Harry Potter and the HBP (Spoilers) by airylli

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Harry Potter and the HBP (Spoilers)

POSTED BY: AIRYLLI
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2005 22:21
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Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:14 PM

Dru: I really agree w/you...in fact since both Snape & Dumbledor were experts at Legilimency they could have cooked it up right there while they were looking at each other...

and I was convinced that Dumbledor was really dead Saturday when I read about it ... but the more I've thought about it, the more I've thought:
it is so weird.
Weird that Snape moved the body after he killed him.
Weird that no one else went to prepare the body for burial except Hagrid.
Weird in ways that made me go hmmmm
I think JKR made it weird on purpose ... and I can only think of two reasons:
#1 Dumbledor is not really dead but did what he suggested the Malfoys could do; fake their deaths to fool Voldemort.
#2 Dumbledor is really dead but JKR wants to make it a little confusing so people like me will discuss it and wonder about it for the next two years or so.

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Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:42 PM

GWEK

REFLEXIVE: Didn't necessarily meant that Harry died in the end (although we have to admit that's always a possibility), but that Harry will take a protective posture to win.

Even if all the horcruxes are destroyed, Harry still needs to BEAT Voldemort, and he's really just not as good as ol' Tom Riddle. I think that, in the end, he'll need love/protectiveness to help balance the scales. Could be love of friends, love of Ginny, love of Dumbledore, or even love of family (wouldn't it be a kick in the head if the Dursleys play a part?), but given what we've seen in book 6, my money is on Ginny.

I see it almost like Return of the Jedi: Luke is losing to Vader, but when Vader threatens Leia (albeit indirectly), Luke's protectiveness of his sister gives him the oomph he needs to fight back.

Dunno; We'll know it all eventually! :)

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:35 PM

FRAY101

I read a theory elsewhere that it's actually Ron & Hermione's love that saves the day - after Harry has been killed.

But I'd rather not think about that...

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:22 AM

RELFEXIVE

What if it's not Dumbledore that died... but Snape. Because... they switched minds at the last moment. All of Snape's last comments to Harry as he was escaping were lessons... and Snape never really taught Harry anything. But Dumbledore did.

Hmmmm....

I think whether or not Dumbledore is dead depends on the nature of pictures in the Potter 'Verse. I don't recall any portraits of living people being as forthcoming with comments as those of the dead... are they only very vocal when their subjects are no more? If so, a talkative Dumbledore portrait would be an indicator.

"My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training."

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:41 AM

DEANNAMAY

Actually, I think Harry has to live, because if he dies, Voldemort will still win in some form, and I think after 7 books, Rowling wouldn't do that to us. The prophecy also indicates only one would die.

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:05 AM

EMMA

Ok, I am sticking my neck on the block here but these are my predictions for the final installment, inspired in part by this the posts on this thread:

Harry/Neville - one of them will die. I still think Neville has something to do with the prophecy even after Dumbledore's speeches. Perhaps his speeches were meant because he knew Neville might be the one meant to fight Voldemort in the end but he doesn't have the strength and so he gives Harry the 'a prophecy only comes true when you know it' speel.

Ron/Hermione/Ginny - all will live and end up happily ever after

Dumbledore - Obi-Wan then death

Sirius - he is so coming back. Nobody has ever said what happens behind the veil, only that they don't come back - a nonsense excuse if ever I heard one

Petunia - is a witch, I reckon she will redeem herself in the end by showing her powers. She probably isn't very good and dropped out - a bit like Hagrid I reckon. One of the Dursleys will die, possibly all of them so that the love of his friends (and/or Sirius) can take over

Snape/Malfoy/Narcissa - all will live and be redeemed

Lucius - dead as a door-knob

Arthur - dead

Percy - redeemed

All other Weasleys - live

Luna - live and join the 'inner circle'. If Neville lives they will end up together (annoyingly - it should be Harry/Luna)

Hagrid - still undecided, I think he may die, either that or marry Madame Maxime

Until this book I thought more people would die but now I think JK will chicken out and only have 2 or 3 good guys die at the most. Not even members of the order will die they will all end up happy-ever-after.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:19 AM

FRAY101

Been thinking about this a lot have you Em?

It's funny - let's face it, Harry can be a real sulky brat (OK, I would be too faced with what he's been through) but I can't face the thought of him dying.

I thought Neville was headed for a greater role, but his sidelining in Book 6 makes me wonder...

Hey - maybe a reformed Draco could kill Lucius....

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:48 AM

EMMA

Draco kill his dad? Hmmmmmm, don't think so.

JK has said that Neville is due for a larger role but she said that before book 6 was published so...

Oh, and, yes Fray I have been thinking about this a teency weensy bit

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:51 AM

LETSBEBADGUYS

I quite enjoyed this book, but the lack of plot, and number of romantic storylines, just were a waste of time really.
Dumbledore's death was stupid. There was no reason for JK to do that

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so...very...pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

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Monday, July 25, 2005 5:58 PM

DRU

My theory is that Snape is on the side of good and Dumbledore is still alive.

In book 1(page 138) Snape talks about The Draught of Living Death- a sleeping potion so powerful it's know as the Draught of Living Death and he also mentions Bezoar that will save you from most potions. In Book 6(page 188) the Draught of Living Death is again mentioned.

I think Dumbledore took the potion to fake his own death. When he's facing Malfoy at the end, it described that he looked like he was going to fall asleep. When Dumbledore's body is being described, "but for the strange angle of his arm and legs, he might have been sleeping."

Snape pretends to kill Dumbledore, turns everyone against him which strengthens his story with Voldemort that he's on his side.

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Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:54 PM

BECKYLAST

I agree, it did sound like she was reading a fan fic, all the emotion, my my Harry's turning into a man. but i dont think it was one of her best. i dont no y (this may seem a bit petty) but i found tunns of spelling mistakes, maybe it was just my book. I liked the book i really did but the third, fourth, and fifth have been a fav. is it just me or did the third movie not do the book justice. At least now i no y the movie did more justice to the second book. i didnt no it was going to be so important.

bek

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Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:01 PM

BECKYLAST

Ok i so agree that somthing more has to happen with serious. i mean they left this blank spot about the vail. none of my friends believe me when i tell then that i think sirius will come back.
I rekon that a few weasley's are gonna die. there is no way that all of them can survive. i rekon Arthur and Percy. Percy is so gonna die and Molly is so gonna cry.
I rekon (this is only a slight hunch) that Snape will die for Harry. I no it's far fetched but there is no way he can be so bad. hes much to complicated for that. there was somthing going on between snape and dumbledore that we do not no about.

bek

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Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:03 PM

FRAY101

Re the "Is Snape good or bad" thing, I'm just rereading Order of the Phoenix (having made the mistake of failing to do so prior to reading Book 6).

Remember when Snape removes his memories so Harry can't find them? Now OK, it's not clear how many he removes but the "big bad" seems to be him being bullied by James & Sirius. If Snape was still in league with Voldemort surely it would be too dangerous for him to risk Harry being able to enter his mind?

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Monday, August 1, 2005 8:10 PM

CHOLLETT

My theory for the climax of #7 is that maybe Harry's protecting his friends, and doing a standoff spell w/Voldemort a la book4 i think. He'll start losing, and then his friends will whip out their wands, assist him, and all will be saved. Something like that.

My other theory involves the knowledge that J.K Rowling has already written the last chapter of book 7, long ago. I cant get the thought out of my head of a tombstone saying "Here lies Harry Potter; The Boy Who Lived."

(whimper)

I'm babbling like a moonbrain.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 3:58 AM

BECKYLAST

yeah i totaly agree- i mean i think he just forgot about the pesive to leave it open like that- now i think snape was running off to help a slytherine of malfoy- there i so somthing going on there. But i just dont think that J.K. Rowling would make such a 1 dimential character.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 5:24 AM

OPTIMUS1998

ok, i honestly won't pretend to have a clue what y'all are talkin 'bout. never really cared for harry potter.infact, this link tells me all I need to know about this book
http://www.tshirthell.com/dumbledore.htm

Flame away!

...May have been the losing side, Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 5:46 AM

CALLMESERENITY

Oh, that's awful!

Not because it's a spoiler (I see the humour in that), but because it treats Dumbledore's death as something flippant and insignificant and that hurts.

I know Dumbledore is a fictional character, but to me it's like watching Gandolf fall at the bridge of Khazad Dum and just saying "Oh well, on we go." It's very heartless.

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 6:00 AM

FRAY101

I found that link yesterday! Sweet of them to make different versions depending on which version of the book you're reading.

But moving on...Hmmm, interesting comparison to Gandalf though - I mean, everyone thought he was dead but he returned stronger than ever!

OK, I'm joking - the Fellowship just assumed Gandalf was dead. Sadly there's a little more proof where Dumbledore is concerned.

(BTW, very good HP thread over at the UB too).

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 6:02 AM

OPTIMUS1998

again, i have to claim ignorance as to what you're talking about.

for reasons unbeknownst to myself, i have no real interest in LOTR, or the ALIEN movies. if i have to lose my "fanboy points" for making this discloesure. so be it......

never read the books (LOTR), tried to watch the first movie, MANY times, fall asleep within 30 min!(actually best sleeping aid i've ever had)

and for alien(s).... first real experience was resurection, on cable, ( i know don;t judge the series by it's weakest link) and i have a freind who is TOO obsessed with aliens. IMHO
...though i did manage to convert him to browncoat-dom. ( he caught an ep or two of FF whan first on the air, not impressed, but i took him ot see the BDM, and his coat is now a rich shade of brown.) My First Convert! FINALLY.

but i start to ramble sorry for the thread hijack!

...May have been the losing side, Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Thursday, August 4, 2005 6:26 AM

CALLMESERENITY

That's okay, Opt, you don't have to know.

I've never seen the Alien movies, either. Don't really care to.

But anyway, back to the thread...

I have a theory (it could be bunnies!)

Serenity, First Officer of Destiny

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Tuesday, August 9, 2005 6:06 PM

FAY

Quote:
- Snape and Dumbledore are overheard arguing about something that Snape doesn't want to do (ie. what he ends up doing).
- Dumbledore's reaction to Snape turning is "Severus, please", not "Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" or anything along the same vein as what he was saying to the other Death-eaters. He could equally be asking Snape to do what they'd agreed to (ie. what he did).
- Dumbledore finally lets Snape have the DADA job, despite knowing that whoever holds that position won't stay longer than a year, suggesting he knows something major was going to happen involving Snape.
- As Snape is running away after doing what he did, his 'taunts' to Harry are actually some pretty damn good advice about what he should be working on as far as magic.
- This one's pretty sketchy, but there's also Snape's hand shaking as he makes the Unbreakable Vow.

-amygdala

You are making good points.I realy agree with you and I would like to add that I think the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape so much is becasue Snape made the unbreakable vow with the head master to protect Harry. Snape could have killed Harry or taken him with them so Voldermort would kill him. Instead he just gave him his last lesson to practise saying spells siletly.

Another thing that keeps poping up is that I don't belive that Dumbledore is gone. He was connected to the Phonex and I belive that he will make a comback in one way or another.

Anna

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Tuesday, August 9, 2005 6:11 PM

FAY

Fray101 I don't belive that Snape is evil. I think he has a good reason for killing Dumbledore. My theory is that he and Dumbledore made the unbreakable vow for Snape to proteckt Harry no matter what. Even if that means killing the head master. I mean there has to be a huge reason for Dumbledore to trust Snape as much as he did. And we all know that Dumbledore knows more than anyone.

Anna

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Tuesday, August 9, 2005 8:25 PM

EMMA

couldn't agree more

My other half finished HP6 yesterday and was saying exactly the same things even though he isn't really 'into' the whole analysis and discussion of books.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:37 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by fray101:
Overall I thought it was a marked improvement on the last novel - although have to admit I kept thinking "this is going to be a nasty film!". However it struck me last night how disappointing it was that Ron & Hermione were so busy sulking or snogging that they made no contributions whatsoever to the main plot - where was the teamwork that helped them so much in the past?

...

I just wish I'd reread Book 5 first as I'd forgotten so many details - guess I'll go read it now!

Couldn't agree with these points more!

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"

Summer Glau to me - "You are so photogenic."

Me -

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Saturday, August 27, 2005 2:04 PM

BARTO

regulus couldnt still be alive or harry couldnt have inherited Kreacher or Number 12 Grimauld Place...
the wise words of barto the great

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 9:07 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS

Quote:
The only way he could Obi-Wan it is as a ghost, which doesn't seem likely. Dead is dead in HP-Land. Dead is dead? Are you forgetting the ghosts each house has? And Peeves? And the ghost party Harry & co. went to in the earlier book? I think DD as a ghost is unlikely for literary reasons but there is no reason to assume dead is forever in HP.

I am planning on growing a big black moustache. I'm a traditionalist.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 10:21 PM

MURMURER

If Dumbledore is alive in any way, he can no longer function as the all-seeing mentor. The mentor must die, Harry must face Voldemort without his father-figure. Frankly, I'll be disappointed if Dumbledore comes back - as much as I loved him as a character, bringing him back at all would only undermine the impact of his death.

Fay's speculation about Fawkes is interesting, though. I'm sure Rowling knew that Dumbledore would die from the beginning, and her decision to make his pet a phoenix seems much more poignant with that in mind.

Dru's theory is also interesting. But I'd attributed Dumbledore's weakness to his ordeal in the cave.

I second Emma's theory: the reason Snape hates Harry is the same reason Dumbledore trusts him - Snape loved Lily. In book 5 he calls her a mudblood (to cover his real feelings of embarrassment), but we've discovered that he is a 'half-blood' himself. Lily died to save Harry, and Snape resents him for that. However, he hates Voldemort much, much more, and Dumbledore knows he'll never return to Voldemort's side. Dumbledore died to secure Snape a place in Voldemort's inner circle.

My prediction: Hermione's next to die. If you think Dumbledore's death hurt, just wait. No more meek, hapless Ron - her death will transform him completely. If she doesn't die, she'll at the very least be terribly hurt and incapacitated for much of the book.

As for some of the other theories - the Dursleys don't have to die. Their protection ends on Harry's next birthday. The Neville/Luna idea makes sense to me. And I'm starting to think that Regulus Black and Harry the Hoarcrux are misleads.

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