The Third HEROES thread by reginaroadie

Quote:
Still fuzzy on why his getting shot caused him to lose control of his power.

My take on that is that it is a panic reaction. Several of the Heroes throw their powers out in uncontrolled responses when their lives are threatened (Peter being a notable example). Perhaps the adrenaline rush caused him to lose control, just as a nonHero might have a flight-or-fight response to a threat.

Quote:
I don't think his telling the Haitian to "go deep" means he is having all memory of Claire removed

"Go deep" could also refer to going into deep cover, as when The Haitian takes Claire underground he'd better go so far that none of the resources of the agency can track them. I tend to think that would be an impossibility, especially as they have specials working with them, some voluntarily, some involuntarily.

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Wednesday, February 28, 2007 5:09 AM

And Stegasaurus, that is one phenomenal list! Did you find all those on your own? You are extremely detail-oriented if so.

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Wednesday, February 28, 2007 6:33 AM

STEGASAURUS

nah, I Wiki'ed it.

As for the "Go Deep" comment, he's used it on several occasions to tell the Haitian to remove memories. To me, it meant he wanted the Haitian to remove not only his recent memories, but likely the memory of his feelings towars Claire as well.

I get the feeling that while Matt is the only one so far that can read thoughts, it is probable that they have an empath or two on staff. Since Claire is now getting away, that will put Bennet under scrutiny, and he doesn't want the cabal to find out. Also, the Haitian will have to remmove memories of himself from Bennet's mind, as Bennet and Claire are the only ones who know he can speak.

Bennet's trying to cover their tracks. And thus far he's been working under the premise that he has no love for Claire in the eyes of the cabal. If for one second they think he truely loved her, his life would be forfeit, because they would be able to figure out the whole coverup.

Again, this is just my take on what we've seen thusfar. I'm excited and cannot wait to see how this will unfold.

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Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:11 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Bennett used the phrase “go deep” in this context when he had the Haitian wipe the mind of Brody, the dude who tried to rape Claire earlier in the season. In that situation, Brody was left with no memories of even himself; of course Bennett also qualified the statement with the phrase “take everything.”

So I’m not sure how much damage the Haitian did or was instructed to do. It could be that the Haitian really did wipe the last 15 years from Bennett’s mind or that he just took the last few months or years, but clearly it is and was intended to be a very considerable fraction of memory.

And now that Bennett true nature has been exposed, I’ll pontificate on my impressions of the character:

I don’t think that Bennett was thinking of protecting himself when he gave the Haitian the order. I think he was thinking of Claire and probably his wife and son. Bennett states that the reason he wants his memory erased is to eliminate anything that could lead them to Claire. Claire is the gravity that defines Bennett.

Bennett is really the most intriguing character, because he is so well rounded and not bound by hackneyed heroic notions of right and wrong. Contrary to what seems to be a common direction of thought with regard to Mr. Bennett, he is not a selfish or uncaring man. Yes, he has no problem with the “grey area,” but we’ve known that all along. Yet that doesn’t make someone a bad guy, nor does it preclude someone from being a good guy. In truth, most people, however much they may wish to deny it, would be willing to trudge through the “grey area” themselves. It is a consequence of the flawed world in which we live. But we shouldn't confuse a willingness to operate within a morally ambiguous system with being morally ambiguous. Bennett has never shown any confusion about his mission. Although it may appear grey to us, Bennett has a very clearly defined value system.

In the real world heroes and villains often walk the same fine line; what separate them ultimately are their intentions. The puritanical notion of good is strictly idealistic, and when taken to an extreme can manifest itself with quite sinister consequences. This has been Claire’s problem all along. She sees the world through the eyes of a 15 year old girl in shades of black and white, and that is why she misjudged her father. But he is very heroic – in that way that Mal is heroic, not superman. He is not always right, nor does he have any illusions about the consequences of his actions. But his intentions are defined by a selfless belief in what is right and he struggles with the conflict between doing what is right, understanding what is right and protecting those he loves. Sure you can find fictional heroes portrayed in a much grander and innocent fashion, but this is boring. What interests me is a hero who operates within the confines of a flawed world and suffers from his own failings, because this makes this hero more real.

I use superman as an example of the purely good hero, but even that is a figment of political correctness. In reality, superman from the early comic books fought villains with a degree of callousness that could easily be described as “grey area.” And of course batman, who would develop into a purely good hero, was certainly a very dark and morally questionable figure in the beginning, as were most comic book heroes. So ethically challenged behavior and heroism are not mutually exclusive.

Ultimately, whether Bennett continues to be a hero will depend on his future intentions. The villains are not clearly defined, as is often the case. Sylar is obviously villainous in an absolute sort of way, but the paper cabal for which Bennett also works is villainous in the context that it has been presented, though less well defined. Bennett is a hero, not because of his sympathetic nature, but because he fights against the villainous paper cabal. Granted, he doesn’t fight them in the tradition sense of direct opposition, but more like a double agent, although his reasons for the fight are personal, not strictly ethical. Now that we have seen what Bennett is made of, what happens from here? The thing that made Bennett a hero and not a villain was Claire, with that constraint gone, what direction will Bennett go now? Although it may seem palpable, what direction will Claire go now that she is uprooted from the stabilizing influences in her life?

Until now, both Claire and Bennett have been fairly predictable, but admittedly I’m at a loss to calculate the current arc. I think perhaps things might settle down a bit for the Bennett family, while the other arcs are explored, but eventually things will come back to this story line.

And when we learn more about the paper cabal will it continue to be villainous or will its intentions be exposed as heroic as well? Clearly, while some plots may seem predictable, the show is all about character and you apply stereotypes at your own risk.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:47 AM

I think the agency's goals are exactly what they say they are: to protect the world from the dangers that mutants represent (as so helpfully demonstrated by Sylar, Ted, Hana, and [recently] Peter). That's why they tag-and-release the mutants, and only lock up the dangerous ones --and why they're willing to allow mutants to work with them to a point. They're basically "mutant law enforcement." As long as you don't use your powers or rock the boat, they'll keep you under observation but they won't take you down.

They seem kinda like the STNJ in Witch Hunter Robin: they include "witches" and "seeds" (witches who haven't yet manifested an ability) among them, but the price of being on the inside is that you can never leave. You stay a Hunter until you either die or go rogue (and are hunted down in turn).

Keeping themselves secret prevents anyone from creating an organized resistance.

BTW, the trouble with the Haitian completely erasing Claire is that it would require erasing Lyle and Claire's mom (which I doubt Bennet would condone at this point), as well as Bennet's boss, Ted, and Matt (none of whom the Haitian had access to).

At this point, no one will deny that Bennet loves his daughter, but he'll still be expected to do the job, regardless of personal feelings.
They're obviously setting it up to look like Bennet was intercepted by the Haitian while in the process of getting rid of Claire. The Haitian surprised Bennet and either escaped with Claire or on his own after Claire was killed.

Only thing he'd need to get rid of is Bennet's awareness of the plan. Say, everything after the explosion at the house.

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Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:05 PM

Okay, you're all right. I just watched it again and the line is, "Go deep. Take anything that would lead them to her."

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Friday, March 2, 2007 4:15 AM

Great episode. Just wanted to say that again. Two little tidbits that I heard and saw that I think you guys might get a kick out of.

In Mondays upcoming episode with the reveal of Linderman, he'll be played by another geek friendly actor whose made a name for himself for playing villains past and present. I don't want to ruin it for those who don't listen to the 10th Wonder podcast, but those who have know who I'm talking about.

And second bit is this photo I found of Claire at the recent New York Comic-Con. Clearly the look on her face indicates that appearing at cons has something of a learning curve attached to it.

I know now that our BDH's are pros at these cons, but I wonder if they've ever felt like her. Maybe Jewel should give her some pointers.
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Friday, March 2, 2007 10:15 PM

SINGATE

She recently appeared on Late Night with Conan O'brien and talked about her interesting experiences at a convention. Particularly the segment of fandom that has trouble distinguishing between an actor and the character they play. Conan joked that she just alienated every fan of the show and would soon be killed off by the writers. She made a great recovery by saying that she was looking forward to other upcoming conventions that she would be attending.

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Saturday, March 3, 2007 11:25 AM

MADUKRAINIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
And even though Chris Eccleston only showed up in the last 30 seconds, he definitly made an entrance. I can't think of an invisible superhero. Or do you think he'll be a bad guy? Either way...

You know you're in geek paradise when Doctor Who and Mr. Sulu guest on your show.

Chris Eccleston's presence was the only reason I started watching the show (he's the best!), but it's turned out really well...I'm hooked! Not to mention that Eccleston's character kicks ass!

I believe there's a cloud for every silver lining.

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Monday, March 5, 2007 3:40 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

New graphic novel is up:

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/downloads/Heroes_novel_022.pdf

It goes into detail about how Claude and Bennett managed to find Claire when she was an infant. Also explains how the fire happened where everyone thought Claire's mom was killed.

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Monday, March 5, 2007 3:59 AM

Thanks babe!

*snif* That one got me weepy.

Mr. Grizwald watched the episode on iTunes because he missed the airing while traveling, and he said he cried at the end. It's a Daddy thing, definitely.

*corrected to parent thing since I cried too*

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Monday, March 5, 2007 9:30 PM

SINGATE

Some really great stuff in this episode. The reunion of Ando and Hiro was unexpected. Once again Ando steps up to prove Hiro's statement about not needing powers to be a hero. Having them teleport to future New York was interesting.

Speaking of New York everything appears to be coming to a head as most of the main players are showing up in town. The bit between Ms. Petrelli, Claire, and the Haitian was a complete surprise. I'm glad Simone wasn't brought back from the dead, not because I didn't like her but it would have been too convenient that she, Peter, and Isaac all had abilities. That female shapeshifter is pretty easy on the eyes, she needs more screentime in her natural form. Nice how she helped set Benett up, he still has a lot to pay for.

So Malcolm McDowell is Linderman. Not a bad casting choice. I thought I knew who it was from the previews but I was way off. A lot of people will probably will be upset with Nathan again, but really that deal was too good to pass up. At least he did one thing right finally knocking Niki on her ass. I'm not usually for a man striking a woman but in this case I'll make an exception.

Sylar vs. Peter round 2, it's about time. I was struck by how easily Sylar was able to keep Mohinder pinned to the ceiling while dealing with Peter. I knew his TK was strong but damn! Even though Peter has absorbed many abilities he doesn't appear to have the experience to deal with Sylar. If he does figure out how Peter's ability works he would be nigh unstoppable. I'm guessing Peter would heal if the top of his head were put back. Now we know where Peter got the scar. Glad to see Mohinder isn't the patsy a lot of people made him out to be. He went pretty hardcore there taunting Sylar while shoving a needle into his neck then pulling the trigger.

I get the feeling many of the characters are going to be dead by season's end. There was something on another website about next season being a completely different story with many new characters. If this is true I have to imagine that Peter and Sylar would not be returning because they are becomming too damn powerful. Even if Peter doensn't destroy New York I believe he will make a heroic sacrifice. As for Sylar I think his body will finally overload from all of the additions he has made either killing him or causing him become catatonic.

Another mini hiatus until April 23rd, could be worse but waiting still sucks.

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Monday, March 5, 2007 10:28 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Somehow, I thought Linderman was going to be Donald Sutherland. I knew it was a long shot, but it would have been cool.

Evidently, so did some other people:

“In the 2006-2007 TV series Heroes, Sutherland plays a role as the mysterious Mr. Linderman.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sutherland

So Nathan is now officially in cahoots with Linderman. And Claire is now in with the Petrelli family. Parkman is now in with the Paper Cartel. Bennett is now in deep fecal matter. Hiro is in the ruins of New York. Suresh is stapled to the ceiling and Peter is loosing his head.

I love this show.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 6:23 AM

STEGASAURUS

So yet again, my prediction was wrong....and that's why I love this show.

I do want to make one more prediction though...Linderman is actually Nathan's and Peter's daddy. Just my prediciton, will probably be wrong though.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:11 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

All this latest episode lacked was Micha being sent to the office for cheating on his math test - no one had a good day....

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 8:13 AM

I knew that Malcolm McDowall would be Linderman since I had heard it on the 10th Wonder Heroes podcast I normally listen to every week. But it was still a pleasant surprise to see him revealed not only as the villain, but also a villain who likes to cook as a hobby. For some reason, this character touch seems like something that the writers heard about in real life. Is there some famous billionaire who does this kind of thing in real life? I know Howard Hughes was always the first person to test out a new aircraft his company made. Don't know if Donald Trump likes to do stuff like that for himself. His ego is as big and inflated as a Macy's Tanksgiving Parade balloon.

But man, this fourth geek cameo just shows how much clout this show has for a first season show. Doctor Who, Sulu, Stan the Man and now Alex. Only way to top all that is to get Kurt Russell, Bill Shatner and Mark Hamill in the same scene in a Season 2 episode.

Yeah, the finale is going to be maybe the final showdown between Peter and Sylar. And if half the cast dies and in the next few seasons the cast becomes a revolving door of characters, I'm game. I'm pretty sure Claire won't die since she's indestructible. So long as Hiro and Ando are left standing, I'll be good.

Biggest loop thrown is the reveal that the "higher power" the Haitian answers to is Peter and Nathan's mom and that she's been some sort of fairy godmother for Claire.

And of course the best character interaction was with Hiro and "FLYING MAN!!!"

April 23rd can't come fast enough.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2007 2:32 PM

Finally have a chance to post (friggin' work schedule).

ANDO SAVES THE DAY!!!

That was awesome.

New comic: http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_023.shtml
Looks like we haven't seen the last of Wireless.

And the Easter Egg leads me here: http://www.samantha48616e61.com/ Wireless' personal site. A whole plethora of. . . interesting data.

http://www.activatingevolution.org/ Suresh's personal website.

And, for those keeping score: the Power tally:

PETER:
Flight (from Nathan)
Invisibility (from Claude)
Precognition (from Isaac)
Telepathy (from Matt)
Regeneration (from Claire)
Time-distortion (from Hiro)
Telekinesis (from Sylar)

SYLAR:
Mechanopathy (he "sees how things work")
Telekinesis
Super-hearing
Perfect recall
Ice
Melting (molecular disruption)

I think we saw Peter's "scared sh*tless" moment this week. Next week, his survival instinct is gonna trigger his powers, and we'll be seeing a Sylar/Pete beatdown.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 2:24 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Pretty good episode.

Claire sure pulled a fast one on the Haitian. Too bad she didn't figure he would be waiting for her in NYC. I was surprised to see that the Haitian is working w/ Nathan & Peter's mom. I am surprised how much she knows. Wonder if Nathan knows how much she knows. Has he been confiding in her? I would suspect if she has been protecting Claire I would guess she has been protecting Peter & Nathan as well. Could it be that Peter's father's suicide had something to do with him having an ability he couldn't handle? Guess Claire has a home and family now.

We know Peter doesn't die as he is in the future w/ Hiro. I imagine the scar is from his encounter w/ Sylar at the end when Sylar begins opening him up, as someone else mentioned above. Not doubt Peter's healing ability will counteract the wound. Got to say Sylar is not prepared to take on Peter. Pete has more powers and any that he doesn't have that Sylar uses Pete will be able to pick up. I also get the feeling that Peter's power level will be higher, almost as if he can amplify the powers he takes on. If he cuts loose, he will school Sylar. We have seen how quickly he is mastering invisibility. What else has he been practicing with? Should be a heck of a showdown.

Nathan is in bed with Linderman. Why do I get the feeling that Nathan will wind up being the tragic hero? He is selling out to Linderman for a political seat and a shot at the White House. I was surprised by his working w/ the FBI to bring Linderman down. Too bad the FBI decided to try to sting Linderman in his own hotel. Like Jessica said that was sloppy. Now their dead and Nathan is on his own. I just knew he would not pull the trigger though. I get the feeling that he will wind up dying to save NYC as some form of redemption for his selling out to Linderman. Anyone else think so?

Wonder how Nikki was able to break Jessica's hold on her. Good timing however she did it. Of course if anyone saw her go into suite the FBI were in she might be one of the FBI's most wanted. I imagine though that Linderman has one heck of a clean up crew and will cover for Jessica since she took out the FBI for him.

Does DL suspect her? Did you see his expression as he walked away after Jessica kissed his forehead. That stern, resolute look makes me think he knows Jessica, not Nikki, is in control. Micca may suspect too as he seemed able to tell over the phone when he & DL were on the run before.

The new hero that betrayed Bennett by portraying his wife has one heck of a power. She can take on the appearance of anyone. Very cool power. Not only that, but did you notice how she seemed to cloak Simone's dead body on the bed? She also seems to have a sadistic streak. Definitely going to be bad guy.

Bennett. Very neat twist on how his wife pretended to be mindwiped when she wasn't. His using her as a contact to guide him after he had been wiped was genius. It seemed to be paying off until the Doppleganger (cool name for the girl with the ability to appear as anyone) turned him over to the company. Of course we see in the latest graphic novel that he has Hanna ("Wireless") on the way to help. Bennett can sure use it. Let's hope she frees Matt so they can all escape to NYC for the big hero/family reunion at the season finale.

Glad to see Hiro get the sword, though I was worried when he was discovered. Ando to the rescue! Great to see them reunited. I am really starting to like Ando's character and his loyalty to Hiro is touching. Their teleporting through time and space to wind up in post-bomb New York was interesting. No doubt they will teleport to current time NYC to join up with the others. Maybe they might investigate bombed NYC to try to find some clues first.

Really loving this show. HATING the seven week wait until the next episode.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 2:43 AM

Yep, Ando is my hero, because his only ability is his loyalty to his friend.

Question: Why would Peter have a scar? Claire doesn't scar, she heals completely. Maybe Peter wanted this particular mark to show for some reason.

Comment: New Assistant's ability does not seem to be shape-shifting, rather the power of illusion, hence her ability to make people see an empty tumbled bed rather than a corpsified woman in a tumbled bed.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 4:09 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Next week [...] and we'll be seeing a Sylar/Pete beatdown.

"Next week" is in seven weeks.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 5:42 AM

Is it? I'd heard that there's one more ep before Rerun Hell.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 7:35 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

There’s no Heroes next week.

It’s a very special two hour Deal or No Deal.

But did anyone notice in the last Heroes that Nathan buttoned both the top and bottom button on his jacket? Evidently, Pasdar doesn’t know how to wear a suit. Bit of an oversight for an actor playing a politician.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 2:35 PM

WHOOPS

I started watching this after a mate told me about it. I watched it on SCI-FI UK and thought it was awsome i just hope they keep it this good and dont do so many seasons of it that they ruin it.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2007 10:09 PM

NONSTOP

If they have more episodes on par with the quality of "Company Man", then they should continue for awhile. I think the 2nd season won't disappoint, but they should end the series when it's time to.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 3:52 AM

I think it might be time for the Fourth HEROES thread.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NonStop:
If they have more episodes on par with the quality of "Company Man", then they should continue for awhile.

You seem to be assuming that quality has anything to do with cancellation.

We, of all people, should know better.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 4:34 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
But did anyone notice in the last Heroes that Nathan buttoned both the top and bottom button on his jacket? Evidently, Pasdar doesn’t know how to wear a suit. Bit of an oversight for an actor playing a politician.

Maybe he was cold.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 6:30 AM

I think the 4th HEROES thread will be up when it returns from its hiatus. No sense in starting a new thread when all we'll be doing for the next six weeks is spinning our tires.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:20 AM

I was just browsing around Mohinder's website and found this:

http://theories.activatingevolution.org/swiki/wiki/index.php/Enhanced_
vocification

Quote:
Enhanced Vocification is the extra-ordinary ability of accentuating utterances of the vocal chords to utilize a myriad variety of unpredictable results. This ability has also been known to gravitate beyond vocal chords to that of the written word as an extention of the spoken word. Many humans have suffered from the curse and burden of this extra-ordinary ability throughout the years, including but not limited to Will Rogers, Mark Twain, Laurie Anderson, J. R. "Bob" Dobbs, William S. Burroughs, Anne Sexton, Mark Mothersbaugh, Henry David Thoreau, Lenny Bruce, Ken Nordine, Benjamin Franklin, Emily Dickinson, and Joss Whedon. In the possession of those burdened with enhanced vocification, words can actually become almost tangible, dangerous weapons, or they can cleanse and heal.

Also, Mohinder may need to fire his webmaster. http://theories.activatingevolution.org/swiki/wiki/index.php/Crime-fig
hting_micro-ninjas

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:22 AM

I like how he has Whedon, Lenny Bruce and William S. Burroughs in the same group. Throw in George Carlin and Kevin Smith, you got yourself a party.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 9:28 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
http://theories.activatingevolution.org/swiki/wiki/index.php/Crime-fig
hting_micro-ninjas

I knew it all along!

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Thursday, March 8, 2007 1:58 PM