TiVo might be hurting Sci Fi shows. by Dataless

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

TiVo might be hurting Sci Fi shows.

POSTED BY: DATALESS
UPDATED: Friday, May 4, 2007 20:57
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Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:26 PM

A friend of mine was listening to Ron More podcast for BSG and he said that 60% of the shows viewers are using Tivos and that the Nelson rating board ignores Tivo users because they don't watch commercials. So that it why Sci Fi keeps saying that the 4th season of BSG might be the last.
It might also hurt Sci fi shows in general. I saw Firefly when it aired because I had a Tivo at the time but it could have hurt the ratings and got that canceled too.

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Monday, April 16, 2007 1:55 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Interesting. So Tivo recorded shows do not count on the ratings due to commercials being cut?

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Monday, April 16, 2007 1:56 AM

PATSRULE

I don't know how old the Ron Moore podcast is, but that information, while it used to be correct a while ago, is not correct now. Nielson now does keep track of Tivo use, and reports that as well as live use.

However, the statistic about 60 percent of sci-fi viewers using tivos is misleading. That doesn't mean that 60% are watching later, and thus skipping commercials. This season, Lost has the biggest audience that watches the show later, at 25%.

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Monday, April 16, 2007 1:58 AM

OZZYSUN

But when your recording a show wouldn't that show activity from the satellite box?
That doesn't really make alot of sense.

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Monday, April 16, 2007 2:16 AM

MAVOURNEEN

Quote:
Originally posted by patsrule:
I don't know how old the Ron Moore podcast is, but that information, while it used to be correct a while ago, is not correct now. Nielson now does keep track of Tivo use, and reports that as well as live use.

Thank you, Patsrule. You beat me to the punch. Tivo use is significantly tracked by both Nielson and all networks.

An anonymous record of program recording is downloaded to tivo every night when your box "phones home." Networks pay big bucks to tivo to get these numbers, just like Nielson numbers. As tivo becomes more and more prevelant, I predict those ratings will increase in importance.

Tivo isn't hurting sci-fi shows. There's a reason Skiffy shows BSG, Dresden, etc several times, especially overnight. It's for us tivo folks.

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Monday, April 16, 2007 4:18 AM

MSG

The tivo sends a signal to a mainframe whenever you select a show to record or season pass it. So tivo might be good because it's tracking everyone who selects the show not just the neilsen households...

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:16 AM

STORYMARK

Another thing to keep in mind is iTunes. BSG is pretty frequently downloaded there, and I don't think it counts toward the ratings.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 16, 2007 5:26 PM

DATALESS

The Nelsons might keep that info but, I think, they ignore it for ratings due to the face they that think you are time shifting (watching the shows later and skipping the ads.) The Nelsons rate shows for advertisers to decide which show to put their on and if they tell the advertisers put their ads on a T.V. show that all the viewers were using TiVo (presumably skipping the ads) they would be wasting their money. So that is why BSG might be canceled at the end of next season.

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Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:02 AM

PATSRULE

If BSG gets cancelled, it won't be because of low ratings. It is Sci-fi networks hightest rated and most visible show.

It is true that advertisers are wasting their money on DVR users, though. The television industry is going to have to come up with a new business model as DVRs become more prevalent. Everything about the tv industry is so antiquated. Product Placement and pop-up advertisements are two ways to get advertisement dollars for shows, but eventually, they will need to rethink the entire strategy, from Pilots, to ratings and early cancelations, to syndication, and so on. The TV production business is way behind the times.

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Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:06 AM

MAIII

SCI-FI channel's magazine had a similiar story a couple of issues back and it came of like dont blame us if we cancel you favorite show it is all tivo users fault. I am sorry but other than Firefly and maybe the Sopranos (cause I have people over) will I let a network schedule drive my life. Shows like Lost Heroes & 24 that give you so little each week and end with a cliffhanger beg to be watched in blocks not once a week. in fact I havent watched any of the second half of Lost yet. If a show is going to live or die by ad revenue and live viewings it just shows the networks lack of committment to the show and how outdated the broadcast model is. the networks need to come up with a new way to do business taking into account streaming episodes, Itunes downloads and other areas besides neilsen ratings.

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Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:07 AM

MAIII

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Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:54 AM

STORYMARK

What will likely happen is that, as viewership splinters more (with so many options), and no revenue coming in from ongoing shows (as opposed to say, DVD sales), shows will have to be made for less and less (without advertisers, no one is putting up the money out of the goodness of their hearts). Which means that SciFi will be the first TV genre to take the hit, since it's the most expensive, and have always been borderline fringe anyway.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:00 AM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by patsrule:
I don't know how old the Ron Moore podcast is, but that information, while it used to be correct a while ago, is not correct now. Nielson now does keep track of Tivo use, and reports that as well as live use.

Of course they do: They need to know how many it is so they can subtract it to get the real ratings. When its "too many" its time to cancel.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:40 AM

DATALESS

The ratings for the ep of SG-1 that we found out they were canceling it was "200" the ratings were 1.9 the episode before that was "Many Voices" and it got a 1.4. The season 3 finale of BSG was "Crossroads, Part 2" which aired 03/25/2007 got a 1.2. So if BSG is the best rated show on Sci Fi, why not keep SG-1? The reasons you keep a show around is ratings or critical review in hopes of getting ratings. If BSG doesn't get better ratings the show will be canceled at the end of the fourth season. It stinks. I have a TiVo and love it but this might be the price I pay for having it. I ignore most ads but some catch my eye and then watch them but I feel that is not enough. Hell, I even agree with the nielsen to ignore TiVo users they (myself included) are not helping advertisers their get their moneys worth to advertise on those shows.

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/manyvoices/episodes/s10/1006.shtml
http://www.vipertown.net/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=16&thread_id=18

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:10 AM

SINGATE

Do they really think people who don't record shows are actually sitting through commercials? I can't speak for everyone but that is when I start flipping channels or go get a drink. I honestly don't know that many folks who sit through an entire commercial break. If the decision makers truly believe recording shows is a reason to cancel them, then I have to agree that their mode of thinking is severely outdated.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:59 AM

STORYMARK

Sure, a lot of people leave the room, or surf durring commercials, but a lot don't. Certainly a lot more than those who record it.

And while yes, it may be an outdated business model, what else is there. Someone has to pay for the shows, and it is a business. I'd much rather watch a couple commercials between acts, than have them putting in more product placement, or on-screen pop-ups durring the show.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 11:57 AM

DATALESS

The thing about leaving the room to get a drink or go to the bathroom is that they still are being shown. Their might be more people in the room or they can still hear it from the fridge. With TiVo you can see the ads they go by to fast. So saying they make or lose the same money from TiVo users and live TV watchers (people without TiVo) is crazy. The TiVo is changing the broadcasters deal with TV. Thier model is outdated and they are trying (however badly) to deal with TiVo users. It will take time until they figure it out but it isn't going to be easy especially for Sci Fi viewers. I think that we have more TiVos than most people. I don't mean to cause trouble but that just the reality of this situation.

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Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:15 PM

FRANCO

Just to be accurate, the commercials are not cut it is just pretty easy to FF through them.

There is no way they can tell who does or does not watch the commercials and those who do FF are still subject to subliminal effects.

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Monday, April 23, 2007 7:20 AM

FRANCO

Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
The thing about leaving the room to get a drink or go to the bathroom is that they still are being shown. Their might be more people in the room or they can still hear it from the fridge. With TiVo you can see the ads they go by to fast. So saying they make or lose the same money from TiVo users and live TV watchers (people without TiVo) is crazy. The TiVo is changing the broadcasters deal with TV. Thier model is outdated and they are trying (however badly) to deal with TiVo users. It will take time until they figure it out but it isn't going to be easy especially for Sci Fi viewers. I think that we have more TiVos than most people. I don't mean to cause trouble but that just the reality of this situation.

It occurs to me that they could probably solve the problem by eliminating the jump back feature.

It would become almost as much of a pain finding your place as watching the ads. At least that would be true on high speed FF.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2007 4:03 AM

PATSRULE

Quote:
Originally posted by franco:
There is no way they can tell who does or does not watch the commercials and those who do FF are still subject to subliminal effects.

Thats false, they can tell who ff through commercials. They can tell how much you rewind at any point as well.

When the Janet Jackson incident occured during the superbowl (where the Patriots beat the Panthers, by the way!!!!), Tivo released information a few days later on how many people rewound and watched it again during the game. Those daily phone calls that your tivo makes does report every rewind, fastforward, pause, and program watched. They promise never to release your information individually, but they do have your individual viewing patterns.

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Friday, May 4, 2007 8:57 PM

FRANCO

Quote:
Thats false, they can tell who ff through commercials. They can tell how much you rewind at any point as well.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. TIVO is one fine piece of equipment compared to other DVRs I have used

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