Looking back on Star Trek... by chrisisall

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Looking back on Star Trek...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, March 5, 2006 11:55
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Friday, March 3, 2006 5:07 PM

I never thought I'd say this, what with being the long-time Trek fan that I am, but now lookin' back at the movies, Star Trek TMP is the only one with the original characters that I still want to own.

*Khan had eighties big hair, and I'd take it as a kindness if they'd give us a special edition that fixes that, cgi style.

*Kirk's son dies a chump and needless death; Kirk vs. Crudge was lame.

*Nuclear wessles? Gimme a break. The screenplay was written on LDS.

*Spock has a brother? That wasn't logical.

*Phasers are able, it seems, to disintegrate pots, but not the mashed potatoes inside...

*Oh my...

These are just a few of the sticking points for me; there are many more.

I still dearly love the original series, and also TNG, but ST 2-7 are almost unwatchable to me now...

Any other Browncoat Trek fans have this problem?

Phaser on stun Chrisisall

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Friday, March 3, 2006 5:24 PM

CHRISISALL

Ooops! I posted the title of the thread before I wrote the thread itself! It's here now...

Non-sequeter Chrisisall

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Friday, March 3, 2006 5:43 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Well TMP is my favorite of the movies but I can't say I have any big hate-on for the later ones. Well V was a bit wicked stupid but it was entertainingly laughably so. Can't say I've made any great effort to watch any of the later films but I haven't gone out of my way to avoid them either. Of course Star Trek to me will always be TOS first and then other things second.

For the other series only the first season of TNG totally blew. DS9 has some good episodes and Voyager is easy on the eyes if nothing else. Enterprise, well it has a beagle. How can you bag on the beagles?

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, March 3, 2006 5:49 PM

AUSSAY

I actually think the Wrath of Khan was easilyt he best of the eariler films. It had a story from the original series, great performances and a good plot. It also had the super creepy 'worm in the ear' scene

For me the original was more about the special effects and well, personally I found the story boring

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Friday, March 3, 2006 5:59 PM

FOLLOWMAL

First of all, it's nice to see you, hadn't for a bit and hoped all was well.

And in answer to your question... YES!

I was already beginning to have serious problems viewing most of the Star Trek movies. Firefly/Serenity cinched it for me. Too many holes and some of the writing is poor. Sorry, but Joss, I'm afraid has spoiled me. I can't tolerate bad writing. And our crew goes so well together.. they fit. Sometimes on Star Trek there are ... well, there are hitches with the way they are written. Your example of Kirk's son being such a chump is a good one.

I never felt like what I was seeing was wrong on Firefly/Serenity ( even when it was! the doll in the bad guys arms in "Heart of Gold" being one). It felt innately right because I believed them, the characters.
Often on Star Trek, I'd enjoy it, but I'd be thinking... "Yea, whatever..."

And the big topper for me. I liked Star Trek. I love Firefly/Serenity.

Beammeup Diane

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:03 PM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by aussay:
I actually think the Wrath of Khan was easilyt he best of the eariler films.

Khan was certainly the easiest to watch. Lots of action, an easily identifiable villian, and a plot that doesn't require much thinking.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:05 PM

REGINAROADIE

I agree with the sentiment that the first STAR TREK movie was one of if not the best one of the whole series, since it was the only one that actually had Roddenberry's input into it, and that it didn't want to be a STAR WARS knock-off and was more in vein of 2001. That didn't start until WRATH OF KHAN. SEARCH FOR SPOCK was OK, but nothing to write home about. THE VOYAGE HOME I think still holds up very well. FINAL FRONTIER had a good concept behind it, but it was a doomed project from the start.

But UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, I think is the best of the TOS sequels. Worked as a compelling political thriller/allegory as well as a proper finale. To me, this is where the TREK franchise ended.

As for the TNG sequels, GENERATIONS had its moments, FIRST CONTACT I think I need to see again because I saw it when it first came out almost ten years ago, but I remember really liking it and people saying it was the best TNG sequel. INSURRECTION was blah, and I actually fell asleep during NEMESIS.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"I think one of the greatest things about modern America is the computerization of medical records. As a volunteer sheriff, I can look up anyone's psychiatric records and their surgical histories. Yeast infections. There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably...because we're down river...from that old bread factory."

Dwight - The Office - 209 - E-mail Surveillance

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:07 PM

MATTCOZ

Odd Trek movies suck, even ones are good, although that ended with Nemesis.

2: Kahn.. good
4: Whales.. good
6: Klingons.. good
8: Borg.. gooood

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
As for the TNG sequels, GENERATIONS had its moments, FIRST CONTACT I think I need to see again because I saw it when it first came out almost ten years ago, but I remember really liking it and people saying it was the best TNG sequel. INSURRECTION was blah, and I actually fell asleep during NEMESIS.

Ha! So did I. First Contact is by far my favorite Trek film, I suggest seeing it again.

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:11 PM

RIVER6213

Every time I mentioned Star trek The Motion Picture on other board/forums, a lot of people always hopped in and said that it stunk, but I liked it a lot. I saw it when it first came out, and yes, I was there with the Puget Sound, Star Trek Group, and all 30 of us were standing in line, in the rain, with our colorful Star Trek Uniforms. I cringe when I think back to those days, but it was fun at the time.

My Favorite Star trek Movies:
1. TMP
2. Wraith of Kahn

My favorite TNG Episode:
1. Yesterday's Enterprise

My favorite TOS are:
1.City on the Edge of Forever.
2.Mirror, Mirror
3.Balance of terror.
4.Let This Be Our Last Battlefield.

But after watching shows like Firefly and the new Battlestar Galactica, its hard to watch Star trek now.

River

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Friday, March 3, 2006 6:19 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
*Khan had eighties big hair, and I'd take it as a kindness if they'd give us a special edition that fixes that, cgi style.

*Nuclear wessles? Gimme a break. The screenplay was written on LDS.

The motion picture was good, no question, but these two were good too. I know that no one likes Star Trek IV, but it was my favorite of the whole lot. It brings back fond 80s memories. It spoke to a politics that I could get behind. And it helped to put the whole Star Trek universe in perspective. And I guess on a personal note, it was the last Star Trek that my mother and I watched together.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
*Phasers are able, it seems, to disintegrate pots, but not the mashed potatoes inside...

Mash potatoes have touched the Eye. As the Eye has the power to make us see it also can make your mash potatoes, your red mash potatoes, proof against the blood.

Another 80’s movie.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, March 3, 2006 7:16 PM

SHINEYSHINDIG

One thing to remember about TMP is that it was a breakthrough for fans, who have waited years and years for something, anything new and it was 10 years since it's cancellation... Sooo many fans and cons and written novels and wishes and dreams of seeing Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the crew, and ofcourse, the Enterprise soar again... (sound familiar folks???)
The first movie was, in my opinion, for the fans.. the drama shots, of the Enterprise in drydock, leaving drydock, yes all drawn out but aimed totally at the satisfaction of the trekkies... who didn't drool seeing the very first glimpse of the ship and that soaring flyby... ok.. maybe that was only me.
What I am getting at is, it was a work of labor, and yes, the story was rather weak (the director's cut is actually much better) but it was the catalyst that began jumpstarted the whole franchise from that point forward... Wrath of Kahn brought back the fun aspects from the TOS in the characters... The rest of the movies, well, again, they satisfyed most of the hard core fans...
I really don't think anyone can object that TNG almost became much larger than TOS ever was.. Well, debate all you want, we all have our own opinions.. if TOS had been given a chance back in the day (again, sound familiar??) it may have really blossomed beyond just the 79 eps. Firefly never had that chance and all we have are 14 eps and a BDM.. That BDM took the same sweat and efforts to come to life... Had Firefly had the luxury to have at least 4 seasons, it would surely have picked up in syndication.. no doubt about that..
Anyway, long winded here... I love my Trek.. it was my first love... though I have to admit that with Firefly, it took only moments to fall in love and obsessed... yes, love at first sight.
Ok, now I'm done!
Thanks for reading through my rambling!

...use of a swhat??

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Friday, March 3, 2006 8:00 PM

AUSSAY

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by aussay:
I actually think the Wrath of Khan was easilyt he best of the eariler films.

Khan was certainly the easiest to watch. Lots of action, an easily identifiable villian, and a plot that doesn't require much thinking.

I guess in a superfical sense you could say the movie was more entertaining. But personally I found it better due to the character interaction. Kirk is also shown as much more as an imperfect character, part of the reason I like Firefly so much is because Mal isnt perfect and makes mistakes.

It was also one of the least expensive films, and although more action oriented, it relied a lot less on special effects than TMP. It also has Spocks death, the Kobayashi Maru test and a great insight on Kirks, Spocks and McCoys realationship.

Also I like the fact Kirk and Khan never actually come face to face in the movie.

I guess thats why i prefer it over TMP, which basically had no character interaction and the sci-fi cliche of a powerful sentient machine

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:04 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by aussay:

It also has Spocks death, the Kobayashi Maru test and a great insight on Kirks, Spocks and McCoys realationship.

It also has Khan's eighties big hair, how do you do that poof and sweep back thing without hairspray? Did Khan have a cargo bay full of hairspray that I didn't notice? Or did Khan and his all-too-young crew stand facing the wind for an hour a day to create that effect? (I'm pushing it, I guess, as that's my only real beef with that flick...the rest is great).

Chrisisall, who saw ST2 in the theatre no less than twenty times...

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:11 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

Often on Star Trek, I'd enjoy it, but I'd be thinking... "Yea, whatever..."

And the big topper for me. I liked Star Trek. I love Firefly/Serenity.

Thanks for the concern, Diane, my computer did a meltdown (we suspect a cookie accidentally accepted from Piratenews was the cause; beware) and we just yesterday got a new one (thank you tax return!)

I still love Star Trek, but FF/S is like my family, my home. The Federation is a place I like to visit, though

.

Warp ten Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 6:45 AM

BITTERBIERCE

The first thing I thought when I saw Firefly was "I have been ruined for other sci-fi" and I swore I would never watch it again. I haven't, won't, and am now embarrassed for my younger self for liking it.

I didn't realize how hackneed the genre was until someone did it well. I was simply acclimated to the small pleasures that sci-fi wasn't set to standard fiction standards.

Damn Firefly. Now I can't enjoy anything except Aliens.

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 7:35 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by aussay:
I guess in a superfical sense you could say the movie was more entertaining. But personally I found it better due to the character interaction.

Funny I prefered the characterizations of TMP.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:53 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:

Funny I prefered the characterizations of TMP.

I'll go as far as to say Roddenberry, Foster and Wise created one of the best sci-fi movies ever, right up there with Blade Runner and Serenity.

Serious Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 5:46 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by aussay:
It was also one of the least expensive films, and although more action oriented, it relied a lot less on special effects than TMP.

It amazes me that it only cost $11mill to make. Even back in 1982, that was still not much at all.

I also have a special place in my heart for TMP. It was just incredible to see those beloved characters and that incredible ship on the big screen. A feeling that I was able reproduce a couple of decades later...

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Saturday, March 4, 2006 11:36 PM

ALGUS

Shineyshindig you hit it right on the money. The first movie is pretty dry but what it was trying to accomplish has to be remembered. How would you, as a fan, have reacted to seeing some of those shots after waiting for ten years to see that show return. It was a thing of beauty. The flyby of the Enterprise has got to be one of my favorite Trek moments as well. I've always tried to place myself in the position of trying to feel what that would have been like for a fan seeing that in the theatre and I think its given me much more respect for the first film.

Of course, my sense of humor got me a good way through the rest of them. Honestly, I can't make it through a sitting of Final Frontier without cracking up. Star Trek never was very good at carrying very lofty or philisophical themes into it. I never could buy into Roddenberry's socialist future. Still I loves my Trek even for all its faults. And I enjoyed Nemesis.

And sometimes it did things very VERY well, just not very consistantly IMO.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 11:55 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Algus:
I've always tried to place myself in the position of trying to feel what that would have been like for a fan seeing that in the theatre and I think its given me much more respect for the first film.

Well, I was one of those fans, and the first time I saw TMP in the theatre was just about as glorious as when I saw Serenity for the first time! It took my breath away.
Of course, WOT gave us the excitement we also craved, but TMP was easily the most thoughtful of the ST bunch, IMHO.

An the Enterprise is still the most magnificent ship ever designed!

Tiberious Chrisisall

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