballots.
it's that in florida there are a myriad of "problems" from voter intimidation to old antiquated machines to...well, just name it.
also, the governor of the state happens to be the brother of the president. yep.
in 2000, the person in charge of voting (registration, ballots, vote count, etc) in the state was also the head of the election committee for...the governor's brother.
there's been talk for quite some time that there would be some mess in florida again...and it looks like that's coming to pass.
some silly people blamed a lot of the problems in the florida count on "people that couldn't figure out the ballot", which was horseshit.
the ballots were printed badly, machines in particular parts of the state were old, people were knocked off of the registration lists because they had a name that was similar to a felon...IN TEXAS. a LOT of black people were kicked off of the registration lists for all kinds of bogus reasons.
All I can say is that I'm not surprised.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard."

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Monday, October 18, 2004 12:43 PM

BIKISDAD

Sorry again, but all of the "problems" that you just described are not unique to Florida. In fact, it sounds like you could be describing any state in the union. (I voted for years in California with those "chad" leaving punch card ballots - we never had any problems from them there). Florida seems to be the only place where these "problems" cause PROBLEMS.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:30 AM

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Although, the problems may have occurred when residents were looking for "Charlie", "Francis", and "Ivan" instead of Bush and Kerry. ;)

Love ya FLA! ;)

-Taylor

Uncharted Outlaw!

Haulin' goods from one end of creation to th' other. Keepin' my nose clean 'round the Alliance. See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 5:32 AM

ARAWAEN

I think the problems do happen in every state. The problem with Florida was that the election in 2000 was so close that it made a difference. Now they are under intense scrutiny and every mistake and issue will be televised.

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 5:42 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
I think the problems do happen in every state. The problem with Florida was that the election in 2000 was so close that it made a difference. Now they are under intense scrutiny and every mistake and issue will be televised.

Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.

You're exactly right. The "problems" that have been reported so far have been really minor and blown out of proportion by the media - which, after all, is just trying to sensationalize the story to sell more newspapers.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:00 AM

SHINY

Maybe every state should just go to a proportional system where the electoral votes are split approximately according to the popular vote in that state...at least then we wouldn't have to spend so much time and effort trying to force precision down to some unrealistic 0.001% in such close races.

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Trying to kick 60,000 people off the voter rolls (90% of the entries were wrong) is hardly "minor".

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:34 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Maybe every state should just go to a proportional system where the electoral votes are split approximately according to the popular vote in that state...at least then we wouldn't have to spend so much time and effort trying to force precision down to some unrealistic 0.001% in such close races.

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

I like it. That's a very logical, reasonable, and practical idea. Therefore, it will, unfortunately, never happen. Why not? Politics. Each side would accuse the other of somehow trying to gain an unfair advantage and neither would vote for it. I'm sure that most of US, you know, We the People..., would go for it. But the pols (of both major parties) would be afraid of losing their power over us and would not let it pass. Besides, I think that's one of those things that requires a Constitutional amendment - requiring ratification by 2/3 of the states? When was the last time one of those went through?

Good suggestion, though. In a perfect world....

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:37 AM

EVILMIKE

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Trying to kick 60,000 people off the voter rolls (90% of the entries were wrong) is hardly "minor".

That's not really the issue of this thread, is it? Since early voting has started in Florida, only minor procedural problems have cropped up. The media, and to some extent the Democratic Party, have tried to make it seem as if the problems of 2000 are still here -- and that it is all the fault of Jeb Bush and the Republicans.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:42 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by evilmike:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Trying to kick 60,000 people off the voter rolls (90% of the entries were wrong) is hardly "minor".

That's not really the issue of this thread, is it? Since early voting has started in Florida, only minor procedural problems have cropped up. The media, and to some extent the Democratic Party, have tried to make it seem as if the problems of 2000 are still here -- and that it is all the fault of Jeb Bush and the Republicans.

Exactly, see "sensationalize" in my post above.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Actually, Florida tried to kick 40,000 people off the voter rolls again this year, too. I hardly think that it's "sensationalism" to point out that tens out thousands of people were deliberately disenfranchised by the state of Florida. The eight hundred or so contended votes hardly compares to tens of thousands kicked off the rolls. In fact, if you look at relative impacts, focusing on hanging chads itself was sensationalism because the larger story was being ignored.

But aside from nefarious deeds by whichever political party happens to be in power, there are a number of mechanical/ procedural problems with voting. There are no nation-wide remedies because the Consitution gives each state the power to choose how elections are held. (Unless of course you are the Supreme Court in which case you reverse a state Supreme Court's decision on how to count ballots!)

However, if it were possible, I would really like to see proportional electors. I would also require that any software/ hardware used to count ballots be fully auditable- including (but not limited to) electronic voting. How in this day and age can we trust our votes to a "proprietary" (privately owned, secret) process???

Redistricting is another political boondoggle!

We should ban ALL poll results from being issued two weeks before each election.

And the broadcasters, as part of their licensed REQUIREMENT to use the public airwaves for the public good, should be required to provide free airtime to all candidates that have at least a 1% showing in the polls.

Is that un-sensationalized and proactive enough for ya???

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Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And finally, the (very good) argument for "instant runoff" voting:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/
la-oe-saari21oct21,1,4509612.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

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