Fracking Phenomenal by misbehaven

ITA!!! Gloves are off... America... look at yourself and decide what kind of country you are/want to be... debate is always good, and here is a chance to think about some big issues, under the guise of sci fi. a fine old tradition....

The show looks amazing.. and I cannot wait to see WHERE they take it.

Chindi... love my country.. fear my government..

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 8:11 AM

HOPERULES

I guess I'm alone. I hated it. There was not one human being or cylon, for that matter, that really I liked. I guess there were a few I felt sorry for. If the entire human race and the cylons were both distroyed, it would not be much of a loss to the universe. Heck, it might be a good thing.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 9:31 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Chindi:
ITA!!! Gloves are off... America... look at yourself and decide what kind of country you are/want to be... debate is always good, and here is a chance to think about some big issues, under the guise of sci fi. a fine old tradition....

The show looks amazing.. and I cannot wait to see WHERE they take it.

Chindi... love my country.. fear my government..

I think it was a miserable choice to intermix a FICTIONAL Sci-fi show into the very real events of today. It falsly equates the US to the cylons. Unfucking believable. Gloves are off? Like hell . The full frontal assault via propaganda are at play here, not coherent, reasonable and HONEST debate.

Sorry, but Commander Tigh is painted in a dispicable manner, supporting suicide murdering bombers. Zero justification for that on civilian populations. Ever. Period, end of discussion.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 5:07 PM

Auraptor.. the best thing of all for me, is if people talk about it.. then they think about it.. each person can some to their own decision and choice.. but debate and discussion are very good for a free society... that was meant to be my point tho I think I was not as articulate as I should have been.

Chindi

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 7:27 PM

ARCADIA

Agreed. It was amazing, quite possibly the best BSG episodes to date. The only storyline I didn't love immediately was the Starbuck storyline because I really, really, really (spoilering just in case people haven't seen)

Select to view spoiler:

wanted Kara to kill Casey already; I do no believe that that kid is from her ovary. And if it is, then the producers need to learn about this notion called time, and how the kid would be a year or so younger than she is, but, whatever...

But, listening to Ron Moore's podcast made me feel a lot better about that storyline. It wasn't spoilery, he just went into detail about the motivations in the final Starkbuck and Leoban scene, and I understood it better.

Speaking of the podcast, I highly recommend that you listen to it if you haven't yet. Ron goes on a lot about the development of the New Caprica storyline. What might be of interest to a lot of people is how it is not really about he Iraq war, so much as war in general. He said that they spent a lot of time discussing the French occupation during WW2*, and ever the America colonial days. It's educational.

I am such a commentary whore, though, so of course I would love it.

I really did love Tigh in the episode. Supporting suicide bombings? Horrible, horrible, horrible. But, in this situation, it could be their best hope of surviving. Tigh said it best himself:

Quote:
We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go, I'm surprised you didn't know that.

Between this and his undying faith that the Old Man is coming back... Tigh is a flawed son of a bitch, and that's why I love him.

I was really surprised to also find myself really like Baltar in this episode. Well, not really. I always enjoy him, because his character is always doing something interesting. And he's so self-serving that from his perspective its completely amoral, which just makes his character all the better. But today, he wasn't completely amoral. What would he have done if head-six hadn't appeared when she did? He was have died a fairly noble death, despite all his crimes. That, and his scene with Laura. "Look me in the eye!" And he had a point.

That's one thing I love about BSG. You never know who's on the good side or the bad side. Whenever there's a conflict I almost always side with Adama because, well, I just love the Old Man. I route for humans because I am human, but when you think about it... suicide bombing? It tears me up, thinking of it. And its not just because young men and women are strapping on bombs and going through with it. Think of what it does to the cylons. No, really. Remember "Downloaded"? When you live forever, the worst thing is dying. Sharon said in "Scar", "Dying's a painful and traumatic experience."

And She would know! Well, the other copy would, anyway. And, here's the insugencie, killing the organic cylons again and again. How is that for terrorism? Roslin's right when she writes about how sick it is for them to keep coming back, but how sick is it for them to be killed repeatedly?

Which makes me think of Starbuck and Leoben. Five times. Once a month, except one month where she killed him twice.

I fraking love this show.

I was really impressed by the preformance of Kate Vernon, who plays Ellen Tigh. She didn't have a big role, but she really delivered. Ellen made a bad choice. But she's doing them for Tigh, finally, for love. Its nice to see this, because he's loved her the entire time, to the point where it drives him to self-destruction. Its subtle, but you can really sense the change in her character in the last 1/2 hour of Lay Down Your Burdens and now these episodes from floozy, power-hungry wife to someone who... well, she's as flawed and amoral as ever, but the motivations are completely different. I really like it.

Also, loved all the miscommunications and parallels. Especially the scenes with Tyrol and Geata, and then Tyrol and Jammer. Love the parallel between Jammer and Duck. Wow. I guess its really the webisodes I'm talking about now, but... wow. Especially since they seemed so slow, but then it all really hits you here. Oh, Duck...

Also, kudos to Cally for being awesome! You think of her as so sweet, but she's fiesty. I really loved her in her reunion scene with Sharon. And, also, Sharon. Because, wow, what a reaction to meeting with your murderer, right?

And on that note, who gratifying was it to see Sharon AGATHON in uniform?

Which brings me to Adama. What can I say about Adam?

Nothing for now. I could keep going on, but this post is so long already, and I'm kind of getting sleepy. But yeah, fraking phenomenal. BSG is definatley my favorite show currently on the air.

* - orginally, I talked about the french revolution. oops. wrong french war. See where I said I was sleepy? But instead of sleeping I'm making a Tigh wallpaper for my desktop. :-) I love the quote above. We're evil men.

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 9:19 PM

WOW Arcadia.. I T A with everything you wrote... thanks for the detailed analysis.. it was fun to read. I have to catch the podcasts..

Chindi

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 9:40 PM

ARCADIA

I definately recommend the ron moore podcasts. Small warning: I remember hearing one thing and thinking, "ah! I didn't want to know that!" but, appearently it wasn't as spoilery as I thought, wahtever it was, since I can't remember it! :-)

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

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Saturday, October 7, 2006 11:15 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

I don't watch the show but I am so happy seeing Canadian actors getting the role of a lifetime. The man who plays Tigh has been in so many Canadian productions that when I saw he was playing the second in command I was shocked he got such a plum part. That and half the actors on there. Bout time they got into primetime. Kudo's to them.

And now back to the regualrly schedualed topic.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:01 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Sorry, but Commander Tigh is painted in a dispicable manner, supporting suicide murdering bombers. Zero justification for that on civilian populations. Ever. Period, end of discussion.

Adversly it is okay to drop laser guided high yeild explosives on civilians, even when there is no military target, because thats just collateral damage.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:22 AM

GRIZWALD

Interestingly, I see the politics exactly opposite to some of you, which is a good lesson to all of us: Enjoy the frakkin show, keep your politics to yourself.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 5:24 AM

CYBERSNARK

My main issue with suicide bombs is that they're a stupid and wasteful tactic. Blowing up your own guys is the worst thing that an insurgency can do --you need all the able-bodied fighters you can lay hands on. Tigh is fighting the wrong war; he's trying to demoralize an enemy that (a) can't be demoralized, and (b) enjoys total military superiority. Even if he manages to wipe out all the Cylons on the ground, there're how many Basestars in orbit? Plus, y'know, you can't kill the Cylons, 'cause they just resurrect themselves.

Meanwhile, the legitimate military targets are being ignored. It's been 3 months, and nothing's really been accomplished.

Those trucks the Cylons were using to round up their victims; why are they still functional? If they have explosives, why is the prison still standing? They should be bringing down buildings as fast as the Cylons can put 'em up. There must be surface-space traffic (the Cylons need fuel, if nothing else), has anyone tried "surrendering" to be taken aboard the Basestars? Exactly where is the local resurrection facility? If it's on the planet, that's a priority target. If it's in space, they should try to find coordinates to feed to the Old Man so he can take it out and make life easier on the ground. And how did we lose track of the launch keys? (Losing possession is one thing, but it should've been somebody's job to keep tabs on where they could be.)

I'm hoping Sharon and Gaeta manage to provide cooler heads; everyone else seems to be letting their emotions run away with their common sense --that's why they're losing.

(Everything I know about warfare I learned from Star Wars --fighting a space-based Rebellion against a vastly superior enemy is something I know.

)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 5:35 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Sorry, but Commander Tigh is painted in a dispicable manner, supporting suicide murdering bombers. Zero justification for that on civilian populations. Ever. Period, end of discussion.
Adversly it is okay to drop laser guided high yeild explosives on civilians, even when there is no military target, because thats just collateral damage.

I'd love to take up political discussions w/ you in RWED citizen, I really would. But this isn't the place,now is it ?

( and btw, those civilians aren't the intended TARGET , or else I would be equally upset. And be glad they're 'laser guided' ordinance or else there'd be far MORE collateral damage.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 5:39 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I don't watch the show but I am so happy seeing Canadian actors getting the role of a lifetime. The man who plays Tigh has been in so many Canadian productions that when I saw he was playing the second in command I was shocked he got such a plum part. That and half the actors on there. Bout time they got into primetime. Kudo's to them

Seems there's a ton of fine Canadian actors that are making their way into our t.v. screens. I gotta believe it's more than just good sci-fi they're showing up in too. Color me impressed! More of that is better.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 6:06 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd love to take up political discussions w/ you in RWED citizen, I really would. But this isn't the place,now is it ?

I was giving an alternate viewpoint to what you said. If this is neither the time nor the place why did you pipe up? Don't make me out to be the bad guy for daring to have an opinion.

Quote:
( and btw, those civilians aren't the intended TARGET , or else I would be equally upset. And be glad they're 'laser guided' ordinance or else there'd be far MORE collateral damage.

Actually they are in the attacks I was talking about, and a laser guided missile is far more destructive than someone with a bomb on their chest.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 8:24 AM

All the Canadian actors who are working on this show are great! It is good to get the chance to see such great actors in the lower 48...

I have a 14 year old niece who is really into this show.. and interestingly enough (as we discuss the show all the time) her FAVORITE characters are the Tighes.. I think it is exactly becuase they are soo flawed.. and the acting is so superb!

I personally agree that the conflicted characters are the more interesting (I know.. I have issues!! lol..)

Overall the show is well written, well acted and thought provoking.. isn't that what you want from a drama??? I do.

Sorry if the politics sometimes get in the way... but I reckon that is life too... but we perserve...

Chindi

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 9:21 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd love to take up political discussions w/ you in RWED citizen, I really would. But this isn't the place,now is it ?
I was giving an alternate viewpoint to what you said. If this is neither the time nor the place why did you pipe up? Don't make me out to be the bad guy for daring to have an opinion.
Quote:
( and btw, those civilians aren't the intended TARGET , or else I would be equally upset. And be glad they're 'laser guided' ordinance or else there'd be far MORE collateral damage.
Actually they are in the attacks I was talking about, and a laser guided missile is far more destructive than someone with a bomb on their chest.

It's comical to watch you try to reply. By all means, have the last word.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 9:28 AM

CITIZEN

Oh I wasn't aware you had decided that I was not allowed to speak. I won't respond to you again, I don't wish to engage in the normal flame war you attempt to illicit. I never attacked you, yet you openly denigrate me for having an alternate viewpoint.

You are a troll. I have no time for trolls.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 9:55 AM

HOPERULES

It is true that conflicted characters with issues make a show more interesting and believable. However, as I watched the show Friday night, I was expecting at least one character who could inspire me to believe that the humans (or the cylons) were worth saving. The only thing anyone on that show could inspire was the desire to slit one's wrists. Maybe they were not suicide bombings. Maybe they were just suicides.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 10:26 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Interestingly, I see the politics exactly opposite to some of you, which is a good lesson to all of us: Enjoy the frakkin show, keep your politics to yourself.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

I agree. I see it's political message completely opposite from what you guys are posting. How strange is that. Are the Cylons the religious fundamentalists trying to ram their idea of spirituality down mankind's throat with the threat of brutality and human extinction? Or are they the Super Power that occupies a people for the betterment of their civilization and all of man? Or both?

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 10:32 AM

KANEMAN

By the way.... I loved it. Am I the only one that giggles at the sight of "chubby" Lee?

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:03 AM

They really changed the dynamics and relationships. I'm afraid they are turning all the humans into dislikeable characters. If this becomes a political propaganda show it's going to loose viewers. Remember, bottom line it's suppose to be entertainment and the viewer needs to relate to someone.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:17 AM

I just didn't understand why they were kill each other (and themselves) when there are so few humans left. You think they would be trying to safeguard every remaining human.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:21 AM

Can't believe his dad called him a "fat ass." Too funny.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:28 AM

KANEMAN

It Really is a fine line. I hope they don't take it to far and get overtly political, if they haven't already, they do run the risk of alienating half of their viewers. That would be a huge mistake.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:46 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

I enjoyed it and love where they seem to be taking things. You can always count on them to competely frak with your head.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 11:47 AM

MYCROFTXXX

Getting back to the show for a moment... Did anyone else catch the reduced use of CGI in this episode? I saw a lot of reuse from previous episodes. In the past, this has been a sign that the budget for a series has been reduced. I could be wrong as they did have a lot of extras and new speaking parts on the show to make the New Caprica scenes believable and that costs money.

As far as the new season goes, I'm going to wait this one out as there are a lot of loaded storylines that have yet to be played out. Have to see where all of this goes.

I wonder if Jamie Bamber (Apollo) really had to put on that weight for the new season or is it a fat suit?

--

Given a choice between the earth-that-is and the 'verse-that-will-be I'll take the latter.

宁静

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 12:31 PM

It's a fat suit. A very good one. See the SciFi channel, it has a video of him getting into the outfit.

I didn't notice the lack of CGI so that's good. It means I'm focused on the story not the CGI.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 1:31 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I loved Tigh in this episode too. Tigh is one of the rational ones. He’s a realist, when most people are too terrified to do much more then stick their head in the sand and wish for the best. He understands what is at stake and he knows that hope is slim for survival. He’s the kind of person who knows that there is no perfect solution, and sometimes the only ethical solution is to set aside ethics and operate purely on the numbers. What can be done to create the best possible hope for escape? And given the desperate situation, everything is on the table. He’s the kind of guy the Jews would have been done well to have on their side in WWII. With that in mind, in becomes clear to me that when Tigh said this:

“We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go, I'm surprised you didn't know that.”

He was being sarcastic. He doesn’t really believe that they are evil men. He was responding to the criticisms against him, which seemed to suggest that there was some other choice that they had. That somehow their only hope was something other then the amazingly slim chance that Adama’s tinny fleet of ill-prepared ships will even be able to rescue them under the best of circumstances, much less if the Cylon’s are prepared.

He’s not operating on religious fanaticism and hatred like suicide bombers in the Middle East, he is operating purely on strict analytical military strategy. And in a world where Cylon’s have butchered almost the entire human race, he finds it humorous that people are offering him this highbrowed criticism, as if somehow there is some magical alternative. And surely he doesn’t believe that there is, and I can’t help but have at least some sympathy for his point of view.

That’s my take on things. The story might make me a liar. We’ll see. But I really think they need to get things moving quickly. Too much time spent on this planet will get way of track and I, like others, believe they might begin loosing their audience.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:06 PM

CHRISISALL

Just finished 2.5 on DVD, can't wait for S3...*sigh* another endless wait...
Shields up for spoilers, heh heh.
Last BSG post for a while

Zarrek Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:07 PM

I agree. If they stay on this planet it could really drag the show down.

NY/NJ/CT Browncoats: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly_nyc

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:58 PM

ARCADIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
He was being sarcastic. He doesn’t really believe that they are evil men. He was responding to the criticisms against him, which seemed to suggest that there was some other choice that they had.

I don't think we was being sarcastic, exactly. Even if he doesn't see himself as evil, and New Caprica certainly is not a paradise, there is a certain truth in what he said, and he knows it. They might not be evil men, but they are spreading devestation and destruction.

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

But I really think they need to get things moving quickly. Too much time spent on this planet will get way of track and I, like others, believe they might begin loosing their audience.

The next episode is called

Select to view spoiler:

"Exodus 1".

Followed by "Exodus 2" the week after. Ron Moore's been saying since the end of last season that they had no intention of being on the planet more than five episodes or so. It looks like they may be off by the end of episode four/beginning of five.

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 3:18 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Arcadia:
I don't think we was being sarcastic, exactly. Even if he doesn't see himself as evil, and New Caprica certainly is not a paradise, there is a certain truth in what he said, and he knows it. They might not be evil men, but they are spreading devestation and destruction.

Of course they are spreading devastation. His point was that this doesn’t make them evil men, because New Caprica is not paradise. It was completely ironic. I just don’t see any other interpretation.

Thanks for the heads up about the next episode. It’s certainly reassuring.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 3:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Arcadia:

Also, kudos to Cally for being awesome! You think of her as so sweet, but she's fiesty. I really loved her in her reunion scene with Sharon. And, also, Sharon. Because, wow, what a reaction to meeting with your murderer, right?

Sharon is my favorite character and I had to say that it will be amazing when they show more about how her character has progressed since "Downloaded". But that scene with Cally completely made me hate her all over again even after all of those scenes where I was like "Aw, Cally is so cute. She's so sweet!" And now I pretty much think she is a psycho bitch.

=================================================
I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 8:25 PM

Possible spoilers below.... abandon all hope...

The post above about the suidide bombers was interesting and got me thinking...

Select to view spoiler:

when all through the show, the count of the number of humans who remain, and the fret each episode about the loss of ANY ONE HUMAN is a key to the show... and that makes the idea of suicide bomber's troubling.. why would they risk losing any more humans.... is this evidence that they have given up? Am I overthinking??

Chindi

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Monday, October 9, 2006 7:44 AM

GRIZWALD

Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
And now I pretty much think she {Callie} a psycho bitch.

Well, she's a mother whose motherhood has been threatened, which makes most of us turn into psycho bitches, or worse.

Maria the Psycho Bitch Mom

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Monday, October 9, 2006 1:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Quote:
Originally posted by danniisupernova:
And now I pretty much think she {Callie} a psycho bitch.

Well, she's a mother whose motherhood has been threatened, which makes most of us turn into psycho bitches, or worse.

Maria the Psycho Bitch Mom

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

Well I get where you're coming from and that does make sense but I am kinda biased in Boomer's favor.

I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

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Monday, October 16, 2006 9:47 AM

BATTLESTARMINNESOTIA

Hey, long time reader first time poster

I gotta weigh in on the Colonel Tigh thing. He's always been one of my favs, just a totally commited soldier, not a thinker or a "big picture" guy. So consdering that quote about being "evil men" etc, consider these:

In the deleted scene (you can watch it at Sci-fi, called "War Stories" interestingly enough)You hear how badly the Cylons have scarred him. He will literally "kill" cylons with his bare hands if he had to. There is nothing he won't do. Nothing...when it comes to how much he hates cylons.

Think about how HE would react had he been in charge of an occupation. Think to the Guidian Incident while Adama was wounded. I'd be he'd be as hardline as the harder line Skin Jobs are.

And why is he so sure about Adama's routine? Because Tigh knows that Adama is the one man who can harness his ferocity and make him a very valuable XO. Without him Tigh loses his moral compass bearings. It's such a cool bit of writing and acting.

So I disagree w/the poster who thinks Tigh is all calculating. He's consumed by his rage and he's lost his controlling influence (Adama), but the fact he wants him back, tells us that he's not in fact "an Evil Man", but he sure as hell knows that he's close.

Sure as hell won't think of him as a dottering old drunk anymore tho 'eh? The guy is positivly SCARY.

Can't wait to hear some feedback

BSG32-Minnesotia

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Monday, October 16, 2006 9:48 AM

BATTLESTARMINNESOTIA

Ooops...typo

routine=return

BSG32-Minnesotia

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Monday, October 16, 2006 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BattlestarMinnesotia:
Hey, long time reader first time poster

I gotta weigh in on the Colonel Tigh thing. He's always been one of my favs, just a totally commited soldier, not a thinker or a "big picture" guy. So consdering that quote about being "evil men" etc, consider these:

In the deleted scene (you can watch it at Sci-fi, called "War Stories" interestingly enough)You hear how badly the Cylons have scarred him. He will literally "kill" cylons with his bare hands if he had to. There is nothing he won't do. Nothing...when it comes to how much he hates cylons.

Think about how HE would react had he been in charge of an occupation. Think to the Guidian Incident while Adama was wounded. I'd be he'd be as hardline as the harder line Skin Jobs are.

And why is he so sure about Adama's routine? Because Tigh knows that Adama is the one man who can harness his ferocity and make him a very valuable XO. Without him Tigh loses his moral compass bearings. It's such a cool bit of writing and acting.

So I disagree w/the poster who thinks Tigh is all calculating. He's consumed by his rage and he's lost his controlling influence (Adama), but the fact he wants him back, tells us that he's not in fact "an Evil Man", but he sure as hell knows that he's close.

Sure as hell won't think of him as a dottering old drunk anymore tho 'eh? The guy is positivly SCARY.

Can't wait to hear some feedback

BSG32-Minnesotia

I have to say your theory is viable. Tigh has lost an eye, a war (and now) his wife. I buy this whole rage idea.

================================================
I love the Castro, because if somebody grabs my ass, I know they're picking my pocket.

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Monday, October 16, 2006 2:19 PM

BATTLESTARMINNESOTIA

I know this is a Firefly board (gotten at least 5 people into the show BTW) but it seems like the posters are more thoughtful overall than the actual Sci-fi boards. Arguing continuity minutia is so dull to me. I mean, after Luke returns from the Death Star attack he leaps off his X-wing and gleefully cries "Carrie" to Leia and nobody really seemed to care all that much.

Anyway...

I was mulling about Tigh at work today (slow day--rainy here in MN)and some other thoughts came to me.

Remember in the Minseries when Laura Roslin is making the case for taking the fleet and running and she says,

"We need to get the HELL out of here and start having BABIES"

and Tigh goes,

"Is that an order??"

Its hilarious but watch the great way it's acted. I bet that Col. Tigh was actually wondering if it may actually be one, you know? He has to...just in case...clarify the point. Actually, if I recall Adama says something like,

"It just may come to that"

That's how committed he is to the chain of command. If (or when) the President or Adama says "Go make some babies" and they really mean it, well by Gods he is the XO and it is his job to make it happen.

When he's in charge and has nobody giving him orders he will have nothing to stop him from going all out Total War. And like the previous poster (sorry forgot who it was) he's lost his eye, his war, and his wife. His wordview is so narrow,(and he's so wounded and enraged now)he's just going to do anything at all until he himself is dead. In that deleted scene he has a line where he asks Adama,

Did you know Cylons have a stink? It's like old grease and machine oil" And he gets the willies around machinery now. Soldiers in wars have talked about the "stink" of thier enemies going way back. It helps to make it easier to kill them without mercy. It's a great line. I wish they could have kept that scene somehow.

So when he's adrift without a war on he drinks (like Ulysses S. Grant did, incicentally) But during the thick of the fight, like now, or in "33" he's in is element, however excessive he may go. In "33" he actually says,

"I haven't felt this alive in years"

to which Adama says, of course,

"Well, you sure don't look it"

I love the show. It's not as nuanced and perfectly crafted as Firefly--it seems like they have too much good writing and they are cutting and pasting a bit too much. It also lacks the ensemble feel of a small crew just trying to make a living in a cruel 'verse. But it's amazing how it can be so effective. Heads and shoulders above most crap on TV, especially Fox, of course. I mean, "The War at Home"? is in what, it's third season? Crikey...

So I'm glad BSG is still a great, viable show allowing great writers and actors to do thier thing.

Bit of a digression from the Tigh topic but thanks for reading.

BSG32-Minnesotia

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Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:17 PM