Dark Angel Resurrection - Pilot question by Zoot

Well, I wondered about that myself ... until, that is, I read this in the script of the episode:

"IN SLOW MOTION one of the troopers fires a tazer at Zack.
Moving in real time (and thus much faster than the scene around him, which remains in slo-mo) Zack ducks the flying tazer dart. It embeds in a soldier behind him who is jump-started by the 150,000 volts. Zack smashes the tazer-firing guy with the log and leaps toward another when--

Five troopers fire tazers simultaneously and--

Zack ducks and spins, dodging, but--

One of the darts connects and he lights up, convulsing as--

Two more troopers run up and fire at close range and--

Zack goes down, making spasmodic snow angels.

Max stares in horror as Zack is set upon by the human wolves. Jondy grabs her and yanks her away. "

So I think that idea is a bust ...

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 4:49 AM

RELFEXIVE

She could've been mistaken...

Alternatively, there is a simpler answer: it's the pilot. Things change after a pilot. Maybe it was only decided he had escaped after it had been filmed and shown.

'Sides, whose script is it? A shooting script? A transcript by a third party? Or something else?

Alternatively, again, it could be that he escaped properly later... I really can't remember.

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 5:22 AM

shooting script ...

but you're right - probably best answer is things change after the pilot ...

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Friday, January 6, 2006 6:23 PM

I’m not really sure if this was a writing fluke or intentional, but if I remember correctly it is explained in a later episode. This is the “second escape,” which occurred 4 hours following the initial escape, if I remember correctly. I used to be able to recite this stuff by memory back when I was a regular on the DAtv board, but it’s been so long. Try watching BBWW. I think that might be the episode that it is explained.

Maybe I can watch the first season over this weekend and figure it out again, but I have a feeling I’ll be busy on house repairs and whatnot.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Friday, January 6, 2006 6:30 PM

Also for those hoping to see a Dark Angel movie, the worst thing that could have happened: Cameron is producing a movie based on a Japanese anime called Battle Angle Alita (sp?). It was always rumored that this was Cameron inspiration for Dark Angel, so perhaps he feels he’s getting back to the fundamentals of the story, or possibly Alba has found other things. I have mixed feelings about this, because I would love to see a Dark Angel movie, if they started from the pilot or in some way based it on the second season. If they tried to continue from the broken and hackeneyed plots of the second season, I’d rather take my chances with the live-action Anime.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 1:36 AM

Hmm! Didn't know there was a rumour about a DA movie .... could conceivably be good ... Wouldn't mind it starting from end of second season if it had a self contained plot and they left out the Logan virus thing (which is just silly).

I love the idea of a group of mutants in a post apocalyptic America standing up for their rights but the whole breeding cult/Ames White thing could be left out or made a little less hard on the old suspension of reality thing ....

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 1:58 PM

Sorry for the simple-like answer, but Zack didn't make it out with Max, however, he WAS able to slip out on a second attempt, one not shown to us (or known to Max). I don't know if this was referred to in BBWW, but that would be the ep if it was referred to at all, and I have a vague recollection that it was. We must defer to Finn here.
(What with Serenity and BSG 2.0 coming out, DA is in the background-for now, I'll get back to it eventually, as I always do...)

As for a feature; forget it. I don't know that they could even re-capture the magic they briefly had, so much has changed. The only way would be to set it 5 years of so after Freak Nation(to cover obvious age differences[Ms. Alba is no longer a girl]), try like hell to get some of the same writers and music people, and start filming real soon.

Chrisisall524
P.S., how did y'all like Jessica in Fantastic Four? I thought she was great, totally different from Max, and I liked the flick a lot, too!

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 3:42 PM

I just watched 411 and BBWW and couldn’t find the reference to what I thought I was talking about. I was doing trim work, so I didn’t literally watch them, just listened. Maybe it’s in another episode or a script or possibly something I made up. I don’t know these things.

Anyway, I liked F4. I thought it would have been better if they had made it more of children’s flick, but I think that about almost everything. I don’t care much for the PG-13 thing. I think every movie should be either PG or R, never in between.

I like Alba’s performance though. I always thought she could do good stuff, but she wasn’t always consistent in DA. I don’t know if she’s actually improved or if she had better coaching on F4 that didn’t let her slack off, but either way, she was much better.

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Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 3:51 PM

Well, Zack's escape after Max is de facto, in any case.
I agree mostly on what you said about ratings. Can I show my son, or not??
I'd give Fantastic Four a PG, and Serenity an R, PG-13 is for R-wannabes, and Serenity definitly was an adult experience (One the thirteen year-old in me was thrilled with, BTW

)

Chrisisall, sneakin' into R's for over six years during his youth...

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 6:00 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by RelFexive:
There are multiples of each of the X5s...

Gods rot it!
*hides eyes to ask*
I have been trying to find the time to watch my shiny new Season I DVDs which took weeks to get here. I watched the pilot, and since Zoot says that where this starts, I thought great! In on the beginning of this experience with no spoilers...but noooo. Immediate spoiler from Rel. (Hi Rel, no hard feelings) So tell me, how much should I watch before joining in if I want to be rel-atively spoiler free? hee hee
Thx!
Oh goody goody, DA at last!

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Saturday, January 7, 2006 6:06 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Woops! Zoot...your thread, so I should have asked you what I just asked Rel above.
*still hiding eyes*

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Monday, January 9, 2006 7:09 AM

Gonna have to admit here and now that am not a big fan of F4 - thought, frankly, it sucked ... could have something to do with finding it so dull I almost fell asleep and Ms Alba was, as usual, very lovely to look at, but absolutely dreadful at the whole acting thing ... sorry, guys, but that's what I thought ... However, I may have been having an off day!!

Now to the Zack breakout – I believe both you and Finn re the 2nd breakout thing, but you know and I know that I have watched these things many times with an almost obsessive attention to detail and cannot remember any reference to a second break out – which surely would have gotten Lydecker into big ol’ piles of trouble … I mean TWICE – and they were only kids (all be it genetically modified) …

But am willing to believe that that’s how it happened, just so the pilot fits and all …

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Monday, January 9, 2006 7:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by liminalosity:
Woops! Zoot...your thread, so I should have asked you what I just asked Rel above.
*still hiding eyes*

Lim (can I call you Lim?)

You should probably watch both seasons if you want to read the random DA discussions and not get spoiled – am afraid we have been on this whole deconstruct DA gig for some considerable time and have got to the knit-picky, we-all-know-what-we’re-talking-about stage where you’ve discussed all the big things and are doomed to pick holes simply to keep the threads alive

…

Let us know what you think once you’ve watched it though and we can have some new shiny threads going thorough it all again (we just love discussing DA – well at least it seems Jackie, Chrisisall and I do anyhow, with a little help from others too numerous to mention)…

Enjoy and p.s. I LIKE the name!!!!

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Monday, January 9, 2006 7:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Gonna have to admit here and now that am not a big fan of F4 - thought, frankly, it sucked ...

I have an exceedingly high cheese thresh-old, and therefore found F4 to be great for my inner 10 year-old.

And not showing Zack's escape was to work in a big "THAT'S ZACK!?!?" gasp from the audience when Max realizes it's him.
The old plot devise ploy.

Chrisisall, deconstructing agin

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Monday, January 9, 2006 7:37 AM

Plus it doesn't really matter cos BBWW is all about Max and Logan anyhow and is superb none the less ... come to think of it Jondy doesn't look like she's gonna get away in the pilot but still escapes too ...

Unfortunately my cheese threshold (if I can’t eat it) is very low indeed ... 'course if it is edible, my cheese threshold is astronomical (mmm cheese!!)

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Monday, January 9, 2006 7:44 AM

Once those kids found out they COULD escape, the cork was out of the bottle. Had to re-program them to make 'em stay.

Want some ale with that cheese? Chrisisall

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Monday, January 9, 2006 8:21 AM

SICKDUDE

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Also for those hoping to see a Dark Angel movie, the worst thing that could have happened: Cameron is producing a movie based on a Japanese anime called Battle Angle Alita (sp?). It was always rumored that this was Cameron inspiration for Dark Angel, so perhaps he feels he’s getting back to the fundamentals of the story, or possibly Alba has found other things.

Sorry, Finn et al, but I have been a Battle Angel Alita fan for quite a while. The reason I watched DA was that I heard Cameron liked Alita and based DA on Alita. Looking back, not so much; Alita is also post-apocalyptic with a kick-ass girl (cyborg, not mutation), but that's about it. Frankly, I like Alita more! Like the fact that she upgrades her body a few time throughout the series... If you decide to do your homework, check out the comics, not the anime movie.

As to the thread, last time I saw DA was when it aired, but I kinda vaguely recall Alex was a "momma's boy" for Manticore when he showed. I thought he was out hunting the others down.

Then again, I remember Firefly having four seasons, one starring Scott Baio....

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:25 PM

Loath as I am to bring up this whole can of worms again, I was watching “The Kids Are Aiight” last night and Max says a couple of things which make me seriously doubt the multiple escape theory:

When she’s about to go rescue Zack, Logan says to her that she’ll never slip through the Manticore drag-net and she says: “We did it ONCE before and we were just kids then.” To me this clearly indicates there was only ever a single escape.

Plus, later on, when Max is talking to Zack, she says Jondy has found it difficult to sleep (or something) “ever since the escape” … If Jondy or Zack had escaped at a separate times, wouldn’t it have been just as easy to say “ever since the escapes (plural)” or even “ever since HER escape”??

Max’s whole attitude and emphasis throughout this episode suggests there was only ever one escape … So I feel I’m gonna have to fall back on the faulty pilot theory …

Apologies for thinking way too much about this and disappearing up my own arse!!

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Plus, later on, when Max is talking to Zack, she says Jondy has found it difficult to sleep (or something) “ever since the escape” … If Jondy or Zack had escaped at a separate times, wouldn’t it have been just as easy to say “ever since the escapes (plural)” or even “ever since HER escape”??

Small loophole possibly: Looking back on two, possibly even three escapes that might have happened within hours of eachother so many years ago may seem like 'one escape' to them...

Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 6:15 AM

not convinced, sorry...

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:33 AM

I took a shot

Chrisisall, trying desperatly to fill in plot holes...

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Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:43 PM

I don’t know where I came up with the ‘second escape’ scenario. All I can say is that it was a pretty widely accepted opinion among the Dark Angel fan base, at least while the episodes were airing. That could be because of two reasons: (1) somewhere there is a reference to it, or (2) it was presumptive.

Since an explicit reference doesn’t seem to be forthcoming, I’ll detail the presumption:

We know according to the pilot that Zack doesn’t escape with Max. We know that Zack does escape. And based on a comment Zack makes, we can assume that it was the same night. Even if we don’t accept that it was the same night, it seems likely that Zack has been free from Manticore for some time. Ergo, second escape probably later that night. While the quotes you cited can appear to suggest that there is only one escape, they are also sufficiently vague that they cannot rule out a second escape. (E.g. Saying that one did something "once before" is a figure of speech. It could mean that one has only done something literally once before, or it could simply imply that one has done something at least once before.)

Maybe the pilot was faulty, but whether by design or mistake, there does not seem to be a plot hole. So I accept the ‘second escape’ scenario. Personally, I think there are much bigger goofs to fry, such as when Max changes outfits instantaneously while riding her bike. That one was always fun.

Oh, he's so full of manure, that man! We could lay him in the dirt and grow another one just like him.
-- Ruby

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Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:16 PM

Just watched I And I Am A Camera again, damn, what a great ep.
Phil is my he-wo.

Bored liberal (not-so) rich white guy Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:42 PM

Yeah, I too watched it funnily enough and Pollo Loco ...

In which (just to add a nail in the coffin) Logan asks Max whether Ben is "one of the 12 that escaped WITH YOU" ...

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Monday, January 16, 2006 4:52 AM

Alright, fine. I give up. Are you happy? Do you know it was always my dream to believe in a second escape? All I ever wanted out of life was to love, to be loved and to be a banker and also for the second escape thing. Now, if you’ll excuse me. I think I need a tissue.

Oh, he's so full of manure, that man! We could lay him in the dirt and grow another one just like him.
-- Ruby

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Monday, January 16, 2006 5:03 AM

Oh no! Lawks a lummy (and other Victorian expressions of shock and/or horror)! Is pretty bad to know you've been instrumental in shattering a dream! Mea Culpa! But really, if said dream was only secondary in importance to "becoming a banker" I think you should possibly seek some kind of professional help!

Personally, if I had to go for the “dreams of my life” my job wouldn’t make the top 100!! Unless I give up this life of soliciting (hum! I mean being a lawyer, of course) and turn my attentions to the North face of the Eiger (or some such romantic and historic feat of daring do (or don’t)!) …

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Monday, January 16, 2006 5:17 AM

Well, I never even became a banker, so it couldn’t have been that important to me. I just have a flare for the dramatic.

If I were a banker, I would probably not be going to work today (seeing as how it’s Martin Luder da King day). But alas I don’t have a cushy job like the bankers and the government people. I actually have to work.

Oh, he's so full of manure, that man! We could lay him in the dirt and grow another one just like him.
-- Ruby

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Monday, January 16, 2006 5:29 AM

Wish we had things like Martin Luther King day here in Blighty - we hardly have any bank holidays!!! Not sure who we could celebrate though ... Cromwell day or some such ...

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Monday, January 16, 2006 9:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Yeah, I too watched it funnily enough and Pollo Loco ...

That's funny too, last night I watched Pollo Loco, and Hit A Sista Back!!
(I felt the need to cry a little)

Tonight it's Meow and ...And Jesus Brought A Casserole...
(Where are the tissues? Did the tissues just fly off my gorram table for no apparent reason?!)

Maxed-out Chrisisall

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Monday, January 16, 2006 11:21 PM

I couldn't wait - I watched most of Meow forwarding through the Lydecker bits and then the Logan/Max bits of and Jesus Brought a Casserole - I was feeling sappy .... Then I watched my region 1 version of Serenity which came in the post all the way from the USA –Hurrah!!

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Friday, January 20, 2006 6:31 AM

So...did you enjoy the R1 Serenity? (Like maybe you wouldn't...)

Just going through Harbour Lights last night...
It's strange, I'm starting to like DA series 2 almost as much as 1! How weird is that?
Maybe Alec is growing on me. He cracks me up every ep.

Second-season Chrisisall

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Friday, January 20, 2006 7:10 AM

I have a grudging respect for season 2 now and I KNOW it's all because of Alec!! Yum!

There is a new thing starting on TV over here called Supernatural which has the Alec actor starring - think I may just watch ...

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Friday, January 20, 2006 5:06 PM

I heard it's pretty good, but have not yet seen it...

Chrisisall524

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Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:07 AM

Just watched episode one - always a bit weak I think cos they spend so much time scene-setting. But here is my verdict:

Bloody scary but pretty good!!

If you like having the pants (english pants that is) scared off you - you'll love it!! Jensen A is basically playing the usual character -but he does it so well!!

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Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:54 AM