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Originally posted by ecgordon:
I never responded to another comment you made about SGA, something about the characters, but what I had wanted to say at the time was, "Don't you mean caricatures?"

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

What is it you don't like Chris? I tend to agree with your taste, so I'm curious...

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
I rented disk one & I couldn't make it all the way through the second episode. It's turned into Battlestar Iraqtica as far as I can tell...and the whole 'Plan' seems to be unraveling as they go.
It's frakin' insulting, as Riddick might say.

Gimme SGAisall

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Sorry guys, but I just watched Exodus 1 & 2...ho hum.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's just dark for darkness' sake...at least for me...I like moral ambiguity, but not in EVERYBODY.
Gimme Luke Skywalker, Apollo from the original series, John Sheppard, heck, even Mal isn't so frakked-up...I need a reasonably pure anchor in the storm of gray...

Plus, it's just seeming a little weird...FAT LEE???

If you can get into it, great...like I say, I like Ballistic: Ecks VS Sever, so I'm no judge of guilty pleasures.

Biggest peeve though- WHERE ARE THE GORRAM VIPERS????????????

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Originally posted by DarkJester:


OK Chris, in my book you've given it a good try, and you don't like it - kudos to you for effort

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Sorry guys, but I just watched Exodus 1 & 2...ho hum.

It's all so frakkin convoluted for the sake of effect...

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Originally posted by ecgordon:

Chris, I usually enjoy your posts even when I don't agree with them, but I'm seriously beginning to question your analytical abilities.

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You're criticizing BSG for being convoluted, and yet you praise SGA, one of the most contrived SF shows ever produced, so full of technobabble it puts all the combined Trek shows to shame.

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Yes, it is a downer most of the time, but I can deal with that since in their world it literally is the end of the line that they are facing every day.

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Edward James Olmos on a potential ending for Galactica: Everybody dies. Olmos said this is a possibility if the writers stay true to form and he would be O.K. with that. Of course, the fans wouldn't be... Remember, April 4th at 10pm ET marks the return of Galactica.

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10. Actors are not happy

"Michael Hogan is still in denial [about Tigh]. He will not admit he's a Cylon. And as he's an actor, he's really pissed off." – Katee Mancow – 7/29/07, San Diego Comic Con eonline

9. Actors are still not happy

The actors playing Tigh, Chief Tylenol and the other newly revealed Cylons were pissed off, because they had spent so much time building up those characters, Mancow says. "You play for years making choices as a character and then feel those choices would have been different if you'd known." Tigh actor Michael Hogan still hasn't come to terms with the revelation, she said. 3/28/08 io9

8. The ending is "messy"

Some of the show's revelations late in the season will "ruffle some feathers." The show won't have a neat and happy ending, tied up with a bow. Instead, the show, and Starbuck, will have a messy ending, says Mancow. 3/28/08 io9

7. Everyone dies?

"Everybody's dying in season four, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ship was blown apart." - Edward James Olmos 3/24/08 io9

6. Another "shocking twist" looms

"Basically, if it’s true to form, no one makes it….I think that people would be shocked, and they'd be hurt, and they would be totally, totally frustrated," Edward James Olmos 3/28/08 scifiwire

5. Moore didn't have a plan

[Jamie] Bamber mentions in the above clip that even Ron Moore and the other writers had no clue what was going on with Starbuck coming back from the dead, until they started working on season four. – 3/24/08 io9

4. Moore still doesn't have a plan

Mancow says she's "no closer to having any questions answered from last season than I was." She's read the script for episode 15, and there's no resolution to how Starbuck came back from the dead, and what her trip to Earth meant. 3/28/08 io9

3. Moore is changing the non-plan

"[The writers' strike] gave us a chance to step back and say, 'Well, some of those things that we were going to do, maybe that's not the best way to go. Let's go back and change it again. Let's re-break some of the story. It gave us all a chance to really step back, take a breath and say, 'OK, is this really the way we want to do the last 10 or not?' And we changed some of those things on the fly." – Ron Moore 3/27/08 scifiwire

2. Moore's record of scorning fans

“All I know is that everything better track when all is finally revealed, because there’s nothing like a sci-fi fan scorned!” – Aaron Douglas 3/24/08, TV Guide (page 33)

And the Number 1 Reason Season 4 Is Going To Suck

Season 3
http://www.stallioncornell.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8274&sid=4ba5
91bdbba13f80025615b46255f111

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Originally posted by participant:
The Moist boys are on it

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10. Actors are not happy

"Michael Hogan is still in denial [about Tigh]. He will not admit he's a Cylon. And as he's an actor, he's really pissed off." – Katee Mancow – 7/29/07, San Diego Comic Con eonline

9. Actors are still not happy

The actors playing Tigh, Chief Tylenol and the other newly revealed Cylons were pissed off, because they had spent so much time building up those characters, Mancow says. "You play for years making choices as a character and then feel those choices would have been different if you'd known." Tigh actor Michael Hogan still hasn't come to terms with the revelation, she said. 3/28/08 io9

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Given that the characters didn't know, it seems like a silly complaint. Letting the actors shape the characters in such a way would be counter to the point.

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8. The ending is "messy"

Some of the show's revelations late in the season will "ruffle some feathers." The show won't have a neat and happy ending, tied up with a bow. Instead, the show, and Starbuck, will have a messy ending, says Mancow. 3/28/08 io9

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Good. I don't want everything tied in a neat little bow. It's been a dark, uncompromising story about genocide. Why should it wrap up with smiles?

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7. Everyone dies?

"Everybody's dying in season four, and I wouldn't be surprised if the ship was blown apart." - Edward James Olmos 3/24/08 io9

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They're ending the story. Makes total sense to me that they'd end up with high casualties, including the ship.

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6. Another "shocking twist" looms

"Basically, if it’s true to form, no one makes it….I think that people would be shocked, and they'd be hurt, and they would be totally, totally frustrated," Edward James Olmos 3/28/08 scifiwire

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Twists are good. Also note that he's just making a guess.

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5. Moore didn't have a plan

[Jamie] Bamber mentions in the above clip that even Ron Moore and the other writers had no clue what was going on with Starbuck coming back from the dead, until they started working on season four. – 3/24/08 io9

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Hmm, not according to Moore. I'll take his word over Bamber's.

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4. Moore still doesn't have a plan

Mancow says she's "no closer to having any questions answered from last season than I was." She's read the script for episode 15, and there's no resolution to how Starbuck came back from the dead, and what her trip to Earth meant. 3/28/08 io9

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Just because she doesn't know the plan, doesn't mean there isn't one. And since episode 15 isn't the end of the show, there's still time to address that story point.

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3. Moore is changing the non-plan

"[The writers' strike] gave us a chance to step back and say, 'Well, some of those things that we were going to do, maybe that's not the best way to go. Let's go back and change it again. Let's re-break some of the story. It gave us all a chance to really step back, take a breath and say, 'OK, is this really the way we want to do the last 10 or not?' And we changed some of those things on the fly." – Ron Moore 3/27/08 scifiwire

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Stories evolve. Every long-running show, even those with a tight plan, changed mid-stream. He had more time to think things over, and apparently came up with new ideas he liked. Should he ignore those ideas, so to comfort nay-sayers, at the cost of a better story?

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2. Moore's record of scorning fans

“All I know is that everything better track when all is finally revealed, because there’s nothing like a sci-fi fan scorned!” – Aaron Douglas 3/24/08, TV Guide (page 33)

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Uh, Moore has a track record of reaching out to, and communicating with fans, more than almost any other showrunner. A TV guide reporter warning against a fan backlash is not a "track record for scorn"...

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And the Number 1 Reason Season 4 Is Going To Suck

Season 3

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Which, while certainly devisive for some, was still well-regarded by many. And even those who didn't like it as much still referred to it as one of the best shows on TV.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hey Chris....

Forget that new Battlestar felgercarb!
Put in one of your original Battlestar discs, say the 2-parter "Greetings From Earth". Then you can sit back, relax and enjoy!

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

Here is my question. Is Season 3 worth buying? Or should I just rent?

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Between your perpetual trashing of this great show, and your chamioning of the mediocre dark Angel, I too am questioning your analytical skills, Chris.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Dark Angel makes BSG look like Space 1999, boo.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Amen, bro.

So far, the best BSG for me hasn't come close to
Dark Angel.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Be careful, Chris. You wouldn't want to say something you'll regret later. Your opinion should be an informed one, not something based on what you've read that someone else has said about the show.

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Originally posted by Calhoun:
Its just you Chrisisall...

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As for Dark Angel... I bought both seasons over a year ago after reading some of you rantings about it..

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I still havent finished season 2. Its not awful.. but it doesn't come close to BSG even Season 3 of BSG is far superior.

IMO

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Originally posted by Veteran:
The writers and producers of BSG are typical of the entertainment industry today, they're only creative to the point that they can take someone else's idea and play "what if" with it.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
More to pile on:
Why, if they HAD them on New Caprica, did they not STATION Cylon Centurians among them so they couldn't do secret stuff?
Cylons that okayed the nuking of the Colonies killing billions?
They have the ability to make themselves 'human'(as much as they desire, anyway) based on earlier genetic experimentation with live human subjects, but for some reason they NEED humans ALIVE NOW?!?!?!?!

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Dark Angel makes BSG look like Space 1999, boo.

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Originally posted by ImNotHere:

(* provided you draw a kindly veil over the science. Gerry Anderson never was at home to Messers Newton or Einstein - DO NOT hire him to fit windows to your moon base unless you want them to open outwards!)

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Originally posted by Veteran:
You're quite welcome, it's a specialty.

Can't say I've ever heard Nathan say he was Han Solo, I'll have to take your word for it. Frankly I don't see it, Han just doesn't come off near as dark as Mal. I've always felt the best model for Mal was Ethan Edwards from John Ford's The Searchers.

Aside from animated series what other Space-westerns have you seen? I've heard that Star Trek was pitched as "Wagon Train to the Stars" but never felt that comparison made any sense. "Hornblower in Space" I grok, fully ..."Wagon Train" not so much. I'll concede that Outland with Sean Connery was Highnoon in Space. But I'd be interested in other examples, they might be worth a watch or a read.

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Regarding your last point, everybody borrows. Shakespeare borrowed. Robert Heinlein makes fun of the borrowing process. Joss said he was inspired to create Firefly after reading a The Killer Angels. But, some of these 'remakes' like BSG and Starship Troopers go beyond inspiration. What's the point of taking the premise and the names and then making something so completely different that it runs against the core ideas of the original. It's like the authors of these things are out there trying to rewrite our memories. I don't like it.

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Originally posted by stinkingrose:
So unless the perky little mechanic is also a Cylon there's more than 1 cylon/human child floating around out there. Unless I misread the spoilers.

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You may not like it, that's your perrogotive - but a lot of us could care less.

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If they tell a good story, they're aces with me.

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Originally posted by ImNotHere:

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Originally posted by stinkingrose:
So unless the perky little mechanic is also a Cylon there's more than 1 cylon/human child floating around out there. Unless I misread the spoilers.

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I don't have an episode guide and a calendar to hand, but didn't she get raped by one of the convicts in an earlier show?

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Originally posted by Veteran:

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You may not like it, that's your perrogotive - but a lot of us could care less.

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And a lot of us do care. In the end, what can I say - they own the rights.

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If they tell a good story, they're aces with me.

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All in the eyes of the beholder. Inspite of my reservations about the character changes, they had me interested with the mini-series. But once the series started the episodes just went down hill and they lost me shortly into the 2nd season.

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